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Kenya Defence Force

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Post  MWAURA Mon Feb 20 2012, 22:42

ole Nkarei wrote:
fusebox wrote:
MWAURA wrote:Btw,somebody answer me this question. Exactly what purpose will those 5th generation su 33s serve? They're not enough in number to deter Egypt if the Nile issue ever goes hot; operating costs are too high for CAS in our 3rd world Mogadishu/S.Sudan type environment;how can they tactically interface with 50 year old armour on the ground.
What does a fighter bomber built to destroy other 100 mn$ 5th generation aircraft do here?
Comments?

Countries with a considerable lot at stake usually do not wait for shit to hit the fan in order to acquire potent weaponry.
Ante-up decisions are usually based on what intel outfits say - and most of what they say usually make sense - but none of it is for the common raia's eyes and ears!

On a slightly different note, do we still not have a snap of an eagle dressed in KAF roundel, fin flash & livery?
I saw some vids today but they weren't hi-res enough to make conclusive judgement.
Nevertheless, i still think the bright colored KAF roundel would'av stood out, unless ofcourse the KAF has adopted a low visibility one....considering the air superiority role of the bird.

@Mwaura- push out your Strategic-envelope beyond the present realities, factor in all possible politico-economic developments and resultant challenges in the expanded envelope, and what do you see? UPDF will operate a couple hundred of the T-80 by 2016 and upgrade + muscle out all her offensive facets within the same time-frame. Huge volumes of hydrocarbons will be flowing from Ethiopia, Somalia, GoSS, Kenya CAR, as well. You still have difficulties seeing how the Sukhois will fit into this part of the world?

@Fusebox - wacha hayo mambo ya picha za eagles, bana!! Bona, wewe Joo? The Eagles have no place is Somalia - Tigers II have 'point'. While AS gets a pasting, serious manenos are developing north of Kakuma.
You're right of course but to me its misallocation of resources bordering on the criminal. It would have made more sense to start an air force with some gunships or tactical ground attack aircraft or better yet a combi of both;not forgetting a cadre of support infrastructure. The 750 mn $ M7 used could've bought some 6 slightly used hinds and half squadron of su-25s that could've best performed the function of a true air force,supporting the infantry. He'd have had money left over to renovate the embarrassing 'mama ingia pole pole' mud huts his boys are forced to make do with.
That's what I'd have done!

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Post  MWAURA Mon Feb 20 2012, 22:58

Incidentally by 2016 if all goes according to plan we should be beyond t-72s operating t-90s or t-95s. Any info on any new KDF armour in the works? Toboa!

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Post  Guest Mon Feb 20 2012, 23:30

MWAURA wrote:Incidentally by 2016 if all goes according to plan we should be beyond t-72s operating t-90s or t-95s. Any info on any new KDF armour in the works? Toboa!

Wacha wewe, bana!! You want me against a hostile wall, mate? Haha!

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Post  Guest Mon Feb 20 2012, 23:54

MWAURA wrote:
The 750 mn $ M7 used could've bought some 6 slightly used hinds and half squadron of su-25s that could've best performed the function of a true air force,supporting the infantry. He'd have had money left over to renovate the embarrassing 'mama ingia pole pole' mud huts his boys are forced to make do with.
That's what I'd have done!

Boss wacha kujiaibisha.
Does the phrase "AIR SUPERIORITY" not compute for you?
The text in red should be replaced by "a true army" coz all the equipment you claim M7 shuld'av bought best serve under "nchi kavu".

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Post  cylon Tue Feb 21 2012, 03:26

rwigi wrote:@ cyclon

How long before you get your hands on a prototype?

And will it be of benefit to us(Kenyana) in the foreseeable future?

Well its gonna take a few years once the funding has been approved. Its gonna benefit kenyana by having a easier way to track planes and strength the military force from outside aggressions
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Post  Al Bashir Tue Feb 21 2012, 03:47

cylon wrote:
rwigi wrote:@ cyclon

How long before you get your hands on a prototype?

