Kenya Defence Force

Jasiri-@Cyclone, let it be known to you (and al that have asked this question
before) that at one time during Kianga's reign the east african defence
chiefs offered help to Museveni but he flatly refused. i wonder why he
is comfy with the americans ( ). By the way i really doubt if you mean the Su-34. What role will it serve in the air force? as spectacular as it is.[Quote]

I wonder why he refused?,M7 is proud dictator and he is just to stubborn to ask for any help from his neighbors but he will ask usa because he wants the American mentality in his soldiers so they can become a "Professional Army'' i mean america doesnt know how to fight in jungles like we africans know to they would just saturate an area with bombs and call it a day. On the Su-34 the purpose it would serve in our airforce would be a powerful longrange/bomber and fighter that would serve the whole Eac region and beyond so lets say that bashir decides to send his tank army in SS and the Sudanese have no way of stopping him thats where these babies would come in and turn his tanks into scrap metal.Other purposes it would serve as a multirole fighter,reconnaissance plane,Infantry support etc.

@jasiri, stop posting LRA pictures as UPDF. Either you are waging a misinformation campaign or you are ignorant (it pains me to have to use that word on you, btw)? Whatever it is, it's not funny. Those are LRA arriving at a place called Rwi-Kwangba in South Sudan as part of a 'peace delegation'. While you were away, I introduced a website that shows where else the same picture appears and the true info about it. Check all the stories about that picture here. So no more unsubstantiated pictures please.

@ Nead Starks Head, jasiri and company, gumboots are our favorite footwear where we have to cross rivers and mashy, swampy terrain. All those UGABAG troops, once on the trail of Kony will happily exchange their polished boots for gumboots. I myself have gumboots,yeah you heard right.That's what I call experience, quickly adapting to your environment and getting the job done. The LRA is a guerrilla bandit force moving in small groups, to get them, you have to operate like them. I can assure you polished boots, which you somehow equate to professionalism, wouldn't serve you well even on a two week deployment in Garamba.

Like I said in an earlier post, the mission comes first for us. We pa little attention to image.You wouldn't know these, would you? You are probably never won a uniform in your lives (apart from school uniforms, of course).

Kony is meanwhile receiving his unwanted 15 minutes of fame, thanks to a record breaking viral video. I have issues with the exploitation of images of children on the streets of Gulu, because the video makes it seem like they are still sleeping on the streets for fear of abduction by rebels have not been in Uganda since 2006. That said, the millions of dollars that will go to Gulu, I have no problem with them.

@Observer, thanks for that video man. But like ole Nkarei and myself said in the posts before, she could've been part of a supply convoy. Sisters are never deliberately chosen for the more riskier missions, she was somehow protected in a convoy of armored vehicles. Either way, she was in too deep.

MAJOR CHIRCHIR tweeted yesterday that the first batch of KDF green beret commandos are being flown into AMISOM formations early next week.
lets see how this will pan out as indications show AFMADOW about o completely capitulate to KDF.

Spartan wrote:

.. gumboots are our favorite footwear where we have to cross rivers and mashy, swampy terrain. All those UGABAG troops, once on the trail of Kony will happily exchange their polished boots for gumboots. I myself have gumboots,yeah you heard right.That's what I call experience, quickly adapting to your environment and getting the job done. The LRA is a guerrilla bandit force moving in small groups, to get them, you have to operate like them. I can assure you polished boots, which you somehow equate to professionalism, wouldn't serve you well even on a two week deployment in Garamba.

In the interest of Kenyana, I wish to be allowed to put perspective to this appellation ‘Gum-boot Army’’ which I admit I coined back in the Chronicle days years ago (that long, eh? !) Like Spartan protests frequently, helas with understandable growing exasperation, kitting with the Gumboots was well considered UPDF adaptation – initially in the early revolutionary days of an expansive politico-army (and skimpy budgets?) and in response to the marshy terrain in which UPDF often deploys both inside and outside Uganda – Uganda has large swathes of marshy terrain in an almost equatorial climate of constant rains. But my first and (sorry Spartan!) enduring impression of the UPDF in my younger days was a massive wall of Gumboots on an reassembly ground – I know this has changed and the ‘’Gumboots’’ are currently an kit from choice. But damn, couldn’t resist a dig into you chaps, man!!

