Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Risasi, Ole Nkarei and Ole Sidai,
Thank you all for all your valuable and insightful explanations which i duly note and appreciate.
However, you have all missed the point that Jasiri and i were trying to put across. To start with, we were looking at Kenyana as a whole hence all latest acquisitions by neighbors should be seen as a mere plus and not a threat. Second, we are cognizant of budget constraints and the need to procure based on purpose. Towards this end we duly appreciate what is already being done. Going forward, we envisage a rich and a strategically well placed Kenyana where some foreign forces whose interest might not be well served will strive to scuttle. It is this that we are looking at hence the need to look say 15-20 years a head. Assets such as F-15/SU-30 jets will still be good then, but Vickers/T-72s/T-55s/T-62s might be obsolete. This is not to say that we get rid of them now, but rather structure procurement such that we bring in what might still be operational then.

@olekoima - thanks for your elucidation, though I was clear at your meaning earlier.

You and @Jas are very ably pojecting a Rwaza2030 Strategic Threat and extrapolating Concept responses. Sawa.

And I and the Bullet-man are saying that as this Threat Board matures going forth, so too will the response Concepts we have drawn up. And these two aspects will undergo concurrent reviews and redirection periodically to ensure their relevance at each stage.

And our ability to mitigate aspects on the Threat Board grows with the expansion of our economy. Incrementally but deliberately.

We are all on the same web page, I reckon. Ama?

Olekoima wrote:Risasi, Ole Nkarei and Ole Sidai,
Thank you all for all your valuable and insightful explanations which i duly note and appreciate.
However, you have all missed the point that Jasiri and i were trying to put across. To start with, we were looking at Kenyana as a whole hence all latest acquisitions by neighbors should be seen as a mere plus and not a threat. Second, we are cognizant of budget constraints and the need to procure based on purpose. Towards this end we duly appreciate what is already being done. Going forward, we envisage a rich and a strategically well placed Kenyana where some foreign forces whose interest might not be well served will strive to scuttle. It is this that we are looking at hence the need to look say 15-20 years a head. Assets such as F-15/SU-30 jets will still be good then, but Vickers/T-72s/T-55s/T-62s might be obsolete. This is not to say that we get rid of them now, but rather structure procurement such that we bring in what might still be operational then.

ole Nkarei wrote:@olekoima - thanks for your elucidation, though I was clear at your meaning earlier.

You and @Jas are very ably pojecting a Rwaza2030 Strategic Threat and extrapolating Concept responses. Sawa.

And I and the Bullet-man are saying that as this Threat Board matures going forth, so too will the response Concepts we have drawn up. And these two aspects will undergo concurrent reviews and redirection periodically to ensure their relevance at each stage.

And our ability to mitigate aspects on the Threat Board grows with the expansion of our economy. Incrementally but deliberately.

We are all on the same web page, I reckon. Ama?

Olekoima wrote:Risasi, Ole Nkarei and Ole Sidai,
Thank you all for all your valuable and insightful explanations which i duly note and appreciate.
However, you have all missed the point that Jasiri and i were trying to put across. To start with, we were looking at Kenyana as a whole hence all latest acquisitions by neighbors should be seen as a mere plus and not a threat. Second, we are cognizant of budget constraints and the need to procure based on purpose. Towards this end we duly appreciate what is already being done. Going forward, we envisage a rich and a strategically well placed Kenyana where some foreign forces whose interest might not be well served will strive to scuttle. It is this that we are looking at hence the need to look say 15-20 years a head. Assets such as F-15/SU-30 jets will still be good then, but Vickers/T-72s/T-55s/T-62s might be obsolete. This is not to say that we get rid of them now, but rather structure procurement such that we bring in what might still be operational then.

