Re: Air Superiority Stealth Fighter Jets

jasiri Thu Oct 04 2012, 22:19

cylon wrote:
jasiri wrote:
gash wrote:cmae across some news that chinese have unveiled j31 similar to us f35.anyone with some insight.

last time i read about LAB was that it was undergoing expansion and purpoted that it would be finished by feb this year.Risasi could you please give some little insight.
Along that line, something may have passed unnoticed by blog. Kenya may have received 6 Hongdu L-15 sometimes this year. I'm trying to hustle for a link lakini wapi! might this be the new birds Risasi n ON were tempting us with?

+1 i got some info too, but i hear they are Yak130's and it looks like KDF is looking to replace the F-5 fleet with some F-16's or the JF-17

There aint mush difference there ey? Though personally i believe the KAF will go for the L-15, cheaper more advanced version of the Yak...plus some chinese website i read a while back (sielewi chinese) claimed that China will deliver the L 15 to customers in Africa and Latin America...As for the fighters, id rather it was French.

mogen Fri Oct 05 2012, 06:27

jasiri wrote:
cylon wrote:
jasiri wrote:
gash wrote:cmae across some news that chinese have unveiled j31 similar to us f35.anyone with some insight.

last time i read about LAB was that it was undergoing expansion and purpoted that it would be finished by feb this year.Risasi could you please give some little insight.
Along that line, something may have passed unnoticed by blog. Kenya may have received 6 Hongdu L-15 sometimes this year. I'm trying to hustle for a link lakini wapi! might this be the new birds Risasi n ON were tempting us with?

+1 i got some info too, but i hear they are Yak130's and it looks like KDF is looking to replace the F-5 fleet with some F-16's or the JF-17
There aint mush difference there ey? Though personally i believe the KAF will go for the L-15, cheaper more advanced version of the Yak...plus some chinese website i read a while back (sielewi chinese) claimed that China will deliver the L 15 to customers in Africa and Latin America...As for the fighters, id rather it was French.

@Jasiri

I can translate the Chinese for you if it is the simplified Chinese characters. Send me the link so I can check it out

I also heard China is delivering the L15 to 12 countries in Africa and Latin America this year. I believe contracts are sealed and the lid is supertight. Can't tell which countries until after delivery - TZ, Zimbabwe, Kenya, South Sudan, Angola, ... may be recipients. The L15 has been described as the prettiest trainer jet. Looks good.

Some pics

Air Superiority Stealth Fighter Jets - Page 7 L15_tr11

Air Superiority Stealth Fighter Jets - Page 7 L15-je13

Air Superiority Stealth Fighter Jets - Page 7 L15-je14

Air Superiority Stealth Fighter Jets - Page 7 L15-je15

gash Fri Oct 05 2012, 08:09

mogen wrote:
jasiri wrote:
cylon wrote:
jasiri wrote:
gash wrote:cmae across some news that chinese have unveiled j31 similar to us f35.anyone with some insight.

last time i read about LAB was that it was undergoing expansion and purpoted that it would be finished by feb this year.Risasi could you please give some little insight.
Along that line, something may have passed unnoticed by blog. Kenya may have received 6 Hongdu L-15 sometimes this year. I'm trying to hustle for a link lakini wapi! might this be the new birds Risasi n ON were tempting us with?

+1 i got some info too, but i hear they are Yak130's and it looks like KDF is looking to replace the F-5 fleet with some F-16's or the JF-17
There aint mush difference there ey? Though personally i believe the KAF will go for the L-15, cheaper more advanced version of the Yak...plus some chinese website i read a while back (sielewi chinese) claimed that China will deliver the L 15 to customers in Africa and Latin America...As for the fighters, id rather it was French.
@Jasiri

I can translate the Chinese for you if it is the simplified Chinese characters. Send me the link so I can check it out

I also heard China is delivering the L15 to 12 countries in Africa and Latin America this year. I believe contracts are sealed and the lid is supertight. Can't tell which countries until after delivery - TZ, Zimbabwe, Kenya, South Sudan, Angola, ... may be recipients. The L15 has been described as the prettiest trainer jet. Looks good.

