Kenya Defence Force

The fighter-5 has not out lived its usefulness against modern fighters the Su30 included. brazil wouldn,t use it if it could stand for its name. once you know the Achilles heel of our enemy then you are as per. From our Ukrainian friends we have learned what the Su30 is and is not and I can assure you at this moment we can take down any Su30 piloted by a UPDF pilot.

wat so ever you guys do keep it high coz if you come less the 7000ft My ADC units will knock you out.

To all the Doubting Thomas’ here is the writing on the wall.
Jordan modified its F-5 to EM standards 3EM series were sold to Kenya and 4 to Brazil. see what avionics Radars etc were installed in them then compare it to the Mig29 or Su30.
click below and go to the “Upgrade/reduction of the Tiger fleet ” topic

http://home.eblcom.ch/f5enthusiast/AirForces/JordanAF.html

Future upgrade was done to the other F-5 before leaving to Kenya. (last paragraphs in the site)

@mjeshi mmoja uko tayari tumchape Gbagbo ivory coast.

Risasi# wrote:To all the Doubting Thomas’ here is the writing on the wall.
Jordan modified its F-5 to EM standards 3EM series were sold to Kenya and 4 to Brazil. see what avionics Radars etc were installed in them then compare it to the Mig29 or Su30.
click below and go to the “Upgrade/reduction of the Tiger fleet ” topic

http://home.eblcom.ch/f5enthusiast/AirForces/JordanAF.html

Future upgrade was done to the other F-5 before leaving to Kenya. (last paragraphs in the site)

@mjeshi mmoja uko tayari tumchape Gbagbo ivory coast.

Thanks Risasi, i was also searching for some link about the F-5EMs as i was sure i saw it somewhere. Mr flying Crane and Balozi i think this proves what Risasi has been saying all along. There is no need to rubbish things really without trying to verify. Not all of us post just for the sake of it we research somehow.

Olekoima wrote:

Risasi# wrote:To all the Doubting Thomas’ here is the writing on the wall.
Jordan modified its F-5 to EM standards 3EM series were sold to Kenya and 4 to Brazil. see what avionics Radars etc were installed in them then compare it to the Mig29 or Su30.
click below and go to the “Upgrade/reduction of the Tiger fleet ” topic

http://home.eblcom.ch/f5enthusiast/AirForces/JordanAF.html

Future upgrade was done to the other F-5 before leaving to Kenya. (last paragraphs in the site)

@mjeshi mmoja uko tayari tumchape Gbagbo ivory coast.

Thanks Risasi, i was also searching for some link about the F-5EMs as i was sure i saw it somewhere. Mr flying Crane and Balozi i think this proves what Risasi has been saying all along. There is no need to rubbish things really without trying to verify. Not all of us post just for the sake of it we research somehow.

Sorry Balozi, i misquoted you. It is Mzalendo i meant.

The only thing confirmed in the site is the Kenyan F-5 got

“technical assistance and maintenance services, painting of the aircrafts, installation of navigation and communication systems, packing/delivery and supply of spare parts as requested and training of 16 technicians at totalled USD 15.3m”

Communication radios, painting and navigation equipments dosn,t make a fighter lethal i.e a 4th generation fighter to much a Su30/Mig-29

As per wikipedia

Su-30MKK Performance

Maximum speed: Mach 2 (2,120 km/h) [8] (1,140 kn, 1,320 mph) at altitude
Range: 3,000 km [3] (1,600 nmi, 1,900 mi)
Service ceiling: 17,300 m (56,800 ft)
Rate of climb: > 305 m/s [4] (> 18,300 m/min [5])
Thrust/weight: 1.00
Takeoff run: 550 m (1,800 ft)

o Air-to-air missiles:
 R-73 short-range infrared-guided missiles
 R-27 medium-ranged semi-active radar- and infrared-guided missiles
 R-77E active radar-guided missiles
Avionics
• Zhuk-MS radar
• Sorbtsiya ECM pods