And will it be of benefit to us(Kenyana) in the foreseeable future?

Well its gonna take a few years once the funding has been approved. Its gonna benefit kenyana by having a easier way to track planes and strength the military force from outside aggressions


Not to trash your invention, but you have your hands full with this one.
I don't need you to spill the beans so to speak, but how do you intend to measure the CO/Co2 content emissions?

1) Current Co/Co2 testing technologies(Semiconductor,Biometric,Electrochemical)require a unit sample of air coming
into contact with the testing surface. Therefore these methods cannot be employed from an extended distance.
i.e you cannot have a ground based tester pointing to the sky. Infrared detection will also be hampered by the same limitation of distance.
Ground based spectrometers(such as those employed by NOAA) measure co/co2 content at a fixed point in time, therefore this will not
be suitable either.

2) How do you account for naturally occurring carbon streams that flow into/thru the atmosphere from factories, oceans, forests etc?
and how do you differentiate these natural streams from those emitted from a jet engine?

3) How does Co/Co2 behave as soon as its ejected from the exhaust i.e does it flow in a stream?,does it disperse immediately?,
does it mechanically bond with dust, water and other debris? is there a significant amount that can be accurately measured?

On another note, since 2006 NASA has been working on an experimental method of accurately testing Co/Co2 in the atmosphere. It employs a
a satellite like orbiting carbon observatory working in tandem with the existing land based spectrometer stations taking "snap shots",
and trending them over time. This is still a work in progress.

so simply put, the science does not yet exist to put your theory into practice.
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Post  Al Bashir Tue Feb 21 2012, 03:59

ole Nkarei wrote:
(GoSS will be forced to relinguish a substantial portion of Abyei’s Crude to Sudan, which might be a worthy price for control of both Kordofans and the Blue Nile. Dafur is too far north to find confluence with Kenyana, and her demographics akin to Chad – which appears to gravitate around the Arab Northern Block with Egypt. Sudan, greatly changed and weakened, must find comfort in the Arab Northern Block, or perish the way of Somalia – note the recent rejection of Sudan’s membership probe into the expanding EAC.)


Seems like your prediction is already playing out, the following is a partial excerpt from GoSS chief negotiator with the North:

The government of South Sudan announced Feb. 16 that Sudanese forces had three days earlier seized control over two oil blocks
in South Sudan's northeastern state of Upper Nile. Pagan Ammum, South Sudan's lead negotiator in ongoing talks between the
two countries, said he received a notice from the Petrodar consortium, a majority Malaysian-Chinese owned oil company,
that Sudan had ordered the company, "unilaterally and by force," to keep exporting oil to Sudan despite the South Sudanese
government's Jan. 22 order to shut down all oil production in the country.


Last edited by Al Bashir on Tue Feb 21 2012, 04:27; edited 1 time in total
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Post  cylon Tue Feb 21 2012, 04:25

Al Bashir wrote:
cylon wrote:
rwigi wrote:@ cyclon

How long before you get your hands on a prototype?

And will it be of benefit to us(Kenyana) in the foreseeable future?

Well its gonna take a few years once the funding has been approved. Its gonna benefit kenyana by having a easier way to track planes and strength the military force from outside aggressions


Not to trash your invention, but you have your hands full with this one.
I don't need you to spill the beans so to speak, but how do you intend to measure the CO/Co2 content emissions?

1) Current Co/Co2 testing technologies(Semiconductor,Biometric,Electrochemical)require a unit sample of air coming
into contact with the testing surface. Therefore these methods cannot be employed from an extended distance.
i.e you cannot have a ground based tester pointing to the sky. Infrared detection will also be hampered by the same limitation of distance.
Ground based spectrometers(such as those employed by NOAA) measure co/co2 content at a fixed point in time, therefore this will not
be suitable either.

2) How do you account for naturally occurring carbon streams that flow into/thru the atmosphere from factories, oceans, forests etc?
and how do you differentiate these natural streams from those emitted from a jet engine?

