Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Standoff between al Shabaab commanders in Salagle village

30 May – Source: Bar-kulan

Reports from Middle Jubba region in Somalia indicate that there has been a major standoff between al Shabaab commanders in Salagle village. The disagreement reportedly occurred after senior al Shabaab officials appointed a new administration to replace the old one. Some of the members from the old administration have vehemently refused to accept the new one, thus splitting the group into two opposing sides....

Those guys! Their time expired a long time ago. BTW: Has the KDF signed the MoU now?
Comment from a Kenyan re the MoU:
Nyashinyangwivi Nahason
1 June 2012 5:31 AM
Hopefully this statement today will help calm my 7 year old son, riding at the back seat, who keeps nagging me, "are we there yet!" Its time we let our KDF deal with the situation in Somalia in a professional way without giving them unwarranted pressure. Let them fight the alshabab criminals in Somalia, the rest of us should just keep a watchful eyes on our streets and be aware of what is happening around us. Anything suspicious, we will not keep quiet; that is our fight. -
Source: http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000059116&story_title=KDF,-Africa-Union-set-to-sign-pact

I agree that: As KDF battles A.S. in Somalia the rest of us should keep watchful eyes on our streets and report anything suspicious because that is our part of the fight.

In the meantime a Kenyan family is please Commandos have rescued their daughter. https://youtu.be/nik5IBiZrOQ
How well are East African security forces prepared well for such rescue missions now that the need seems sure to increase.

They have done again, this time in Mombasa and wonders whether Kenyans are going to join Gitau Warigi in urging that: "Every time we get hit by an explosion, we must hit back harder. The bearded goons and their collaborators will quickly get the message".
http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/-/440808/1419156/-/item/1/-/sejl7w/-/index.html

Kenyan troops formally integrated into AU Somalia mission

ADDIS ABABA — Kenyan troops were integrated into the African Union's peacekeeping mission in Somalia (AMISOM), with Kenya's defence minister signing an agreement at AU headquarters Saturday.....



Source:http://www.keydmedia.net/en/news/article/kenyan_troops_integrated_into_au_somalia_mission/

Elsewhere I heard that: "Ethiopia has declared that she has been requested by the president of Somalia's Transitional Federal Government, and UN to take part in the capture of Kismayu."

mogen wrote:Kenyan troops formally integrated into AU Somalia mission

ADDIS ABABA — Kenyan troops were integrated into the African Union's peacekeeping mission in Somalia (AMISOM), with Kenya's defence minister signing an agreement at AU headquarters Saturday.....



Source:http://www.keydmedia.net/en/news/article/kenyan_troops_integrated_into_au_somalia_mission/

Elsewhere I heard that: "Ethiopia has declared that she has been requested by the president of Somalia's Transitional Federal Government, and UN to take part in the capture of Kismayu."

@ Mogen,

AS I analyzed Chief of defence forces Gen. Karangi addressing a press conference on Kisimayu, one could not fail noticing that he was hesitant to make the comments. It is as if he was made to say those comments since a seizure plan was already set in place. I could side with UGA-BOOTS here for a moment and I will give my reasons shortly.

The huge sacrifice that they committed at liberating Mogadishu. Burundi were led to a trap that took a big number of their soldiers in a single offensive. Since KDF operations has created the needed break-through in Somalia and peace efforts, UN has to come and spoil the party. It is UN that revoked their policy on states bordering conflict areas to engage in incursion/peace keeping efforts, a move which enabled Kenya to cross borders. It seems that the KDF has to salimu amri without protestation.

If Gen. Karangi says that a slice of kisimayu and its capture builds sense of pride for our boys, it would be understandable if UN/AU mission spoils the kenyan party to involve Burundi UGA-boots and ENDF. The Ethiopian prime minister was quoted saying, it wouldn't be hard for them to capture Kisimayu since they had liberated most of central Somalia.

ENDF aggressive military operations had proved to be successful in central somalia since AS was under pressure. So ENDF feel their operations was incisive and could have worked even if KDF/AMISOM were not in the theater.