F-5E Tiger II Performance
• Maximum speed: 917 kn (1,060 mph, 1,700 km/h, Mach 1.6)
• Range: 760 nmi (870 mi, 1,405 km)
• Ferry range: 2,010 nmi (2,310 mi, 3,700 km[67])
• Service ceiling: 51,800 ft (15,800 m)
• Rate of climb: 34,400 ft/min (175 m/s)
• Lift-to-drag ratio: 10.0

Missiles:
o Air-to-air missile:
 4× AIM-9 Sidewinders or
 4× AIM-120 AMRAAMs

Avionics
Emerson Electric AN/APQ-153 radar on early batch of F-5E
Emerson Electric AN/APQ-159 radar on later production F-5E

compare the two spec. and you still belive the F-5 can come out a win?????????. your kuku crazy man

From the literature posted above it clear that:
performance
The Su30 is twice as faster Mach 2 then the F-5.
it can pull more G then an F-5 .
it can climb 2.5 faster then a F-5.

Avionics
the Su30 operates the Zhuk-MS radar able to concurrently track 10 targets, and engage four air targets at 15Okm BVR
The F-5 operates the AN/APQ-159 radar range of 20 nmi i.e 5Okm. No way close to the Zhuk radar.

Missiles
The F-5 can operate the araam but no sites suggest that Kenya has one.
But anyway in dog fights the Aim-9 sidewinder vs the R-73 are similar. So it all comes back to how good the plane is.
Its impossible with the above spec. that an F-5 can offer intimate danger to a Su-30

@ Flying Crane,

Admittedly, the SU-30 is a 4th generation fighter while the F-5 tiger II is a 3rd generation one, but with capacity for upgrade much like its competitor the MiG 21 fishbed although the former is much more flexible.
However in comparing the SU-30 and the F-5 tiger, which country's fighter jets do you have in mind? The nearest SU-30 is in Algeria while an older version ( the SU-27 ) is in Ethiopia. It is still a tall order for Uganda with her hand full MiG 21s to offer a credible challenge to the Kenya air force at the present moment. The Kenya air force is not only numerically superior, but also posses overwhelming firepower to obliterate Ugandan tiny air wing.
Until Uganda acquires the touted SU-30MK2s,her air wing can only play second fiddle at best. Even then, Kenya will have come up with sufficient counter measures. Just watch this space.
The Janes defense weekly magazine rate the Kenya air force as the largest and most professional in East and Central Africa. These are not my words find time to read them there.

More about the F-5 upgrades ( Jordanian/Kenyan):-

http://www.ausairpower.net/TE-Upgrades-94html

http://www.rockwellcollins.com/news/page10599.html

@olekoima. Don’t worry nitawa tengeneza hawa jamaa.

@ Crane You got it all mixed up man. The F-5 in you literature is an F-5E at the Northrop show room 2Oyre ago and not the Upgrade EM series.

7 F-5 were sold to Singapore to upgrade 23 F-5 with the APG-66T radar (confirmed) not APG-67 (F-20 radar which ceased in production)
Kenya bought 15 of those aircraft and the rest went to Brazil.
Therefore the radar in battle will be a APG-66T and not the AN/APQ-159 as you mentioned. The APG-66t is a Fighting falcon F-16 radar with BVR capabilities. Its similar to the Zhuk-MS in Ranges and performance. +150km 10 tracks 4 engaments.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/APG-66

with reference to engine performance i.e. climbing and run .That has been equalized with the introduction of the Head-Up Weapon Aiming Computer (HUDWAC) and the new version of the sidewinder “All Aspect Missile” (Google that out). all the F-5EM needs is an aim and a lock on the Su30, no matter how fast or position the Su30 is. The New AiM-9 can engage Head to Head targets. You don’t need to go behind the enemy in order to kill him. reduce the need for traditional Dogfighting methods which have advantages with bigger engines. No needs for vigorous chases and climbs.