Got it bro, thanks.

jasiri wrote:

Air Force,

they have pretty much covered it on the fighter front. What the completely lack, n are very comfy about it, is a lack of strategic air lifters. If we are going to lock down our turf then we need to re-supply troops deployed far from our borders. our current airlift capacity is laughable for a country with this big an ambition. A couple of C-130 class (the Yun 8 looks promising) air assets ought to cover that front. Since going into the future the air operations will primarily be air-ground instead of air-air, a respectable replacement for the F-5's once they reach the end of their usefull life is in order (the F-15's if Multi role will be a huge plus).

Something like this or similar!

So here i am, patiently waiting for this country to disintegrate as M.P's do everything in their power to provoke the public to a revolt. Slowly, i am starting to detest the word 'government'.

Anyone has details of this rescue attempt by french special forces in central somalia? the french are tight lipped while kebabs are claiming they killed one of them

French commandos 'attack militant base in Somalia'
Continue reading the main story
Somalia: Failed State

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Leader's challenge
The expat factor
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Reports from Somalia suggest French commandos have carried out an operation to free a hostage, in which a number of people died.

Witnesses in Bulo Marer said they had heard helicopters above the southern town before explosions and gunfire.

Al-Shabab militants are believed to be holding a Frenchman hostage there.

An al-Shabab spokesman told AFP news agency one French soldier had been killed and that the hostage had not been in the area..

2 French soldiers killed plus the hostage. 17 militants killed.they must have screwed up something real bad.The town is quite near the kenyan border.thought those areas were already under the KDF or the ENDF

Details are invalidated. Will clarify in short order. But near Mer ka in lower Shabelle just outside Sector II.

Such unilateral uncoordinated actions though intended to be surgical precision strikes will only further aggravate this Soomaliya Powder-Keg. Of course French Action in Mali against AlQaida made the rescue raid in Merka inevitable and probably hurried fly-by-wire type operation. No local interface at all. Sad but understandable justifications. And results unsurprising.

To revisit a suggested Gun-ship Corps configuration by @ole Sidai and differences between the "Black Shark" and "Havoc" as well as the Mi-35.

In the opinion of the 50th, the head-to-head early last year up north (camel-country) between two monsters were explicit of the superiority of the Black Shark. In every aspect except the faster target-acquisition and other advantages of a two-man crewed Havoc. Agility, Armament, Speed, Range, Power utilization, payload, Service ceiling, Climb Rate, Disc load and Area, Weapons Operating Systems, Pilot and equipment interface, etc... A Tank and Infantry Corps Commanders' absolute nightmare. Pity the Four-units Team Black Sharks were a late-show this time.

this politician thinks he is very smart and clever.he wants to change the whole traininng manual of the kenya armed forces. next year when he and his friend will win the elections. i hope he sorts out hague maneno kwanza




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bg9m8b7HPJM

ole Nkarei wrote:Details are invalidated. Will clarify in short order. But near Mer ka in lower Shabelle just outside Sector II.

Such unilateral uncoordinated actions though intended to be surgical precision strikes will only further aggravate this Soomaliya Powder-Keg. Of course French Action in Mali against AlQaida made the rescue raid in Merka inevitable and probably hurried fly-by-wire type operation. No local interface at all. Sad but understandable justifications. And results unsurprising.

echoes of black hawk down come back eerily

Happy new year to all! I've been meaning to respond since the new year so forgive me for overloading my post.
Firstly,we don't actually need MBTs. You don't an MBT to destroy another MBT. Our aircav is now NATO standard anti tank capable. Ideally,given Kenyana's wide area wheeled armour would be cheaper to operate-MBT tracks need replacement every 2000 km or so. Remember the SADF did quite well with Ratels in Angola. I'm thinking of heavy 8x8 or 10x10 120 mm armed AFVs like the Centauro or even the Finnish Patria with its ground breaking double barrelled 120 mm mortar system,both MSRI and direct fire capable.








