Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

ole Nkarei wrote:Couple things have already clarified since the Uganda Minister Regional Affairs dropped this half-ton bunker buster.

1. Uganda is not posturing with this maneno like Rwanda did earlier with the Darfur Mission. This card is officially transmitted to EAC and IGAD - as a possible course of action for which everybody is screaming for reactive projections driven by a UPDF withdrawal. We are not "gaming" this - Policy Organs are demanding solid input.

2. Without UGABAG 10 the entire AMISOM mission collapses immediately. KDF remains fixated with the objectives of OLN despite rahatting to AMISOM while Ethiopia was reassured by KDF rehatting and kept their elephant-in-the-room ENDF out of Theater beyond the initial incursion. AMISOM remains the sole guarantor of a Zoomaliya Federal State and the legal bulwark against fragmentation driven by narrow sectarian forces who are themselves captives of avaricious international commercial groupings.

3. A collapse of AMISOM opens the door to fragmentation os Zoomaliya. KDF pushing across the Jubba River and establishes a line halfway to the Shabelle Valley through Bay and Bikool to join the Ethiopia Border. ENDF jumps into Hiiraan and enjoins Galmudug and Puntland. Somaliland effectively severs away. And henceforth God help us all.

This eventuality promises endless and enveloping violence in the Horn with definitive spill over effects all over EAC. Obviously LAPSSET will be still-born and viability of Kenyana evaporates as the anticipated "about-turn" from Eurocenticism to Asiacenticism along the African Indian Ocean seaboard dies suddenly.

Of course the usual international puppeteers are intent on engineering a weak accord between Kabila and the Tall Man which entrenches the century-old Status Quo in the DRC. M7/EAC-expanded drive for a break with these western-led prescriptions in favor of a holistic approach informed by history and demography of the Great Lakes region. Talk of a preemptive deployment of an EAC force is gaining ground in tandem with Uganda Threat of a withdrawal of UGABAG.

ON whats the effect of this on the initial objective of AZANIA? would a buffer state be still born? im trying to understand the context within which LAPSSET collapses with a "potentially" successfull severed somalia.

LAPSSET is benchmarked on "security-to-depth" along a corridor that spews loosely into Zoomaliya, Ethiopia and onwards to GoSS DRC and places beyond. But that itself is premised on a Vibrant, Secure, Federated Zoomaliya founded on logically formed and governable semi-autonomous regions - who will integrate into the EAC economy and draw benefits from it.

Kenya can realise the "Azania - Jubbland" initiative and integrate it to the EAC. But so long as the other regions in Zoomaliya remain outside this Azania and remain flux and insecure, the full benefits of Azania will remain unreachable. Our presence there will remain driven by national security concerns and not economic growth and demographic penetration. LAPSSET remains on the Planners Desks.

Africa is looking on waiting for LAPPSET - we must keep AMISOM fully intact in its present formulation and move beyond guns and bullets TOGETHER.

areba wrote:

ole Nkarei wrote:Couple things have already clarified since the Uganda Minister Regional Affairs dropped this half-ton bunker buster.

1. Uganda is not posturing with this maneno like Rwanda did earlier with the Darfur Mission. This card is officially transmitted to EAC and IGAD - as a possible course of action for which everybody is screaming for reactive projections driven by a UPDF withdrawal. We are not "gaming" this - Policy Organs are demanding solid input.

2. Without UGABAG 10 the entire AMISOM mission collapses immediately. KDF remains fixated with the objectives of OLN despite rahatting to AMISOM while Ethiopia was reassured by KDF rehatting and kept their elephant-in-the-room ENDF out of Theater beyond the initial incursion. AMISOM remains the sole guarantor of a Zoomaliya Federal State and the legal bulwark against fragmentation driven by narrow sectarian forces who are themselves captives of avaricious international commercial groupings.

3. A collapse of AMISOM opens the door to fragmentation os Zoomaliya. KDF pushing across the Jubba River and establishes a line halfway to the Shabelle Valley through Bay and Bikool to join the Ethiopia Border. ENDF jumps into Hiiraan and enjoins Galmudug and Puntland. Somaliland effectively severs away. And henceforth God help us all.

This eventuality promises endless and enveloping violence in the Horn with definitive spill over effects all over EAC. Obviously LAPSSET will be still-born and viability of Kenyana evaporates as the anticipated "about-turn" from Eurocenticism to Asiacenticism along the African Indian Ocean seaboard dies suddenly.

Of course the usual international puppeteers are intent on engineering a weak accord between Kabila and the Tall Man which entrenches the century-old Status Quo in the DRC. M7/EAC-expanded drive for a break with these western-led prescriptions in favor of a holistic approach informed by history and demography of the Great Lakes region. Talk of a preemptive deployment of an EAC force is gaining ground in tandem with Uganda Threat of a withdrawal of UGABAG.

ON whats the effect of this on the initial objective of AZANIA? would a buffer state be still born? im trying to understand the context within which LAPSSET collapses with a "potentially" successfull severed somalia.

