Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

jasiri wrote:@ Mjeshi Mmoja, this looks like something you would absolutely love. Beats uncle Woo's boat hands down. Packs a serious punch for such a small vessel. Ivan calls it the Buyan class OPV's for patrolling EEZ's and anti-piracy, smuggling fisheries...basically, Kenya Navy's daily job.

1 x 100 mm main gun
2 x 30 mm AK-630 or 1x40 A-215 "Grad-M" (id go for a mix of both. 2 grad equiped, 2 AK 630 equiped..who knows when an amphib op would need arty support?)
8 x SS-N-27 (Kalibr) AShM in 14UKSK VLS
1x4 3M-47 Gibka (Igla-1M)
2x1 14.5 mm, 3x1 7.62 mm

3 ships like this and even the South African won't dare cross into our sights.

WOLOLOLOAYEEE! That little thing has more firepower than most destroyers! That's truly an optimised combination of deckspace and firepower-only the Russians could have designed this babe. If there was a slightly bigger variant with a closed chopper deck it would be a great corvette. Bt,it seems to have an underwater exhaust sytem-great for heat dispersal.
Olekoima,I've just read that piece-ignore these monkeys! They're not worth a response.

Kobooz wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=Pp0Z1EafiWs
This must be conspiracy theory unless N. korea suddenly suffers an earth quake! Lets keep watching

Kobooz wrote:We need some regional decoding of this rather interesting topic. It is a scary possibility uncle sammy being able to fry our heads at will!

wrote:Earthquake hits China's Sichuan province

Earthquake which hit shortly after 8am local time strikes same area that was devastated in 2008

Associated Press in Beijing

• 
  guardian.co.uk,
  Saturday 20 April 2013 03.10 BST
  

A powerful earthquake jolted China's Sichuan province on Saturday, killing at least two people in the same area where a devastating quake struck five years ago.
The
Chinese government's seismological bureau and state-run television said
the quake hit shortly after 8am in Lushan county in the city of Ya'an,
home to China's famous pandas.
The news office for the Sichuan
provincial government said on its official microblog account that two
people were reported killed in Lushan and that two townships had
suffered severe damages.
The bureau initially measured the quake
at magnitude-7, while the US Geological Survey recorded it at
6.6-magnitude, powerful enough to cause severe damage. Its depth was
shallow, less than 8 miles (13kms), which could magnify the impact.
The Xinhua News Agency said that the quake rattled buildings in the provincial capital of Chengdu, 70 miles to the east.
The provincial news office said the quake was felt in neighbouring provinces.
The epicentre lies along the same Longmenshan fault where the devastating 7.9-magnitude quake struck in May 2008, leaving more than 90,000 people dead or missing and presumed dead.

Ole Sidai wrote:

proud kenyan wrote:now some guys decides he knows what the country needs to do:

http://www.nation.co.ke/Features/DN2/Lets-be-brave-and-cut-our-military-budget/-/957860/1754018/-/j9lfuoz/-/index.html

So let us cut the military budget. Not a judicious trim, not a light shearing of its fringes, but a proper disembowelling. Last year the bill from the military — boots, tank treads, and mortars included — stood at Sh64 billion.

All public expenditure should be justified. The army makes nothing and costs a fortune. It is a prime candidate for the chop. Its spending is ring-fenced and always ramped up. No other government can spend so much annually and not have anything to show for it.
Seriously, this ignorance is dangerous to not only KE national security but entire region! Is he aware of AMISOM and precisely why whole World had to deploy there? I suggest ON,Bulletman and other PR chaps seat him down to clean his cobwebs. It needs to be done quick enough before further contamination! He is dangerous.
Yes, to shrink budget is inevitable so do political salaries. Why not peg down political and government emoluments(except security services) to GDP and let it oscilates? How else can we gauge political leadership if not by growth in GDP? Shoulder to it should be new sources of revenue....expanding markets/regionalized economy. Alot can be done and will be done. However, security is paramount to economical growth/stability in our region. My 5 cents.
Go through the lists of management of government parastatals and corporations and you will see the title “Gen (Rtd)” fairly often. I have always wondered what talents career soldiers bring to these government parastatals. Perhaps they have some organisational acumen as a result of their time in the army that I miss. But why do private companies not snap them up after they hand over the epaulettes? Why is it that their acumen is only prized by companies whose board composition the government has a say in?

