Re: Uganda Peoples Defence Force (UPDF),

Spartan Sun Apr 07 2013, 11:58

Cycoh 'DUDUS' wrote:Be warned our Ugandan brothers, just Western Media at their thing. You should not be surprised if those US 100 SF troops start having affairs behind the curtains with Kony & co-buddies, a bloody proxy war! @Spartan, dissect the piece below for us Soldier. Hell, we don't want any trouble near EAC ditto EAC-Expanded.

http://www.monitor.co.ug/News/National/Uganda-could-degenerate-into-violence-next-year/-/688334/1741164/-/12f2lg8/-/index.html

All countries have a certain level of risk, but these reports have always been laughable. Actually, it's Kenya that has always been most at risk of 'becoming a failed state' according to these 'models' in the past, but look where you are now. I am not very big on academic models and reports telling me 'what is' when I can see with my own eyes. If you hear the west and Americans in particular, they have these models showing how China will overtake the US as the world's biggest economy in 20, 30 years (based on GDP). Yet the reality to us and everyone else is that China has already overtaken them, based on the shear scale of projects they are funding across the world (while at the same time lending to the Yankees).

Now, America having affairs with Kony, that's a bit of stretch buddy. They are capable of many things, but that's not one of them.

Guest Sun Apr 07 2013, 13:42

Such reports are political statements intended for Corporates/business consumption. A scaremongering tactic to influence the Costs of Venture Capital to manipulate the performances of Investor-conglomerates in target es Regions and Countries. In Uganda's case, the anticipated Corporate windfall from the expected Billion-Dollars Petro-chemical Industry and related infrastructural manenos. But Tallow Oil has used near similar unorthodox strategy to drive its share prices and reap billions even before a single bottle of crude oil from Uganda has been harvested. Fiat game in the shadowy Corporate world.

East Africa-expanded is one increasingly interlocked Region and we have learnt to draw the Boma hedge tightly around each other in the past year. Impossible that Uganda degenxrates into the chaos painted in that report without drawing EAC into it. Cannot happen. Will not happen. PERIoD.

Cycoh 'DUDUS' Sun Apr 07 2013, 14:39

@Spartan, Exactly what I have been optimising for as concerns the US quasi-unilateral stance on global matters Economy/Diplomacy/Defence ecetra. Chaps can even inter-weav facts about their location, population, ethinic-complex, hell even White house ain't located in Washington DC for crying out loud! Very Happy

And yes, I have unprecended faith in the Security of EAC, we have actually come a long way, seen these scenes everyday, Na kama kawaida, all hell breaks loose allover. Seems like we got the upper hand.
And don't put the Kony-US skeptic r/ship far fetched, M7 is overstaying, remember that. Stymie any slight undisciplined movements with speed & finality. We people share a destiny.

@ole Nkarei, Well understood, Btw, I don't see the same Corporates in our Western neighbour successively-manouvering such silly ambitions in Kenya, if it happened they have some.
Na tunagoja mambo mazuri come 9th, Your work here and Bulletman has been cut out already, And, it AIN'T a low-cut!

mambotupu Sat Apr 13 2013, 14:19

http://beegeagle.wordpress.com/2013/04/13/uganda-peoples-defense-force-in-us340-million-deal-for-100-units-of-t90s-main-battle-tanks/

Spartan Sun Apr 14 2013, 14:20

Cycoh 'DUDUS' wrote:And don't put the Kony-US skeptic r/ship far fetched, M7 is overstaying, remember that. Stymie any slight undisciplined movements with speed & finality. We people share a destiny.

M7 overstaying is the biz of Ugandans to sort out, not the Yankees. I feel insulted on their behalf for this improbable supposition you put forward - that they could turn and support Kony against Uganda just because M7 has 'overstayed'. On our part, nothing short of an invasion by powers that aren't from this region can cause regime change here. So anyone who finds the prospect of supporting rebel groups appealing enough, should go right ahead.

jasiri Sun Apr 14 2013, 18:31

@ Spartan, doing a study on the greater Kalenjin nation. without getting yourself into trouble, how would you describe the Sebei comrades in UPDF?