3) How does Co/Co2 behave as soon as its ejected from the exhaust i.e does it flow in a stream?,does it disperse immediately?,
does it mechanically bond with dust, water and other debris? is there a significant amount that can be accurately measured?

On another note, since 2006 NASA has been working on an experimental method of accurately testing Co/Co2 in the atmosphere. It employs a
a satellite like orbiting carbon observatory working in tandem with the existing land based spectrometer stations taking "snap shots",
and trending them over time. This is still a work in progress.

so simply put, the science does not yet exist to put your theory into practice.

Albashir i cannot answer your first question because i am not allowed to reveal that info but i tell i have already worked that solution out.

Look at the sky at very high altitudes you can see contrails from planes and if you started at them they would last for minutes at a time.( i just answered the third question) and they way you can tell the difference is jet fuel if you didn't know burns very distinctively and with this tech im working on there would be a little additive to identify all types of aircraft.

I know nasa has been working on a way to track co2 in the atmosphere but that is for environmental purposes my idea is coming from a militaristic point of view and i tell you satellites taking snapshots would be a waste of time there would be to many civilian aircraft's to tell the difference between the threat and friendly and satellites cant track stealth aircraft's which iran and china is making huge strides in an sammy is alarmed and they want a new way to track such aircrafts. Oh the science is they bashir its there but you see the world is not ready for such a step unless its needed there have been so many innovations that people dont even take notice on such achievements.
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Post  Al Bashir Tue Feb 21 2012, 06:29

cylon wrote:
and they way you can tell the difference is jet fuel if you didn't know burns very distinctively and with this tech im working on there would be a little additive to identify all types of aircraft.
.

Every combustible material including human flesh burns distinctively,
so I don't get your point. Your gadget will supposedly analyze
the carbon emissions. Last time I checked the co/co2 from burning wood
or hydrocarbons is structurally the same. And are you suggesting
that different engines leave distinct signature marks on the carbon
molecules? And how do you obtain the different samples to baseline your
gadget?


http://www.cgabusinessdesk.com/document/aviation_tech_review.pdf
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Post  Spartan Tue Feb 21 2012, 08:23

MWAURA wrote:You're right of course but to me its misallocation of resources bordering on the criminal. It would have made more sense to start an air force with some gunships or tactical ground attack aircraft or better yet a combi of both;not forgetting a cadre of support infrastructure. The 750 mn $ M7 used could've bought some 6 slightly used hinds and half squadron of su-25s that could've best performed the function of a true air force,supporting the infantry. He'd have had money left over to renovate the embarrassing 'mama ingia pole pole' mud huts his boys are forced to make do with.That's what I'd have done!

We have flogged this dead horse many times over, bro. Ethiopia and Eritrea operate SU-27s (the SU-30 is just a variation of the same) and as we all know, Eritrea is much poorer than Uganda. That money did not just buy the planes, it was the sum of a contract involving a lot of other stuff.

There are extensive renovations of military barracks countrywide and replacement of mama ingia poles (by the way, they are very cool during the day, lol..) not to mention billion dollar projects to construct dams, renovate hospitals, free secondary education, expansion of free university education (of which I am a beneficiary), renovation of referral hospitals, as well as a major project to revamp Kampala. What more do you want the government to do? We are a free market economy, not a communist country.

Just because you have to do all the above doesn't mean you should forget about how to defend yourself. You have to be able to walk while chewing gum, you know. Low lying fruits are easy pickings.

But thanks for your empathy for UPDF soldiers and ordinary Ugandans. Tangu lini?
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Post  Olekoima Tue Feb 21 2012, 09:02

An interesing article. Usual truths and half truths from the west. Ati KDF has received $3b in military aid from the US since September 2011 to bolster the war effort in Somalia? Really? Please read:-

http://www.defpro.com/news/details/32567/?SID=5aaf0744adf1083fdb4451b4eb165
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Post  Guest Tue Feb 21 2012, 09:11

Olekoima wrote:An interesing article. Usual truths and half truths from the west. Ati KDF has received $3b in military aid from the US since September 2011 to bolster the war effort in Somalia? Really? Please read:-

http://www.defpro.com/news/details/32567/?SID=5aaf0744adf1083fdb4451b4eb165

Correction, bro. The article speaks of 2001 September, not 2011 September. And that is the only factual thing in that shoddy piece of writing. It galls me to read such trash from people using high-sounding titles but who unfortunately are the only voices that are heard in such places. We must begin with seriousness and purpose to tell our own stories ourselves.

