REGIONAL DISCUSSIONS:

Random pictures

VICE CGS VISITS HIS FORMER OFFICE

from right to left MAJ GEN MUKALA NAVY.CDR, FORMER NAVY.CDR now VICE CGS LT.GEN MWATHETHE & BASE CDR BRIG.WAWERU


THE VICE CGS LT.GEN MWATHETHE PLANTS A Commemoration TREE.

Lieutenant General Mwathethe Inspects a quarter guard commanded by Capt. Joan Osweto (Miss).

LINDA INCHI



MATCH TO AFMADOE Squad assault weapon (S.A.W) M240 Bravo


CARL GUSTAV M3CG multi-role recoilless rifle AND M240B GPMG NEST

Liberation match afmadoe
OTT Puma M26 Mine Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAP) CAT.1 for urban operations.

FINAL CHECK FOR AIRBORNE ASSUALT F.O.B LIBOI



105MM L118 FIELD GUN BY THE SABA SABA

the two presidents have signed the pact to clean Eastern DRC of combatants. For Kenyana this means a creation of a new theater that will see sending more standby forces from AU.

Spartan wrote:I am going to restrict my post to tanks today. I've not seen any Kenyan Vickers in Somalia. @ ole Nkarei? Are they there or were they considered surplus to requirements?

In the UK, a former serviceman stirred up a storm by saying that the army has only 200 tanks meaning that it has more generals than tanks, Challenger tanks, that is. MoD swiftly called him out as way off the mark. They gave the not-so-reassuring figure of 337 tanks, 100 of which are operational while the rest are kept in a 'state of readiness'. The Brits must really have a lot of faith in their tanks to maintain an inventory of just 337!

Meanwhile in Syria, a possible game changer. The rebels have of late upped their tank-killing abilities, as the pictures below show;

First, three tanks come within range and one apparently runs over what appears like an anti-tank mine.


Then the tank on the left is hit by what should be an anti-tank missile.


When the first hit doesn't get the job done, a second one is launched. Man, it's bad when your mother can't recognise her son!

Talking of tanks, isn't anyone interested in the surplus US M1A1 tanks especially the ones coming out of Iraq? The Americans are struggling with storage problems and would not mind disposing these to some friendly countries. Moroccans are even getting some for free together with years worth of spare parts. What about East Africa? I thought these would be better than the T-72s that are now becoming quite popular around here.

A T-72 tank



Vs

The M1A1 tank



Can you compare? One will completely dwarf the other.

Olekoima wrote:

Spartan wrote:I am going to restrict my post to tanks today. I've not seen any Kenyan Vickers in Somalia. @ ole Nkarei? Are they there or were they considered surplus to requirements?

In the UK, a former serviceman stirred up a storm by saying that the army has only 200 tanks meaning that it has more generals than tanks, Challenger tanks, that is. MoD swiftly called him out as way off the mark. They gave the not-so-reassuring figure of 337 tanks, 100 of which are operational while the rest are kept in a 'state of readiness'. The Brits must really have a lot of faith in their tanks to maintain an inventory of just 337!

Meanwhile in Syria, a possible game changer. The rebels have of late upped their tank-killing abilities, as the pictures below show;

First, three tanks come within range and one apparently runs over what appears like an anti-tank mine.


Then the tank on the left is hit by what should be an anti-tank missile.


When the first hit doesn't get the job done, a second one is launched. Man, it's bad when your mother can't recognise her son!

Talking of tanks, isn't anyone interested in the surplus US M1A1 tanks especially the ones coming out of Iraq? The Americans are struggling with storage problems and would not mind disposing these to some friendly countries. Moroccans are even getting some for free together with years worth of spare parts. What about East Africa? I thought these would be better than the T-72s that are now becoming quite popular around here.

http://www.armyrecognition.com/june_2012_new_army_military_defence_industry_uk/morocco_has_requested_a_possible_enhancement_and_refurbishment_of_200_m1a1_abrams_tanks_2006123.html

Hey, i forgot the Russian T-90. I should mention it too now that the Ugandans have it. How is it likely to fare against the Abrams?



Here it is. The monster.

The T-90



The T-72



The T-62



The T-55



Type-59 tank



The Vickers Mk3 tank



Please rate these tanks. Let's see which one is the most efficient and lethal.