Some pics

everything to do with kdf assets is very secretive and it wouldn't be a suprise to even see the yaks, su or even migs in the midst.lets just wait and see wat will come out of the stores.

mogen Fri Oct 05 2012, 08:27

[quote="gash"]

mogen wrote:
jasiri wrote:
cylon wrote:
jasiri wrote:
gash wrote:cmae across some news that chinese have unveiled j31 similar to us f35.anyone with some insight.

last time i read about LAB was that it was undergoing expansion and purpoted that it would be finished by feb this year.Risasi could you please give some little insight.
Along that line, something may have passed unnoticed by blog. Kenya may have received 6 Hongdu L-15 sometimes this year. I'm trying to hustle for a link lakini wapi! might this be the new birds Risasi n ON were tempting us with?

+1 i got some info too, but i hear they are Yak130's and it looks like KDF is looking to replace the F-5 fleet with some F-16's or the JF-17
There aint mush difference there ey? Though personally i believe the KAF will go for the L-15, cheaper more advanced version of the Yak...plus some chinese website i read a while back (sielewi chinese) claimed that China will deliver the L 15 to customers in Africa and Latin America...As for the fighters, id rather it was French.
@Jasiri

I can translate the Chinese for you if it is the simplified Chinese characters. Send me the link so I can check it out

I also heard China is delivering the L15 to 12 countries in Africa and Latin America this year. I believe contracts are sealed and the lid is supertight. Can't tell which countries until after delivery - TZ, Zimbabwe, Kenya, South Sudan, Angola, ... may be recipients. The L15 has been described as the prettiest trainer jet. Looks good.

everything to do with kdf assets is very secretive and it wouldn't be a suprise to even see the yaks, su or even migs in the midst.lets just wait and see wat will come out of the stores.

@Gash

That's the way it should be. You don't show all of your cards. Your adversaries can take you out quick time if they know what you have or don't have in your arsenal. Even in Sledge Harmer they didn't show us 1/3 of the assets they used. Me too, I'd not be surprised to find out Kenya has F-15s, Yak-130, L15, T-90s and other mean-looking machines hitherto unknown publicly. But do we really want to know everything?

Guest Fri Oct 05 2012, 08:53

mogen wrote:@Gash
That's the way it should be. You don't show all of your cards. Your adversaries can take you out quick time if they know what you have or don't have in your arsenal. Even in Sledge Harmer they didn't show us 1/3 of the assets they used. Me too, I'd not be surprised to find out Kenya has F-15s, Yak-130, L15, T-90s and other mean-looking machines hitherto unknown publicly. But do we really want to know everything?

Ye, we do.

mogen Fri Oct 05 2012, 09:16

Vitruvian wrote:
mogen wrote:@Gash
That's the way it should be. You don't show all of your cards. Your adversaries can take you out quick time if they know what you have or don't have in your arsenal. Even in Sledge Harmer they didn't show us 1/3 of the assets they used. Me too, I'd not be surprised to find out Kenya has F-15s, Yak-130, L15, T-90s and other mean-looking machines hitherto unknown publicly. But do we really want to know everything?

Ye, we do.

@Vitruvian

I beg to disagree. Why would we here[civilians and public fora like this one] want to know everything or about every newly acquired military asset of Kenya or any other country for that matter? I stand to be corrected but I dare say, not a single country in the world publicizes its complete inventory. Starting from countries in our our region please show me one which tells the world everything it has in its arsenal.

jasiri Fri Oct 05 2012, 09:34

Vitruvian wrote:
mogen wrote:@Gash
That's the way it should be. You don't show all of your cards. Your adversaries can take you out quick time if they know what you have or don't have in your arsenal. Even in Sledge Harmer they didn't show us 1/3 of the assets they used. Me too, I'd not be surprised to find out Kenya has F-15s, Yak-130, L15, T-90s and other mean-looking machines hitherto unknown publicly. But do we really want to know everything?

Ye, we do.

Ok, for our resident Chinese specialist...