That is lump-sum figure, encompassing both Military, Civilian Police , and support to the Judicial processes development - over a ten year period, and hence not substantial in the sense the silly man David Throup pretends. MISRI has received direct-Military USD1Billlion each year from Sammy since the Yom Kippur War!!

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Post  cylon Tue Feb 21 2012, 09:43

Al Bashir wrote:
cylon wrote:
and they way you can tell the difference is jet fuel if you didn't know burns very distinctively and with this tech im working on there would be a little additive to identify all types of aircraft.
.

Every combustible material including human flesh burns distinctively,
so I don't get your point. Your gadget will supposedly analyze
the carbon emissions. Last time I checked the co/co2 from burning wood
or hydrocarbons is structurally the same. And are you suggesting
that different engines leave distinct signature marks on the carbon
molecules? And how do you obtain the different samples to baseline your
gadget?


http://www.cgabusinessdesk.com/document/aviation_tech_review.pdf

I had already solved these steps months ago like a said a secret additive will be added to the jet fuel. All types of planes from military and civilian will have a different signature,But you see the jet fuel will remain the same and nobody will notice a thing.
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Post  Guest Tue Feb 21 2012, 10:43

Ugandese tanks
Foef Yesterday at 23:47

There have been recent reports (2011) that 31 T-90S tanks are included in the deal for Su-30 aircraft from Russia. The tanks are reported to be delivered already in 2011, possibly as early as April 2011.
However, while I've seen the Su-30 in Uganda, I haven't seen any picture of the T-90 there, nor of such tanks delivered via Tanzania or Kenya. Has anyone actually seen a good report on the T-90 or better, pictures?


Spartan - a comment, soldier? Without compromising .....!

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Post  Olekoima Tue Feb 21 2012, 10:47

ole Nkarei wrote:
Olekoima wrote:An interesing article. Usual truths and half truths from the west. Ati KDF has received $3b in military aid from the US since September 2011 to bolster the war effort in Somalia? Really? Please read:-

http://www.defpro.com/news/details/32567/?SID=5aaf0744adf1083fdb4451b4eb165

Correction, bro. The article speaks of 2001 September, not 2011 September. And that is the only factual thing in that shoddy piece of writing. It galls me to read such trash from people using high-sounding titles but who unfortunately are the only voices that are heard in such places. We must begin with seriousness and purpose to tell our own stories ourselves.

That is lump-sum figure, encompassing both Military, Civilian Police , and support to the Judicial processes development - over a ten year period, and hence not substantial in the sense the silly man David Throup pretends. MISRI has received direct-Military USD1Billlion each year from Sammy since the Yom Kippur War!!

Yes, thanks for the correction bro. The article pissed me off too. These fellows keep recycling the same tired stories and they are believed. For instance, Kenyan force numbers have remained a constant 24,000 since 2002 according to them. Where do the recruits we train every year go? Also why do they keep thinking that we must contimue to procure our military arsenal from the west? A look at the acquisitions since 2002 seems to indicate a shift.
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Post  Olekoima Tue Feb 21 2012, 10:59

ole Nkarei wrote:Ugandese tanks
Foef Yesterday at 23:47

There have been recent reports (2011) that 31 T-90S tanks are included in the deal for Su-30 aircraft from Russia. The tanks are reported to be delivered already in 2011, possibly as early as April 2011.
However, while I've seen the Su-30 in Uganda, I haven't seen any picture of the T-90 there, nor of such tanks delivered via Tanzania or Kenya. Has anyone actually seen a good report on the T-90 or better, pictures?


