Re: REGIONAL DISCUSSIONS:

Spartan Thu Apr 12 2012, 13:27

Analyst wrote:
Spartan wrote:

That sums me up too, extremely well put. But there are people here who will simply not be adults. Nuff said.

At times, your credibility as a soldier comes to question when you make statements like the one above.....and i can believe Aggressor 1, is a soldier since he is very composed, always thinking ahead, and his sentiments and quite, (allow me to say.....psychologically sane).

Soldiers are not emotive rather functional and composed.
When driving you will always see a soldier make way for you to pass, he never hoots without reason, and has no road rage.....

Read Aggressors comments,
Read Ole-Nkarei's comments,
Mwaura's comments
Risasi's comments

If you are a soldier....did you really read those manuals about peacekeeping,(a laminated white and black manual in English and other languages of where you will be deployed)..... keeping calm, addressing issues in a composed manner, and being civil when faced by hostilities?....

Just a honest question to reputed forummer and expert like you!!!

Making 12 years next year. What's uncomposed about that statement? Can you have an honest discussion without trashing everyone who disagrees with you? You are the only person on this forum who's had a bone to pick with everyone. GROW UP

Guest Thu Apr 12 2012, 13:53

Stand down, people. No need for all that.

@Vitruvian - Don’t despair, buddy. There is hope for us. And despite the sometimes missteps, we have taken some decisive little steps too – Kenyana is more real this year than it was four years ago -(i)EAC has moved the Unified Military Force Projection intentions beyond the Planning phases (AMISOM) and we are kicking Arse together pretty damn good, (ii)has reined-in and almost routed the ethnic BS in BurunDI, (iii)kept the Kivu from genocidal eruptions, (iv)reigned in the Tall Thin One and his multitude of murderous hangers-on, -we collared Nkunda in Gisenyi, and Ntaganda is about to fry!! (v) mid-wived & wet-nursed the ‘’peace’’ in the Sudan, (vi)pried ‘’fingers-from-throats’’ in Ethiopia and Eritrea, (vii)IGAD is now effectively Kenyana ‘’UNSC’’, (viii)re-engineered Western Geopolitical attitudes to Kenyana, (ix) deepend Governance-responsiveness in EAC, hell, the list is honestly endless. We have grown!!

As concerns the tit-for-tatting on UPDF / KDF. Perfectly alright as long as we don’t go crazy on each other – the Brits, Germans, French have been at it for sixty years!! I tell you, this forum has a huge readership in very critical planning circles in both countries – civilian and military. Chaps I know who read their ‘’bible-like verses’ here!! Like myself, dammit!! There is a hell of a lot of information that has circulated about in this forum which would have remained in shadows. And it is not espionage, nor treasonous, thank God!! Greater Civilians and Uniforms entente, across borders too. Relax, and enjoy the ride!!

Analyst Thu Apr 12 2012, 14:18

Spartan wrote:

hehee!
Spartan....we can always measure, test,& prove a mans wisdom by his words. Too bad. Maybe you are a soldier eh...!

Analyst wrote:
Spartan wrote:

That sums me up too, extremely well put. But there are people here who will simply not be adults. Nuff said.

At times, your credibility as a soldier comes to question when you make statements like the one above.....and i can believe Aggressor 1, is a soldier since he is very composed, always thinking ahead, and his sentiments and quite, (allow me to say.....psychologically sane).

Soldiers are not emotive rather functional and composed.
When driving you will always see a soldier make way for you to pass, he never hoots without reason, and h
s no road rage.....

Read Aggressors comments,
Read Ole-Nkarei's comments,
Mwaura's comments
Risasi's comments

If you are a soldier....did you really read those manuals about peacekeeping,(a laminated white and black manual in English and other languages of where you will be deployed)..... keeping calm, addressing issues in a composed manner, and being civil when faced by hostilities?....

Just a honest question to reputed forummer and expert like you!!!

Making 12 years next year. What's uncomposed about that statement? Can you have an honest discussion without trashing everyone who disagrees with you? You are the only person on this forum who's had a bone to pick with everyone. GROW UP

aggressor one Thu Apr 12 2012, 15:10

ole Nkarei wrote:Stand down, people. No need for all that.

@Vitruvian - Don’t despair, buddy. There is hope for us. And despite the sometimes missteps, we have taken some decisive little steps too – Kenyana is more real this year than it was four years ago -(i)EAC has moved the Unified Military Force Projection intentions beyond the Planning phases (AMISOM) and we are kicking Arse together pretty damn good, (ii)has reined-in and almost routed the ethnic BS in BurunDI, (iii)kept the Kivu from genocidal eruptions, (iv)reigned in the Tall Thin One and his multitude of murderous hangers-on, -we collared Nkunda in Gisenyi, and Ntaganda is about to fry!! (v) mid-wived & wet-nursed the ‘’peace’’ in the Sudan, (vi)pried ‘’fingers-from-throats’’ in Ethiopia and Eritrea, (vii)IGAD is now effectively Kenyana ‘’UNSC’’, (viii)re-engineered Western Geopolitical attitudes to Kenyana, (ix) deepend Governance-responsiveness in EAC, hell, the list is honestly endless. We have grown!!