Spartan Mon Apr 15 2013, 08:41

jasiri wrote:@ Spartan, doing a study on the greater Kalenjin nation. without getting yourself into trouble, how would you describe the Sebei comrades in UPDF?

The ones I have seen and worked with, very professional guys, the kind you would want next to you on a battlefield when things are looking hopeless. All this despite the fact that their language is almost completely unintelligible to all other tribes in the country.

The complexity of the lingua reminds me of the Navajo Codetalkers, whose heroics were later immortalised in the movie 'Windtalkers' It's based on the historical fact that the Germans had broken into the radio communications of the allies, and since many Germans and Japanese knew English, decoding the messages became easy. The Navajo were native Americans whose language was so complex it was used to create the only code that wasn't broken in the entire war. Maybe one day Ke and Ug will use the Kalengins and Sebei simmilarly Laughing

Now bro, why send me into such murky waters?

Olekoima Mon Apr 15 2013, 09:52

Spartan wrote:
jasiri wrote:@ Spartan, doing a study on the greater Kalenjin nation. without getting yourself into trouble, how would you describe the Sebei comrades in UPDF?

The ones I have seen and worked with, very professional guys, the kind you would want next to you on a battlefield when things are looking hopeless. All this despite the fact that their language is almost completely unintelligible to all other tribes in the country.

The complexity of the lingua reminds me of the Navajo Codetalkers, whose heroics were later immortalised in the movie 'Windtalkers' It's based on the historical fact that the Germans had broken into the radio communications of the allies, and since many Germans and Japanese knew English, decoding the messages became easy. The Navajo were native Americans whose language was so complex it was used to create the only code that wasn't broken in the entire war. Maybe one day Ke and Ug will use the Kalengins and Sebei simmilarly

Now bro, why send me into such murky waters?

Point of correction@ Bro Spartan, Sebei are part of Kalenjin. They speak the Kalenjin dialect close to that of the Kenyan Sabaots who are also Kalenjin.

Spartan Mon Apr 15 2013, 10:17

Olekoima wrote:Point of correction@ Bro Spartan, Sebei are part of Kalenjin. They speak the Kalenjin dialect close to that of the Kenyan Sabaots who are also Kalenjin.

I meant that if Kenya and Ug faced off against a common enemy, we could use a Kalenjin signaler in Ke and a Sebei one in Ug to communicate in unbreakable code since they're only found in these two countries. Not that their dialects are different.

Olekoima Mon Apr 15 2013, 12:29

Spartan wrote:
Olekoima wrote:Point of correction@ Bro Spartan, Sebei are part of Kalenjin. They speak the Kalenjin dialect close to that of the Kenyan Sabaots who are also Kalenjin.

I meant that if Kenya and Ug faced off against a common enemy, we could use a Kalenjin signaler in Ke and a Sebei one in Ug to communicate in unbreakable code since they're only found in these two countries. Not that their dialects are different.

Sorry i missed the point. Very Happy

jasiri Mon Apr 15 2013, 18:48

Spartan wrote:
jasiri wrote:@ Spartan, doing a study on the greater Kalenjin nation. without getting yourself into trouble, how would you describe the Sebei comrades in UPDF?

The ones I have seen and worked with, very professional guys, the kind you would want next to you on a battlefield when things are looking hopeless. All this despite the fact that their language is almost completely unintelligible to all other tribes in the country.

The complexity of the lingua reminds me of the Navajo Codetalkers, whose heroics were later immortalised in the movie 'Windtalkers' It's based on the historical fact that the Germans had broken into the radio communications of the allies, and since many Germans and Japanese knew English, decoding the messages became easy. The Navajo were native Americans whose language was so complex it was used to create the only code that wasn't broken in the entire war. Maybe one day Ke and Ug will use the Kalengins and Sebei simmilarly

Now bro, why send me into such murky waters?

im doing a paper about cross border tribes of Kenya so i picked what to me was the easiest, the Kalenjin. One thing i've noticed popping up consistently is their apparent reliability in combat. I've only known this before from the stranglehold Kenya Kalenjins have had on military command in Kenya. It seems their story about being the warrior clan of ancient Egypt might be true after all.