SERIOUSLY??? It takes decades of dedicated service with intense training/education both in national/international affairs to make it to a Gen. In my intake/134 cadets, 38 were graduates and the rest had University qualifications. This writer needs real education. Hope TEA members don't whine about it but locate him for some coffee....

Vitruvian wrote:What is actually dangerous is this absolute level of intolerance for civilian intellect in the oversight of military affairs, especially as expressed by a uniform on a KDF-sponsored forum ("Risasi's friend in America?" Really?), especially considering the "contamination" of society through the increasingly popular trend of military "participation" in civilian affairs, and especially considering the freedom of thought, freedom of speech and expression that no number of amendments to any number of instruments can ever take away again, whether or not the amendments are made after a lengthy parliamentary debate or after a tete-a-tete with the government printer.
Regardless of personal opinion, a rejoinder cannot be reduced to an ad hominem response lest it be mistaken for an abusive fallacy. And we have, throughout history, seen many a be-medalled man attempt that.
You shoot yourself in the foot, Ole Sidai.

Spartan wrote:

Vitruvian wrote:What is actually dangerous is this absolute level of intolerance for civilian intellect in the oversight of military affairs, especially as expressed by a uniform on a KDF-sponsored forum ("Risasi's friend in America?" Really?), especially considering the "contamination" of society through the increasingly popular trend of military "participation" in civilian affairs, and especially considering the freedom of thought, freedom of speech and expression that no number of amendments to any number of instruments can ever take away again, whether or not the amendments are made after a lengthy parliamentary debate or after a tete-a-tete with the government printer.
Regardless of personal opinion, a rejoinder cannot be reduced to an ad hominem response lest it be mistaken for an abusive fallacy. And we have, throughout history, seen many a be-medalled man attempt that.
You shoot yourself in the foot, Ole Sidai.

Buddy, ulikuwa wapi?. We miss your intellectual input here. That said, I think Kenya's defence expenditure usually means both internal security (police) expenditure and military while for other countries internal security expenditure is usually different from military expenditure.

Now, on civilian overlordship over the military, we all agree that's what supposed to be the case, at least that's what I and thousands of others were taught. However, the article seemed to suggest that the army is dispensable, and that peace can exist with minimal defence spending. That is liberal pacifism for lack of a better word. Even Switzerland, a peace-loving 'neutral' country spends $3bn a year on it's army. The problem with being weak or being perceived as such is that you invite bullies - Idi Amin was tempted to annex western Kenya because, at the time, the Uganda army was stronger than the Kenya army, at least equipment-wise.

Secondly, strong armies support foreign policy which is often converted into tenders and contracts. Kenya is a leader in this region, it can't afford to be seen to be carrying no 'stick'. Tanzania and South African companies will win DRC contracts as a result of their deployment of their troops there. It's therefore not true that armies only consume.

Kenyan military expenditure is 2% of GDP or thereabouts, a very healthy percentage. Why not tackle the 98% first. Real 'bravery' would be cutting the salaries of civil servants (the highest in the region) who don't put their lives on the line, who are in bed or bars by 10pm. Ama?

Lastly, civilian oversight is good and that's what the whole idea was from the beginning. But the army is a guarantor of the state and it has knowledge, skills, resources and the willingness to die for the rest of the country. They should be respected for that. So politicians and civil society organisations wanting to make a living and political points can not be allowed unlimited say on how the army is run.

Trimming army resources is tantamount to trimming the army, and trimming the army can only be done after assessing security needs of the country, which is the preserve of the army generals with the help of intelligence, or people privy to such info, like the C-i-C. Since the writer is none of the above, I posit that he isn't qualified to talk about what he was saying.

proud kenyan wrote:now some guys decides he knows what the country needs to do:

http://www.nation.co.ke/Features/DN2/Lets-be-brave-and-cut-our-military-budget/-/957860/1754018/-/j9lfuoz/-/index.html[/quote]

So let us cut the military budget. Not a judicious trim, not a light shearing of its fringes, but a proper disembowelling. Last year the bill from the military — boots, tank treads, and mortars included — stood at Sh64 billion.