Spartan - a comment, soldier? Without compromising .....!

Yes indeed. Here is a link to that story bro. Kenya and Uganda seem to have set the pace for an arms race in East Africa:-

http://indrus.in/articles/2012/02/15russia_to_export_t-90_tanks_to_turbulent_regions_14843.html
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Post  Olekoima Tue Feb 21 2012, 11:04

HOT TOPICS
Russia to export T-90 tanks to turbulent regions


February 15, 2012
RT.com
Russia is to supply Algeria and Turkmenistan with its latest model of T-90C tanks.





In total, Russia plans to sell 150 tanks at a cost of around $500 million – 30 to Turkmenistan and 120 to Algeria, a Russian military insider told Vedomosti.



The relevant contracts were drawn up in 2009 and 2010, when the Arab World was rocked by protests in Algeria's neighbors Egypt, Tunisia and Libya. Among other countries that received Russian tanks were India, Uganda and Kazakhstan.



In 2012, the volume of tanks sold to those countries is expected to grow seven-fold, permitting Russia to overtake China as the world's biggest tank exporter.



In March 2011, the Russian military's chief of staff slammed T-90 tanks as being of too poor quality for his country's army. He said that Russia would be better served spending the same amount of money on three German Leopard tanks for the price of one

Sorry the link is not behaving so i past this story here.
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Post  MWAURA Tue Feb 21 2012, 11:17

fusebox wrote:
MWAURA wrote:
The 750 mn $ M7 used could've bought some 6 slightly used hinds and half squadron of su-25s that could've best performed the function of a true air force,supporting the infantry. He'd have had money left over to renovate the embarrassing 'mama ingia pole pole' mud huts his boys are forced to make do with.
That's what I'd have done!

Boss wacha kujiaibisha.
Does the phrase "AIR SUPERIORITY" not compute for you?
The text in red should be replaced by "a true army" coz all the equipment you claim M7 shuld'av bought best serve under "nchi kavu".
You misunderstand me. Here is the reality of the UPDF and their existing threats:
Housing
Kenya Defence Force - Page 7 At-home-with-M7s-UPDF

Kenya Defence Force - Page 7 Ex2

This is a typical Karamjong village.
Kenya Defence Force - Page 7 LRA_sudan
This is the LRA who are now in the CAR,one of the worlds most forgotten places. Instead of improving the soldiers welfare does it make sense to go for air superiority? Do you imagine deploying Sues and their 20,000 $ PGMs against such 200 $ targets? Yes,every armed force needs air superiority aircraft,but the UPDF doesn't at this stage. Its like seeing a BMW 750il parked outside a kibera mud structure.

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Post  Guest Tue Feb 21 2012, 11:26

Olekoima wrote:HOT TOPICS
Russia to export T-90 tanks to turbulent regions


The relevant contracts were drawn up in 2009 and 2010, when the Arab World was rocked by protests in Algeria's neighbors Egypt, Tunisia and Libya. [u][color=red]Among other countries that received Russian tanks were [b]India, Uganda and Kazakhstan.


In March 2011, the Russian military's chief of staff slammed T-90 tanks as being of too poor quality for his country's army. He said that Russia would be better served spending the same amount of money on three German Leopard tanks for the price of one

Have been on this buzz for a while now. Dang! scratch Spartan and his switched-on Counter-Intel buddies are to be congratulated. Eh, Spartan - a comment, man?

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Post  Spartan Tue Feb 21 2012, 13:27

MWAURA wrote:Instead of improving the soldiers welfare does it make sense to go for air superiority? Do you imagine deploying Sues and their 20,000 $ PGMs against such 200 $ targets? Yes,every armed force needs air superiority aircraft,but the UPDF doesn't at this stage. Its like seeing a BMW 750il parked outside a kibera mud structure.