As concerns the tit-for-tatting on UPDF / KDF. Perfectly alright as long as we don’t go crazy on each other – the Brits, Germans, French have been at it for sixty years!! I tell you, this forum has a huge readership in very critical planning circles in both countries – civilian and military. Chaps I know who read their ‘’bible-like verses’ here!! Like myself, dammit!! There is a hell of a lot of information that has circulated about in this forum which would have remained in shadows. And it is not espionage, nor treasonous, thank God!! Greater Civilians and Uniforms entente, across borders too. Relax, and enjoy the ride!!

Ole, it is true all of us are here because of the spirit of East africa, which is why we should avoid some statements if we are to move ahead. But we must be sensitive in some of the statements we make here, for the sake of 'brotherhood' For example, Analyst-who sees Kenya in whatever Uganda does militarily 'analysed' today that one of the reasons for Uganda`s upgrading is because Uganda has plans to intervene in Kenya just in case madness comes again in 2013, which is as you said later is a wrong analysis.

However, one that staggers on dangerously 'becoming a reality' if (and am not calling for it) Kenyans get mad again after the coming elections and start killing each other. Not a reality because UG forces will intervene, but because somebody started a rummor, peddling it as a fact.

In 2007 when Kenyans ran mad, a similar rummor was circulated in Kenya-that Ugandan forces had entered Kenya and were helping Kibaki kill Kenyans....Among many Kenyans, it was a fact (I have talked to many of them) and yet it was just that, a reckless rummor that was started simply because some Kenyans could not believe that their fellow Kenyan security forces would shoot and kill them the way they did!

And yes, i agree with Spartan that Analyst is one of these two Kenyans...A long distance runner who even runs past his home or a very naturally argumentative character who can never accept any other person`s view and those are several in Kenya. A few years ago, i was boarded for a workshop at a Kenya Tourist Training Insitute, near Naivasha town and of course there were a couple of Kenyans there. On the last day of the workshop, we had a kind of send off party and we used it to argue over several issues including regional politics. Our group had a Zimbabwean, there was a professor who is now in the kenyan cabinet and several Kenyan journalists and Lawyers. The Zimbabwean who was defending Mugabe walked away first-tired of the arguements, the Ugandans some defending Museveni and others a bit liberal, including me soldiered on past 4:00am leaving at least four Kenyans to tussle it out over who was better between Kibaki and Odinga, however when i went back for breakfast at around 9:00am, two of the Kenyans were still there, shouting at each other, but saying nothing useful in particular. Analyst i bet is borne of tht character.

Sierra Kilo Thu Apr 12 2012, 16:58

Analyst wrote:When Kenya acquired the Kamov helicopters, training of the pilots and procurement of the resources to support such modern war machine was brought in. The helicopters are now flying and ready to use.

@Analyst, please provide a link or pictures of these helios in Kenyan Colours.....or is this another quip from SIN???

mbs Thu Apr 12 2012, 19:41

Olekoima wrote:Okay guys, as soon as you are through with this rivalry let's pay a little attention to the grave developments up north. We will all be sucked in for sure. What do you say?

Personally, SS are trying to flex their military/political independence. They think they have the ability to take on Sudan since Sudan will not be able to fight a war from different fronts. There are different fronts waiting for the war with the South to start to take the war to al bashir. Darfur knows this will be the most appropriate time. Nevertheless, we cant let SS escape our clutches. We are bound to lose alot Financially if the war ends up in SS capitulating, or even worse, Al Bashir losing power. We gain way more with a 'stable' Northern Sudan than a 'Democratic' Northern Sudan.

cylon Thu Apr 12 2012, 20:39

[quote="mbs"]

Olekoima wrote:Okay guys, as soon as you are through with this rivalry let's pay a little attention to the grave developments up north. We will all be sucked in for sure. What do you say?

Well not to worry Olekomia Goss wants to really stir the Hornets nest doesnt it well thats a shame. Like ON said that if they keep poking at Albashir and he attacks them with his full might we wont be able to help them they are in that ship by themselves, But kenya has a plan B they would have a diplomactic metting with Salvir Kiir and Mr odinga and they will discuss/ Mediate peace between the two countries and if that fails then Uganda and kenya better have atleast a squadron of attack jets on standby. Also i believe the Aggressors is not the SS army but the uncontrollable rebels that ponder and attack sudan outposts on the behalf of shady government ministers. and thts my 3cent opinion.

cylon Thu Apr 12 2012, 20:47

Olekoima wrote:
cylon wrote:Uganda is getting T-90s while us in kenya we have our old aging but reliable Vickers tanks and the newly acquired T-72 that will meet a different fate in a different country.
The Type99
it is equipped with newer modular active protection system
It has a JD-4 active laser defense system
It has more powerful engine
It is also equipped with a 155 mm gun capable of firing next-generation kinetic rounds
It features a dual-axis stabilized 125mm/50-calibre ZPT98 smoothbore gun.
It carries Russian anti-tank missiles called 9M119 Refleks.
This tank can attain a top speed of 80km/h
It weighs 54 tonnes for Type-99G, 57 tonnes for Type-99A1, 58 tonnes for Type-99A2
It is operated by 3 crews.