Cycoh 'DUDUS' Mon Apr 15 2013, 22:50

Spartan wrote:M7 overstaying is the biz of Ugandans to sort out, not the Yankees. I feel insulted on their behalf for this improbable supposition you put forward - that they could turn and support Kony against Uganda just because M7 has 'overstayed'. On our part, nothing short of an invasion by powers that aren't from this region can cause regime change here. So anyone who finds the prospect of supporting rebel groups appealing enough, should go right ahead.

Unfortunately unintended @Spartan. Having different opinions on matters doesn't amount to insulting, Putting nationalistic vaque massages aside.

I have unprecended 'theoretical' Big respect for you Spartan, of which I'd be on the loosing end on-paper, if I once chanced to reciprocate. But it if you felt insulted, Apologies.
Peace.

Spartan Tue Apr 16 2013, 08:54

Cycoh 'DUDUS' wrote:Unfortunately unintended @Spartan. Having different opinions on matters doesn't amount to insulting, Putting nationalistic vaque massages aside....Peace.

I also apologise in case I used unusually nationalistic language. Peace bro.

Guest Tue Apr 16 2013, 11:54

Easy, fellas. This is a Military Blog Very Happy

! In any event, clearly no offense was intended and neither any taken.

@Spartan - coming your way, headed places east. Two nights in Kampala. Are you visible? Btw, whatever is going on with the Brigade in the CAR - holding positions or pulling out? Tanzania may not deploy into DRC with the NIF after all (unless it is with a our Stand-by Brigade)without some strenuous political / administrative opposition from the rest of us - might be a good idea to hedge with that Brigade for a while. What the hell is going on in that Hilly Capital of yours, aisseeii?

Spartan wrote:
Cycoh 'DUDUS' wrote:Unfortunately unintended @Spartan. Having different opinions on matters doesn't amount to insulting, Putting nationalistic vaque massages aside....Peace.

I also apologise in case I used unusually nationalistic language. Peace bro.

Spartan Tue Apr 16 2013, 16:10

ole Nkarei wrote:@Spartan - coming your way, headed places east. Two nights in Kampala. Are you visible? Btw, whatever is going on with the Brigade in the CAR - holding positions or pulling out? Tanzania may not deploy into DRC with the NIF after all (unless it is with a our Stand-by Brigade)without some strenuous political / administrative opposition from the rest of us - might be a good idea to hedge with that Brigade for a while. What the hell is going on in that Hilly Capital of yours, aisseeii?

Currently not visible, buddy. Bein tied down by some unofficial maneno. The NIF has its work cut out. Tz, I think, badly wanted to get on the regional action bandwagon, but they could have chosen a bad wagon to hitch the ride. But I see them deploying and possibly confronting the M23. The M23 don't have to 'defeat' it militarily for the skeptics to regain the initiative. All they have to do is neutralise 10 or so in one battle.

The whole NIF thing is aimed at M23 yet there are 24 or so negative forces in DRC (it's debatable whether M23 is more negative than say, FARDC). I hope it's a tactic aimed at making the other groups believe they are safe for now, a divide and conquer tactic of sorts.

mchoraji Tue Apr 16 2013, 16:36

Spartan wrote:
The whole NIF thing is aimed at M23 yet there are 24 or so negative forces in DRC (it's debatable whether M23 is more negative than say, FARDC). I hope it's a tactic aimed at making the other groups believe they are safe for now, a divide and conquer tactic of sorts.