The issue here is not whose military operation was key and effective, each had their own time to seize specific towns without a specific time-frame. let us not lose hope. On a positive note, the move by AU/UN might be important for the region and those interested in trying to come up with a regional military policy.

I read a story in The Standard and couldn't help but laugh at some of the claims. Ati;

"The Kenya strategy has been hailed as key to minimising casualty levels while at the same time, inflicting heavy losses on the terror group. So far, Kenya has lost seven soldiers (minus those who died in accidents) compared to the more than 2,000 Uganda and Burundi have lost. Save for Kenya, none of the countries involved in the Somali mission own fighter jets, military experts on the front-line say.

Uganda is said to have ordered one, but does not have qualified fighter pilots."

I don't know where people get these figures, when not more than 195 AMISOM troops have died in all, including KDF casualties. But such skewed 'facts' make for good reading when addressed to people who have no access to the truth. No quotes, no attributions just lazy journalism!

As for the fighter planes, we have nothing to prove to anyone, otherwise we would at least bring the MiG21s for the sake of putting up a show.

BTW, what happened to the usual flypast on Madaraka Day. KDF has not deployed all its air assets in Somalia, or has it?

Spartan wrote:.....as for the fighter planes, we have nothing to prove to anyone, otherwise we would at least bring the MiG21s for the sake of putting up a show.

BTW, what happened to the usual flypast on Madaraka Day. KDF has not deployed all its air assets in Somalia, or has it?

@Spartan – it would be helpful if you had highlighted those ‘humorous’’ claims you found in the offending Newspaper article. Btw, I too was kitu uncomfortable with some of it. But not a cent has been reimbursed thus far by the AU/UNSC for KDF Ops in Somalia. Kenya has not unlimited funding nor unlimited needs for funding. Consequently, keeping the Madaraka Celebrations low-key resonates well with our People. So, no call for your counter-battery fire, brother.

And where would your UPDF/AF base those Mig21 from, with UGABAG, eh? Entebbe ,Wajir, Mogadishu? Eh baana!! We keep the chit-chat on our War Dead out of this forum, I beg, I beg O?

@Efrommers – my thoughts exactly, bro. May I however point out that OLN was not launched upon revocation of the UNSC Caveat on Neighboring Countries Combats Troops into Somalia, but before. We invoked a UN Charter proviso that allows ‘hot-pursuit’’ across borders to neutralize clear and present national threats – Sammy has popularized usage of this intrusion piece of legislation. As concerns Kismayu, may I request you take another look at my earlier comment on this matter – taking Kismayu ought not create an unending state of instability in Somalia; which it will if the acute nationalistic sensibilities of Ethiopia, Uganda and Kenya on Somalia do not bring caution to the exercise. Even the Ugandans have created a critical loyal following in the Somali Body-politics. As has Ethiopia with the AWSJ, Kenya with Ras Kaboni and AZANIA. So, for us to break away from the intransigence of Tanzania that has so limited our penetration of COMESA, and to effectively pivot East Africa towards the Horn of Africa, we need to close this Somali Theatre with finality this year.

ole nkarei.... i agree with your point ..but i beg to add that if these miscreants make good their threat to carry out a major attack in Kenya soon...then that will be Kenyans pearl harbor moment.
The Americans after that deadly attack rounded up all Japanese looking men and women and put them in camps..dark days indeed..that led to the only use of an atomic weapon by man against man in 1945.
question is how far can we go to stop this thugs killing our men and children and economy/?[/quote]

There has never been a better placed question by our security officials, this forum, and our criminal investigators than this rationale by countersniper.....and i wonder how many intelligence and CID officers have the brain to reason to that extent...