The International puppeteers will do anything to keep a foot in DRC! They have tall till man both in their hands and pocket. One of the big sammy families are direct beneficiaries, they have businesses in Goma you can guess their partner, that is why 'I guess' old cute lady visits EA & SA and the whole tone of the rebuke on thin tall man switches to diplomatic language urging him to 'help find a solution' to DRC issue. As we blog, there is a push for former Chief of Rwanda Mike India Charlie to loose his asylum status in SA! Meanwhile the big powers (who are human rights propagators) are not bothered by the indefinite detention of the opposition lady by thin tall one. As I said earlier, there is simply too much wealth under DRC soil for the puppeteers to easily let go.

On another note how did we find ourselves with such a flawed law such as to grant bail to terror suspects? this is not the kind of democracy that fits us at all. I doubt even the US would allow such and even if so they would probably plant a microchip on the suspect and limit their movement, but granting bail to terror suspects and armed robbers to me is a NO-NO, add to that the possibility of having a civilian police commissioner, we were duped by foreign influence and our local ignorance

The entire old Great Lakes Matrix has undergone revolutionary changes. What the Europeans have been doing is really reactionary to this change. Moreover China is practically the most visible "foreign" face in the Congo Delta and this while Global Peace Agencies seem to be moving away from the prepinderant control of the Europeans - they cannot even generate agreement on as obvious a matter as Syria.

The Tall Man is pragmatic if nothing else. He is acutely aware of these changed International Dynamics which largely have left him orphaned. The Angolans are aggressively deploying in the DRC. The DRC might just awaken from slumber and swallow Rwanda without chewing. The Tall Man seeks security from being inside the EAC but has demographic demons to appease inside Rwanda and the DRC. This whole M23 has the markings if his cleverly calculated scheme to have all the demographic issues on the Negotiating Table before the barn door closes.

As concerns the Terrorist maneno - one of our most dangerous terrorist is called FAUD. He is sought after by every Uniform in Kenya. But some of the incredibly accurate and important Intel we have on the internal terror cells, networks, strategic and tactic posturing has been gleaned from Faud since HE JUMPED BAIL! A great number of vital components of these highly segregated Cells are in jail already for ordinary crimes easy to convict such as robbery with violence, unlicensed firearms, gun running! Believe me, these Intel and COIN chaps are bloody well switched on. They know what they are on about with these burgers. And it is just that much easier to terminate with extreme prejudice terrorist who jumps bail without too much dust flying about.

In Army COIN school they teach you how to trail a mark from in front of it! To be invisibly close you know what he ate for dinner even as and when he poops! The civilian chaps are ballet dancers at this sort of subterfugal manenos.

It is now official that M23 rebels have a foothold in Eastern DR Congo and will in the near future continue gaining ground since the UN has included the tall thin one into the security council. This means that the efforts of securing East DRC is complicated further. How would this affect JWTZ plan under the banner MONUSCO, will they be deployed on a company level to Sudan to ensue peace or is the plan to head to DRC still on course. Any uniform that is well conversant with East and central Africa matters may take this.

ole Nkarei wrote:The entire old Great Lakes Matrix has undergone revolutionary changes. What the Europeans have been doing is really reactionary to this change. Moreover China is practically the most visible "foreign" face in the Congo Delta and this while Global Peace Agencies seem to be moving away from the prepinderant control of the Europeans - they cannot even generate agreement on as obvious a matter as Syria.

The Tall Man is pragmatic if nothing else. He is acutely aware of these changed International Dynamics which largely have left him orphaned. The Angolans are aggressively deploying in the DRC. The DRC might just awaken from slumber and swallow Rwanda without chewing. The Tall Man seeks security from being inside the EAC but has demographic demons to appease inside Rwanda and the DRC. This whole M23 has the markings if his cleverly calculated scheme to have all the demographic issues on the Negotiating Table before the barn door closes.

As concerns the Terrorist maneno - one of our most dangerous terrorist is called FAUD. He is sought after by every Uniform in Kenya. But some of the incredibly accurate and important Intel we have on the internal terror cells, networks, strategic and tactic posturing has been gleaned from Faud since HE JUMPED BAIL! A great number of vital components of these highly segregated Cells are in jail already for ordinary crimes easy to convict such as robbery with violence, unlicensed firearms, gun running! Believe me, these Intel and COIN chaps are bloody well switched on. They know what they are on about with these burgers. And it is just that much easier to terminate with extreme prejudice terrorist who jumps bail without too much dust flying about.

In Army COIN school they teach you how to trail a mark from in front of it! To be invisibly close you know what he ate for dinner even as and when he poops! The civilian chaps are ballet dancers at this sort of subterfugal manenos.

Personally I'm all for an OLN type op in the Eastern DRC,yes I'm aware of logistics and other challenges. ole Nkash,if I'm not wrong you once mentioned the engagement of DRC Church enlisting the aid of the KDF in just such an op. I can't find that thread now,but I remember it. If we sit back Uncle Woo will take everything! At the end of the day,he does have his own agenda.