This manenos of Johnny and ICC wanting to fix the 'ol man. I really do not like it one bit. We are a sovereign state really. Could be coz the 'ol man has been strongly leaning East and has shown that we can do it on our own?!!
http://www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/UK+accused+of+seeking+Kibaki+trial+at+ICC+/-/1064/1362248/-/797njlz/-/index.html

@forum, your thoughts?

[quote="cylon"]Jasiri-@Cyclone, let it be known to you (and al that have asked this question
before) that at one time during Kianga's reign the east african defence
chiefs offered help to Museveni but he flatly refused. i wonder why he
is comfy with the americans ( ). By the way i really doubt if you mean the Su-34. What role will it serve in the air force? as spectacular as it is.

I wonder why he refused?,M7 is proud dictator and he is just to stubborn to ask for any help from his neighbors but he will ask usa because he wants the American mentality in his soldiers so they can become a "Professional Army'' i mean america doesnt know how to fight in jungles like we africans know to they would just saturate an area with bombs and call it a day. On the Su-34 the purpose it would serve in our airforce would be a powerful longrange/bomber and fighter that would serve the whole Eac region and beyond so lets say that bashir decides to send his tank army in SS and the Sudanese have no way of stopping him thats where these babies would come in and turn his tanks into scrap metal.Other purposes it would serve as a multirole fighter,reconnaissance plane,Infantry support etc.

The Scenario
In the recent past, Kenya, Uganda, and Tanzania have been working hard to establish the EAC. Upon oil discoveries in Uganda and Tanzania, we have seen a rapid shift in the unions paradigms besides new economic-military concessions between (Tanzania Uganda) and the West and the Orient. EAC has become a pipe dream.
Ugandan oil has US salivating. US was eying Southern Sudan oil. But latest oil infrastructure concessions between Ethiopia/S.Sudan with Kenya shocked US and Uganda.

The Objectives of US Strategic Interests in Uganda
LRA is merely the politically aggrieved and barbaric Acholi people who pose no strategic military-political threat to East and Central Africa. American Special Forces have been in Uganda for 5-months (parallel to OLN in Somalia). The strategic importance is tri-way.
One the deployment represents important US military support for Uganda (further explaining how Kenya is being isolated and looked down strategically).
Two China's increasing influence in the great lakes region and the greater horn of Africa requires countering (many infrastructure and economic development projects are funded and completed by the Orientals).
Three,these ties gives it (Uganda) the ability to influence its neighbors by leveraging their military ties with the United States (hence your projection Museveni wants a professional-US-Like army).

Outcomes
For the first time, NSIS and its Chief Kibaki, have stymied Western sphere of influence by increasing the tempo of cross-border trade and military cooperation (Southern Sudan and Ethiopia.).
Uganda was shocked and questioned Kenya's intentions geopolitically (Odinga flew to Kampala to cool down tensions).
However it was not Uganda that was aggrieved rather US and Britain whose strategic interests in the region seem not to be taking shape. Uganda needs Kenya for its imports and exports. Even with its oil, without Kenya, its useless since it has to export through Kenya. Uganda hoped Juba would agree to a joint venture but since the death of John Garang will not trust Ugandan's. Nairobi just grabbed Kampala by the balls. On the other hand Juba's oil is flowing and all what Nairobi needs is a pipeline so as to achieve economic benefits...Uganda is yet to milk the ground of the black gold. The same is with Tanzania. Ethiopia and South Sudan are more important than TZ and UG to Kenya but each is in place for Nairobi's benefit.......

As sucH Kibaki is seating pretty and asks the West...'WHO IS SMARTER NOW?'
Kenya with all these bilateral-infrastructure-oil-port-refinery-rail-and military agreements...is the regional power broker besides the richest country there....(WE DONT NEED TO EXPLORE FOR OIL FOR IT FLOWS FROM WEST, NORTH, AND EAST)....Am sure Kibaki is laughing at his wit!

Analyst wrote: Outcomes
For the first time, NSIS and its Chief Kibaki, have stymied Western sphere of influence by increasing the tempo of cross-border trade and military cooperation (Southern Sudan and Ethiopia.).

spot on @analyst.