Am sure such reasoning and analytic culture is not present in the current Kenyan police and intelligence service hence the consistent-gradual growth and development of terror threats further putting the lives and integrity of Kenyans in dire need. Besides if there is such expertise, then it is in lower echelons that they cannot achieve desired results since they are looked down on. (exempting KDF from the scenario)

I think this one of the best footage of the front-lines the Media has given us since the operation started KUDOS to KDF good job guys

And this photo of KDF troops cheered on by Afmadow residents is great [mostly women and children]:


Some unpalatable stuff in an article in today's Daily Nation:Why Kismayu remains ultimate war prize

http://www.nation.co.ke/News/Why+Kismayu+remains+ultimate+war+prize+/-/1056/1419940/-/faxdkn/-/index.html

And this: "...There are reports that Ethiopian troops are ready to launch an assault on the strategic town of Kismayo, the ultimate target of Kenyan troops..."
http://www.hiiraan.com/news4/2012/May/24342/ethiopia_undecided_on_storming_key_somali_town.aspx

Analyst wrote:
There has never been a better placed question by our security officials, this forum, and our criminal investigators than this rationale by countersniper.....and i wonder how many intelligence and CID officers have the brain to reason to that extent...

Am sure such reasoning and analytic culture is not present in the current Kenyan police and intelligence service hence the consistent-gradual growth and development of terror threats further putting the lives and integrity of Kenyans in dire need. Besides if there is such expertise, then it is in lower echelons that they cannot achieve desired results since they are looked down on. (exempting KDF from the scenario)

@Analyst – I disagree with your prescriptive advice that Kenya should demonize and ostracize a sizeable and vital part of our Population (with justifiable historical grievances against the ‘’Collective’’ called Kenya)in efforts to weed out the deviants amongst us, bearing in mind that these anti-social elements not even exclusively from the Somali-Kenya demography. Like I said earlier, we have not reached that threat ‘’tipping-point’’ threshold at all, and will most probably never. This is a last resort type of thinking when your backs are to the Wall literally speaking. And should we ever reach that Threshold in Kenya, the battle against these violent anti-social elements will already have been lost.

You engender some discomfort with your condescending denigration of Homeland Security. I think that is subjective and absolutely unjust to collectively denounce a 100,000-member force as unintelligent and incompetent. Were you any factual in your criticism, German Ahmed Khalid Mueller wouldn’t have fled to Uganda. Let’s give some credit if it is due, mate.

ole Nkarei wrote:

Am sure such reasoning and analytic culture is not present in the current Kenyan police and intelligence service hence the consistent-gradual growth and development of terror threats further putting the lives and integrity of Kenyans in dire need. Besides if there is such expertise, then it is in lower echelons that they cannot achieve desired results since they are looked down on. (exempting KDF from the scenario)

@Analyst – I disagree with your prescriptive advice that Kenya should demonize and ostracize a sizeable and vital part of our Population (with justifiable historical grievances against the ‘’Collective’’ called Kenya)in efforts to weed out the deviants amongst us, bearing in mind that these anti-social elements not even exclusively from the Somali-Kenya demography. Like I said earlier, we have not reached that threat ‘’tipping-point’’ threshold at all, and will most probably never. This is a last resort type of thinking when your backs are to the Wall literally speaking. And should we ever reach that Threshold in Kenya, the battle against these violent anti-social elements will already have been lost.

You engender some discomfort with your condescending denigration of Homeland Security. I think that is subjective and absolutely unjust to collectively denounce a 100,000-member force as unintelligent and incompetent. Were you any factual in your criticism, German Ahmed Khalid Mueller wouldn’t have fled to Uganda. Let’s give some credit if it is due, mate.

[/quote]

With due respect sir (Ole Nkarei)

I beg to differ or two issues, with reference to NSIS and CID/Police force KE.

With your experience and knowledge in security issues, you will agree with me that most of the officers conscripted to the military are rather passionate and committed about serving as military officers. This is what makes KDF which you serve disciplined and rather focused in excelling per-se (the men serving KDF are self driven since they took up a career of their choice. They are specialists/experts in the field a reason why they are capable and always delivering desirable results both at the war front and at home)

The CID, NSIS, and the Police force lacks a committed echelon both from top to bottom of the command heirachy. The poor leadership and specialist credentials across the rank and fold of these vital institutions have a trickle down effect which is the 'lackluster' i mention quite often. Two, the passion that drove them to take up these careers is basically 'THE PAYROLL not the passion leading to poor commitment to the cause/motto of these institutions.