Type96G
12.7mm anti-aircraft machine gun mounted on turret roof
of the turret. Tank crew is protected by a over-pressure collective NBC
protection and a fully automatic fire/explosion suppression system.
The 41.5t tank is powered
by a liquid-cooled 1,000hp diesel engine, providing a power to weight
ratio of about 24.1hp/t. The engine can be replaced within 40 minutes
in field conditions, and gives the tank a maximum road speed of 65km/h.
Suspension is of the conventional torsion bar type and there are six
rubber-tyred roadwheels countermeasures system similar to the Russian Shtora-1, which is mounted
on the Russian T-80 and T-90 series and the Ukrainian T-84. The two
box-shape on either side of the turret are electro-optical jammers
designed to jams the enemy's semiautomatic command to line of sight
(SACLOS) antitank guided missiles, laser rangefinders and target
designators.

Leclerc
Steel, aluminium, NERA, perforated armour.
Batch 10 introduced titanium and tungsten instead of aluminium.

GIAT CN120-26/52, 120mm tank gun^[3]
40 rounds (1 round ready to fire in the chamber, 22 rounds inside the
autoloader magazine with additional 18 rounds in the chassis)
12.7 mm coaxial M2HB machine gun
1,100 rounds
7.62mm machine gun
3,000 rounds
8-cylinder diesel SACM (Wärtsilä)
1,500 hp^[3] (1,100 kW)
27.52 hp/tonne^[3]
Automatic SESM ESM500
hydropneumatic
550 km, 650 km (400 mi) with external fuel^[3]
72 km/h (45 mph)

The T-84
It has a 26 hp/t power-to-weight ratio (compared to 18 hp/t of the contemporary Russian T-90
It is designed to perform well in hot climates, and even includes an air-conditioned crew compartment
It is operated by 3 crews
It can attain a speed of 65 km/h
The T-84 Oplot is an advanced version incorporating an armored
ammunition compartment in a new turret bustle. The T-84-120 Yatagan is a
prototype model intended for export, mounting a 120 mm gun capable of
firing standard NATO ammunition and guided missiles.

The Abrams,Challenger,Leopard,Merkava can still handle the T-90

Interesting, but is a T-90 tank necessarily better than the T-72? The Russians themselves don't seem to like them much. And hey you forgot to mention the Leopard, it is one of the best tanks around. The T-90 will clearly struggle against it.

I was gonna add the Leopard,Merkava and Abrams but then i realized the post would have been to long. the T-90 is better than the T-72 because it has all of the latest upgrades.

mbs Thu Apr 12 2012, 20:56

[quote="cylon"]

mbs wrote:
Olekoima wrote:Okay guys, as soon as you are through with this rivalry let's pay a little attention to the grave developments up north. We will all be sucked in for sure. What do you say?

Well not to worry Olekomia Goss wants to really stir the Hornets nest doesnt it well thats a shame. Like ON said that if they keep poking at Albashir and he attacks them with his full might we wont be able to help them they are in that ship by themselves, But kenya has a plan B they would have a diplomactic metting with Salvir Kiir and Mr odinga and they will discuss/ Mediate peace between the two countries and if that fails then Uganda and kenya better have atleast a squadron of attack jets on standby. Also i believe the Aggressors is not the SS army but the uncontrollable rebels that ponder and attack sudan outposts on the behalf of shady government ministers. and thts my 3cent opinion.

It is not in our interest to defend SS unless Khartoum decides to invade SS. SS problem is that they are being greedy with the Natural Resources to an extend they are grabbing Oil Sites that are in Sudans Territory ! I know Sudan is not an Angel, but give them breathing Space to hang themselves ! We need The 'likes' of Al Bashir to run Sudan so that we can make some dollar from the pot in SS. If we intervene militarily in the conflict heavens forbid, and for some reason we get a democratic State in Northern Sudan, then we will all loose alot of money !

cylon Thu Apr 12 2012, 21:07

Analyst wrote:
Uganda acquisitions in the recent past is too ambitious. However, it is in line with several scenarios aforementioned here.

Egypt strategic location is too un-logical to pose a significant economic-military threat to Uganda. Uganda's air defense (6-Sukhoi's) cannot survive a squadron of 12-24 F-16 fighters, even in a dog fight let alone making it to Alexandria. However, the LRA-Sudan problem could facilitate Uganda's incursion into the South Sudan forests to pursue LRA and even do some sorties plus several tank-led missions.

Ugandas acquisitions are not too ambitious thats like me saying because kenya hooked 35 eagles,several navy boats, and tanks is crazy but as military agendas grow every country has the right to secure arms to protect it borders at all costs.

Egypt pose a huge threat to the great lakes nation, As populations grow and the water gets scarce those lakes will be each and every countries drinking fountain and the hording Egyptians will be forced to try and put an end to it. Using the treaty they signed with sudan/ egypt could ask to use sudanese airbases so they can launch attacks that would at least cripple our ability to retaliate then they would send a fleet of river patrol boats that would occupy the victoria until another treaty is drawn up. but i always like to think that Kenya/Uganda have plan B's in storage getting ready to activate if such things were to occur.