Buddy, you've made your point, UPDF doesn't need SU-30s. But they already have them, too naive of them not to ask your opinion. I might be wrong, but you don't sound like a soldier. You just sound like an armchair google expert, throwing figures about with reckless abandon. So the LRA are worth, did you say 200$? Explain to other forum members why the militaries of four countries are unable to defeat them. May be you might want to enlighten us on why the US is spending millions of dollars on its own soldiers in CAR and aid to UPDF to defeat this 200$ menace.

Would you care to provide a link to the settlement picture you posted, because I've done a preliminary investigation and determined its a Pokot settlement complete with thorn 'fence' and kraal in the middle. That and other images are found in this gallery (and of course there's no mention of UPDF in that gallery).

http://www.saferworld.org.uk/images/galleries/

But I will assume that was a minor slip on your part and that you wanted to show a forward UPDF detach (by the way some of them have grass thatched houses like the ones in the settlement Mwaura misleadingly provided). The UPDF doesn't have to build permanent structures to house forward bases within Uganda or in Southern Sudan or C.A.R. We don't have the resources and neither does any country in this region. That's why we've been able to wage war for decades while at the same time maintaining 6 - 8% GDP growth rates.

We are waiting for the link, complete with the story and that picture bro. I can see you are online, we don't have all day.

@ole Nkarei, I do not know the details in that package. Even if I did, I wouldn't be the first person to post the details online.
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Post  jasiri Tue Feb 21 2012, 13:58

MWAURA wrote:
fusebox wrote:
MWAURA wrote:
The 750 mn $ M7 used could've bought some 6 slightly used hinds and half squadron of su-25s that could've best performed the function of a true air force,supporting the infantry. He'd have had money left over to renovate the embarrassing 'mama ingia pole pole' mud huts his boys are forced to make do with.
That's what I'd have done!

Boss wacha kujiaibisha.
Does the phrase "AIR SUPERIORITY" not compute for you?
The text in red should be replaced by "a true army" coz all the equipment you claim M7 shuld'av bought best serve under "nchi kavu".
You misunderstand me. Here is the reality of the UPDF and their existing threats:
Housing
Kenya Defence Force - Page 7 At-home-with-M7s-UPDF

Kenya Defence Force - Page 7 Ex2

This is a typical Karamjong village.
Kenya Defence Force - Page 7 LRA_sudan
This is the LRA who are now in the CAR,one of the worlds most forgotten places. Instead of improving the soldiers welfare does it make sense to go for air superiority? Do you imagine deploying Sues and their 20,000 $ PGMs against such 200 $ targets? Yes,every armed force needs air superiority aircraft,but the UPDF doesn't at this stage. Its like seeing a BMW 750il parked outside a kibera mud structure.

Mwaura, are you an activist or a member of a 'humanitarian' agency? coz your post ooze the normal BS these NGO's feed us.
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Post  MWAURA Tue Feb 21 2012, 14:15

Spartan wrote:
MWAURA wrote:Instead of improving the soldiers welfare does it make sense to go for air superiority? Do you imagine deploying Sues and their 20,000 $ PGMs against such 200 $ targets? Yes,every armed force needs air superiority aircraft,but the UPDF doesn't at this stage. Its like seeing a BMW 750il parked outside a kibera mud structure.

Buddy, you've made your point, UPDF doesn't need SU-30s. But they already have them, too naive of them not to ask your opinion. I might be wrong, but you don't sound like a soldier. You just sound like an armchair google expert, throwing figures about with reckless abandon. So the LRA are worth, did you say 200$? Explain to other forum members why the militaries of four countries are unable to defeat them. May be you might want to enlighten us on why the US is spending millions of dollars on its own soldiers in CAR and aid to UPDF to defeat this 200$ menace.