In my post (see above in red and slant), i mentioned that there might be experts but their rank in the fold might be looked down by the echelon of leadership in their institutions leading to draining of their energies on the gutter.

The other rationale about incompetence in these institutions is failure to understand their roles both academically and practically. In most dailies yesterday, NSIS was nearly exonerated but all those who did their opinion pieces were dead wrong. Regardless of how well NSIS might be informed they fail always to provide intelligence reliably besides doing their analysis properly.

Intelligence analysis is far much important than gathering the information. This stage of analysis remains as one aspect that brings national security breaches too often. Intelligence manuals are clear about the role of an intelligence institution.

(The NSIS, like all other intelligence organizations, is to gather and exploit secret information. It identifies conditions that threaten Kenya’s political, economic, and social stability. It subsequently develops opportunities and strategies to neutralize such threats.)

They do not even attempt to develop opportunities. Look at IntelCenter and how they managed to make their report on possible Al-Shabaab attack in 2-weeks?...(creating/developing strategies to neutralize such threats!!)

That's the truly profound...creating/developing strategies to neutralize such threats...

@Analyst -you have valid point (points, actually!!) and I do agree in general with the direction of your thought.

A hell of a lot could be done and must be done in forward-projection / preemption.

A lot of gaps must be plugged, and Intelligence must be aggressor-driven.

Consumption of Intelligence must be preemptive not reactive/detective.

We do have our job cut out for us all, it seems. But - we can and must do it!!

Thanks for clarification, mate.

ole Nkarei wrote:@Analyst -you have valid point (points, actually!!) and I do agree in general with the direction of your thought.

A hell of a lot could be done and must be done in forward-projection / preemption.

A lot of gaps must be plugged, and Intelligence must be aggressor-driven.

Consumption of Intelligence must be preemptive not reactive/detective.

We do have our job cut out for us all, it seems. But - we can and must do it!!

Thanks for clarification, mate.

Thank you sir

A serious security policy must be brought around to change current paradigms on Kenya Security policies.
NSIS should be remodeled to meet standards that reflect their role
Actually, NSIS is the Achilles foot here...with their poor performance in most cases and less aggressive approach to their responsibility, the police and CID are less effective hence this scenario of NATIONAL SECURITY BREACHES..

Analyst wrote:
A serious security policy must be brought around to change current paradigms on Kenya Security policies.
NSIS should be remodeled to meet standards that reflect their role
Actually, NSIS is the Achilles foot here...with their poor performance in most cases and less aggressive approach to their responsibility, the police and CID are less effective hence this scenario of NATIONAL SECURITY BREACHES...

No chain is stronger than its weakest link and this applies to NSIS and CID. However, like was the 9/11 case in the US, sometimes intelligence agencies gather way too much information that it takes a lot of time and skill to sift through it
usually with disastrous consequences. nevertheless, I must agree with you that professionalism in the NSIS and CID
must mirror or approximate the level seen in military intelligence then and only then shall we see a major change in the
way they operate. We will have less and less criminals escaping jail for lack of incriminating evidence. CCTV will
certainly help.

No doubt, our homeland security environment is only going to get trickier and more demanding. The security agents' commitment, professionalism/skill and technology will have to be higher/better than what we have now. The bashing
of security agencies [in our newspapers] in the wake of the recent terrorist activities is informed by frequent security
lapses. For instance, the fact that two wanted men attended a police station requesting assistance because they were
'in danger' and they are assisted by police to get a safe accommodation next to a police station is mind boggling. More
so, in an environment where security officers have been victims of terrorist activity!