The republicans through president BUSH the second are the ones who started to prop up MUSEVENI...i just don't understand why this luo man BARACK Obama continues the same trend by sending 100 special forces to track down Joseph konyi..whom i believe may already be dead... but Uganda is keeping the myth alive to keep them dollars coming.
I KNOW president Obama distrusts kibaki because of what happened in 2007/08 and personalty does not want to deal with kibaki..as he awaits the next president..that is why he avoids Kenya like plaque.
BTW how come the USA special forces have not made ANY headway in the search for kony?..me thinks the main reason they are here in Uganda is to prepare for Obama presidential visit to the region. before the end of the year.

cylon wrote:
Yak 130 10 million dollars its a light attack fighter that would be great replacing the tigers.

The other reason i choose the Yak is because you mentioned that C7's would ride the slipstream of the eagles to be secondary fighters and i was just wondering instead of buying the kifirs several yaks would go a long way as a secondary fleet they would be cheaper to operate, fly, etc

No one spoke about KDF-AF already having purchased the Kfir C7! And the price per pop is USSD4.5 Mil (2.6Mil for the Tigers!!) and could get markedly cheaper if procured in the slipstream of ‘’something else’’ - discussion point. And why would you assume these must be used-stock anyway? Your favored CAS tool is the YAK130 at USD10 a pop – you reckon cost-benefit justifies? Cheaper to operate, you reckon?

@ Rwigi - don't believe everything you hear on this matter - plenty of disinformation on both sides shooting around.

@Analyst - this SIN assessment of the Strategic Kenyana picture I have some trouble with. Someone is floating a test-balloon, be watchful!

rwigi wrote:This manenos of Johnny and ICC wanting to fix the 'ol man. I really do not like it one bit. We are a sovereign state really. Could be coz the 'ol man has been strongly leaning East and has shown that we can do it on our own?!!
http://www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/UK+accused+of+seeking+Kibaki+trial+at+ICC+/-/1064/1362248/-/797njlz/-/index.html

@forum, your thoughts?

The reports represented in parliament were official and had the seal of the British office accused of these machinations.
ICC issue is actually quasi-politico with US and Britain seeking to stop Kenya from going the last lap of military-economic superiority hence become another Iran (Unstoppable, undeterred, economically independent, and militarily-economically superior, and a regional power house).
Odinga presidency would reverse such gains owing to his nexus with French, British, and Americans (carcass for hounds).

The ICC problem long started with the 'eye problem'......when you go for surgery, your security detail is left outside and only the doctor and the nurses are inside operating on you. Inside the operating room/theater, you get your regular intelligence briefing which is either EYES ONLY or YOUR EARS ONLY.

A bit of insight on
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL34665.pdf
http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=1850
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1575860/Kenya-fears-more-ethnic-strife-as-two-killed.html

The Prosecutor’s request to open an investigation in Kenya was approved by ICC judges in
March 2010. Kenya is a party to the ICC, but it was the first instance in which ICC judges
authorized an investigation based on a recommendation from the Prosecutor, as opposed to a state
referral or U.N. Security Council directive. The investigation was related to post-election
violence in Kenya in 2007-2008, in which over 1,000 individuals were killed, hundreds of
thousands displaced, and a range of other abuses, including sexual violence, allegedly committed.
A government of national unity was formed following the disputed elections, and the issue of
accountability for abuses has remained a sensitive one in Kenyan politics. The Prosecutor
contends that high-ranking officials planned and instigated large-scale abuses, a view supported
by independent investigations into the violence.

I dare postulate that IF:

a) LAPSSET gets operational and the oil pipeline flows towards Lamu, and...
b) 2012 passes uneventfully and
c) and Somalia is Passified to the extent of containing their insurrections,

Sammy and Johnnyś golden goose as far as E.A is concerned will all but be cooked. Short of waging proxy insurgencies within the politically immature region, theyll have very few cards. Our war then becomes ideological as well.

@Analyst - this SIN assessment of the Strategic Kenyana picture I have some trouble with. Someone is floating a test-balloon, be watchful!

[/quote]

I Think we helped fix the 'INTEL FAILURE AND ANALYSIS' issues at Ruaraka.

These guys have become better in the past 1-month after the massive National Security breach (Jan and Feb). I see Kibaki making inroads everywhere contrary to what we have observed in the past.

I am watching out bro!