I have been following the conversation at a distance, I feel in need to correct some postings. The F-5 from Jordan that were branded as the EM series are the ones with AN/APG-66T radar. Kenya got only 3 of them. Therefore its 3EM against 6 Su30MK. If Kenya had a large fleet of EM at 12 pieces then it would pose a threat against the neighboring Su.

Secondly with the F-5EM low endurances the Kenyan force should stick to a Defense minded Force rather then an Offense nature.

Thirdly the only way Kenya will stand to threat the Su is to have numerous FoB and scatter their fighters throughout the country, this will help when the Su30 will try to run in circle in order to drain fuel from the pursing F-5. The Su30 has a long endurance time.

Advice
The contingent plan will be to attack the Su30 from all direction. But again the F-5 should be of BvR capabilities.

Older plane i.e. F-5 upgrade are less reliable and prone to technical failure. The Engineering team and logistic team in Kenya should be at it best.

This are my personal observation based on my experiences.

BALTIC wrote:I have been following the conversation at a distance, I feel in need to correct some postings. The F-5 from Jordan that were branded as the EM series are the ones with AN/APG-66T radar. Kenya got only 3 of them. Therefore its 3EM against 6 Su30MK. If Kenya had a large fleet of EM at 12 pieces then it would pose a threat against the neighboring Su.

Secondly with the F-5EM low endurances the Kenyan force should stick to a Defense minded Force rather then an Offense nature.

Thirdly the only way Kenya will stand to threat the Su is to have numerous FoB and scatter their fighters throughout the country, this will help when the Su30 will try to run in circle in order to drain fuel from the pursing F-5. The Su30 has a long endurance time.

Advice
The contingent plan will be to attack the Su30 from all direction. But again the F-5 should be of BvR capabilities.

Older plane i.e. F-5 upgrade are less reliable and prone to technical failure. The Engineering team and logistic team in Kenya should be at it best.

This are my personal observation based on my experiences.

I agree with you in several aspects. However, you miss the point when you say Kenya's 3 F-5EMs will be up against 6 SU-30s. The question is where are the 6 Sukhois that you are talking about, i mean they have not been acquired yet. And indeed Kenya has a number of FOBs such Lokichogio, Marsabit, Mombasa etc.

I doubt the credibility of the all aspect missiles too

@ Olekoima no problem let them build castle in skies
@ Baltic. Thanks for the advice Baltic. Go through this site and get your answers

http://home.eblcom.ch/f5enthusiast/AirForces/JordanAF.html
The last paragraph states
“……….packing/delivery and supply of spare parts as requested and training of 16 technicians was announced in mid-2008; price totalled USD 15.3m…..”

From this paragraph it’s clear that the Kenya technical bench was also in mind when these birds were procured.
A supply of spare parts and 16 technicians trained what else do you need? Plus apart from the new avionic the other parts of the F-5 is very familiar to Kenya technicians. We have had the bird for 30 years.

The only way we will arrive to how many F-5 in Kenya have the BVR radar is by simple arithmetic, facts and history of each air forces.

From wiki 35 F-5 were in store. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Jordanian_Air_Force#Aircraft_Inventory
Out of this
7 were sold to Singapore to upgrade the remainder with newer radars.
In this
15 to Kenya
11 to Brazil
33. Total 2 unaccounted for.

The F-5EM had earlier been a upgrade by a British firm in 1985.
In 1993 23 tigers received the AN/Apg-66t and 12 didn’t.
Brazil F-5EM use the Grifo-F radar and not the AN/APG-66t.
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/fighter/f5/

it is therefore logic that brazil wouldn’t need the ones with the APG-66t radar as they have there own preferred radar the Italian Grifo. the 11 F-5 sold to brazil didn,t need to have the AN/APG-66T RADAR as they would get the Grifo radar as per brazil standard. Therefore base on circumstantial evidence, almost all that went to

i once saw the new F-5 they seem to have a funny looking nose . is this because of the new radrs installed?