TZ is hell-bent on sending it's forces to the DRC. it's permanent representative to the UN has today reiterated.he says the forces will be in theater next month. maybe it's as spartan says they badly want to join in the regional 'bad guy ass kicking business' will see how it puns out

jasiri Tue Apr 16 2013, 18:55

mchoraji wrote:
Spartan wrote:
The whole NIF thing is aimed at M23 yet there are 24 or so negative forces in DRC (it's debatable whether M23 is more negative than say, FARDC). I hope it's a tactic aimed at making the other groups believe they are safe for now, a divide and conquer tactic of sorts.

TZ is hell-bent on sending it's forces to the DRC. it's permanent representative to the UN has today reiterated.he says the forces will be in theater next month. maybe it's as spartan says they badly want to join in the regional 'bad guy ass kicking business' will see how it puns out

Does Tanzania have the capacity not only to fight in this but to lead it as well? I have a friend, a graduate of the 2010 class at KMA, he says the Kenyan comrades who went to Tz for training came back more confused than Eldoret servicemen. I genuinely fear for these Tanzanians. To me it seems the don't want to be the only big EAC country not to involve itself in peace enforcement.

Uzi Wed Apr 17 2013, 00:06

mchoraji wrote:
Spartan wrote:
The whole NIF thing is aimed at M23 yet there are 24 or so negative forces in DRC (it's debatable whether M23 is more negative than say, FARDC). I hope it's a tactic aimed at making the other groups believe they are safe for now, a divide and conquer tactic of sorts.

TZ is hell-bent on sending it's forces to the DRC. it's permanent representative to the UN has today reiterated.he says the forces will be in theater next month. maybe it's as spartan says they badly want to join in the regional 'bad guy ass kicking business' will see how it puns out

Having worked in Tz for a while i got used to same old bravado "how we decimated Amin". Its time they had a new reference to brag about.

Spartan Wed Apr 17 2013, 08:58

Uzi wrote:Having worked in Tz for a while i got used to same old bravado "how we decimated Amin". Its time they had a new reference to brag about.

The quick defeat of Amin by TPDF wouldn't have been possible without the direct participation of the 20,000 Ugandan armed exiles/factions like UNLF, FRONASA, Kikosi Malum etc. They knew the areas, the roads, the hills, the forests name it and their invaluable knowledge made sure that Amin was rapidly defeated. But our brothers to the south have never come around to admiting this fact.That's not to say it wouldn't have been possible, but rapidity in combat, (ole Nkarei Laughing

) shifts the initiative, momentum, propaganda, public support while having the reverse effect on the defeated forces. In his hasty retreat, the enemy further gifts you with everything he couldn't carry on himself, from tanks, planes, ammo etc. It's estimated Tz took nearly $300m worth of hardware from Uganda by 1980. That's why their demand for war reparations was politely turned down, and they quietly accepted.

In the same vein, neither Rwanda nor Uganda can claim to have single-handedly pushed Mobutu out of power. Actually, my personal opinion is that Rwanda paid the steepest price when their forward forces were cut off by a an equally experienced but better equipped Angolan army. I hear few of their guys ever made it home, let alone receive a burial. I don't know how they are now but in 1998 they were bad news, so much that Kabila's earlier intention to enlist Eduardo Dos Santos' help against the M23 was enough to get the Ole Man on long flights to Luanda, which led to the birth of the current ICGLR-led talks in Kampala.

That said, we are eternally grateful to Nyerere for his help (and Amin's buffoonery that helped provoke that angel of a man). Because of his help, now we're able to help others.

Meanwhile, Rwanda seems to have some friends in high places. First it was Tony Blair and Howard Buffet (son of you know which Buffet) pitching for them, now a foundation of Howard Buffet has come forward with an antidote to the UN Group of 'Experts' report. Does it do Uganda any harm? Not at all.

aggressor one Wed Apr 17 2013, 11:25

jasiri wrote:
mchoraji wrote:
Spartan wrote:
The whole NIF thing is aimed at M23 yet there are 24 or so negative forces in DRC (it's debatable whether M23 is more negative than say, FARDC). I hope it's a tactic aimed at making the other groups believe they are safe for now, a divide and conquer tactic of sorts.