People need to start taking their responsibilities more seriously.

hey god people..lets not misinterpret my point about the the actions possible if alshabab hit us again big..
the point is our internal security forces are letting east Africans down very big.

a good example..the kalita bus company ferries a terror suspect across borders and it takes more than a week for the owners to be brought to account..and even then the bus driver and conductor involved in the saga evade arrest and disappear.

the narration in today's daily nation about Kenyan police officers letting in contraband goods laden with weapons after being paid 3 Kenyan grand per track is very disturbing.

http://www.nation.co.ke/Features/DN2/How+KDF+captured+Afmadow+/-/957860/1420240/-/2wrsqpz/-/index.html

(In 2009, a group of men posing as businessmen hired a truck and
militiamen and made their way to Afmadow, an Al-Shabaab stronghold in
Somalia, to buy contraband sugar and bullets. Their plan was to
transport them across the border from the lawless nation to Kenya.
“We know that you will be troubled by Kenyan
officials at the border,” an Al-Shabaab commander told them as they
packed their wares. “They will need a bribe to let the sugar in. Worry
about the sugar, but leave the bullets problem to us.”
Assured, the militias packed the thousands of
illicit rounds of ammunition into the sugar sacks, then set off to look
for pistols, which they acquired at Sh6,000 apiece.
At the Kenyan border area of Dobley, they bribed
Administration Police officers with Sh3,000 for each truck that they let
in, then headed for the Liboi Military Camp.
What happened to the cargo after that remains a mystery, but the Kenyan soldier who regaled this story to DN2 in Afmadow last week was almost 100 per cent sure that it ended up in criminal hands.)
even though there are some developments are encouraging...
http://www.nation.co.ke/News/Police+arrest+Al+Shabaab+militant+in+border+ambush/-/1056/1420754/-/12q1agc/-/index.html
on another note i know that nearly about 40 percent of so called Kenyan CID OFFICERS are not there by merit but because of poor selective practices based on who knows who ....and another 20 percent are ex GSU paramilitary officers who get posted there after finishing field postings due to age or other factors.
..so we have a lethargic force that is deeply in old practices of unprofessional behaviors bordering on corruption.
can you imagine to this day and age we have no properly trained people in the police to deal with cyber crime?

countersniper wrote:hey god people..lets not misinterpret my point about the the actions possible if alshabab hit us again big..
the point is our internal security forces are letting east Africans down very big.

a good example..the kalita bus company ferries a terror suspect across borders and it takes more than a week for the owners to be brought to account..and even then the bus driver and conductor involved in the saga evade arrest and disappear.

the narration in today's daily nation about Kenyan police officers letting in contraband goods laden with weapons after being paid 3 Kenyan grand per track is very disturbing.

on another note i know that nearly about 55 percent of so called Kenyan CID OFFICERS are not there by merit but because of poor selective practices based on who knows who ....and another 20 percent are ex GSU paramilitary officers who get posted there after finishing field postings due to age or other factors.
..so we have a lethargic force that is deeply in old practices of unprofessional behaviors bordering on corruption.
can you imagine to this day and age we have no properly trained people in the police to deal with cyber crime?

People being promoted not on merit but on, who you know, and what favors can you give, and the biggest culprit is, someone who will not 'rock' the boat. Reforming the Police will not be easy since we cant just send everybody home today, and recruit tomorrow. It will have to start from Kiganjo with new recruits who want to 'serve' the people and not their pockets. Promotion structure should be clear, if you havent achieved it by a certain period, then you know you are not being promoted. Village idiots should not be recruited ie you would need a certain level of education to be considered and when selected, expected to further your education. the Police/AP are a big problem which the society needs to sort out ! I have watched enough CSI and others cop shows to confidently say that i can contain a crime scene, secure evidence which i have never seen our brothers bother with.