@Viturian thanks for that powerful insight.

@Mwaura the chinese fixed the that instability when they rolled out with an upgrade to fix that problem.

But is it only me but does the tank in the battlefield today look promising anymore

cylon Thu Apr 12 2012, 21:33

[quote="mbs"]

cylon wrote:
mbs wrote:
Olekoima wrote:Okay guys, as soon as you are through with this rivalry let's pay a little attention to the grave developments up north. We will all be sucked in for sure. What do you say?

Well not to worry Olekomia Goss wants to really stir the Hornets nest and thats a shame. Like ON said that if they keep poking at Albashir and he attacks them with his full might we wont be able to help them they are in that ship by themselves, But kenya has a plan B they would have a diplomatic metting with Salvir Kiir and Mr odinga and they will discuss/ Mediate peace between the two countries and if that fails then Uganda and kenya better have atleast a squadron of attack jets on standby. Also i believe the Aggressors is not the SS army but the uncontrollable rebels that ponder and attack sudan outposts on the behalf of shady government ministers. and thts my 3cent opinion.

It is not in our interest to defend SS unless Khartoum decides to invade SS. SS problem is that they are being greedy with the Natural Resources to an extend they are grabbing Oil Sites that are in Sudans Territory ! I know Sudan is not an Angel, but give them breathing Space to hang themselves ! We need The 'likes' of Al Bashir to run Sudan so that we can make some dollar from the pot in SS. If we intervene militarily in the conflict heavens forbid, and for some reason we get a democratic State in Northern Sudan, then we will all loose alot of money !

Well said Mbs its not in our interest if things were to hit the fan IGAD will of course put an end to things. Goss reminds me of a greedy baby that is sucking its mother dry and doesnt seem to know that feeding time is over(i hope this is a good metaphor). I am more concerned about the DRC and it seems that things are very shaky there Kabila must now begin to rule with an Iron Fist and stop getting advice from the west but rather from its neighbors. East DRC should have at least more than 150,000 governments trained troops that are vigorously put on trials so they abandoned their old ways and be the protectors of the congo. Then the tall thin one but reconcile the differences of the two Kivu's and instill a free trade zone that would blanket the borders of rwanda and drc and uganda healing old wounds. Now we must encourage our countries to build the east/west pan african road that will connect the capitals of all our neighboring cities so that movement becomes easier From nairobi to Kampala a super highway should be built that would join kampala to kigali from there to Bujumbura. and also from kigali to Kinshasa and also Bujumbura to DAR-eslam connecting with mombasa and then back to nairobi and each country will be responsible of building sections of the road so what do you say guys.

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/africa/Aid-Group-Says-Unrest-Makes-Eastern-DRC-Operations-Unsafe-147168525.html?utm_source=voaafrica&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=en&utm_content=twitterfeed

Risasi Thu Apr 12 2012, 22:08

@ Mr. Olekoima You guys are at it again? Those of you whom we were together at the Chronicles-… we don,t hate each other . it’s a matter of putting ideas and planning at the right perspective. Nothing demeaning or character assignation just part of the paycheck.

@mbs This is the bit that I dont get, why the F-15 and not the Rafale or even the Sukhoi. if Rafale hadnt won the Indian contract then they would have to close shop, thats why they were willing a Full Transfer of Technology to India…India got tech transfer because of the 120examples , thats a good bargaining chip. If we get Rafale it wouldn,t be more than 1 squadron 6 examples due to intial cost … that wouldn,t warrant the technology transfer

@analyst you are right, I also find it puzzling to swallow the idea that the Su-30 chewed a whole crane bird got Indigestion and finally crash…. Su-30,Mig29 and most latest fighter (including the YAk-130)are fitted with a FOD mesh/wire grid on air intakes to preventing the ingress of foreign matter into the engines during landing and take-off’s.

@Countersniper there were other luo Naval Maj. Gen before Major Gen Awita; Maj Gen S Suero, Maj Gen Onyango http://www.ndc.go.ke/Alumni1999.php Onyango was a major general when the fomer CGS. Gen. Kibwana was Maj.Gen and Navy Commander

don,t forget the army Major General George Agoi the Gen. who ran the show during the Nairobi US embassy bombing..

Fc-1 fan club; lol!

FC-1 will receive the Ukrainian AI-222-25F engine. The engine that also powers the L-15 and the Yak-130/131. a good way forward for engineering, training and logistics

Guest Thu Apr 12 2012, 22:57

[b]rwigi[/b] wrote:

Where are we as far as this is concerned?
East African Standby Brigade

@''Hawk''-Despite the spotlight shifting to OLN and AMISOM, I reckon this Concept is purring along just fine – in preps and planning, will take a while to fully operationalize…….it really is akin to a skeleton/compact Unified-Force HQ which has dedicated ‘’Phantom’’ Corps quickly activated, drawing from standing National Armies. Primary challenge is to engender Interoperability of contributing EAC Militaries through such maneno as Standardization of Basic & Advanced Training modules, Tactical & Strategic doctrine / philosophy, reflective Formation Structure, Command/Control Matrix, Equipment and Ordnance. The disastrous British-French ''Army-of-Rhine'' post-WWII as a beautiful case-study of what to-do-first.

mekatilili Fri Apr 13 2012, 00:14

MWAURA Fri Apr 13 2012, 11:24

[quote="mbs"]

cylon wrote:
mbs wrote:
Olekoima wrote:Okay guys, as soon as you are through with this rivalry let's pay a little attention to the grave developments up north. We will all be sucked in for sure. What do you say?