TZ is hell-bent on sending it's forces to the DRC. it's permanent representative to the UN has today reiterated.he says the forces will be in theater next month. maybe it's as spartan says they badly want to join in the regional 'bad guy ass kicking business' will see how it puns out
Does Tanzania have the capacity not only to fight in this but to lead it as well? I have a friend, a graduate of the 2010 class at KMA, he says the Kenyan comrades who went to Tz for training came back more confused than Eldoret servicemen. I genuinely fear for these Tanzanians. To me it seems the don't want to be the only big EAC country not to involve itself in peace enforcement.

I think the deployment will be coming too soon, in a very dangerous theatre. Troops should have been reconditioned for what to expect for at least three months, just like we do with UGABAG here. With this quick deployment, certainly troops will fall.

aggressor one Wed Apr 17 2013, 11:37

Spartan wrote:
Uzi wrote:Having worked in Tz for a while i got used to same old bravado "how we decimated Amin". Its time they had a new reference to brag about.

The quick defeat of Amin by TPDF wouldn't have been possible without the direct participation of the 20,000 Ugandan armed exiles/factions like UNLF, FRONASA, Kikosi Malum etc. They knew the areas, the roads, the hills, the forests name it and their invaluable knowledge made sure that Amin was rapidly defeated. But our brothers to the south have never come around to admiting this fact.That's not to say it wouldn't have been possible, but rapidity in combat, (ole Nkarei ) shifts the initiative, momentum, propaganda, public support while having the reverse effect on the defeated forces. In his hasty retreat, the enemy further gifts you with everything he couldn't carry on himself, from tanks, planes, ammo etc. It's estimated Tz took nearly $300m worth of hardware from Uganda by 1980. That's why their demand for war reparations was politely turned down, and they quietly accepted.

In the same vein, neither Rwanda nor Uganda can claim to have single-handedly pushed Mobutu out of power. Actually, my personal opinion is that Rwanda paid the steepest price when their forward forces were cut off by a an equally experienced but better equipped Angolan army. I hear few of their guys ever made it home, let alone receive a burial. I don't know how they are now but in 1998 they were bad news, so much that Kabila's earlier intention to enlist Eduardo Dos Santos' help against the M23 was enough to get the Ole Man on long flights to Luanda, which led to the birth of the current ICGLR-led talks in Kampala.

That said, we are eternally grateful to Nyerere for his help (and Amin's buffoonery that helped provoke that angel of a man). Because of his help, now we're able to help others.

Meanwhile, Rwanda seems to have some friends in high places. First it was Tony Blair and Howard Buffet (son of you know which Buffet) pitching for them, now a foundation of Howard Buffet has come forward with an antidote to the UN Group of 'Experts' report. Does it do Uganda any harm? Not at all.

In addition, to what @Spartan has written here, the Uganda Army`s fighting formations at the time only existed on paper. Remember we had units like Suicide regiment, Simba etc but they lacked experienced command, since Amin had killed most of the old commanders and replaced them with his tribesmen and mainly Sudanese and Congolese. So when it came to battle, most of the foreigners took off with lots of property, leaving the their men alone.

But even then, in most of the face to face encounters that the two armies engaged in, TZ suffered the highest loss of lives. Brigadier Bernard Rwehururu who was a Major and one of the commanders in Amin`s army told me a story that happened in Ssembabule. He said that in one of the ambushes that his unit set, they killed so many Tz soldiers that he felt sorry for them!

Guest Wed Apr 17 2013, 12:00

Agreed with the UPDF Compliment on TEA. There is an unhealthy ''Me-too" with the Tanzanians. In a couple of days, I reckon we should have some inkling what the NIF is going to come against in terms of Political & Military Will of the M23. And I have always stated the TPDF is a proletariat Army of the pre-WWII Chinese Model - emphasis is population political indoctrination on a massive scale to allow for political hierarchical control of governance. Only one Army of this sort, The Soviet Red Army, has in the past Century ever conclusively vanquished an organized and determined enemy military force, at a terrible cost of an conservatively estimated 20 Million Soldiers dead in the space of five years of campaigning. TPDF will get their backsides kicked by the M23 if Mukenga has some silent moral encouragement support from 'some powers' in the EAC. Very Happy