洪都航空工业集团总经济师杨力平4月25日对第一财经表示，目前上市公司洪都航空（600316.SH）参与投资和研制的猎鹰L15高级教练机今年计划交付12架到拉美和非洲市场，这也是该机型首次出口国外市场。
洪
都航空工业集团总经济师杨力平4月25日对第一财经表示，目前上市公司洪都航空（600316.SH）参与投资和研制的猎鹰L15高级教练机今年计划交付12架到拉美和非洲市场，这也是该机型首次出口国外市场。
杨力平是在“第四届中国航空工业制造国际峰会”期间做出上述表示的。洪都航空是国内专业生产教练飞机和通用飞机的企业；此前，公司的主营产品是中级教练机K8飞机，目前已经占据同类飞机市场75%以上的份额。
据第一财经了解，L15飞机无论在单价还是综合利润率上，都较K8飞机要高出很多。一架L15飞机的目录价格约在7000-8000万元，如果今年可以实现12架L15飞机的首次交付，订单总额将近9.6亿元，这相当于洪都航空2011年18.25亿元营收的54.79%。
洪都航空2011年年报显示，公司当年实现净利8337万元。而根据该公司2012年一季报，公司今年前三个月累计净亏损2947.75万元，每股亏损0.0411元。
对此，杨力平表示，业绩亏损主要是由于今年一季度产品交付量减少所致。他同时指出，对于航空制造企业来说，第一季度交付量都会比较少，而到三季度则会进入快速交付通道；今年公司相关产品的需求前景尚可，预计洪都航空全年业绩表现应强于去年。
杨力平进一步透露，目前教练机相关产品的收入占公司总营收的约四分之三；而除了继续拓展教练机领域，公司还在加大农林飞机等通用航空制造的拓展，目前正在对农林飞机进行改进研制，以拓展国内外市场。
目前，洪都航空已与西安飞机工业集团、中航飞机公司、江西省投资集团等7家公司共同投资设立了江西洪都商用飞机公司，主营国内、国际商用飞机大部件、零组件的设计、研制、生产、销售、维修及服务，以及航空产品的转包生产等。
杨力平就此透露，洪都商飞已经获得了生产国产大飞机C919飞机机身合同并供应波音747-8飞机零部件，预计2013年3月相关机身部件可以实现首次交付。

Which google translated to...

Hongdu Aviation Industry Group chief economist of Yang Liping, First Financial said on April 25, and listed companies Hongdu Aviation (600316.SH) to participate in the investment and development of the Falcon L15 advanced trainer this year plans to deliver 12 to Latin America and Africa The market, which is the first time the models exported to foreign markets.
Flood
Falcon L15 advanced trainer are Aviation Industry Group chief economist of Yang Liping, First Financial said on April 25, currently involved in the investment and development of listed companies Hongdu Aviation (600316.SH) planned for this year to the delivery of 12 Latin American and African markets This is the model for the first time exported to foreign markets.
Yang Liping, made the remarks during the Fourth China Aviation Industry Manufacturing International Summit ". The Hongdu Aviation enterprise of the the domestic professional production coach aircraft and general aircraft; Previously, the company's main product is a the Intermediate trainer aircraft K8 aircraft now occupy more than 75% of the market share of similar aircraft.
First Financial understands, L15 aircraft in terms of unit price or on the overall profit margin, are much higher than the K8 aircraft. An L15 catalog price of the aircraft in about 7000-8000 million can be achieved this year the first delivery of 12 L15 aircraft orders totaling nearly 960 million yuan, which is equivalent to the Hongdu Aviation 2011 1.825 billion yuan revenue of 54.79 %.
Hongdu Aviation 2011 annual reports of the year to achieve a net profit of 83.37 million yuan. 29.4775 million yuan the first three months of this year, according to the company a quarterly in 2012, the company accumulated a net loss and loss per share of 0.0411 yuan.
In this regard, Yang Liping said, the performance loss is mainly due to the product in the first quarter of this year, deliveries to reduce. He also pointed out that for aviation manufacturing enterprises, first quarter deliveries will be relatively small, and to the third quarter, will enter the fast delivery channel; related products this year, demand prospects can still be expected the Hongdu Aviation annual performance should stronger than last year.
Yang Liping further revealed that the trainer related products revenues accounted for about three-quarters of the company's total revenue; Apart trainer field continue to expand, the company is still increasing expansion of forestry general aviation aircraft manufacturing, currently agricultural airplanes improvements being developed to expand domestic and foreign markets.
Hongdu Aviation 7 with Xi'an Aircraft Industry Group, AVIC Aircraft Corporation, Jiangxi Province Investment Group jointly invested and established the Jiangxi Hongdu commercial aircraft company, the main domestic and international commercial aircraft parts, components, design , development, production, sales, maintenance and services, as well as aviation products subcontract production.
Yang Liping this revealed Hongdu Commercial Aircraft has been awarded a production-made large aircraft C919 the aircraft fuselage contract and supply Boeing 747-8 aircraft parts, expected first delivery in March 2013 fuselage parts.