HokumA wrote:
CAH-24 Super Hind
Cost: $40 Million (Canadian's got it for that much)
Capacity: 8 troops or 4 stretchers
Empty weight: 8,500 kg (18,740 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 12,000 kg (26,500 lb)
Powerplant: 2× Isotov TV3-117 turbines, 1,600 kW (2,200 hp) each
Maximum speed: 335 km/h (208 mph)
Range: 450 km (280 miles) on internal fuel
Flexible 25mm dual feed auto-cannon with 1200 (600/600) rounds of ammunition
2 x 7.62mm machine guns mounted on passenger compartment doors.
Bombs within weight range up to 500 kg.
MU90 Impact homing torpedoesCFGUV-8700 gunpod
UB-32 CRV7 rocket launchers
Quad pack: 9K121 Vikhr ATGW
Quad pack: Brimstone ATGW
Quad pack: Hellfire
Multi pack: 8 x CRV-7PG, 2 x Brimstone/Hellfire/9K121 Vikhr
Quad pack: 9K338 Igla-S AAMs
Quad pack: FIM-92A Stinger Blk II AAMs
Dual pack: Python-5 AAMs
Kh-25MP (AS-12 'Kegler')-all variants

With all due respect dude you need to check your facts (and I usually like your posts but this one is out there) - Canadians operating a non US manufactured bird, its not possible.
There is no way they are operating a Hind, super or not super. A quick google will reveal that to you.

On the other topic of M7 pulling out of Crazy town. I think its posturing on his part, but its damn good posturing on his part. He knows, we know, the UN knows and hes knows we all know
Imagine playing poker with M7, you'll end up going home broke.

@Mwaura - in the run up to the last Election in the DRC, concerted efforts were made to de-legitimize the process and results. The Old Man reached out to the Catholic Church in DRC thru Counterparts in Kenya and urged them to mobilize acceptance and participation of the population. Flipside was his assurance to make the Eastern DRC problem a priority EAC agenda. Similarly after the Elections, the same forces agitated a rejection of the results through Western-backed NGOs and Civil Society groupings. Again the Church with the EAC Heads instigation forcefully endorsed the results while acknowledging the shortcomings of the process. that is the gist of what I meant.

The problem with an AMISOM-type intervention in Eastern DRC is not essentially logistics but an acceptance of such a mandate with the perennial busy bodies whose meddling created this mess. EAC cannot go head-to-head with the Europeans and still secure a mandate for intervention. So, as sly as the Serpent. Insert the Neutral force first with whatever license the Europeans will consent to, and then domesticate its operations to the EAC agenda.

Unfortunately the kebabs have felled another cop in garissa

http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000069625&story_title=Police-officer-killed-in-Garissa-attack

mchoraji wrote:Unfortunately the kebabs have felled another cop in garissa

http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000069625&story_title=Police-officer-killed-in-Garissa-attack

all these cops operating in border towns need to be retrained in tactical security operations against real threats ASAP.
..AND THE GOVERNMENT MUST CONSIDER a dusk to down curfew in such towns and conduct operations to flush out alshabab sympathizers

Agressor One ; In response to your question about how KDF taking Kismayu obscures UPDF gains,...i will give you a very simple example of how that happens.....since common sense is very common.
In your village, or town,,...if you have been feted and revered for driving a Peugeot 504 then an age-mate or classmate comes back from the city with a brand new Mercedes.....do you remain the feted/revered man of the village anymore??.....if you used to call the shots there...would your influence remain at the helm or you would be relegated?
Ponder that bro!!

About DRC and Museveni.....
Museveni and his army and his friends some living in Houston USA besides other American cities, others who own Gold refineries in Dubai, and some Kenyan thugs, have been raping Congo's Gold for decades.
THE ACTUAL DRC GOLD SMUGGLING CYCLE AND COMPLEX
Mines operated by Warlords in eastern Congo produce the Gold which is delivered to Congolese smugglers working with armed groups such as LRA, M23 etc.
The Gold is then handed over to politically connected regional smugglers in Uganda, Burundi, and Tanzania. These smugglers are able to bypass customs and authorities due to the above mentioned government key officials complicity.
The Gold is delivered to gold refiners in Dubai with the proceeds of the money wired to banks in Dubai while the refined gold is sold to jewelers in the U.S., India and China.
The Americans are tied to the cycle too through people like Kase Lawal (Museveni good friend) who owns CAMAC International, a Houston oil-trading company and appointed to serve in the Advisory Committee on Trade Policy and Negotiations by President Obama himself in 2011

The proceeds of the loot are what finances and appeases the politicians (Ugandans, Rwandans, Burundians, Tanzanian's and Kenyan's ) who offer protection to the likes of M23 and LRA and other armed groups operating in and outside of the Eastern Central Africa region.

Some positive news though. apparently Tullow has struck more oil in their second well under the sands of Turkana.It seems like UG & Kenya will be producing oil while Tz will supply natural gas.that is if we don't strike commercially viable gas deposits off shore in malindi or lamu. Hope the two younger EAC brothers rwanda & Burundi will also strike some riches.that way rwanda doesn't have to covet it's neighbour's riches

http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate+News/Tullow+strikes+oil+in+second+Northern+Kenya+operation+/-/539550/1607508/-/92ssghz/-/index.html

Analyst wrote:Agressor One ; In response to your question about how KDF taking Kismayu obscures UPDF gains,...i will give you a very simple example of how that happens.....since common sense is very common.
In your village, or town,,...if you have been feted and revered for driving a Peugeot 504 then an age-mate or classmate comes back from the city with a brand new Mercedes.....do you remain the feted/revered man of the village anymore??.....if you used to call the shots there...would your influence remain at the helm or you would be relegated?
Ponder that bro!!