Analyst wrote:

rwigi wrote:This manenos of Johnny and ICC wanting to fix the 'ol man. I really do not like it one bit. We are a sovereign state really. Could be coz the 'ol man has been strongly leaning East and has shown that we can do it on our own?!!
http://www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/UK+accused+of+seeking+Kibaki+trial+at+ICC+/-/1064/1362248/-/797njlz/-/index.html

@forum, your thoughts?

The reports represented in parliament were official and had the seal of the British office accused of these machinations.
ICC issue is actually quasi-politico with US and Britain seeking to stop Kenya from going the last lap of military-economic superiority hence become another Iran (Unstoppable, undeterred, economically independent, and militarily-economically superior, and a regional power house).
Odinga presidency would reverse such gains owing to his nexus with French, British, and Americans (carcass for hounds).

The ICC problem long started with the 'eye problem'......when you go for surgery, your security detail is left outside and only the doctor and the nurses are inside operating on you. Inside the operating room/theater, you get your regular intelligence briefing which is either EYES ONLY or YOUR EARS ONLY.

A bit of insight on

http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=1850
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1575860/Kenya-fears-more-ethnic-strife-as-two-killed.html

The Prosecutor’s request to open an investigation in Kenya was approved by ICC judges in
March 2010. Kenya is a party to the ICC, but it was the first instance in which ICC judges
authorized an investigation based on a recommendation from the Prosecutor, as opposed to a state
referral or U.N. Security Council directive. The investigation was related to post-election
violence in Kenya in 2007-2008, in which over 1,000 individuals were killed, hundreds of
thousands displaced, and a range of other abuses, including sexual violence, allegedly committed.
A government of national unity was formed following the disputed elections, and the issue of
accountability for abuses has remained a sensitive one in Kenyan politics. The Prosecutor
contends that high-ranking officials planned and instigated large-scale abuses, a view supported
by independent investigations into the violence.

i have seen those papers being touted in parliament and the best i can suggest is that they are a poor forgeries..or whoever wrote them is not English or British.various errors in language and grammar.almost foolish and amateurish.looks like they were penned by some kiuks somewhere in kirinyaga road backstreet in Nairobi
i think this is just another front by pro kibaki operatives using this new opening to fight and stop the Raila group becoming PORT. at al costs.
BUT i think roping in the British or Americans using fake allegations is going to be counterproductive.and not needed at all at this juncture..because ODM of RAILA may implode by itself.

areba wrote:I dare postulate that IF:

a) LAPSSET gets operational and the oil pipeline flows towards Lamu, and...
b) 2012 passes uneventfully and
c) and Somalia is Passified to the extent of containing their insurrections,

Sammy and Johnnyś golden goose as far as E.A is concerned will all but be cooked. Short of waging proxy insurgencies within the politically immature region, they have very few cards. Our war then becomes ideological as well.

@areba

i agree with you that if lapset succeeds and Somalia is fast tracked into EAC these johnnies and using proxy's including elite western media will launch a massive establishing campaign to ferment b instability in the region i suspect..
iam ALSO wondering who is behind the simmering isiolo clashes?some NGO operatives need to be probed..that is the smoking gun.

If it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, swims like a duck,and surely behaves like a duck....its a duck

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL34665.pdf
http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=1850
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1575860/Kenya-fears-more-ethnic-strife-as-two-killed.html

The Prosecutor’s request to open an investigation in Kenya was approved by ICC judges in
March 2010. Kenya is a party to the ICC, but it was the first instance in which ICC judges
authorized an investigation based on a recommendation from the Prosecutor, as opposed to a state
referral or U.N. Security Council directive. The investigation was related to post-election
violence in Kenya in 2007-2008, in which over 1,000 individuals were killed, hundreds of
thousands displaced, and a range of other abuses, including sexual violence, allegedly committed.
A government of national unity was formed following the disputed elections, and the issue of
accountability for abuses has remained a sensitive one in Kenyan politics. The Prosecutor
contends that high-ranking officials planned and instigated large-scale abuses, a view supported
by independent investigations into the violence.[/quote]


Carefully read the words in red......and again i challenge you to refute that 'If it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, swims like a duck,and surely behaves like a duck....its a duck!!!!!'