poor translation but it puts the point across. . .and as you can see it's 12 L-15's for two customers n not 12 customers @Mogen. I'm speculating Venezuela and Kenya here.

mogen Fri Oct 05 2012, 09:40

jasiri wrote:
Vitruvian wrote:
mogen wrote:@Gash
That's the way it should be. You don't show all of your cards. Your adversaries can take you out quick time if they know what you have or don't have in your arsenal. Even in Sledge Harmer they didn't show us 1/3 of the assets they used. Me too, I'd not be surprised to find out Kenya has F-15s, Yak-130, L15, T-90s and other mean-looking machines hitherto unknown publicly. But do we really want to know everything?

Ye, we do.
Ok, for our resident Chinese specialist...
洪都航空工业集团总经济师杨力平4月25日对第一财经表示，目前上市公司洪都航空（600316.SH）参与投资和研制的猎鹰L15高级教练机今年计划交付12架到拉美和非洲市场，这也是该机型首次出口国外市场。
洪
都航空工业集团总经济师杨力平4月25日对第一财经表示，目前上市公司洪都航空（600316.SH）参与投资和研制的猎鹰L15高级教练机今年计划交付12架到拉美和非洲市场，这也是该机型首次出口国外市场。
杨力平是在“第四届中国航空工业制造国际峰会”期间做出上述表示的。洪都航空是国内专业生产教练飞机和通用飞机的企业；此前，公司的主营产品是中级教练机K8飞机，目前已经占据同类飞机市场75%以上的份额。
据第一财经了解，L15飞机无论在单价还是综合利润率上，都较K8飞机要高出很多。一架L15飞机的目录价格约在7000-8000万元，如果今年可以实现12架L15飞机的首次交付，订单总额将近9.6亿元，这相当于洪都航空2011年18.25亿元营收的54.79%。
洪都航空2011年年报显示，公司当年实现净利8337万元。而根据该公司2012年一季报，公司今年前三个月累计净亏损2947.75万元，每股亏损0.0411元。
对此，杨力平表示，业绩亏损主要是由于今年一季度产品交付量减少所致。他同时指出，对于航空制造企业来说，第一季度交付量都会比较少，而到三季度则会进入快速交付通道；今年公司相关产品的需求前景尚可，预计洪都航空全年业绩表现应强于去年。
杨力平进一步透露，目前教练机相关产品的收入占公司总营收的约四分之三；而除了继续拓展教练机领域，公司还在加大农林飞机等通用航空制造的拓展，目前正在对农林飞机进行改进研制，以拓展国内外市场。
目前，洪都航空已与西安飞机工业集团、中航飞机公司、江西省投资集团等7家公司共同投资设立了江西洪都商用飞机公司，主营国内、国际商用飞机大部件、零组件的设计、研制、生产、销售、维修及服务，以及航空产品的转包生产等。
杨力平就此透露，洪都商飞已经获得了生产国产大飞机C919飞机机身合同并供应波音747-8飞机零部件，预计2013年3月相关机身部件可以实现首次交付。
Which google translated to...
Hongdu Aviation Industry Group chief economist of Yang Liping, First Financial said on April 25, and listed companies Hongdu Aviation (600316.SH) to participate in the investment and development of the Falcon L15 advanced trainer this year plans to deliver 12 to Latin America and Africa The market, which is the first time the models exported to foreign markets.
Flood
Falcon L15 advanced trainer are Aviation Industry Group chief economist of Yang Liping, First Financial said on April 25, currently involved in the investment and development of listed companies Hongdu Aviation (600316.SH) planned for this year to the delivery of 12 Latin American and African markets This is the model for the first time exported to foreign markets.
Yang Liping, made the remarks during the Fourth China Aviation Industry Manufacturing International Summit ". The Hongdu Aviation enterprise of the the domestic professional production coach aircraft and general aircraft; Previously, the company's main product is a the Intermediate trainer aircraft K8 aircraft now occupy more than 75% of the market share of similar aircraft.
First Financial understands, L15 aircraft in terms of unit price or on the overall profit margin, are much higher than the K8 aircraft. An L15 catalog price of the aircraft in about 7000-8000 million can be achieved this year the first delivery of 12 L15 aircraft orders totaling nearly 960 million yuan, which is equivalent to the Hongdu Aviation 2011 1.825 billion yuan revenue of 54.79 %.
Hongdu Aviation 2011 annual reports of the year to achieve a net profit of 83.37 million yuan. 29.4775 million yuan the first three months of this year, according to the company a quarterly in 2012, the company accumulated a net loss and loss per share of 0.0411 yuan.
In this regard, Yang Liping said, the performance loss is mainly due to the product in the first quarter of this year, deliveries to reduce. He also pointed out that for aviation manufacturing enterprises, first quarter deliveries will be relatively small, and to the third quarter, will enter the fast delivery channel; related products this year, demand prospects can still be expected the Hongdu Aviation annual performance should stronger than last year.
Yang Liping further revealed that the trainer related products revenues accounted for about three-quarters of the company's total revenue; Apart trainer field continue to expand, the company is still increasing expansion of forestry general aviation aircraft manufacturing, currently agricultural airplanes improvements being developed to expand domestic and foreign markets.
Hongdu Aviation 7 with Xi'an Aircraft Industry Group, AVIC Aircraft Corporation, Jiangxi Province Investment Group jointly invested and established the Jiangxi Hongdu commercial aircraft company, the main domestic and international commercial aircraft parts, components, design , development, production, sales, maintenance and services, as well as aviation products subcontract production.
Yang Liping this revealed Hongdu Commercial Aircraft has been awarded a production-made large aircraft C919 the aircraft fuselage contract and supply Boeing 747-8 aircraft parts, expected first delivery in March 2013 fuselage parts.
poor translation but it puts the point across. . .and as you can see it's 12 L-15's for two customers n not 12 customers @Mogen. I'm speculating Venezuela and Kenya here.