I dont see the naval men in action in more recent footages in Somalia. I wonder who is their PR man, to be seen is to be heard; If they start screaming more resources please, the taxpapers might say, where you there in Somalia ? we only saw Helicopters, IFV, APC and the G men. what am trying to say is they need to be more involvement of them in the Press Conference or something ! when laymen here Naval Boats bombarding the Al Shabab, they get mesmerized that we have Naval Boats in the first place that can do that. This Que goes to ON and men/ladies of Uniform, the ratio of dividing the loot between the AF, KN, KA was decided how and why and why hasnt it changed while how fighting conflicts are changing ?

Our Defence Pact with the land of beautiful girls, is it only in relation with Somalia or it applies to any nation ie Eritrea ? My beef is with the first question where I think the ratio disfavors the Navy whereas with the Kenyana Project, we would need a strong Naval Force.

I think stories such as the one below [in the Nation] are not helpful. They should be discouraged.

How KDF captured Afmadow
By NYAMBEGA GISESA
Monday, June 4 2012 at 14:56

After months of waiting, the Kenya Defence Forces struck last week after wearing down the Al-Shabaab militia group by keeping it waiting for months for a Kenyan attack

The attacking force was under three commanders: Lt Col Nyaga (the Commanding Officer (CO)), Brigadier General Ismail Sahardid of the Somali National Army (SNA) and Sheikh Ahmed Madobe, leader of Ras Kamboni Brigades (RKB), a warlord who has joined KDF in the war against Al-Shabaab..

.http://www.nation.co.ke/Features/DN2/How+KDF+captured+Afmadow+/-/957860/1420240/-/item/2/-/njvut7/-/index.html

am a civilian newbie here. been watching from the sides and have liked the discussions. Just been reading this story on the Daily Nation: 'How KDF captured Afmadow' and took note of these lines:

This ‘humid info’ was then carefully cross-checked with still
and recorded images from drones (unmanned aircraft) and clips of
movements captured from a light aircraft for surveillance flying about
six to seven kilometres above the ground. The drone observations started
about two and a half years ago.



Military intelligence officers in Nairobi and
Somalia analysed the data and estimated Afmadow’s population with an aim
of avoiding civilian deaths, or ‘collateral damage’.
Just are these the Kenyan or what? And when were they acquired?
the link is:http://www.nation.co.ke/Features/DN2/How+KDF+captured+Afmadow+/-/957860/1420240/-/item/1/-/njvut6/-/index.htm

Hi bullet man I one time visited FoB Msa officers Mess and in front of us were two F-5. They had red ribbons stripes on the side missile, the nose antenna and at almost all over the aircrafts.
I wonder what the ribbons were meant for, I did ask for fear the staff might question my curiosity. At around 6 evening the jets were warmed up and the pilots boarded (may be the bullet man) our host told us that the jets were on their way to the Somalia Theater and wouldn’t be back until past 10pm , I accounted that its was a 4 hours mission. Again I wonder 4hour for jet that fast i.e two hours back and forth from my basic geography that puts a operation as far as the Gulf of Aden or the furthest tip of Somalia. Can you please divulged without compromising security interests.

thanks

Balozi wrote:Hi bullet man I one time visited FoB Msa officers Mess and in front of us were two F-5. They had red ribbons stripes on the side missile, the nose antenna and at almost all over the aircrafts.
I wonder what the ribbons were meant for, I did ask for fear the staff might question my curiosity. At around 6 evening the jets were warmed up and the pilots boarded (may be the bullet man) our host told us that the jets were on their way to the Somalia Theater and wouldn’t be back until past 10pm , I accounted that its was a 4 hours mission. Again I wonder 4hour for jet that fast i.e two hours back and forth from my basic geography that puts a operation as far as the Gulf of Aden or the furthest tip of Somalia. Can you please divulged without compromising security interests.

thanks

@Balozi
Bulletman might explain the red ribbons but more than that I doubt. Those are probably Bulletmen's secrets. BTW: Haven't seen him here lately. Must be busy elsewhere on national duty.