About DRC and Museveni.....
Museveni and his army and his friends some living in Houston USA besides other American cities, others who own Gold refineries in Dubai, and some Kenyan thugs, have been raping Congo's Gold for decades.
THE ACTUAL DRC GOLD SMUGGLING CYCLE AND COMPLEX
Mines operated by Warlords in eastern Congo produce the Gold which is delivered to Congolese smugglers working with armed groups such as LRA, M23 etc.
The Gold is then handed over to politically connected regional smugglers in Uganda, Burundi, and Tanzania. These smugglers are able to bypass customs and authorities due to the above mentioned government key officials complicity.
The Gold is delivered to gold refiners in Dubai with the proceeds of the money wired to banks in Dubai while the refined gold is sold to jewelers in the U.S., India and China.
The Americans are tied to the cycle too through people like Kase Lawal (Museveni good friend) who owns CAMAC International, a Houston oil-trading company and appointed to serve in the Advisory Committee on Trade Policy and Negotiations by President Obama himself in 2011

The proceeds of the loot are what finances and appeases the politicians (Ugandans, Rwandans, Burundians, Tanzanian's and Kenyan's ) who offer protection to the likes of M23 and LRA and other armed groups operating in and outside of the Eastern Central Africa region.

Now, this is one of your weakest explanations ever, for how is Kismayu the Mercedes and Mogadishu, the capital city of Somalia and for many years the leading source of income for Al shabaab a Pegeot 204?

[/quote]

Now, this is one of your weakest explanations ever, for how is Kismayu the Mercedes and Mogadishu, the capital city of Somalia and for many years the leading source of income for Al shabaab a Pegeot 204?[/quote]

@ aggressor if i were you I'd just ignore analyst.you cant reason with the guy if you ask me

mchoraji wrote:

Now, this is one of your weakest explanations ever, for how is Kismayu the Mercedes and Mogadishu, the capital city of Somalia and for many years the leading source of income for Al shabaab a Pegeot 204?[/quote]

@ aggressor if i were you I'd just ignore analyst.you cant reason with the guy if you ask me[/quote]

Yes, i rest my case.

Aggressor One wrote :Now, this is one of your weakest explanations ever, for how is Kismayu the Mercedes and Mogadishu, the capital city of Somalia and for many years the leading source of income for Al shabaab a Peugeot 204?
Bro...you did not ponder about it....lets say you did not critically analyze what i implied with that imagery. I will use a more better approach to coin the underlying fact.

Geography Defines Strategic Military value and strategic political-economic value of ground.

Al-Shabaab has thrived at the Southern Somalia regions particularly the Juba region where the geography of this regions provides them both breeding ground and economic prowess. Militarily, Mogadishu doesn't have significant military value, rather its political-economic center where governance and the policy of power is posthumously generated. Mogadishu is described by intelligence experts as an "economy without a state" particularly when analyzing links between conflict, trade and foreign aid in Somalia.
Somali urban-based businessmen benefit from the profitable business activities, such as the charcoal trade whose trade and profits triggered conflict in producing areas and along transport routes while at the same time built trust among the business elite in the urban centers who then sought protection along clan-based militia to keep the trade a thriving economy largely based on trade and arbitrage, rather than on production, without a functioning state in Somalia. The absence of effective government institutions in Somalia led to the privatization of security and social services, such as education and health care by individuals who have an interest in the continuation of violence to engage in lucrative sectors of the economy which would be regulated or banned under a functioning government.
As such the production areas are not in Mogadishu rather outside Mogadishu with Mogadishu serving as the trade hub, the center of power, and the source of a public policy about the manifestation of both a political and military power in Somalia leading to the tussle between the Somali warlords and politicians.

Strategic Military Value of Kismayu

In 2006 December 24th, Ethiopians sent tanks, artillery, aircraft's and thousands of troops to Baidoa to defeat the ICU. The Islamic courts fled/retreated and changed to Al-Shabaabto the swampy south of Somalia from where they launched a bloody Guerrilla campaign againist the Ethiopian military. Throughout 2007 and 2008 using IEDs, hit and runs attacks, assassinations, and bombings, Al-Shabaab defeated the Ethiopians.

Political-Economic Value of Mogadishu
Since the deployment of UPDF under AMISOM banner in March 2007, UPDF/AMISOM has restricted itself to Mogadishu, gaurding the airport, seaport, presidential palace, and handful of key neighborhoods. In 2008 UPDF, CIA and Uganda intelligence struck a deal with elements of ICU such as Sheihkh Sharif Ahmed (former president of TFG) to achieve of control outside a few sections of Mogadishu.
UPDF was clever not to undertake both values as principal objectives rather opted for the simpler option of where the perceived mouthpieces of Somalia were and would continue being mouthpieces.

Here i describe how a ground gained may have military advantage such as facilitating transport, logistics, resupply, and essential resources such as food, trade routes, seaports, and military exercises.