All public expenditure should be justified. The army makes nothing and costs a fortune. It is a prime candidate for the chop. Its spending is ring-fenced and always ramped up. No other government can spend so much annually and not have anything to show for it.
Seriously, this ignorance is dangerous to not only KE national security but entire region! Is he aware of AMISOM and precisely why whole World had to deploy there? I suggest ON,Bulletman and other PR chaps seat him down to clean his cobwebs. It needs to be done quick enough before further contamination! He is dangerous.
Yes, to shrink budget is inevitable so do political salaries. Why not peg down political and government emoluments(except security services) to GDP and let it oscilates? How else can we gauge political leadership if not by growth in GDP? Shoulder to it should be new sources of revenue....expanding markets/regionalized economy. Alot can be done and will be done. However, security is paramount to economical growth/stability in our region. My 5 cents.
Go through the lists of management of government parastatals and corporations and you will see the title “Gen (Rtd)” fairly often. I have always wondered what talents career soldiers bring to these government parastatals. Perhaps they have some organisational acumen as a result of their time in the army that I miss. But why do private companies not snap them up after they hand over the epaulettes? Why is it that their acumen is only prized by companies whose board composition the government has a say in?

SERIOUSLY??? It takes decades of dedicated service with intense training/education both in national/international affairs to make it to a Gen. In my intake/134 cadets, 38 were graduates and the rest had University qualifications. This writer needs real education. Hope TEA members don't whine about it but locate him for some coffee....

Spartan wrote: Buddy, ulikuwa wapi?. We miss your intellectual input here. That said, I think Kenya's defence expenditure usually means both internal security (police) expenditure and military while for other countries internal security expenditure is usually different from military expenditure.

ole Nkarei wrote:An intellectual discourse that is informed of Gospel-like presumptive 'correctness' is always, in my opinion, a distasteful waste of time and effort. No doubt, there are opinions about everything as there are 'everything's - heck, even the determination of what is 'correct' could verily be relative. On a matter as engrossing, as expansive, as intricate as this that Waga Odongo writes about, how can anyone possible declare WWIV basing on such a shallow piece he has penned out? A piece whose only redeeming value is the laughable expose of the writer's incredible ignorance? It is entirely possible for some well-researched and founded article to have been written and which would have formed the basis for informative debate for + against the Status-Quo that is the subject-matter. Helas, I must disagree witcha on the manner Odongo takes to it, #Vitruvian.

The Election 2013 and its aftermath has fatally gutted the 'Evil Society' and their foreign puppet-masters. It is time to round up the Wagons and rediscover focus and energize new purpose. Such is the exercise that Waga Odongo is engaged in - quite as a management function, military or corporate. But we would be well advise to let matter settle down a-mite before we can seriously consider making war on the urgings of these Civil Society fellows - they are formless and without distinctive definition presently.

proud kenyan wrote:

ole Nkarei wrote:An intellectual discourse that is informed of Gospel-like presumptive 'correctness' is always, in my opinion, a distasteful waste of time and effort. No doubt, there are opinions about everything as there are 'everything's - heck, even the determination of what is 'correct' could verily be relative. On a matter as engrossing, as expansive, as intricate as this that Waga Odongo writes about, how can anyone possible declare WWIV basing on such a shallow piece he has penned out? A piece whose only redeeming value is the laughable expose of the writer's incredible ignorance? It is entirely possible for some well-researched and founded article to have been written and which would have formed the basis for informative debate for + against the Status-Quo that is the subject-matter. Helas, I must disagree witcha on the manner Odongo takes to it, #Vitruvian.

The Election 2013 and its aftermath has fatally gutted the 'Evil Society' and their foreign puppet-masters. It is time to round up the Wagons and rediscover focus and energize new purpose. Such is the exercise that Waga Odongo is engaged in - quite as a management function, military or corporate. But we would be well advise to let matter settle down a-mite before we can seriously consider making war on the urgings of these Civil Society fellows - they are formless and without distinctive definition presently.

if the writer of that piece were somewhere in Gedo, the amount of firepower to land on him would be equivalent to using a hammer to kill a mosquito,american style, what with ON and his special team,sidai spoiling for a fight and risasi all too eager to show where the funds he wants diverted elsewhere went to, maybe spartan and vivutrian and some sector 1 occupants angling for the ringside seats.
you guys have even more heart than i do, i only read two paragraphs that summarised his thinking: you want to own a 4D tv screen buy it, and give little regard to the poorly constructed barbed wire fence surrounding your home or lack of one, and be guaranteed to possess it for the rest of your lifetime without the sticky fingers of your locality deciding to show your new possession a disappearance trick or two.a good example at how these days common sense is not that common.