Balozi wrote:i once saw the new F-5 they seem to have a funny looking nose . is this because of the new radrs installed?

The nose was enlarged to fit a larger radar

what abiut the ranges any news on them? i hear they are condacting sorties in somalia rather the somalia /kenya border

Hey guys mambo vipi ?
I can see they was a heavy exchange of fire in this sector. keep it up guys umoja ni nguvu. Plus some guys like mention earlier don’t reflect their mother countries wachokozi tuu. “Ikileta nyoko nyoko twanga yeye kabisa Mi’nyii” my Maasai drill instructor use to like that phase.


@ Balozi the Range force has finished training at Fort Benning US. Our rangers will be a counter terrorism and high speed operations force. They are official called the Range Strike Force (RSF).

@ Risasi back from the coast I am impressed on the data link upgrade on the F-5 and the Zw-9A. It’s a milestone in this region…. Update me on the new fighters if you have any news. Vipi air force I hear changes hapa na pale Col Gitahi the Airforce one pilot is also out??.
I was with some guys that were dismissed in that saga they say that CGS was very part and parcel of the Deal.i hear Major General Sasia went physical with the CGS? Hii kichini ya kikamba ita isha lini. Just because he wants an extention he is now playing a good guy.have some pictures from wanamaji wetu will post along the week otherwise niko poa.

Nothing much at the KAF normal retirements tuu. Gitahi went out with age nothing more, He left Airforce one and went to Egypt as a Military attaché. He flies the East african I belive, kutafuta masaa tuu we will soon hear him in KQ, bright man. Another Colonel (name forgotten) Prominent Puma Pilot ,Military attaché China who so the presiding of the Z-9 has also gone civilian. joined the Police force as Kenya police Flying wing commandant, complain about the uniform tuu but all is good. About Sasia’s commotions with the boss I also heard it. Lakini nione kando bwana out of mtandao.

Flamable stuff you guys @risasi, balozi...Someone seems to have taken over my blog name "JASIRI" so next you see Shujaa know he's a friendly

meant mjeshi mmoja

Bwana Jasiri karibu kwa mtandao. Its nice to see familiar names once again.You said some1 took over your call sign “jasiri” in this site? Just check again coz I see that your registered as a memeber in member list . If thats not you, then raise it up with the admin I will second you. Otherwise Karibu hapa uko nyumbani feel free.

@ balozi and friends here some clips on the ranger strike force at fort Benning

Wazee wazee kuna enda jeee since last year. Mi I was poaz kujibonda tuu hapa na pale. I can see kuna ma boyz wageni na wagotea welcome. Thanks mjeshi for the up date on the Rangers at least we know that we officially have a Special Ops battalion.

@ the guys in uniform Does the British army uses the same DPM as Kenya and is there a helicopter FOB in the Ngong hills?

Hey guyz! Just ran into this forum and thought I could join in and make my contribution. How do you go about uploading images in here?

@sisal makonge
Ya our camo is a copy of our masters. All working dresses are similar to UK forces. there is no FoB at Ngong but an athletic training center.

kiddo wrote:Hey guyz! Just ran into this forum and thought I could join in and make my contribution. How do you go about uploading images in here?

kiddo karibu kwa mjadala.i will contact the admin on you issue he will contact you thro, your "THE EAST AFRICAN EMAIL" check you inbox when you log in
@admin kindly do something the new member has a problem in upload his images

kiddo wrote:Hey guyz! Just ran into this forum and thought I could join in and make my contribution. How do you go about uploading images in here?

Thank you once again Mr. Kiddo for joining the discussion forum. To learn how to host or upload images or pictures go to the useful Hints topics in the main page or click the following link
https://eastafrican.forumotion.com/t13-useful-hints#260

Thanks guyz on letting me in on the know how of uploading images. Here are some pics of our rangers strike force.