Olekoima wrote:Hey, i forgot the Russian T-90. I should mention it too now that the Ugandans have it. How is it likely to fare against the Abrams?



Here it is. The monster.

I would put my money on the Abrams, especially the M12. It's heavier, faster, has better systems allowing it faster and more accurate shots. More importantly, it has seen battle. The E.A MBTs below are, in my opinion, roughly equal in capability with the exception of the T-90 which is considered 3rd gen. In tank warfare, the size of the gun (better kill rate) and weight of the tank (better defences) matter even before you put into consideration other systems and gadgets. So, this is my take;

MBT GUN RANGE WEIGHT LOADER
T-90 125mm 650km 47 TONS AUTO
T-72 125MM 460KM 41 TONS MANUAL
T-62 115MM 450KM 42 TONS MANUAL
Vickers 105mm 650km 37 TONS MANUAL
Type-59 105mm 400km 36 TONS MANUAL

Spartan wrote:

Olekoima wrote:Hey, i forgot the Russian T-90. I should mention it too now that the Ugandans have it. How is it likely to fare against the Abrams?



Here it is. The monster.

I would put my money on the Abrams, especially the M12. It's heavier, faster, has better systems allowing it faster and more accurate shots. More importantly, it has seen battle. The E.A MBTs below are, in my opinion, roughly equal in capability with the exception of the T-90 which is considered 3rd gen. In tank warfare, the size of the gun (better kill rate) and weight of the tank (better defences) matter even before you put into consideration other systems and gadgets. So, this is my take;

MBT GUN RANGE WEIGHT LOADER
T-90 125mm 650km 47 TONS AUTO
T-72 125MM 460KM 41 TONS MANUAL
T-62 115MM 450KM 42 TONS MANUAL
Vickers 105mm 650km 37 TONS MANUAL
Type-59 105mm 400km 36 TONS MANUAL

Well, i agree with you here. The T-90 is in a class of its own as compared to the rest. However, i didn't think that the weight of the vehicle was a factor. Why are some countries moving towards making lighter vehicles? Speed? I also notice that the Abram despite its superiority is equiped with a 120mm gun which is smaller than that of the T-90 or the T-72. One more thing, is range an advantage here?

Al-Shabaab fighters flee as joint forces advance towards Marka
By Mahmoud Mohamed in Mogadishu, July 16, 2012

...."We are now 30 kilometres away from Marka, from which the radical al-Shabaab rebels are fleeing for fear of the Somali National Army and AMISOM troops as they advance towards them," ... -Abdullahi Osman, TFG Commander in Lower Shabelle

African Union soldiers stand on a tank in Laanta Buuro on July 13th, 2012.

Al-Shabaab fighters flee as joint forces advance towards Marka

This is good progress.

Olekoima wrote:I would put my money on the Abrams, especially the M12. It's heavier, faster, has better systems allowing it faster and more accurate shots. More importantly, it has seen battle. The E.A MBTs below are, in my opinion, roughly equal in capability with the exception of the T-90 which is considered 3rd gen. In tank warfare, the size of the gun (better kill rate) and weight of the tank (better defences) matter even before you put into consideration other systems and gadgets. So, this is my take;

MBT GUN RANGE WEIGHT LOADER
T-90 125mm 650km 47 TONS AUTO
T-72 125MM 460KM 41 TONS MANUAL
T-62 115MM 450KM 42 TONS MANUAL
Vickers 105mm 650km 37 TONS MANUAL
Type-59 105mm 400km 36 TONS MANUAL

Well, i agree with you here. The T-90 is in a class of its own as compared to the rest. However, i didn't think that the weight of the vehicle was a factor. Why are some countries moving towards making lighter vehicles? Speed? I also notice that the Abram despite its superiority is equiped with a 120mm gun which is smaller than that of the T-90 or the T-72. One more thing, is range an advantage here?[/quote]

Weight, for older MBTs, meant thicker armor but of course there are now composite materials that can be lighter but as tough. But the physics has largely held there. The Abrams M12 weighs in at roughly 70 tones. I am made to understand that what the Abrams' 120mm shell lacks in size it makes up for in potency. The T-90 uses, among other rounds, APFSDS shells (Armor Piercing, Fin Stabilized, Discarding Sabot) while the Abrams main staple is the M829A3. Both are kinetic energy cartridges and the pros and cons of American Vs Russian shells have been discussed in many fora, and the info in the quote below is generally taken to be true;