Well not to worry Olekomia Goss wants to really stir the Hornets nest doesnt it well thats a shame. Like ON said that if they keep poking at Albashir and he attacks them with his full might we wont be able to help them they are in that ship by themselves, But kenya has a plan B they would have a diplomactic metting with Salvir Kiir and Mr odinga and they will discuss/ Mediate peace between the two countries and if that fails then Uganda and kenya better have atleast a squadron of attack jets on standby. Also i believe the Aggressors is not the SS army but the uncontrollable rebels that ponder and attack sudan outposts on the behalf of shady government ministers. and thts my 3cent opinion.

It is not in our interest to defend SS unless Khartoum decides to invade SS. SS problem is that they are being greedy with the Natural Resources to an extend they are grabbing Oil Sites that are in Sudans Territory ! I know Sudan is not an Angel, but give them breathing Space to hang themselves ! We need The 'likes' of Al Bashir to run Sudan so that we can make some dollar from the pot in SS. If we intervene militarily in the conflict heavens forbid, and for some reason we get a democratic State in Northern Sudan, then we will all loose alot of money !

Quite frankly GOSS command and control isn't what it should be. Having seen them up close I know first hand they still have miles to go before being they're a modern disciplined force with established structures. Honestly they're an ethnic militia/guerrilla force/semi gendarmerie/unofficial SPLA youth wing (remember the old Kanu youth wing?). Even now the barracks are divided along tribal lines,dinkas here,Nuers and Shilluks there. They're united by a massive grievance against the northerners whose depths can be guessed when you observe mango collecting in SS. You'll notice nobody ever climbs the tree. Reason? During the war when they were often the only source of food many were booby trapped by Northern auxilliaries. There's a seething anger against the Arabs going back over a century.

Thus it is that I find this KDF vs. UPDF melee unproductive. Though at
some point I was very much a part of it myself, I have chosen to outgrow
it. What I have seen and learnt on this forum has contributed to that
in no insignificant manner.

Its time to be honest. Who in this region has fought in the DRC,CAR,Somalia,Sudan and had armed exchanges with Rwanda and Moi's Kenya which were nearly repeated recently over utterly useless sabre rattling ? Honestly if an M7 mentality ruled here the KN would have attacked Madagascar!! Point being M7's history makes him a man to watch-that's all.

countersniper Fri Apr 13 2012, 11:28

ktn are not saying how they obtained that over 8 minute video.

botom line is every car truck,bus,bicycle,mkokoteni,donkey,horse,and human being traveling from suspected terror linked areas must be properly searched over and over.

any buses carrying people must be searched prior to boarding and no mid journey passengers to be allowed to get on.
Poice and AP must do their job properly.

mbs Fri Apr 13 2012, 12:25

Is South Sudan internally stable ? as Mwaura said, they are only united for now as a result of the big bad wolf Al Bashir and his 40 thieves. What happens after Al Bashir is eliminated from the equation ? Will they start infighting now on a grander scale ie lou Nuer vs Murle ? or will they start the Ilemi Triangle maneno ? South Sudan is still an infant baby that needs 'Al Bashir and the 40 thieves' to bond/glue the country together until they are ready to govern all the factions in South Sudan otherwise someone will do that for them by becoming a sattelite country to Kenyana.

MOOZALENDO Fri Apr 13 2012, 12:59

Mig 29's totally annihilated. Wow.

MOOZALENDO Fri Apr 13 2012, 13:05

Risasi wrote:@ Mr. Olekoima You guys are at it again? Those of you whom we were together at the Chronicles-… we don,t hate each other . it’s a matter of putting ideas and planning at the right perspective. Nothing demeaning or character assignation just part of the paycheck.

@mbs This is the bit that I dont get, why the F-15 and not the Rafale or even the Sukhoi. if Rafale hadnt won the Indian contract then they would have to close shop, thats why they were willing a Full Transfer of Technology to India…India got tech transfer because of the 120examples , thats a good bargaining chip. If we get Rafale it wouldn,t be more than 1 squadron 6 examples due to intial cost … that wouldn,t warrant the technology transfer

@analyst you are right, I also find it puzzling to swallow the idea that the Su-30 chewed a whole crane bird got Indigestion and finally crash…. Su-30,Mig29 and most latest fighter (including the YAk-130)are fitted with a FOD mesh/wire grid on air intakes to preventing the ingress of foreign matter into the engines during landing and take-off’s.

@Countersniper there were other luo Naval Maj. Gen before Major Gen Awita; Maj Gen S Suero, Maj Gen Onyango http://www.ndc.go.ke/Alumni1999.php Onyango was a major general when the fomer CGS. Gen. Kibwana was Maj.Gen and Navy Commander

don,t forget the army Major General George Agoi the Gen. who ran the show during the Nairobi US embassy bombing..