Vitruvian wrote:What IS civil society? For the uninitiated - if you're not military or other government, or (big) business, you're civil society. That's the definition of you, period. You have no way out of civil society except by joining government or business. You may hate it, but then you hate yourself. And your mum, your dad..

Vitruvian wrote:In fact, brother Spartan, I am (for the most part) with you on this one. As I noted in my response above, I was non-commital regarding the substance of the article. What I found unpalatable was the Wag's crucifixion without constructive input. Simply dismissing him as - effectively - a blithering idiot and hoping to kill any argument by such means is not doing justice to a mind that easily relegates everyone here, including your's truly, to intellectual insignificance (and probably one of the reasons why I now frequent this forum by the purest of chance). I am somewhat wary of soldiery that adopts the bushesque "you're either with us or you're against us" paradigm. It denies the recourse of human fallibility. You mentioned Idi Amin...
In addition, anyone who takes the Wag's articles prima facie should probably stick to the sports pages. The Wag's real messages are cleverly subliminal.

Spartan wrote:

Vitruvian wrote:What is actually dangerous is this absolute level of intolerance for civilian intellect in the oversight of military affairs, especially as expressed by a uniform on a KDF-sponsored forum ("Risasi's friend in America?" Really?), especially considering the "contamination" of society through the increasingly popular trend of military "participation" in civilian affairs, and especially considering the freedom of thought, freedom of speech and expression that no number of amendments to any number of instruments can ever take away again, whether or not the amendments are made after a lengthy parliamentary debate or after a tete-a-tete with the government printer.
Regardless of personal opinion, a rejoinder cannot be reduced to an ad hominem response lest it be mistaken for an abusive fallacy. And we have, throughout history, seen many a be-medalled man attempt that.
You shoot yourself in the foot, Ole Sidai.

Buddy, ulikuwa wapi?. We miss your intellectual input here. That said, I think Kenya's defence expenditure usually means both internal security (police) expenditure and military while for other countries internal security expenditure is usually different from military expenditure.

Now, on civilian overlordship over the military, we all agree that's what supposed to be the case, at least that's what I and thousands of others were taught. However, the article seemed to suggest that the army is dispensable, and that peace can exist with minimal defence spending. That is liberal pacifism for lack of a better word. Even Switzerland, a peace-loving 'neutral' country spends $3bn a year on it's army. The problem with being weak or being perceived as such is that you invite bullies - Idi Amin was tempted to annex western Kenya because, at the time, the Uganda army was stronger than the Kenya army, at least equipment-wise.

Secondly, strong armies support foreign policy which is often converted into tenders and contracts. Kenya is a leader in this region, it can't afford to be seen to be carrying no 'stick'. Tanzania and South African companies will win DRC contracts as a result of their deployment of their troops there. It's therefore not true that armies only consume.

Kenyan military expenditure is 2% of GDP or thereabouts, a very healthy percentage. Why not tackle the 98% first. Real 'bravery' would be cutting the salaries of civil servants (the highest in the region) who don't put their lives on the line, who are in bed or bars by 10pm. Ama?

Lastly, civilian oversight is good and that's what the whole idea was from the beginning. But the army is a guarantor of the state and it has knowledge, skills, resources and the willingness to die for the rest of the country. They should be respected for that. So politicians and civil society organisations wanting to make a living and political points can not be allowed unlimited say on how the army is run.

Trimming army resources is tantamount to trimming the army, and trimming the army can only be done after assessing security needs of the country, which is the preserve of the army generals with the help of intelligence, or people privy to such info, like the C-i-C. Since the writer is none of the above, I posit that he isn't qualified to talk about what he was saying.

Spartan wrote:

Vitruvian wrote:What IS civil society? For the uninitiated - if you're not military or other government, or (big) business, you're civil society. That's the definition of you, period. You have no way out of civil society except by joining government or business. You may hate it, but then you hate yourself. And your mum, your dad..

The thing with civil society is that they have this approach to problem-solving that assumes that we can all live in a land of daisies if we all came together, and most importantly, they are foreign-funded. People and organisations tend to keep on the straight and narrow spelt out by their funders. You will therefore understand ON's and other uniforms' double take on whatever these guys espouse. If they had their way, the whole of Africa would have no army because we have so many poor people that need to be taken care of.