i have seen those papers being touted in parliament and the best i can suggest is that they are a poor forgeries..or whoever wrote them is not English or British.various errors in language and grammar.almost foolish and amateurish.looks like they were penned by some kiuks somewhere in kirinyaga road backstreet in Nairobi
i think this is just another front by pro kibaki operatives using this new opening to fight and stop the Raila group becoming PORT. at al costs.
BUT i think roping in the British or Americans using fake allegations is going to be counterproductive.and not needed at all at this juncture..because ODM of RAILA may implode by itself.[/quote]

You borrowed those words elsewhere since your response history on this forum suggests you are more qualified and capable of giving a very clear picture of politico-military scenarios......[i]

i agree with you that if lapset succeeds and Somalia is fast tracked into EAC these johnnies and using proxy's including BBC will launch a massive establishing campaign to ferment b instability in the region i suspect..
iam ALSO wondering who is behind the simmering isiolo clashes?some NGO operatives need to be probed..that is the smoking gun.[/quote]

Quite Right sir

In Intelligence manuals and other learning materials national security is described as below

National security is the requirement to maintain the survival of the state through the use of economic, diplomacy, power projection and political power. The concept encompasses a broad range of facets, all of which impinge on the non military or economic security of the nation and the values espoused by the national society. Security threats involve not only conventional foes such as other nation-states but also non-state actors such as violent non-state actors, narcotic cartels, multinational corporations and non-governmental organisations.

They reported Kenya to ICC
They provided evidence on PEV to ICC
They chose witnesses and facilitated the protection of these witnesses to ICC.

@analyst
i don't need to borrow anyone's words.i have through my contacts in parliament a complete copy of those papers being presented by that mp who was son to my former late boss.
and you please stop pretending you are not David GOLDMAN himself or and if it makes you fell better,..his sidekick
The SIN thing was set up for a political purposes and only way to gain legitimacy was to masquerade as a military intelligence think tank..to gain confidence and then start writing these wild pro kibaki political stories and soon very very soon already writing anti ICC.pro uhuru garbage.

countersniper wrote:@analyst
i don't need to borrow anyone's words.i have through my contacts in parliament a complete copy of those papers being presented by that mp who was son to my former late boss.
and you please stop pretending you are not David GOLDMAN himself or and if it makes you fell better,..his sidekick
The SIN thing was set up for a political purposes and only way to gain legitimacy was to masquerade as a military intelligence think tank..to gain confidence and then start writing these wild pro kibaki political stories and soon very very soon already writing anti ICC.pro uhuru garbage.

Peace brother Countersniper

Here you don't sound like a happy and intuitive forumer but a brutal 'blood thirsty -part-of-a mob' baying for my innocent blood in the name of SIN sins!!

Don't lynch me for i have no politico nexus, neither military intelligence connections sufficing to further credit my new spot and moniker here (SINNER).

You are good in your views, and i respect them, besides the bravado of providing such insight impartially is what makes the active members of this forum 'very distinct minds'

Peace!!!!!!!!!

Ok analyst..
i stand easy after standing down.
sorry if i sounded that bad...and more my apologies.for my implied line of thinking.SOMETIMES IT PAYS TO throw the grenade into a crowded room just to see the results however brutal.
but rest assured am not that bad.

Where htere is oil..there is always an American link...now he praises Ghana.




http://www.nation.co.ke/News/africa/Obama+praises+Ghana+as+president+visits/-/1066/1362414/-/a5812lz/-/index.html

ole Nkarei wrote:But my first and (sorry Spartan!) enduring impression of the UPDF in my younger days was a massive wall of Gumboots on an reassembly ground – I know this has changed and the ‘’Gumboots’’ are currently an kit from choice.

The only thing has changed about the NRA/UPDF is that we are more battle tested and have more firepower now. Don't let the UGABAG pics fool you. We are still the masters of effective low budget warfare, gumboots and all.

Let me also share my first impressions of the KDF, a certain stereotype which many in the then NRA had about KDF. Soldiers often made jokes about 'fat and very smart Kenyan soldiers' because all they've done since independence is wake up, polish shoes and fit their increasingly bulky frames into well ironed uniforms.