@Jas
Yes, Kenya might be in that list. Articles I read were all unclear about the number. 12 units or sending units to 12 countries. But I understand the Chinese ordered a large number of engines from their Ukranian manufacturer. Perhaps, some of the units might be for the Chinese Airforce.

jasiri Fri Oct 05 2012, 09:59

The Chinese air force too i understand, has developed an appetite for these birds. However for me, i think this is in anticipation of follow up orders. I highly doubt if the KAF will settle for half a squadron of trainers, it doesn't make sense. Maybe this is the first batch of deliveries ama?

mogen Fri Oct 05 2012, 10:21

jasiri wrote:The Chinese air force too i understand, has developed an appetite for these birds. However for me, i think this is in anticipation of follow up orders. I highly doubt if the KAF will settle for half a squadron of trainers, it doesn't make sense. Maybe this is the first batch of deliveries ama?

Methinks, we need to read that article with a pinch of salt. I lived in China for a long time and speak and read/write their language well and I can tell you I haven't seen a country/government that is more paranoid about secrecy than China. Maybe Israel might rival them in that regard.

You might find they are actually shipping a squadron to each country and perhaps, several countries. The large number of engines ordered from Ukraine -also vague about exact number.

But if Kenya acquires a squadron the better.

Olekoima Fri Oct 05 2012, 11:26

cylon wrote:
jasiri wrote:
gash wrote:cmae across some news that chinese have unveiled j31 similar to us f35.anyone with some insight.

last time i read about LAB was that it was undergoing expansion and purpoted that it would be finished by feb this year.Risasi could you please give some little insight.
Along that line, something may have passed unnoticed by blog. Kenya may have received 6 Hongdu L-15 sometimes this year. I'm trying to hustle for a link lakini wapi! might this be the new birds Risasi n ON were tempting us with?

+1 i got some info too, but i hear they are Yak130's and it looks like KDF is looking to replace the F-5 fleet with some F-16's or the JF-17

Wapi link baba?

mogen Fri Oct 05 2012, 11:59

Olekoima wrote:
cylon wrote:
jasiri wrote:
gash wrote:cmae across some news that chinese have unveiled j31 similar to us f35.anyone with some insight.

last time i read about LAB was that it was undergoing expansion and purpoted that it would be finished by feb this year.Risasi could you please give some little insight.
Along that line, something may have passed unnoticed by blog. Kenya may have received 6 Hongdu L-15 sometimes this year. I'm trying to hustle for a link lakini wapi! might this be the new birds Risasi n ON were tempting us with?