Let me say I'm thinking of a 10-15 year time frame-let's not break the bank tomorrow!
The fact that a KMEF exists in embryonic form illustrates the importance of serious investment-time flies! IMO,a debatable mix of OPVs weighted with a few frigates ,(with at least 1 dedicated chopper frigate)would suffice. I'd be happy with at least 2 subs for each fleet,Pakistani or Indian boats, AIP capable. Somebody mentioned 2 fleets. I agree but mine would have the Home Fleet responsible for the Coastline down to N.Mozambique up to Puntland. The other fleet would be based in Freetown,(yes ,I know the Naijjas would scratch their heads) but the KDF still has much goodwill from their peacekeeping ops.
Will continue later

ole Nkarei wrote:To revisit a suggested Gun-ship Corps configuration by @ole Sidai and differences between the "Black Shark" and "Havoc" as well as the Mi-35.

In the opinion of the 50th, the head-to-head early last year up north (camel-country) between two monsters were explicit of the superiority of the Black Shark. In every aspect except the faster target-acquisition and other advantages of a two-man crewed Havoc. Agility, Armament, Speed, Range, Power utilization, payload, Service ceiling, Climb Rate, Disc load and Area, Weapons Operating Systems, Pilot and equipment interface, etc... A Tank and Infantry Corps Commanders' absolute nightmare. Pity the Four-units Team Black Sharks were a late-show this time.

I can only imagine the wonderful experience and fun those guys of 50 had on the Northern fields. I remember the years such flights being accused of activating miscarriage to camels and cows. That was then and the mighty powers of the time.

Well, Ka 52 (Alligator) knocks down all Mi series in maneuver, speed and technology plus its 2 seater unlike the Ka 50(Black Shark) that you toyed with. Ka 52K was upgraded (late last yr)with Mig-35 fighter's ZHUK-AESA radar in the nose section which can be configured for sea patrols and armament. Pilot ejection capability is also special. You will need to court red square with a lot of vodka to dance with the Alligator. I too would pick Havoc over Black Shark but Alligator over Havoc. Mi-35 beats them all except in speed and maneuver where Alligator rules. In anti-tank role, Alligator is 2nd to Warthog. It's impressive to note how clever your current composition was crafted..eeh. Btw, what happened of the fast noise makers? Did Sammy cut off his eagle wings or what’s the story especially after Sea Bees Job?

i read there was acaptured commando inthe raid.since this happens to be in our sector and our special guys hv hunting licence.any possiblities of finishing the job for hollande?

@Timoh
I say again, Lower Shabelle is out of our Sector. All KDF hunting in that Block are unsanctioned by UNSC - if they go bad, there is full deniability and the rolling heads stop at our feet.

In typical European manner, no local interface in the French raid. They may have gotten better results if they piggy-backed the Ops on the UPDF and SNA. Or outsourced to us. But...

@ole Sidai
Bro, for the sort of sophistication of opponents and related the Israeli(and first world conflicts) face, they absolutely must have a two-man Crew as a bare minimum in an Attack Chopper - increased interface with automated weapons system with the advantage of dedicating to Pilot to move the Bird about. So, they took out the beautiful Black Shark and shot her full of masculine Steroids! Our Tactical Attack component of the 50th is Primarily Pivoting on the Wajir-Lokichogio Axis facing you-know-who. That is a straight forward slugging match against basic Armor and Infantry-type Formations. And nothing fits as well in that Theater as a haf-crazy Pilot in a Black Shark! The vertical Insertions of SOCOM is adequately covered with Z-9w and MD500 for single-sticks, while the Pumas and fixed wing aircraft for larger Troope-size drops. Now, two team of Havocs anywhere on the Coast and a couple of Sentinel Prop Aircraft such as were very recently fitted with that same advance Maritime Surveillance Radar by Johnny, and you can have the entire EEZ locked tight.

There is an outstanding gap-order from the CDF on those Eagles that I aint brave enough to breech. But conversions running.

timoh wrote:i read there was acaptured commando inthe raid.since this happens to be in our sector and our special guys hv hunting licence.any possiblities of finishing the job for hollande?

timoh wrote:i read there was acaptured commando inthe raid.since this happens to be in our sector and our special guys hv hunting licence.any possiblities of finishing the job for hollande?