Balozi wrote:Hi bullet man I one time visited FoB Msa officers Mess and in front of us were two F-5. They had red ribbons stripes on the side missile, the nose antenna and at almost all over the aircrafts.
I wonder what the ribbons were meant for, I did ask for fear the staff might question my curiosity. At around 6 evening the jets were warmed up and the pilots boarded (may be the bullet man) our host told us that the jets were on their way to the Somalia Theater and wouldn’t be back until past 10pm , I accounted that its was a 4 hours mission. Again I wonder 4hour for jet that fast i.e two hours back and forth from my basic geography that puts a operation as far as the Gulf of Aden or the furthest tip of Somalia. Can you please divulged without compromising security interests.

thanks

a fully armed F5 on a bombing mission has a one way operational range of between 400 to 900 kilometers,depending on the type of mission. eg carrying heavy bombs for ground attack interdiction is a much more taxing mission than lets say a mission just using air to air missiles for taking out air targets.
on a loiter search and destroy mission the radius is between 250 to 600 kilometers
BUT am no expert .The air boys may tell us more.. but i should safely say the safe operational range is around 250 nautical miles when fully armed with multiple weapons...which is around 4 to 5 hours maximum air time...AND I STILL STAND TO BE CORRECTED.

@mogen niko I do peep in but hadn’t found any thing to comment on lately. Been working out late now days, mogen? i see your posting time well pass midnight.

@somebody the K.N attack was on what were referred earlier as an AWACS station a look out point along the sea for the A.S. now that the ops is almost over bloggers should take time to revisit the posting made by the Men in fatigues pre the afmadow incursion to get the sense, the idea and the benefits ripped from the well studied and “delayed” ops. The ease, the speed, the ghost villages/green areas, minimal collateral damages and internal fights of the A.S during the incursion. The ops wasn’t planned one year ago as one suggested, but it incorporated clips/recco photos taken a year ago to distinguish suspicious modification made few months prior the raids.

I will pass the first question of balozi to a one Mr.Jasiri to answer and then I will conclude the final answers. i.e what are those red flags Balozi saw on those Jets.

Risasi wrote:@mogen niko I do peep in but hadn’t found any thing to comment on lately. Been working out late now days, mogen? i see your posting time well pass midnight.

@Bulletman
There is a reason for my latenight posting. will tell later. I see u are keeping your wingman [Jasiri] on his toes. Let us wait for his answer.

hey dantoz, seems we read the same piece today......drones? nice piece btw....assuring, just hope greediness won't spoil the kismayu tea

Risasi wrote:@mogen niko I do peep in but hadn’t found any thing to comment on lately. Been working out late now days, mogen? i see your posting time well pass midnight.

@somebody the K.N attack was on what were referred earlier as an AWACS station a look out point along the sea for the A.S. now that the ops is almost over bloggers should take time to revisit the posting made by the Men in fatigues pre the afmadow incursion to get the sense, the idea and the benefits ripped from the well studied and “delayed” ops. The ease, the speed, the ghost villages/green areas, minimal collateral damages and internal fights of the A.S during the incursion. The ops wasn’t planned one year ago as one suggested, but it incorporated clips/recco photos taken a year ago to distinguish suspicious modification made few months prior the raids.

I will pass the first question of balozi to a one Mr.Jasiri to answer and then I will conclude the final answers. i.e what are those red flags Balozi saw on those Jets.

i think my two cents indicate that seeing red flagged armaments strapped to the underbelly and wings of a standby jet fighter could mean to be a warning to all approaching that the armaments are primed and live for action . not sure but it makes sense.

i am hoping to find one of my friends who was a fully trained armaments technician on the Kenya air force F5 program ..he will help us on this maneno of red flags on bombs.
the last time i had contact he was on a training course in Germany.

countersniper wrote:

Balozi wrote:Hi bullet man I one time visited FoB Msa officers Mess and in front of us were two F-5. They had red ribbons stripes on the side missile, the nose antenna and at almost all over the aircrafts.
I wonder what the ribbons were meant for, I did ask for fear the staff might question my curiosity. At around 6 evening the jets were warmed up and the pilots boarded (may be the bullet man) our host told us that the jets were on their way to the Somalia Theater and wouldn’t be back until past 10pm , I accounted that its was a 4 hours mission. Again I wonder 4hour for jet that fast i.e two hours back and forth from my basic geography that puts a operation as far as the Gulf of Aden or the furthest tip of Somalia. Can you please divulged without compromising security interests.

thanks

a fully armed F5 on a bombing mission has a one way operational range of between 400 to 900 kilometers,depending on the type of mission. eg carrying heavy bombs for ground attack interdiction is a much more taxing mission than lets say a mission just using air to air missiles for taking out air targets.
on a loiter search and destroy mission the radius is between 250 to 600 kilometers
BUT am no expert .The air boys may tell us more.. but i should safely say the safe operational range is around 250 nautical miles when fully armed with multiple weapons...which is around 4 to 5 hours maximum air time...AND I STILL STAND TO BE CORRECTED.

Thanks for the answer Mr countersniper I also thought so but don,t you feel like 250nautical mile in 4hours is a bit to slow for the F-5. I mean take a living example man..Kenya Airways covers the same distance Nairobi -Msa in 45min one way.
Are the F-5 that slow? 4hrs? The same distance in 4 hours. We stayed at FoB msa until Kitu 8:30 – 9:00 and the jets hadn’t returned. I didn’t get time to sneak a friendly question at my host when we met weekends after and he confirmed yes the fighters did return after 10pm from the sorties

hey don't get the figures wrong balozi ..when it comes to fighter jets or any other air assets.,combat radius or operational range does not mean the speed it can fly but rather the overall area of effective combat use in all modes.

but if we are taking of speed and range..that is another kettle all together...for example...an F5 or HAWK taking part in a fly past on lets say jamuhuri day celebrations at uhuru park or nyayo stadium usually takes about FIVE to seven minutes to arrive from nanyuki air Base AFTER TAKE OFF.
SO THOSE PLANES YOU SAW and told that they will be back at ten does not mean they were slow.
it could be that they were on a patrol and loiter mission just covering a particular area of Kenyan airspace for that duration.
i reckon if one is to patrol the entire fringes of kenyan airspace along the borders..four hours is more than enough all round with refueling stages at some point.
the jets can take off mombasa, then head to sea ..fly along the kenyan coast...come back inland and land at wajir, then take off again head to nanyuki.. take off again for lokichogio . back again to eldoret, kisumu then Nairobi ..and finally head back to mombasa.
WHAT YOU should be aware is that in an interceptor mode.. the aim is usually to engage the enemy within five to ten minutes of the enemy intruder entering Kenyan airspace from any point on the map. my two cents....

Damn IT GUYS,,where is risasi or jasiri to help me out here..am an old dog..cant give all the answers i knew then and now...??
.least i be accused of plagiarism.
@balozi
the next time there is a fly past just check the timing..usually the air force or parade commander will signal the jets arrival five minutes before the last marching soldiers exits the stadium of main stand front view...you will then see the CinC and service commanders stand up plus the the wageni stand up and gaze skywards..
then boom the familiar noise of jet engines slicing the air soon after.
this is a usually well choreographed military precision with air control and ground control..you see we dont want the CinC WAITING FOR TOO LONG for the fly past...and the jets cant hung about in the air gulping precious fuel..so the whole thing must finish within fiften to 25 minutes as the jets land back to their home bases at nanyuki.

i would rule out loiter sorties or air interception mission along the Kenya border.
1. jets are to fast to spot any credible ground movements. Esp. old planes like F-5 whose radar can’t look down, so visual sighting of an enemy from the cockpit is almost impossible.
2. air interception is out of the question as Somalia doest have an air force and all the neighboring air force are on the side of KE in the Somalia theater.
3. so that leaves as with technical issues. Maybe the F-5 in the Somalia Theater were old ones and the air frame didn’t allow that kind of speedy maneuvers.
My to cents