Spartan Fri Apr 19 2013, 13:44

Aggressor One, which assault weapon is this with our boys? UPDF changed Somalia, but it also looks like Somalia is changing us.
Uganda Peoples Defence Force (UPDF), - Page 27 Home010pix

Uganda Peoples Defence Force (UPDF), - Page 27 Home010pix

Sierra Kilo Fri Apr 19 2013, 17:39

Spartan wrote:Aggressor One, which assault weapon is this with our boys? UPDF changed Somalia, but it also looks like Somalia is changing us.

Special Forces Command??

proud kenyan Fri Apr 19 2013, 17:55

Spartan wrote:Aggressor One, which assault weapon is this with our boys? UPDF changed Somalia, but it also looks like Somalia is changing us.

looks like an M4..am no expert,saw some KDF guys carry the same in pics from sector 2

Spartan Fri Apr 19 2013, 21:56

Sierra Kilo wrote:
Spartan wrote:Aggressor One, which assault weapon is this with our boys? UPDF changed Somalia, but it also looks like Somalia is changing us.
Special Forces Command??

I would bet may mama on them, this is definitely a crack unit, night vision goggles and all. The other guy with his back to the cam is KDF, going by his camo. This is by no means the beginning of the end of our love story with the AK, we have perfected the art of looking professional and bad with the AK47.

mchoraji Sat Apr 20 2013, 09:33

Spartan wrote:

I would bet may mama on them, this is definitely a crack unit, night vision goggles and all. The other guy with his back to the cam is KDF, going by his camo. This is by no means the beginning of the end of our love story with the AK, we have perfected the art of looking professional and bad with the AK47.[/quote]

Thought the only KDF guys in Sector 1 are at the HQ either as officers or their aides? are they involved in operations??
Then did the Siera leone contingent deploy & how are they jellying with their kenyan brothers?

aggressor one Sat Apr 20 2013, 20:56

Spartan wrote:
Sierra Kilo wrote:
Spartan wrote:Aggressor One, which assault weapon is this with our boys? UPDF changed Somalia, but it also looks like Somalia is changing us.
Special Forces Command??

I would bet may mama on them, this is definitely a crack unit, night vision goggles and all. The other guy with his back to the cam is KDF, going by his camo. This is by no means the beginning of the end of our love story with the AK, we have perfected the art of looking professional and bad with the AK47.

Special forces group, they are. There is almost a half Bn of these guys in Somalia. They have been engaged in quite many missions. Yes, that is a M-4, but they also have plenty of MP-5s for close hand combat. One of the major SFG engagement was to tackle al shabaab`s use of tunnels (they had woven them 'under' Mogadishu and used to move around them at night. They put their night visuals and close hand combat abilities to good use in the later stages of the battle for Moadishu.

Guest Mon Apr 22 2013, 11:54

mchoraji wrote:
Spartan wrote:

Thought the only KDF guys in Sector 1 are at the HQ either as officers or their aides? are they involved in operations??
Then did the Siera leone contingent deploy & how are they jellying with their kenyan brothers?

This was a UPDF Ops. Major Counter Insurgency/Terrorism and Intelligence Coup. And the results of it were displayed for review by Theatre Command in Crazy Town -as seen in the Picture. Those KDF/RSF chaps that were part of the Theatre Review Detachment (one seen in the Picture - very careful not to get his Face/Front Photographed!) are attached to the Theatre Ops-Plans that is under a KDF-Commanding-Officer.

Great job, Aggressor-One!

Sierra Leone integration? Remember, it is segregated Commands and very different Command-mandate. So far, so good. Smile

Olekoima Tue Apr 23 2013, 13:20

An interesting article, please read:-
http://www.independent.co.ug/cover-story/7682-uganda-sudan-enter-arms-race

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Uganda Peoples Defence Force (UPDF),