I empathise and sympathise with families and units that have lost comrades and loved ones world over. somehow, this feling is exclusive of the French. I feel the French have probably got the biggest affliction of the 'mine is bigger than yours' disease. As a result, they keep getting thumped every few years. Even Americans aren't half as crazy. . . Dien Bien Phu anyone? I hope the swallow their pride soon and do like normal people do.

@ole Sidai
Bro, for the sort of sophistication of opponents and related the Israeli(and first world conflicts) face, they absolutely must have a two-man Crew as a bare minimum in an Attack Chopper - increased interface with automated weapons system with the advantage of dedicating to Pilot to move the Bird about. So, they took out the beautiful Black Shark and shot her full of masculine Steroids! Our Tactical Attack component of the 50th is Primarily Pivoting on the Wajir-Lokichogio Axis facing you-know-who. That is a straight forward slugging match against basic Armor and Infantry-type Formations. And nothing fits as well in that Theater as a haf-crazy Pilot in a Black Shark! The vertical Insertions of SOCOM is adequately covered with Z-9w and MD500 for single-sticks, while the Pumas and fixed wing aircraft for larger Troope-size drops. Now, two team of Havocs anywhere on the Coast and a couple of Sentinel Prop Aircraft such as were very recently fitted with that same advance Maritime Surveillance Radar by Johnny, and you can have the entire EEZ locked tight.

@the son of Nkerai
The need for gag order is quite understandable though tax payer is an impatient lad. Amidst regional procurement frenzy, caution and precision will definitely result into best decisions to serve threat matrix for decades. MD 500 served us excellently despite Hides in the surroundings, so do vikers, my former toys @ seven sixers and tigers. Current procurements have been expertly done suiting well documented needs. I wouldn't mind if eagles took few more years off the ladder as other security threatening issues get pinned down. In particular there is great need to modernize ranching system with a view to wipe out cattle rustling and subsequent armament needs. Modern branding and use of GPS/chips tagging can greatly reduce this menace. A lot of political temperament need be done alongside inter-County coordination. Internal security is our immediate concern post kiss-mayo success. Actually, DC 5 and Puma replacement or upgrading can take priority before eagles.

Quick quip, that Chinese QSZ 92 is a rare find in this part of 2nd amendment frenzy! Glock rules esp now that its part of teachers kit! When I was in sch, my teacher always carried a kiboko and obcourse after walking miles in the cold plains was late for morning parade bila mng'aro wa kiwi. Substitute kiboko with Glock and Taurus in this region....madness. I see Glock(hyped toy) prices going down elsewhere being substituted by big sales here. To equip my guys, I would go for 1. FN Five-Seven, 2. HS 2000, 3. Deset Eagle (both 2 series) in that order. I magine 30th/RSF with M4 and FN Five-Seven with 4 clips of 30rds body armor piercing 5.7mm strapped?

Been analyzing this failed rescue attempt & I honestly feel there was no need to hurry it if the guys were not ready.

Ole Nkarei; French Action in Mali against AlQaida made the rescue raid in Merka inevitable and probably hurried fly-by-wire type operation.

The French have already said that there are at least 9 hostages in Africa

Al-Jazeera; Allex is among nine French hostages in Africa of whom at least six are held by al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb

To me the six held in the Maghreb which is basically the group the French attacked in Mali were the ones in most imminent danger.....& they still are!

BBC; Islamist groups in West Africa are still holding several French hostages and have threatened reprisals against them and other French targets.

Meanwhile France has indicated it wants Ecowas to rapidly deploy with the Mali military in the areas they push the rebels back with their airstrikes.It however wont be a walk in the park for the wafaransa.a chopper has already been downed with it's pilot killed.However this may deal a death blow to the rebels.already they've routed from a few towns with their weapons' stores destroyed & bases razed to the ground. Ecowas' troops' advance teams meanwhile have landed in Mali.

BBC; Since the start of the French intervention on Friday, at least 11 Malian soldiers and a French helicopter pilot have died.