Around 1998 or 1999 SNF militants from Somalia attacked KDF's Amuma base and disarmed 23 KDF. Listening to the BBC Focus on Africa that day, I was dumbfounded when then KDF Spokesman Nicholas Simani said that KDF would launch an attack if the 'stolen' arms were not returned. 'Stolen' as if they were not in the hands of people trained to defend themselves and their country with them. See, we were as amused by the KDF as you were of us

In the UPDF the second worst thing that can happen to a soldier(apart from death) is to be disarmed by the enemy. Call it a remnant of our guerrilla heritage, but that too has never changed.

But we have now an opportunity to put each other's stereotypes at bay in Somalia. Meanwhile, an International Crisis Group report on AMISOM and OLN efforts in Somalia is out. Mostly damning report I must add, especially if you are a big OLN fan.

You might want, after reading the ICG report, to read this post about Kenya Special Forces to lift your spirits. Good reading.

countersniper wrote:.....then start writing these wild pro kibaki political stories and soon very very soon already writing anti ICC.pro uhuru garbage.

On this forum, i suggest that we are not and cannot be our tribes' spokesmen nor our political parties activists. As many as will sympathize with your statement above highlighted, there will be just as many as will find it abhorrent. We cannot engage other with such stereotyped shades.

I suggest there are plenty of fora which are fed from such. Eeeishh!!

That incident you refer to about kdf getting disarmed was an unreported training mission.That platoon consisted of army recruits on a training mission while on border patrol.
There was intelligence failures that lead to these freshers being ambushed and surrounded by about 200 hungry Somali thugs...so the young officer in charge did what he knew best,to surrender instead of getting his 30 heavily outnumbered young men slaughtered.
the thugs took the weapons food rations and vehicles.
When former president moi got the news,he was so incensed he gave the Somalis a 24 hour ultimatum to return the kdf property or face the music.
in the mean time GSU started rounding up Somalis in Nairobi eastleigh and shutting up their businesses...and 12 hours to the expiry of mois ultimatum two F5 tigers were sent to overfly the area the thugs were regrouping inside Somalia as a show of force.
The jets flew low then released their sonic boom.those thugs had never been exposed to that kind of an enemy.panic seized in...
messages was dropped that the next fly past was going to be bombing.

within the hour Somali elders went to meet moi asking for forgiveness and the vehicles and weapons returned promptly next day.
the officer who was in-charge of that particular training session and area a certain major was relieved of his duties for the resulting mess.

The ICG report is just an attempt to justify the groups funding..and it seems to suggest that KDF should have at first informed uncle samm and johnny before launching the attack..to which i say is pure BS.

ole Nkarei wrote:

countersniper wrote:.....then start writing these wild pro kibaki political stories and soon very very soon already writing anti ICC.pro uhuru garbage.

On this forum, i suggest that we are not and cannot be our tribes' spokesmen nor our political parties activists. As many as will sympathize with your statement above highlighted, there will be just as many as will find it abhorrent. We cannot engage other with such stereotyped shades.

I suggest there are plenty of fora which are fed from such. Eeeishh!!

can you explain what you mean?are you insinuating my tribal leanings are parallel to yours? i am above tribal politics and just stating my point of view. ..like everyone else
I AM very aware of your views on politics in Kenya and know where you are coming from.. but i will not dwell on this for now.
my apologies if a m raffling feathers..or stepping on someones big toes ..damn why do i keep on apologizing..?
gosh..will keep off this forum for 30 days.

@Spartan - hip-shot response is dismissive of this ''Report'', but that probably harms more than it cures. Suffice to say that this is atypical of most Western Studies about Africa's leaps and stumbles - a careful blend of fact and fixated fiction. At the core of such maneno, historically, has always been that these Studies are commissioned by Interested Western Parties (Private Sector / Military / Politico) either to confirm and clarify pre-existing Policy position or generate concord on new Policy directions. The ''Report'' is dated 15th February and hence was informed of events up to January.

I have no doubt that evaluations done on the same matter by say Chinese or apolotical scholars in Kenyana, would return a diametrically different result.

The belabored Special Forces treatise is laughable as a investigative piece. Fact intelligently developed from, enveloped by, Fiction.

ole Nkarei wrote:Suffice to say that this is atypical of most Western Studies about Africa's leaps and stumbles - a careful blend of fact and fixated fiction.

Totally agreed. Problem is, these reports are used as reference points by influential organisations and countries with no diplomatic representation here.