A
classic example is the M829A3 v.s. the BM42M (which is the latest 125
mm APFSDS for Russian tanks). The latter gets about 200 mps more muzzle
velocity then the former is estimated to weigh 4.6 kg to the former's 6
kg in penetrator mass. So in that regards, their KE's are in the same
ball park (7.25 mj to 7.05 mj), yet there's about a 200 mm disparity of
penetration between the two penetrators, as the M829A3 is estimated to
perforate 790 mm of RHA at 2km whilst the BM42M is estimated to
perforate only 600 mm of RHA at 2km.

On range, I don't think it's a terribly important factor unless you are the Quartermaster that has to make sure the fuel for the tanks is available. It's mostly a logistical and financial question with little bearing on the battlefield. The Abrams uses jet fuel(the only tank that uses it), unless you invade a country with oil and refineries, you will have little use for it's range.

Spartan wrote:

Olekoima wrote:I would put my money on the Abrams, especially the M12. It's heavier, faster, has better systems allowing it faster and more accurate shots. More importantly, it has seen battle. The E.A MBTs below are, in my opinion, roughly equal in capability with the exception of the T-90 which is considered 3rd gen. In tank warfare, the size of the gun (better kill rate) and weight of the tank (better defences) matter even before you put into consideration other systems and gadgets. So, this is my take;

MBT GUN RANGE WEIGHT LOADER
T-90 125mm 650km 47 TONS AUTO
T-72 125MM 460KM 41 TONS MANUAL
T-62 115MM 450KM 42 TONS MANUAL
Vickers 105mm 650km 37 TONS MANUAL
Type-59 105mm 400km 36 TONS MANUAL

Well, i agree with you here. The T-90 is in a class of its own as compared to the rest. However, i didn't think that the weight of the vehicle was a factor. Why are some countries moving towards making lighter vehicles? Speed? I also notice that the Abram despite its superiority is equiped with a 120mm gun which is smaller than that of the T-90 or the T-72. One more thing, is range an advantage here?

Weight, for older MBTs, meant thicker armor but of course there are now composite materials that can be lighter but as tough. But the physics has largely held there. The Abrams M12 weighs in at roughly 70 tones. I am made to understand that what the Abrams' 120mm shell lacks in size it makes up for in potency. The T-90 uses, among other rounds, APFSDS shells (Armor Piercing, Fin Stabilized, Discarding Sabot) while the Abrams main staple is the M829A3. Both are kinetic energy cartridges and the pros and cons of American Vs Russian shells have been discussed in many fora, and the info in the quote below is generally taken to be true;

A
classic example is the M829A3 v.s. the BM42M (which is the latest 125
mm APFSDS for Russian tanks). The latter gets about 200 mps more muzzle
velocity then the former is estimated to weigh 4.6 kg to the former's 6
kg in penetrator mass. So in that regards, their KE's are in the same
ball park (7.25 mj to 7.05 mj), yet there's about a 200 mm disparity of
penetration between the two penetrators, as the M829A3 is estimated to
perforate 790 mm of RHA at 2km whilst the BM42M is estimated to
perforate only 600 mm of RHA at 2km.

On range, I don't think it's a terribly important factor unless you are the Quartermaster that has to make sure the fuel for the tanks is available. It's mostly a logistical and financial question with little bearing on the battlefield. The Abrams uses jet fuel(the only tank that uses it), unless you invade a country with oil and refineries, you will have little use for it's range.[/quote]

Jet fuel? What were the Americans thinking? It must a very expensive tank to maintain then. Now i know why it may not be that apealling to many third world countries. Where is Morocco going to get all the fuel to run 200 tanks yet it is not one of the oil producers? Just wondering loudly.

US war with Iran likely?