Mogadishu since March 2007 ceased to poses military value to Al-Shabaab rather an economic-political value. The battle between TFG and Al-Shabaab was to sit on the 'symbol of Somali power' whose seat is Mogadishu.
However, throughout 2007 to 2012, Kismayu had the lifeline of Al-Shabaab. Kismayu and the lower Juba regions is where Al-Shabaab thrived, besides defeated Ethiopians.
Militarily-economically Kismayu was the ultimate base and bloodbank of Al-Shabaab. Training grounds, exports and imports, breeding of more militants, Al-Qaeda bases, explosives making facilities and trade routes.

Al-Shabaab in Mogadishu relied on supplies from the South through the Afgoye corridor.
Mogadishu militants have received reinforcements from the unoccupied southern Somalia for the past 7-years.
Al-Shabaab militants recruits have been trained and armed in South Somalia
Al-Shabaab militants have imported their military hardware through Kismayu
They have earned their money through exports through Kismayu
They have receieved mercenaries and trainers from Yemen through Kismayu
Kismayu remained prime to Al-Shabaab unitl that day KDF took over it.


The reason why Kismayu fall obscures UPDF gains is based on the above theoretical framework of AMISOM objective and some key elements of the Operation Linda Inchi strategic mission.
AMISOM initially did not understand in principal what strategy could ensure Al-Shabaab would die not to fight another day.
The approach was to exert pressure through a public policy supported by international community voices that someone has both the courage and goodwill to stymie militancy and restore political sanity in Somalia.
AMISOM started climbing the Al-Shabaab tree from the top rather than cutting it down from the stem wherein the stem was South Somalia (economically and militarily).
Aggressor and Mchoranji et al... i am sure i have answered your good question comprehensively....
And i have not seen you touch the Kony and M23 problem in DRC.
Looking forward to a healthy exchange.

small barrage of motar being observed between postions held by agressor one & analyst!

@Analyst - that is solid reading, bro. Much is True and some matter for debate. I am not being patronising here - a lot of material I have read is not dissimilar. But you need to stand down these comparative analysis of KDF and UPDF until we can all comfortably sit around a campfire with beer canes and not auto-mags in out fists. Right now is just not THAT time.

These casual-like hits on the AP and GD chaps up north are infuriating to a lot of people just as the get your goat up @C.sniper. It is difficult to understand why this complacency flows from. Is it just possible you chaps bequeathed the Police Force to Civil Servant-types,

small barrage of motar exchange has been observed between positions held by agressor one & those held by analyst!

MWAURA wrote:

Analyst wrote:Gentlemen

I admire the zeal to keep UPDF gains in Sector II celebrated if not treasured.
Unfortunately, Ole Nkarei and anyone who has access to real military intel or has been to Mogadishu is very well aware of the challenges and in-capacities of the UPDF.

Documentation of dead UPDF will not be known until UN guys lift the lid. In Mogadishu which is still very insecure since when we landed from the sea, two weeks ago the chattered plane was fired at. On landing UPDF soldiers milled around us with quite a number of Americans and South Africans in the ranks. (BANCROFT).

The challenges of UPDF as a military tasked with operations to out militants draw out a picture of a 'not very capable military'....

To mention a few we recently witnessed the loss of their 3-coveted attack helicopters in Kenya due to what we could call carelessness and a kind of incompetence in both strategic planning,military aviation safety -strategy, besides pilot capacity.

Another scenario that clearly puts UPDF in test is their failure to capture Kony even after the deployment of drones and American commandos to facilitate his capture. More interestingly, the Americans (am so sorry about this one) came equipped with top-notch experts who could even map the LRA routes with the aim of using of this technology to track Kony. They have satellites, and drones to facilitate this.....but its almost an year down the line and Kony is so loose and has been helping M23 quite well.

The two scenario i have briefed you gentlemen replicate the scenario in Somalia.
After the deployment of UPDF, CIA we principal in providing UPDF with vital intelligence on positions, types of arms, and the organization structure of Al-Shabaab. When deploying their soldiers, UPDF failed to achieve the principal objective an indicator of lackluster in their fold and rank.

This is where strategy and skillset-capacity overwhelms the need for smart weapons, wherein, UPDF was well armed and still is, but their leadership, style, and strategy cannot suffice to procure the desired results. Hence a declaration that 'incapable' has manifested is approved regardless of overall achievement, like in any exam when a pass is not got, a fail is awarded.

To counter losses and failures in their strategy through a special arrangement UPDF contracted BANCROFT, a private security firm tied at the hip with BLACKWATER. This time, BANCROFT with CIA, American military, and British military started training BANCROFT COMMADOS at Uganda and Mogadishu.

To make it brief......BANCROFT COMMANDOS HAVE SINCE 2011 THROUGHOUT 2012 been deployed in Sector II wearing UPDF uniforms and ranks to lead UPDF in their ops. So who does the fighting? BANCROFT or UPDF?

To enjoin the scenarios of Kony and Mogadishu quantifies the theory of lackluster and procures the bias of rationale that UPDF is not up to the task hence their slow gains.

I request officers Ole-Nkarei and Areba to go the HQ of both security depts and verify or trash this one.

Possibly, a Somali intel officer will soon publish a picture of cooler full of these fallen brothers somewhere u
nderground in southern part of Mogadishu airport.