Secondly, what is discussed in confidence between our governments and theirs today, tomorrow you find it in a paper accessible to anyone with an internet connection. Take the MV Faina saga, how and when it was resolved is revealed in this congressional research report on Kenya, the defacto official reference info for the US government. I find it somewhat condescending that confidential information relating to 'active' incidents, with real diplomatic and security implications for us is put there for all to see.

As things stand, you would rather China and Russia knew your secrets than the West.

@ Vitruvian, how long will you stay away, bana?

Have you guys ever noticed that the people on the icc list are all africans yet China,Usa,South american Countries commit War crimes everyday.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_indicted_in_the_International_Criminal_Court

Look at it yourself.

Bush killed over half a million of the iraqi population he only gets a slap on the wrist they kill civilains with drones all the time in pakistan slap on the wrist etc.

China treats its civilains like crap they abuse,kill them everytime they protest to the government decisons and they get a slap on the wrist.

Mexican warlords, and drug cartels butcher people everyday on the streets of mexico,and south america and they get a slap on the wrist

Saudi Arabia/Bahrain they used live bullets to kill the protestros who were protesting for a new government that wasnt in the hands of the americans and yet troops with orders from above opened fire and shot hundreds of people they get a slap on the wrist

All these things have one thing in common they are all rich,states and people. So the point is that the ICC is a failed organ of the United Nations its main purpose is to only prosectue africans.

ole Nkarei wrote:

cylon wrote:
Yak 130 10 million dollars its a light attack fighter that would be great replacing the tigers.

The other reason i choose the Yak is because you mentioned that C7's would ride the slipstream of the eagles to be secondary fighters and i was just wondering instead of buying the kifirs several yaks would go a long way as a secondary fleet they would be cheaper to operate, fly, etc

No one spoke about KDF-AF already having purchased the Kfir C7! And the price per pop is USSD4.5 Mil (2.6Mil for the Tigers!!) and could get markedly cheaper if procured in the slipstream of ‘’something else’’ - discussion point. And why would you assume these must be used-stock anyway? Your favored CAS tool is the YAK130 at USD10 a pop – you reckon cost-benefit justifies? Cheaper to operate, you reckon?

@ Rwigi - don't believe everything you hear on this matter - plenty of disinformation on both sides shooting around.

@Analyst - this SIN assessment of the Strategic Kenyana picture I have some trouble with. Someone is floating a test-balloon, be watchful!

I asumme they must be used stocks because they are retired jets i mean the Kiffirs is just an ugly jet it looks like a bootleg mirage 3. Yes i believe the Yak would be cheaper to fly because of its flying range of 2000km.

rwigi wrote:This manenos of Johnny and ICC wanting to fix the 'ol man. I really do not like it one bit. We are a sovereign state really. Could be coz the 'ol man has been strongly leaning East and has shown that we can do it on our own?!!
http://www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/UK+accused+of+seeking+Kibaki+trial+at+ICC+/-/1064/1362248/-/797njlz/-/index.html

@forum, your thoughts?

Its clearly a tactic to divide kenyans By sending the president the ICC hopes to get Kibaki to spill the beans on the people on trial but baba jimmy is not gonna do that because it would betray the whole nation. The west wants to keep a noose on the neck of africa so that we would constantly beg to them for food,clothing etc but we are starting to get on our feet and its scaring them because an independent africa would become a global dominace.

ole Nkarei wrote:

countersniper wrote:.....then start writing these wild pro kibaki political stories and soon very very soon already writing anti ICC.pro uhuru garbage.

On this forum, i suggest that we are not and cannot be our tribes' spokesmen nor our political parties activists. As many as will sympathize with your statement above highlighted, there will be just as many as will find it abhorrent. We cannot engage other with such stereotyped shades.

I suggest there are plenty of fora which are fed from such. Eeeishh!!

It is a bit clear what the official 'doctrine' of this website is but you are doing yourself further disservice by ignoring the source and going after a dissenting voice while claiming neutrality. That some individuals here are foot soldiers for either PNU or ODM is not tribalism, but a logical conclusion that can be arrived at based on what is advanced. If you are going to preach neutrality you should begin by 'encouraging' those advancing the poorly written dossier as proof of one party's attempt to have the president tried at the ICC before going after those that condem the wild allegation.