Interesting opnion
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/brzezinski-iran-war-oil/2012/07/18/id/445804?s=al&promo_code=F879-1#ooid=I2dWxlNTr0tb4jYS9qeDB7PM153DGIpC

First, i would like to comment South Sudan for this effort towards a peace deal. Clearly the administration there is beginning to mature. North Sudan on the other hand continues to be reckless and in the process further isolating themselves. What is more, the economy is already in doldrums yet they have the audacity to reject what could be a lifeline and a return to good books. How blind can they be. Already their citizenry are getting tired and restless, perhaps a pointer to things to come. Sudan cannot afford to open another war front yet the leadership there appears incapable of seeing things as they are. A peace deal with the South represents a big leap towards the survival of this country. Anything else is perhaps asking too much:-

http://www.sudantribune.com/Khartoum-rejects-South-Sudan-s,43350

Olekoima wrote:First, i would like to comment South Sudan for this effort towards a peace deal. Clearly the administration there is beginning to mature. North Sudan on the other hand continues to be reckless and in the process further isolating themselves. What is more, the economy is already in doldrums yet they have the audacity to reject what could be a lifeline and a return to good books. How blind can they be. Already their citizenry are getting tired and restless, perhaps a pointer to things to come. Sudan cannot afford to open another war front yet the leadership there appears incapable of seeing things as they are. A peace deal with the South represents a big leap towards the survival of this country. Anything else is perhaps asking too much:-

http://www.sudantribune.com/Khartoum-rejects-South-Sudan-s,43350

@Olekoima
Al Bashir and his men are not wise and that will be their greatest undoing in the not-too-distance future.
Meanwhile: Computers at Iran's nuclear facilities have suffered a major Cyber attack that made AC/DC play at full blast.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/technology/news/article/-/14354896/acdc-cyber-attack/

Sometime last month I wrote about how oil companies manipulate the public and their share holders by sherry-picking and appropriately timing announcements. Then Africa was warned by none other than H.E on their hardball tactics on oil agreements, which includes undervaluing oil fields. Now Tullow has announced that Ghana's Jubilee field has more oil than previously thought.

For the uninitiated, production sharing agreements in oil agreements are signed basing on the value of 'recoverable' oil. So Tullow signed the PSA with Ghana arguing that only 200m barrels were recoverable, only to declare later that infact 320m barrels can be recovered. If that isn't changing the rules mid-game, someone tell me what it is. But Ghana cannot renegotiate the PSA - it's binding, and they make sure any disagreements will be taken to court in London, not Accra.

The ball is with you Kenya

Kudos to M7. He appears to have read in between the lines. The west is always out to exploit.

Can someone really tell me the advantages or weaknesses of each of these machines? Why is Russia changing to the other?

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htarm/articles/20120725.aspx

Olekoima wrote:Can someone really tell me the advantages or weaknesses of each of these machines? Why is Russia changing to the other?

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htarm/articles/20120725.aspx

Clear differences between the two versions of Infantry Fighting Vehicles, the advantages over each other very dependent on the situation and tasking. Wheeled IFV have greater survival-ability to small ordnance mined-attacks, the wheels being independently mounted where loss of some of the rubbery wheels may not entirely disable the IFV. Moreover the wheels are integral to the blast absorption capability of the IFV. A Tracked IFV loses one track and it is useless henceforth, you bail out. Wheeled IFV have a greater turn-around-to-action field maintenance in terms of replacement of drive-components. Conversely heavier ordnance such as Missile and Turret-fired explosives will more likely kill you in a Wheeled IFV than the heavier-armoured Tracked IFV. Deploying a Wheeled Forward/Recon or Quick Reaction/Response Elements into contact-zones is much faster over paved roads and roughly compacted terrain, than the ponderous and heavier Tracked version which would invariably required a Wheeled Transporter to be faster. And on-and-on, bra.

This is a very interesting development. a Bastille day of sorts?
The Tanzanian CDF?????

jasiri wrote: This is a very interesting development. a Bastille day of sorts?
The Tanzanian CDF?????

Reassuring, at least for those of us who believe in an East African Federation, Kenyana, call it what you may

As Kenyana edges closer to becoming a reality then, it would be of significance if the governments banked on military research facilities that can tap local technology that young people are exploring.. http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000062599&pageNo=2

http://www.theeastafrican.co.ke/news/Congo+war+risk+as+Kagame+threatens+to+release+Nkunda/-/2558/1434030/-/item/0/-/q846e7z/-/index.html an old story i dug up but this one has me on edge. Kagame reminds me of one school mate i had back in my high school years. The pug had a habit of threatening to throw himself into a deep creek next to our school should he get punished. One day the principal got fed up with him, called his mother then frogmarched the guy to the creek and asked him in very clear terms to effect his threat. needles to say, he didn't do it. I think it's time the world threw Kagame to the creek too.