Vitruvian wrote:In fact, brother Spartan, I am (for the most part) with you on this one. As I noted in my response above, I was non-commital regarding the substance of the article. What I found unpalatable was the Wag's crucifixion without constructive input. Simply dismissing him as - effectively - a blithering idiot and hoping to kill any argument by such means is not doing justice to a mind that easily relegates everyone here, including your's truly, to intellectual insignificance (and probably one of the reasons why I now frequent this forum by the purest of chance). I am somewhat wary of soldiery that adopts the bushesque "you're either with us or you're against us" paradigm. It denies the recourse of human fallibility. You mentioned Idi Amin...
In addition, anyone who takes the Wag's articles prima facie should probably stick to the sports pages. The Wag's real messages are cleverly subliminal.

Spartan wrote:

Vitruvian wrote:What is actually dangerous is this absolute level of intolerance for civilian intellect in the oversight of military affairs, especially as expressed by a uniform on a KDF-sponsored forum ("Risasi's friend in America?" Really?), especially considering the "contamination" of society through the increasingly popular trend of military "participation" in civilian affairs, and especially considering the freedom of thought, freedom of speech and expression that no number of amendments to any number of instruments can ever take away again, whether or not the amendments are made after a lengthy parliamentary debate or after a tete-a-tete with the government printer.
Regardless of personal opinion, a rejoinder cannot be reduced to an ad hominem response lest it be mistaken for an abusive fallacy. And we have, throughout history, seen many a be-medalled man attempt that.
You shoot yourself in the foot, Ole Sidai.

Buddy, ulikuwa wapi?. We miss your intellectual input here. That said, I think Kenya's defence expenditure usually means both internal security (police) expenditure and military while for other countries internal security expenditure is usually different from military expenditure.

Now, on civilian overlordship over the military, we all agree that's what supposed to be the case, at least that's what I and thousands of others were taught. However, the article seemed to suggest that the army is dispensable, and that peace can exist with minimal defence spending. That is liberal pacifism for lack of a better word. Even Switzerland, a peace-loving 'neutral' country spends $3bn a year on it's army. The problem with being weak or being perceived as such is that you invite bullies - Idi Amin was tempted to annex western Kenya because, at the time, the Uganda army was stronger than the Kenya army, at least equipment-wise.

Secondly, strong armies support foreign policy which is often converted into tenders and contracts. Kenya is a leader in this region, it can't afford to be seen to be carrying no 'stick'. Tanzania and South African companies will win DRC contracts as a result of their deployment of their troops there. It's therefore not true that armies only consume.

Kenyan military expenditure is 2% of GDP or thereabouts, a very healthy percentage. Why not tackle the 98% first. Real 'bravery' would be cutting the salaries of civil servants (the highest in the region) who don't put their lives on the line, who are in bed or bars by 10pm. Ama?

Lastly, civilian oversight is good and that's what the whole idea was from the beginning. But the army is a guarantor of the state and it has knowledge, skills, resources and the willingness to die for the rest of the country. They should be respected for that. So politicians and civil society organisations wanting to make a living and political points can not be allowed unlimited say on how the army is run.

Trimming army resources is tantamount to trimming the army, and trimming the army can only be done after assessing security needs of the country, which is the preserve of the army generals with the help of intelligence, or people privy to such info, like the C-i-C. Since the writer is none of the above, I posit that he isn't qualified to talk about what he was saying.

Fabrizio wrote:I find this forum more interesting and enlightening when netters are discussing strictly military matters. When members delve into areas outside their domain of competence, it shows and its not flattering.

Our Ugandan brothers like Spartan, Aggressor-One etc many not quite grasp it. But in the context of Kenya's politics, everything(including wordy sanctimonious ramblings about imperialism etc) boils down to the tribe.

Lets keep it out of here by focusing less on civilian matters, especially in Kenya.

Fabrizio wrote:I find this forum more interesting and enlightening when netters are discussing strictly military matters. When members delve into areas outside their domain of competence, it shows and its not flattering.

Our Ugandan brothers like Spartan, Aggressor-One etc many not quite grasp it. But in the context of Kenya's politics, everything(including wordy sanctimonious ramblings about imperialism etc) boils down to the tribe.

Lets keep it out of here by focusing less on civilian matters, especially in Kenya.

wrote:Somali Gov dispatched dreaded warlord to Kismayo. Bare Hiiraale entered kismayo by sea last night.Reports say that he was appointed governor

#Kismayo is tense today when former warlord Barre Hiraale was seen in the city with clan militia. Hiraale led Juba valley alliance faction