[quote]

mchoraji wrote:2 French soldiers killed plus the hostage. 17 militants killed.they must have screwed up something real bad.The town is quite near the kenyan border.thought those areas were already under the KDF or the ENDF

Damn Kebabs displaying body of the fallen FRENCH DSDG

Someone was itching to see them over our airspace in our colours........there you go buddies! The resolution not the best....but then who cares!

countersniper wrote:this politician thinks he is very smart and clever.he wants to change the whole traininng manual of the kenya armed forces. next year when he and his friend will win the elections. i hope he sorts out hague maneno kwanza

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bg9m8b7HPJM

Case of a politician running his mouth before engaging his brain kama kawaida. Probably, the guy has little knowledge on the specifics of the respective training programs of various branches of our security forces.

mchoraji wrote:Someone was itching to see them over our airspace in our colours........there you go buddies! The resolution not the best....but then who cares!

Man @mchoranji youve made my day.And Quite menacing birds.Did they see any action in Chai Town? These 28s looks like a cross between the Super Cobra and the Apache?

Neutral Ground wrote:

These 28s looks like a cross between the Super Cobra and the Apache?[/quote]

Am not a soldier @ neutral ground just an (over) enthusiastic civilian on anything military. i also love 'bird watching'. Mr ole nkarei should know we are out looking for the fast birds.my only concern is when i'l see them they have disappeared by the time nitoe my camera

@Neutral Ground
Those Mi28s saw action in Theatre. I saw one of them in a photo from theatre and it looked menacing indeed. But the cute photo of the three was most likely taken elsewhere but no one will tell your where exactly hata uulize namna gani. Lakini ni sawa tu.

Neutral Ground wrote:

mchoraji wrote:Someone was itching to see them over our airspace in our colours........there you go buddies! The resolution not the best....but then who cares!

Man @mchoranji youve made my day.And Quite menacing birds.Did they see any action in Chai Town? These 28s looks like a cross between the Super Cobra and the Apache?

[quote="mchoraji"]

Neutral Ground wrote:
.. i also love 'bird watching'. Mr ole nkarei should know we are out looking for the fast birds.my only concern is when i'l see them they have disappeared by the time nitoe my camera

I'm also waiting and am sure in the fullness of time we will have opportunity to snap our cameras and imortalize them fast ones. Tutasubiri tu.

mchoraji wrote:

Neutral Ground wrote:

These 28s looks like a cross between the Super Cobra and the Apache?

Am not a soldier @ neutral ground just an (over) enthusiastic civilian on anything military. i also love 'bird watching'. Mr ole nkarei should know we are out looking for the fast birds.my only concern is when i'l see them they have disappeared by the time nitoe my camera[/quote]

@Mchoraji you are one LUCKY enthusiastic "civilian" and your camera ,I wouldn't mind one MYSELF.He He He! And to be at the right place and the right time ,and bingo SNAP SNAP SNAP. Oh

mchoraji wrote:

Neutral Ground wrote:

These 28s looks like a cross between the Super Cobra and the Apache?

...my only concern is when i'l see them they have disappeared by the time nitoe my camera

A good smart phone's camera at hand may actually do the trick, @mchoraji.

[quote="mogen"]

mchoraji wrote:

Neutral Ground wrote:
.. i also love 'bird watching'. Mr ole nkarei should know we are out looking for the fast birds.my only concern is when i'l see them they have disappeared by the time nitoe my camera

I'm also waiting and am sure in the fullness of time we will have opportunity to snap our cameras and imortalize them fast ones. Tutasubiri tu.

Agreed @mogen your averta seem to be patiently waiting for something.I hadn't noticed untill now.

See a similar 28N display action

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIAsjOaey2M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=kxxW3TQNQOk

Lovely Birds they are. Cant wait for the fast ones

mchoraji wrote:Someone was itching to see them over our airspace in our colours........there you go buddies! The resolution not the best....but then who cares!

Isn't this a beautifull way to start the new year? Haya, walisema wakatenda..tuone yajayo sasa.