I thought Major Gen. Agoi was from Vihiga?

Fc-1 fan club;

FC-1 will receive the Ukrainian AI-222-25F engine. The engine that also powers the L-15 and the Yak-130/131. a good way forward for engineering, training and logistics

aggressor one Fri Apr 13 2012, 13:38

mbs wrote:Is South Sudan internally stable ? as Mwaura said, they are only united for now as a result of the big bad wolf Al Bashir and his 40 thieves. What happens after Al Bashir is eliminated from the equation ? Will they start infighting now on a grander scale ie lou Nuer vs Murle ? or will they start the Ilemi Triangle maneno ? South Sudan is still an infant baby that needs 'Al Bashir and the 40 thieves' to bond/glue the country together until they are ready to govern all the factions in South Sudan otherwise someone will do that for them by becoming a sattelite country to Kenyana.

I have been to SS recently and i saw a lot of 'hot water' waiting to 'pour' over the entire region. For starters, most of the population do not appreciate the role played by regional countries like Ug, Kenya, Ethiopia etc to bring them were they are. Harrassment of so called 'foreigners' is done even in broad day light, it is easy to be killed in Juba or any other place because you are a foreigner and no body cares. Foreign registered vehicles are grabbed and recovering them is a big problem and so many other abuses... These abuses are blowing over into border areas, with armed SS soldiers attacking parts of Moyo in Uganda and claiming them last week, previously, they had the audacity to even take hostage a group of Ugandan MPs!

And yet, as the GOSS army stands now, without the support of regional armies it cannot stand a full blown war against the Sudan. This is why somebody has to talk some sense in the minds of the GOSS.

countersniper Fri Apr 13 2012, 13:51

major general AGOI was or is luhya from maragoli subtribe . he enjoys hanging out at kakamega golf club to date whenever he is in town.
major general Suero a luo..oops i overlooked this one and General onyango.. too my apologies..
Anyway while as i indicated before ,the first luo service commander in kenya was major general Pastaur Awita,the navy commander who was replaced by the architect of the doomed scandal ridden kdf Spanish naval vessell purchase the JASIRI major general mwathethe,who is now effectively the deputy CGS of kenya defence forces.
incidentally unconfirmed rumors/stories were rife at one time that general Agoi was saved from possible court martial by old man moi himself after there were allegations he misappropriated over 200 million kshs during the 1998 bomb blast maneno.
it was said moi always preferred not to cause undue tensions in top ranks in the military and he was at one heard saying "mimi nilijua baba ya hii kijana kwa miaka mingi sana..wachaneni nayeye"
apparently moi was at one time close to mzee AGOI some years ago.
..but offcourse..during the next defence council meeting to discuss postings and promotions,..GENERAL agoi was quietly pushed out.

countersniper Fri Apr 13 2012, 13:59

MOOZALENDO wrote:Mig 29's totally annihilated. Wow.

that is why F15 Have never been lost to enemy hostile action in modern times ,only unexplained crushes have brought these birds down.
an F15 with all the support infrastructures and good pilot is a deadly versatile aircraft...hence the reason it will remain one the the many major weapons in the USA main attack aircraft's until well beyond year 2025

Guest Fri Apr 13 2012, 17:02

ole Nkarei wrote:
[b]rwigi[/b] wrote:

Where are we as far as this is concerned?
East African Standby Brigade

@''Hawk''-Despite the spotlight shifting to OLN and AMISOM, I reckon this Concept is purring along just fine – in preps and planning, will take a while to fully operationalize…….it really is akin to a skeleton/compact Unified-Force HQ which has dedicated ‘’Phantom’’ Corps quickly activated, drawing from standing National Armies. Primary challenge is to engender Interoperability of contributing EAC Militaries through such maneno as Standardization of Basic & Advanced Training modules, Tactical & Strategic doctrine / philosophy, reflective Formation Structure, Command/Control Matrix, Equipment and Ordnance. The disastrous British-French ''Army-of-Rhine'' post-WWII as a beautiful case-study of what to-do-first.

Thanks for that ON. I gather it may not be a very easy thing to pull off with the suspicion of some players against others. Who will be in charge of who w/o the other feeling looked down upon? The current re-hatting in Somalia to form a joint Amisom force will offer vital lessons and potential challenges...some are already playing out. Holding briefings or not,etc.

Batian Fri Apr 13 2012, 17:24

[quote="mbs"]

cylon wrote:
mbs wrote:
Olekoima wrote:Okay guys, as soon as you are through with this rivalry let's pay a little attention to the grave developments up north. We will all be sucked in for sure. What do you say?

Well not to worry Olekomia Goss wants to really stir the Hornets nest doesnt it well thats a shame. Like ON said that if they keep poking at Albashir and he attacks them with his full might we wont be able to help them they are in that ship by themselves, But kenya has a plan B they would have a diplomactic metting with Salvir Kiir and Mr odinga and they will discuss/ Mediate peace between the two countries and if that fails then Uganda and kenya better have atleast a squadron of attack jets on standby. Also i believe the Aggressors is not the SS army but the uncontrollable rebels that ponder and attack sudan outposts on the behalf of shady government ministers. and thts my 3cent opinion.