Would you care to provide a link to the settlement picture you posted, because I've done a preliminary investigation and determined its a Pokot settlement complete with thorn 'fence' and kraal in the middle. That and other images are found in this gallery (and of course there's no mention of UPDF in that gallery).

http://www.saferworld.org.uk/images/galleries/

But I will assume that was a minor slip on your part and that you wanted to show a forward UPDF detach (by the way some of them have grass thatched houses like the ones in the settlement Mwaura misleadingly provided). The UPDF doesn't have to build permanent structures to house forward bases within Uganda or in Southern Sudan or C.A.R. We don't have the resources and neither does any country in this region. That's why we've been able to wage war for decades while at the same time maintaining 6 - 8% GDP growth rates.

We are waiting for the link, complete with the story and that picture bro. I can see you are online, we don't have all day.

@ole Nkarei, I do not know the details in that package. Even if I did, I wouldn't be the first person to post the details online.
Dude,look at that mud hut in that village. It appears to be occupied by the LRA and is thus a legitimate target for an airstrike.I doubt there's a washing machine or hidef flatscreen, or multi million dollar patriot/buk/tor/ sam sites ,the su 30s series,primary ground target in there. What is your estimate for the total value of all movables therein? Fyi, I have been to Karamoja;was there in 02 when some UPDF killed Fr.O'Toole,remember that day? That's their kind of kraal. I have my own opinion why you haven't been able to defeat the LRA,but I'd rather hear yours.
I remember asking ole Nkarei last night about a replacement for the Vickers 3,t-72s now in service.The issue seems more urgent now but there is a deterrent in the KDF. Look at the CRAZY ARMOUR TESTS ON THE MI 28!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Fj9hdmEeBY
7.62 MM AP,14.7 MM,12.7 MM with the pilot in the cockpit!! The Anglosaxons wouldn't
do that.

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Post  MWAURA Tue Feb 21 2012, 14:25

jasiri wrote:
MWAURA wrote:
fusebox wrote:
MWAURA wrote:
The 750 mn $ M7 used could've bought some 6 slightly used hinds and half squadron of su-25s that could've best performed the function of a true air force,supporting the infantry. He'd have had money left over to renovate the embarrassing 'mama ingia pole pole' mud huts his boys are forced to make do with.
That's what I'd have done!

Boss wacha kujiaibisha.
Does the phrase "AIR SUPERIORITY" not compute for you?
The text in red should be replaced by "a true army" coz all the equipment you claim M7 shuld'av bought best serve under "nchi kavu".
You misunderstand me. Here is the reality of the UPDF and their existing threats:
Housing
Kenya Defence Force - Page 7 At-home-with-M7s-UPDF

Kenya Defence Force - Page 7 Ex2

This is a typical Karamjong village.
Kenya Defence Force - Page 7 LRA_sudan
This is the LRA who are now in the CAR,one of the worlds most forgotten places. Instead of improving the soldiers welfare does it make sense to go for air superiority? Do you imagine deploying Sues and their 20,000 $ PGMs against such 200 $ targets? Yes,every armed force needs air superiority aircraft,but the UPDF doesn't at this stage. Its like seeing a BMW 750il parked outside a kibera mud structure.

Mwaura, are you an activist or a member of a 'humanitarian' agency? coz your post ooze the normal BS these NGO's feed us.
G-A-S-P! REALLLLYYY!! Please elaborate how I sound like professional clowns and comedians? Whenever I hear them I laugh.

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Post  Olekoima Tue Feb 21 2012, 15:54

@Mwaura, your line of argument about the UPDF is becoming a little boring i must admit. It is too late in the day to lament about the SU-30 acquisitions by UG because as Spartan correctly observes above, they are already in the ground. What is more, poor Eritrea has them too. So what is your beef? Housing? Now that is laughable. You want them to put up decent barracks in the jungle?

Uganda appears to be in the process of modernizing her military so as to best respond to the challenges that might face them. This is commendable. In addition to the Sukhois, rumors are that they are also going for T-90 tanks amongst other modern weapons. Being a third world country, they may not be able to address everything in one go hence the dilapidated state of some military barracks. With time, i believe these will be addressed too.
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Post  Olekoima Tue Feb 21 2012, 17:11

Looks like Uganda will be getting 100 units of the T-90s after all.

http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product889.html

Hey where are you Flying Crane? Isn't this supposed to excite a bit:lol:
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Post  Guest Tue Feb 21 2012, 17:17

Olekoima wrote:

Uganda appears to be in the process of modernizing her military so as to best respond to the challenges that might face them. This is commendable. In addition to the Sukhois, rumors are that they are also going for T-90 tanks amongst other modern weapons..