Wacha niseme hivi! The internet is the internet;people looking for meaningless beef will always find it online. There are such individuals whose lives are so empty they're spiritually dead without some cyber excitement. For a forum like this,ideally truth,however unpalatable to some should be the sole determinant in posts.
If Analyst,whose posts are often uncannily accurate can be proven to have lied in this posts then action should be taken. Btw,we didn't finish the MBT manenos.

Just saw this on yahoo and remembered id seen this discussion here.
http://news.yahoo.com/kenyan-official-2-700-ugandans-dead-somalia-140340249.html

ole Nkarei wrote:@Mwaura - in the run up to the last Election in the DRC, concerted efforts were made to de-legitimize the process and results. The Old Man reached out to the Catholic Church in DRC thru Counterparts in Kenya and urged them to mobilize acceptance and participation of the population. Flipside was his assurance to make the Eastern DRC problem a priority EAC agenda. Similarly after the Elections, the same forces agitated a rejection of the results through Western-backed NGOs and Civil Society groupings. Again the Church with the EAC Heads instigation forcefully endorsed the results while acknowledging the shortcomings of the process. that is the gist of what I meant.

The problem with an AMISOM-type intervention in Eastern DRC is not essentially logistics but an acceptance of such a mandate with the perennial busy bodies whose meddling created this mess. EAC cannot go head-to-head with the Europeans and still secure a mandate for intervention. So, as sly as the Serpent. Insert the Neutral force first with whatever license the Europeans will consent to, and then domesticate its operations to the EAC agenda.

Thanks for the confirmation and clarification! Once on scene with everyone's approval subtly change the rulebook always ensuring strong local support-softly softly. Do you think this could one day make the E DRC part of Kenyana as firmly as South Sudan or Azania/Jubbaland? I see us missing out as the Chinese grab everything-which would be a pity.

@Kaboom - I sniffed around this matter using whatever little weight of my "little office" and calling in debts owed in Civilian outfits connected in whatever form with the AMISOM Ops since 2007; reached across border under the radar.

The UN peacekeeping Portfolio is the most bureaucratic monolithic edifice in the world, because of the multi-layered political oversight considerations since the UN must draw peacekeeping manpower from member nations most with a disparity of political systems. The meticulous documentation possible anywhere, on the movement and condition of peacekeeping personnel are an absolute Bible with this Agency.

Concerning the outrageous and irresponsible claims by Onyonka at as critical a forum, I find not one shred of factual evidence that validates these claims. Even the wildest assumptions by busy body NGOs are pedestrian in comparison to Onyonka hallucinations.

Every deploying Peace keeper is captured by this Bureaucracy months before deployment and he is closely tracked every day of the deployment and several months after the Peace keeper has completed deployment and returned to his home country. Whether in a casket or walking or limping or wheeled. This Trail is meticulously cross-collated with several resource areas such as transport agencies, medivac facilities, field-support agencies, government facilitator agencies, insurance agencies, etc

If UGABAG and FAB were losing 550 men a year, there is just no way on earth such catastrophic casualty count (7% KIA per year, not including wounded in varying incapacitation) would have stayed hidden. Hell, a half-battalion dead each year would have created a huge political and civil backlash in both countries.

Suffice to say that Burundi and Uganda have ransomed Zoomaliya with the Blood of their youth and the tears of their families. Now they are brothers.

ole Nkarei wrote:@Kaboom - I sniffed around this matter using whatever little weight of my "little office" and calling in debts owed in Civilian outfits connected in whatever form with the AMISOM Ops since 2007; reached across border under the radar.

The UN peacekeeping Portfolio is the most bureaucratic monolithic edifice in the world, because of the multi-layered political oversight considerations since the UN must draw peacekeeping manpower from member nations most with a disparity of political systems. The meticulous documentation possible anywhere, on the movement and condition of peacekeeping personnel are an absolute Bible with this Agency.

Concerning the outrageous and irresponsible claims by Onyonka at as critical a forum, I find not one shred of factual evidence that validates these claims. Even the wildest assumptions by busy body NGOs are pedestrian in comparison to Onyonka hallucinations.

Every deploying Peace keeper is captured by this Bureaucracy months before deployment and he is closely tracked every day of the deployment and several months after the Peace keeper has completed deployment and returned to his home country. Whether in a casket or walking or limping or wheeled. This Trail is meticulously cross-collated with several resource areas such as transport agencies, medivac facilities, field-support agencies, government facilitator agencies, insurance agencies, etc

If UGABAG and FAB were losing 550 men a year, there is just no way on earth such catastrophic casualty count (7% KIA per year, not including wounded in varying incapacitation) would have stayed hidden. Hell, a half-battalion dead each year would have created a huge political and civil backlash in both countries.

Suffice to say that Burundi and Uganda have ransomed Zoomaliya with the Blood of their youth and the tears of their families. Now they are brothers.