It is not in our interest to defend SS unless Khartoum decides to invade SS. SS problem is that they are being greedy with the Natural Resources to an extend they are grabbing Oil Sites that are in Sudans Territory ! I know Sudan is not an Angel, but give them breathing Space to hang themselves ! We need The 'likes' of Al Bashir to run Sudan so that we can make some dollar from the pot in SS. If we intervene militarily in the conflict heavens forbid, and for some reason we get a democratic State in Northern Sudan, then we will all loose alot of money !

Hi guys,

my 3 cents on the SS vs Khartoum issue is that it has just knocked too early and It would be untimely for Kenya or Uganda, to calculate an offensive against the conflict. SS is crying foul against the AU and the UN for their reluctance, and the fact that no one from those organizations, is willing to command those controlling militants from the north to put a halt on their activities. I do not understand how hundred Rwandan soldiers would bolster security at the border, but SS is calling on IGAD to foresee the peace agreement workable. There are three major factors that would make KDF/UG inquisitions between Kiir and Khartoum almost impossible.

........First, with regards to timing, the political climate in the country/Kenya is volatile, and unstable politicians are fumbling in trying to run a coalition government. In the event SS vs karthoum ceasefire fails to materialize, we would see an influx of Sudanese refugees and an increased number of international media detractors heaping pressure at government on what and how things needs to be done.

.......second, there has already been an insurrection of Alshabaab propaganda, and also

........Third, Strained diplomatic relations between UK and kenya, and the forthcoming US presidential campaign both of which politically are directly impacted by events happening in the horn. I am Suggesting that Kenya to watch as events unfold until the it has passed this phases.

MWAURA Fri Apr 13 2012, 19:19

mbs wrote:Is South Sudan internally stable ? as Mwaura said, they are only united for now as a result of the big bad wolf Al Bashir and his 40 thieves. What happens after Al Bashir is eliminated from the equation ? Will they start infighting now on a grander scale ie lou Nuer vs Murle ? or will they start the Ilemi Triangle maneno ? South Sudan is still an infant baby that needs 'Al Bashir and the 40 thieves' to bond/glue the country together until they are ready to govern all the factions in South Sudan otherwise someone will do that for them by becoming a sattelite country to Kenyana.

Not only that but a very serious land and property issue which had its roots in the war. Contrary to what the majority think most Dinka were actually comfortable on the sidelines. With roots in the drier semi deserts of Wau,Rumbek and Bor far from the centers of conflict they had to be coaxed into active resistance. Garang did this by promising potential fighters post uhuru goodies in the form of resettlement in the wetter regions of the southern savannas of Bahr el Jabal especially Yei and Juba and smaller nearby satellite settlements. Trouble was the land already belonged to Kakwas,Madis,a few Alur and scattered Lugbara-the last 2 are closer to the UG border.
I remember in Yei,a Madi lady bitterly describe how upon her return she found Dinkas had taken up residence in her hotel. Since they controlled the military police which has precedence over the civilian cops she had to watch the ongoing deprivation of her livelihood in silence. A Zande from jungle Yambio in the west Equatoria state hundreds of kms away from ,narrated how hordes of Dinka silently took over abandoned properties beginning in 2001. A year later a determined peaceful Zande ouster ended their 'occupation.'
These then are the unresolved issues on top of their status as a newly independent 4th world country with dire human statistics,no discernible skill sets and oil that is found,drilled,transported ,piped,refined and marketed by others. Truly,a Herculean job awaits Kiir. IMO opinion Garang maybe had the makings of such a leader ,not least being his enormous personal stature among the majority of Southerners and a basic idea of geopolitics- a knowledge of the way the world works,something totally lacking in the overwhelming majority of the SPLA rank and file.
Before any serious bilateral defense agreements are even considered with the South,they must learn this lesson first lest we find ourselves bogged down in a never ending war sparked off by vengeful undisciplined non coms .

Guest Fri Apr 13 2012, 19:57

efrommers wrote:
Hi guys,

my 3 cents on the SS vs Khartoum issue is that it has just knocked too early and It would be untimely for Kenya or Uganda, to calculate an offensive against the conflict. SS is crying foul against the AU and the UN for their reluctance, and the fact that no one from those organizations, is willing to command those controlling militants from the north to put a halt on their activities. I do not understand how hundred Rwandan soldiers would bolster security at the border, but SS is calling on IGAD to foresee the peace agreement workable. There are three major factors that would make KDF/UG inquisitions between Kiir and Khartoum almost impossible.

........First, with regards to timing, the political climate in the country/Kenya is volatile, and unstable politicians are fumbling in trying to run a coalition government. In the event SS vs karthoum ceasefire fails to materialize, we would see an influx of Sudanese refugees and an increased number of international media detractors heaping pressure at government on what and how things needs to be done.