Indeed the Sukhois are a realities regardless of correctness of their procurement. Have read similar reactions from Johnny, Brass in some of our neighbors, arm-chair analysts, external civil groupings, when the Tigers were first painted in KAF livery thirty-something years ago. UPDF-AF / Kenyana will find use for them, of that I am certain. But Mwaura's line of interrogating this is appropriate, necessary and correct, even if only to inform decision-making going forth.

As concerns some ugly, mean-looking T-90's lurking in Kenyana - I will eat my boots bila kachumbari na sukuma, by gawd!! Right after morning run!! @Spartan, understood you loudly, buddy!

@Mwaura - little difference between the export variant of the T-90 and the T-72AVs in terms of speed /range / maneuverability, combat capabilities, surviveability in combat, armament, the one is three times the cost of the other, though; the 200-something T-72AV in KDF are absolutely lethal in combination with the 50Air-Cal.

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Post  Olekoima Tue Feb 21 2012, 17:32

ole Nkarei wrote:[

@Mwaura - little difference between the export variant of the T-90 and the T-72AVs in terms of speed /range / maneuverability, combat capabilities, surviveability in combat, armament, the one is three times the cost of the other, though; the 200-something T-72AV in KDF are absolutely lethal in combination with the 50Air-Cal.

Meaning there is no immediate need to upgrade in the advent of the T-90s next door? Will the T-72s be that adequate? Or did i misunderstand you?
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Post  Spartan Tue Feb 21 2012, 18:27

@ Mwaura, the link please. Don't say much, only the link or you will never be taken seriously again. Stop making stuff up. Your reputation within these pages is at risk.

@ole Nkarei, I know a trick the NRA used in the bush to soften hides till they could be soft enough to be eaten. Mind if I share? Lol.....
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Post  Guest Tue Feb 21 2012, 19:18

Olekoima wrote:
ole Nkarei wrote:[

@Mwaura - little difference between the export variant of the T-90 and the T-72AVs in terms of speed /range / maneuverability, combat capabilities, surviveability in combat, armament, the one is three times the cost of the other, though; the 200-something T-72AV in KDF are absolutely lethal in combination with the 50Air-Cal.

Meaning there is no immediate need to upgrade in the advent of the T-90s next door? Will the T-72s be that adequate? Or did i misunderstand you?

The Russian Army and Naval Armored Corps individually don't think much of the T-90 as replacement for its T-72s and T-80s, tis why the Manufacturer is desperately flogging it to the 3rd world.

@Spartan - I reckon I too know that trick. But I am certain i will not need to, man!! Call me out, if you want.... Smile

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Post  Guest Tue Feb 21 2012, 20:03

Ultimately, not such a bad thing at all. Mutual circumspection notwithstanding, all this hardware will end up in the same Kenyana arsenal (or Ugandana, dear Brother Spartan, same thing), serving a common purpose.
(Aside: OK, call it bias, but Kenyana really sounds better).
I do not think we are all that far away from this goal. Our competitiveness - call it sibling rivalry - is a good thing. It is the life-force of progress and evolution. We may be at different stages of adolescence but we are all yet growing up. And we are all at the threshold of a generational change. If we can complement this change with a judicious and equitable doctrine, as opposed to the currently prevalent trend of recycling the Ancien Régime in youthful wrapping (to preserve and safeguard the very same), then we're on our way to the stars.
But therein lies the challenge. Each commonwealth must individually foment and engineer the social changes that are necessary to propel this metamorphosis. And, irrefutably, social change is imperative.
If we truly mean to consummate the Kenyana we eulogise above, change must come from within.

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