+1 i got some info too, but i hear they are Yak130's and it looks like KDF is looking to replace the F-5 fleet with some F-16's or the JF-17

Wapi link baba?

Ole the entire article is attached above.

Risasi Fri Oct 05 2012, 13:54

YAK-130 and L-15
The yak-130 is a Joint-Venture between Aermacchi (Italy) and Yak (Russia) a standard Lead-in fighter training (LIFT) for 4GEN and above fighters. The aircraft was offered to china as a trainer too. The aircraft manufactured by the two Powers offered a great deal of 4.5Gen punch and aspect in a compact size fighter, but china what more than what the YAK-130 was offering in terms of specs.like any other trainer it was intended for Subsonic flights and was short range (yak-130). China therefore got rights to improve their version which include;

• They want to sell their aircraft as a trainer cum fighter they therefore increased it range to 3100km from 2000km similar other marketed 4 gen fighters.
• Increased its speed from subsonic 1000km/hr to supersonic 1500km.hr
• Ukrainian engines to avoid inter reliance of Russia engine Technology. Lesson learned from the FC-1.

Balozi Fri Oct 05 2012, 15:49

jasiri wrote:
cylon wrote:
jasiri wrote:
gash wrote:cmae across some news that chinese have unveiled j31 similar to us f35.anyone with some insight.

last time i read about LAB was that it was undergoing expansion and purpoted that it would be finished by feb this year.Risasi could you please give some little insight.
Along that line, something may have passed unnoticed by blog. Kenya may have received 6 Hongdu L-15 sometimes this year. I'm trying to hustle for a link lakini wapi! might this be the new birds Risasi n ON were tempting us with?

+1 i got some info too, but i hear they are Yak130's and it looks like KDF is looking to replace the F-5 fleet with some F-16's or the JF-17
There aint mush difference there ey? Though personally i believe the KAF will go for the L-15, cheaper more advanced version of the Yak...plus some chinese website i read a while back (sielewi chinese) claimed that China will deliver the L 15 to customers in Africa and Latin America...As for the fighters, id rather it was French.

Fellows they is a definitely new Air force and Army air assets as claimed by this main 3rd paragraph on this DN script.
http://www.nation.co.ke/Features/DN2/Inside+the+battle+for+Kismayu+/-/957860/1522838/-/item/2/-/frmca7/-/index.html

……both the 50ACB and KAF readied their more dangerous and advanced aerial assets for the onslaught. These reserved assets are yet to be used by KDF in any operation.

The MD500,Z-9 (50ACB) and F-5,(AF) have been seen/used in theater. that leaves us with one unused item for each unit. the 50ACB the Mi-28 and what about the AF?? a Fighter-X .... hidden or reserved somewhere someplace.
my 2 cents

jasiri Fri Oct 05 2012, 21:07

Risasi wrote:YAK-130 and L-15
The yak-130 is a Joint-Venture between Aermacchi (Italy) and Yak (Russia) a standard Lead-in fighter training (LIFT) for 4GEN and above fighters. The aircraft was offered to china as a trainer too. The aircraft manufactured by the two Powers offered a great deal of 4.5Gen punch and aspect in a compact size fighter, but china what more than what the YAK-130 was offering in terms of specs.like any other trainer it was intended for Subsonic flights and was short range (yak-130). China therefore got rights to improve their version which include;

• They want to sell their aircraft as a trainer cum fighter they therefore increased it range to 3100km from 2000km similar other marketed 4 gen fighters.
• Increased its speed from subsonic 1000km/hr to supersonic 1500km.hr
• Ukrainian engines to avoid inter reliance of Russia engine Technology. Lesson learned from the FC-1.

Nose wheel up for 15 mtrs hv...beautifull landing

cylon Sat Oct 06 2012, 07:24

I can see the KDF replacing its entire F-5 fleet with F-16 A and D models.. unless they have a surprise for us...

Guest Sat Oct 06 2012, 08:52

mogen wrote:
@Vitruvian
I beg to disagree. Why would we here[civilians and public fora like this one] want to know everything or about every newly acquired military asset of Kenya or any other country for that matter? I stand to be corrected but I dare say, not a single country in the world publicizes its complete inventory. Starting from countries in our our region please show me one which tells the world everything it has in its arsenal.