Spartan wrote:

Reassuring, at least for those of us who believe in an East African Federation, Kenyana, call it what you may

Indeed it is, @Spartan. Kenyana is steadily walking more or less. Burundi is stable because EAC resolved it must be. And closed ranks to a man. This 50th Burundian Independence Celebration was an EAC ''Pass-0ut'' and also an EAC thrown-down-gauntlet about EAC intentions and resolve. It is why it eclipsed the Rwanda event taking place concurrently, and why the Political and Military Leadership of the EAC converged in Burundi.

The Tall thin man is unlikely to prevail now that his masters are determinedly yanking his chain, and his Kenyana colleagues have firmly closed ranks against his discredited Doctrine. Gradually Sammy and his cohorts will cut off and discard him and then assemble replacement options from across the globe - no lacking of these. In quick tandem, we will see galvanised International Civil Society, the ICC, Financial Organisations and NGOs groupings of all manner and shades; internal opposition within and without Government will be emboldened by these external manouverings. The gods exhort those they are about to destroy, as the saying goes - Kagame will be damned lucky to survive till end of his term.

Damn fine looking Platoon detachment. Two Burundians hiding in there too. And they ''aaaiiisss-rrighttt''-ed right past the Old Man in a foreign Country!!!

jasiri wrote: This is a very interesting development. a Bastille day of sorts?
The Tanzanian CDF?????

@Jasiri please tell us something about these nice photos of Kenyana's heavyweights. What was the occassion?

@Jasiri please tell us something about these nice photos of Kenyana's heavyweights. What was the occassion?

It was the Burundi National Day celebrations graced by H.E the Ole Man himself. Avery good show of solidarity n unity by E.A...btw i thot the Rwanda CDF (the guy in field camo) was holding a Vuvuzela!

jasiri wrote:

@Jasiri please tell us something about these nice photos of Kenyana's heavyweights. What was the occassion?

It was the Burundi National Day celebrations graced by H.E the Ole Man himself. Avery good show of solidarity n unity by E.A...btw i thot the Rwanda CDF (the guy in field camo) was holding a Vuvuzela!

@Jasiri
Looks like a vuvu zela Who is in the centre in green n who is in the far right?

Anyway, Shukran

http://www.monitor.co.ug/News/National/UPDF+loses+key+Somalia+AU+jobs+to+Kenyan+officers/-/688334/1465212/-/gnuvmez/-/index.html

All Clarifications about these matters is readily available in Kampala and Kenya - heck, there are substantive Communications Offices, with Names and Ranks, in both KDF and UPDF tasked with factually and correctly disseminating such sensitive information.

Kasasira must be aware of his obligation to his readership to factually validate his Stories from these Offices; amorphously designated ''sources'' cannot do at all.

@Spartan, @ Flying Crane, would you be magnanimous enough to undertake with his education freely? There is an email link to the story.
Btw - UPDF jump-off into Ituri imminent, no?

ole Nkarei wrote:http://www.monitor.co.ug/News/National/UPDF+loses+key+Somalia+AU+jobs+to+Kenyan+officers/-/688334/1465212/-/gnuvmez/-/index.html

All Clarifications about these matters is readily available in Kampala and Kenya - heck, there are substantive Communications Offices, with Names and Ranks, in both KDF and UPDF tasked with factually and correctly disseminating such sensitive information.

Kasasira must be aware of his obligation to his readership to factually validate his Stories from these Offices; amorphously designated ''sources'' cannot do at all.

@Spartan, @ Flying Crane, would you be magnanimous enough to undertake with his education freely? There is an email link to the story.
Btw - UPDF jump-off into Ituri imminent, no?

Sensational headline but the story is a load of fible-fable. What did he expect, Uganda to retain all offices when new countries are brought on board?

UPDF in Ituri? No way. Managing two theatres (Somalia and C.A.R-South Sudan) is difficult enough. But we can exert influence, and that's why the second Clinton is coming here in as many weeks.