Ole Nkarei
With due respect, i will stand down but my last shot is clean one.
Operation Iraqi Freedom
Since Operation Iraqi Freedom in 2003, statistics show the US lost an average of 450 troops every year with year 2007 being catastrophic when they lost 904 troops in Iraqi. In total US lost 4486 troops in Iraqi in 9-years which is an average of 500 KIA annually. Actual intelligence confirms 4,487 US troops KIA and 32,223 Seriously Wounded.
Operation Enduring Freedom
The US has lost fewer men in the 12-years of the operation, however, in the recent past when the soldiers were engaged in counter-terrorism and guerrilla Taliban the Americans have lost more men in operation enduring freedom with year 2010 being most catastrophic when 499 troops were killed in action in Afghan. Total number of US soldiers killed in action through Operation Enduring Freedom is 2144 KIA in 12 yrs with last 7-years claiming 1800 of the total.
The above US army KIA statistics compared to the 7-year UPDF deployment in Mogadishu does not make Onyonka so much of a joker. The 2700 UPDF KIA is within range. As i had pointed out is saw in Mogadishu a cooler full of a significant number of fallen Ugandan brothers.
Uganda has been clever in keeping the lid on this issue with more deployments being used as a proxy to cover up KIA who BANCROFT claim are injured and under medicare. The indicators of the problem was noted by UNSC due to UPDF over deployment forcing AMISOM to request Kampala to reduce the number of UPDF serving AMISOM.
The info remains classified and not available anywhere...its just wind and news....and there WE CREATE OUR STOCKS, WHILE THE WIND SUPPLIES US WITH THE FLOW WHICH ALLOW US TO ANALYZE IT AND PROCURE THIS!

It was just a small cat curious about the sisal bag that lay near the almond tree.

If only eyes were cameras i could have it in my hands.

I wont be mentioning KIA issues since dead men tell no tales but they saw the war.

KaBoom!!! wrote:Just saw this on yahoo and remembered id seen this discussion here.
http://news.yahoo.com/kenyan-official-2-700-ugandans-dead-somalia-140340249.html

Been looking for links to this story which I heard late yesterday on BBC while driving home.
Ati:

AP wrote:NAIROBI, Kenya (AP) — The number of African Union troops killed while battling Somali militants has always been a tightly held secret, but a top Kenyan official says more than 2,700 troops have died there.
Richard Onyonka , Kenya's deputy minister of foreign affairs, said Wednesday at a forum on Somalia that Uganda has lost more than 2,700 troops since 2007. Onyonko said about three dozen Kenyan forces have died there over the last year.
Neither the African Union nor Uganda has ever confirmed its casualty figures, and several officials who work on Somalia said Onyonko's figure sounded high. Two officials told The Associated Press last month that about 500 Ugandan and Burundian troops have died in Somalia since 2007. A Ugandan spokesman did not answer calls for comment.

I thought this was the business of the guys at the defence ministry to shed light on. Not even the Kenyan casualties are true, haha. Sometimes I am amused by the uncordinatedness of the GoK

Come on @Analyst! Classified intel? I don't wanna pull rank but that is the Githeri of my daily menu. if it exists in Military and Civilian Intel Logs, in Kenyana, I can get it and competently validate it. With reciprocal friendlies within and without Kenyana.

And on this matter, you are kidogo off tangent - that is no slight on your superlative analytical abilities, more probably your CI is bare or some fella is "running" you. Those Onyonka numbers are bandied about by Eurocentric NGOs and their captive Eurocentric "African Expert" analyst. Nothing that soectacular in all the parallel Agencies involved in this AMISOM deployment is even remotely similar.

The actual figure may be a mite higher than admitted but only just. We ought to leave it there auseeii!

As concerns your KIA count Iraqi Afghanistan and Zoomaliya, two comments -

(1) A more realistic approach is ti relate the KIA to the size of the Deployment in these three Theaters - Onyonka gives a 7% per annul! That is a hippopotamous in a tiny room!


(2) despite the comparative lower loses relative to the force deployed, there is a huge political and civil backlash in American against the the American deployments which has only been mitigated by very astute political and administrative juggling by the Obama Administration.

I suggest, implore we keep our KIA count out of specific debates. Ama?

@Spartan - Onyanka is an Assistant Minister (not even Deputy Minister) MiniForex. Defense has its political face and on a matter such as this, that face is of the substantive Minister for Defense. I am beginning to think young @Jasiri was right about you!

Analyst wrote:
.
Uganda has been clever in keeping the lid on this issue with more deployments being used as a proxy to cover up KIA who BANCROFT claim are injured and under medicare. The indicators of the problem was noted by UNSC due to UPDF over deployment forcing AMISOM to request Kampala to reduce the number of UPDF serving AMISOM.
The info remains classified and not available anywhere...its just wind and news....and there WE CREATE OUR STOCKS, WHILE THE WIND SUPPLIES US WITH THE FLOW WHICH ALLOW US TO ANALYZE IT AND PROCURE THIS!

It was just a small cat curious about the sisal bag that lay near the almond tree.

If only eyes were cameras i could have it in my hands.

I wont be mentioning KIA issues since dead men tell no tales but they saw the war.

It actually makes sense, Ug were over-deployed by x number
of troops on paper. It might be the x
number are ones missing. when compared to a head count reads that the actual
numbers are actually on the ground. Did Ug. Send back the over-deployed numbers
ama they are still in Mogadishu, what is the actual head count over there.