.......second, there has already been an insurrection of Alshabaab propaganda, and also

........Third, Strained diplomatic relations between UK and kenya, and the forthcoming US presidential campaign both of which politically are directly impacted by events happening in the horn. I am Suggesting that Kenya to watch as events unfold until the it has passed this phases.

@efrommers - fafanua kidogo, ndugu, sikwelewi viema unavyosema hapa.
The Border Skirmishes now threatening the Peace in the Sudan has commentaries here to some good detail, if you can peruse through earlier posts.

Also the Battalion of lightly equipped Rwandan Forces are not deployed on the Border with Sudan North, but 700km to the South, mostly likely for static security for UN Installations and Infrastructure. They have no ability to interfere one way or the other with the Border Skirmishes going on.

Competitive elective Politics the world over are volatile, Kenya's are no exception. Whether ours is more volatile than most is moot at this moment - I don't think it is.

Moreover, managing a Coalition is not akin to managing a Government, and despite the corruptible nature of our politics, the Institutions that comprise the Government are running and functional nonetheless.

AS or as some like calling them here, Al-kebab, is not a growing threat to East Africa, on the contrary it is a diminishing threat to East Africa.

As concerns relationships with the Brits, one must ask whether ''better relationships with the British'' must mean continued servitude under the same old thinly-veiled colonial regimen of a hundred years, or indeed mean a renegotiated relationship based on mutual respect and mutual advantage. If it is the former, I suggest that relationship with the Brits will get a lot worse before they get better and we must all be prepared for this - there is now much more at stake, and much greater rewards for which ever of the two sides takes precedence in this tussle.

Kenya and East Africa will & must make & take whatever decisions about this evolving threat to our peace that will be in our best short-and-long term collective interests, which only the most neutered Uncle Tom will pretend are necessarily at convergence with British and American interests. At this juncture, I cannot imagine that IGAD taking the side of GoSS in this conflict they have started and which runs contrary to the carefully painstakingly constructed conflict resolution matrix in IGAD /EAC.

cylon Sat Apr 14 2012, 00:51

Thanks to thika road KDF will now have a huge piece of super highway to march all the necessary equipment from kahawa barracks to uhuru park it will be a sight to see on jamhuri day. T-72s,Panhards, Vickers, Apc, Humvee's etc will be coming from Kahawa straight into nairobi for all kenyans to marvel on what their army has accomplished in somalia. I bet that will be the deadline before june 1(madraka day) the fighting in somalia will be completed and Chai motto(kismayo) will be taken by Amisom on a three prong approach.

Ole Sidai Sat Apr 14 2012, 01:23

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-17707977

It seems this young country has priorities wrong. They remind me of a country called Eritrea who after independent, they took up arms against their cousins over rocks(and nothing but rocks at Badme all the way to Salambesa). The rest is history!!

Ultimately,this is new challenge to Kenyana and how this conflicts is brougt to halt will depict Kenyana posture. Son of Nkerai,my 5 cents is guys like you and others within the region seduce chaps like Dr Cilino Iteng' and other SS intellectuals to beat drums of peace as opposed to this butchery. It is better to play defence than attack dog at this stage of growth. This baby should stop walking before crawing.

cylon Sat Apr 14 2012, 01:36

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I Remember seeing that analyst said that Egypt poses no threat to the East african region just yet but with water shortages happening in this region the nile river and its elixir will cause many problems if not checked here is a link explaining what i mean.
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/middle-east/egypt/120406/could-egypt-run-out-water-2025

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/middle-east/egypt/120406/video-ethiopia-claims-the-nile

I was thinking there are alot of D-3s, C-47s and DC-5s rotting away in many airfields in kenya they are not currently in use and i thought that if KDF could fix them up they could be converted to offshore patrol duty, or be turned in awacs, or be turned into very lethal gunships, or many many more configurations what do you think people.

Also we could use a bird like this in a few years http://www.airnews.co.za/march-2012/return-of-the-gunship.html

Sayaret matkal Sat Apr 14 2012, 02:55

@ syko dudus i'm right here, i preffer watching things from a safe distance, lurking in the shadows as it were.
im proud of the mighty kdf, great work done so far with OLN and the upgrades. im especially itching to see the Ka50 and Mi 28 in KDF colours. Any word on where kns Jasiri finally docked?

@ risasi the su 30 beats the eagle any day, its the numbers we are getting that tips the balance in our favour (assuming its the much rumoured 35)

Juba trying to assert her independence is a great thing but I certainly hope that they dont bite off more than they can chew. We cannot afford an all out war between the two Sudan, we stand to lose a lot especially with LAPPSET just taking off.

@ON, Analyst any hope the brewing conflict could be settled diplomaticly? massive troop movement towards Kordofan by SS and airstrikes from khartoum not a good sign. saw top ranking spla commander recently on aljazeera confidently stating that the south will not back down. oh, and they allegedly downed one of the Migs that has been carrying out the airstrikes

Btw this whose-thing-is-longer debate is getting old, everyone in this forum knows who the 'Firstbodi' is. he (or is it she?) doesnt roar from the mountaintop proclaiming her power and might, rather she slithers silently and slyly keeping everyone guessing what she is up to hehe as a forumer here frequently reminds us...

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