I suppose we will not know right now but it was worth
asking.

kimiti wrote:

Analyst wrote:
.
Uganda has been clever in keeping the lid on this issue with more deployments being used as a proxy to cover up KIA who BANCROFT claim are injured and under medicare. The indicators of the problem was noted by UNSC due to UPDF over deployment forcing AMISOM to request Kampala to reduce the number of UPDF serving AMISOM.
The info remains classified and not available anywhere...its just wind and news....and there WE CREATE OUR STOCKS, WHILE THE WIND SUPPLIES US WITH THE FLOW WHICH ALLOW US TO ANALYZE IT AND PROCURE THIS!

It was just a small cat curious about the sisal bag that lay near the almond tree.

If only eyes were cameras i could have it in my hands.

I wont be mentioning KIA issues since dead men tell no tales but they saw the war.

It actually makes sense, Ug were over-deployed by x number
of troops on paper. It might be the x
number are ones missing. when compared to a head count reads that the actual
numbers are actually on the ground. Did Ug. Send back the over-deployed numbers
ama they are still in Mogadishu, what is the actual head count over there.


I suppose we will not know right now but it was worth
asking.

AMISOM is a lucrative International posting both financially and career-wise. With our KENBATT engagements, every soldier made efforts to get in and some "cut" not a few sharp corners. It is possible this also pertains with our brothers in Uganda.

Now, an extended deployment that inevitably loses energy or slumps into some form of mission creep could also generate distortions amongst these being an "Elastic" Establishment. Happens to best Armies - the Americans in all their Wars since and including the Indo-china engagement. OLN has an AMISOM-authorise Brigade but this oscillates beyond that dependant on the Theater engagements running.

Aiseei it is just not possible to camouflage a full one thousand dead in a force of 6500 soldiers even by whatever ingenuity. Not even the UPDF is that insular, bana!

But Kenyans just live and love conspiracies - no ordinary crime, kawaida death ever happens in Kenya. We blame it on something supernatural or attribute it to some insidiously devilish plot! Eeeiish!

kimiti wrote:

Analyst wrote:
.
Uganda has been clever in keeping the lid on this issue with more deployments being used as a proxy to cover up KIA who BANCROFT claim are injured and under medicare. The indicators of the problem was noted by UNSC due to UPDF over deployment forcing AMISOM to request Kampala to reduce the number of UPDF serving AMISOM.
The info remains classified and not available anywhere...its just wind and news....and there WE CREATE OUR STOCKS, WHILE THE WIND SUPPLIES US WITH THE FLOW WHICH ALLOW US TO ANALYZE IT AND PROCURE THIS!

It was just a small cat curious about the sisal bag that lay near the almond tree.

If only eyes were cameras i could have it in my hands.

I wont be mentioning KIA issues since dead men tell no tales but they saw the war.

It actually makes sense, Ug were over-deployed by x number
of troops on paper. It might be the x
number are ones missing. when compared to a head count reads that the actual
numbers are actually on the ground. Did Ug. Send back the over-deployed numbers
ama they are still in Mogadishu, what is the actual head count over there.


I suppose we will not know right now but it was worth
asking.

AMISOM is a lucrative International posting both financially and career-wise. With our KENBATT engagements, every soldier made efforts to get in and some "cut" not a few sharp corners. It is possible this also pertains with our brothers in Uganda.

Now, an extended deployment that inevitably loses energy or slumps into some form of mission creep could also generate distortions amongst these being an "Elastic" Establishment. Happens to best Armies - the Americans in all their Wars since and including the Indo-china engagement. OLN has an AMISOM-authorise Brigade but this oscillates beyond that ceiling dependent on the Theater engagements running at varying times.

Aiseei it is just not possible to camouflage a full one thousand dead in a force of 6500 soldiers even by whatever ingenuity. Not even the UPDF is that insular, bana!

But Kenyans just live and love conspiracies - no ordinary crime, kawaida death ever happens in Kenya. We blame it on something supernatural or attribute it to some insidiously devilish plot! Eeeiish!

ole Nkarei wrote:...As concerns your KIA count Iraqi Afghanistan and Zoomaliya, two comments -
(1) A more realistic approach is ti relate the KIA to the size of the Deployment in these three Theaters - Onyonka gives a 7% per annul! That is a hippopotamous in a tiny room!...

Coalition forces deployment in Iraq - at its peak = 176,000 soldiers
........................................Afghanistan = 100,000

ole Nkarei wrote:I suggest, implore we keep our KIA count out of specific debates. Ama?

Agreed completely. Comparison of sector/troop performance is also in bad taste, more so in the current circumstances. Our brothers and sisters are in the trenches together, can't afford to take eyes of the ball and discharge friendly fire.

ole Nkarei wrote:@Spartan - I am beginning to think young @Jasiri was right about you!

Haiya, what did young Jas say about our Sparta man?

"mogen"[quote]
Haiya, what did young Jas say about our Sparta man?

Jas drew this apt hologram of a "Black Shark" Tank-killer, hugging the ground, sun on its back, and jumping from one hill to the next other hill, and then suddenly popping out of the horizon its thirty Mike-Mike blazing to lay waste a column of wheeled Trucks and a company of MBTs - each time the names "Uganda" or UPDF or M7 cropped up in these pages.

Jas politely asked that everybody drives the conversation, instead!