No, no military publicises its complete inventory and we do not really need to know everything. But militaries are not states unto themselves. They are accountable to the nation and wananchi they serve.
I hardly think that acquiring a fleet of jets can be labelled as classified. How do you conceal the fact? Shoot everyone who sees them on Madaraka Day? It would be ludicrous to imagine that, say, neighbouring intelligence communities are not aware of them, unless we’ve upgraded them to superstealth and are hiding them in secret underground hangars (well, yes, that would be classified).
So, who would we be hiding the assets from and why? Wananchi?
If we have such hardware, I am entitled to know that we do and how much it will cost me. I am not entitled to know any other details. If I do, there will be every justification to have me tried for espionage and shot.
Demystifying the KDF is good for the KDF. But perhaps the time for such a thing isn’t right. Perhaps we haven’t quite reached such a point in our democracy.
After all, our MPs and Government raise our taxes to stuff their own pockets, malign the constitution for their own political and economic expediency, turn tribe against tribe for the same ends, murder, rape and burn with impunity. And all we do is whine about it on forums such as these.

Sierra Kilo Sat Oct 06 2012, 09:40

Vitruvian wrote:
mogen wrote:
@Vitruvian

I beg to disagree. Why would we here[civilians and public fora like this one] want to know everything or about every newly acquired military asset of Kenya or any other country for that matter? I stand to be corrected but I dare say, not a single country in the world publicizes its complete inventory. Starting from countries in our our region please show me one which tells the world everything it has in its arsenal.
No, no military publicises its complete inventory and we do not really need to know everything. But militaries are not states unto themselves. They are accountable to the nation and wananchi they serve.
I hardly think that acquiring a fleet of jets can be labelled as classified. How do you conceal the fact? Shoot everyone who sees them on Madaraka Day? It would be ludicrous to imagine that, say, neighbouring intelligence communities are not aware of them, unless we’ve upgraded them to superstealth and are hiding them in secret underground hangars (well, yes, that would be classified).
So, who would we be hiding the assets from and why? Wananchi?
If we have such hardware, I am entitled to know that we do and how much it will cost me. I am not entitled to know any other details. If I do, there will be every justification to have me tried for espionage and shot.
Demystifying the KDF is good for the KDF. But perhaps the time for such a thing isn’t right. Perhaps we haven’t quite reached such a point in our democracy.
After all, our MPs and Government raise our taxes to stuff their own pockets, malign the constitution for their own political and economic expediency, turn tribe against tribe for the same ends, murder, rape and burn with impunity. And all we do is whine about it on forums such as these.

@Vitz 100% with you on this. There is a great difference between Espionage and accountability.

Kobooz Sun Oct 07 2012, 17:52

Kobooz wrote:
Risasi wrote:
Kobooz wrote:
Risasi wrote:Foot notes

Most 4Gen fighter (apart from F-15) was constructed to fighter
at the same speeds as 3gen fighter’s i.e 400-500knts which the F-5 can take
comfortable.

4gen fighter benefit from high reliability, high engine performance
and better weapons managements

A fighter just like any weapon is as good as its operator/pilot.

After what seemed to cause no considerable different between
3-4Gen. a new breed of planes have cropped up to widen the gap. They are call
4.5Gen fighter will discuss more.

With the Su30 Ug can be in minutes at over any point of their
country.

With the 20plus tiger KDF can mount continuous succession of
sustained attacks at several wide spreader targets after it has attained air dominance.

@Risasi, I have some very basic questions here
I am a regular f18 hornet flight simulator pilot, I should probably wear 500hours on my shoulders hahaha! Well 3 things
1. Most of the times I take off at full throttle (mostly from FOB msa - my favorite) coz the bird is made for sea carrier short runway take offs, now from the experience so far the G force (or what is it called while on the ground?) to me seems almost unbearable. Does this mean this class of bird is not for every other pilot?
2. I notice that when I go into a spin the bird seems to fly in zig zag pattern I guess because of the curved wing aerodynamics. Is there a mechanism to counter this brief loss of height? There is actually a lever for spinning but its inactive in flight simulator so i usually use the joystick.
3. When I get the over G warning while taking a dive it actually simulates pilot blackout, does it mean I must regularly watch the G force gauge, I find it demanding because when I scramble to chase another plane it means I must get to the target soonest thus the need to apply after-burner yet at the same time being able to manouver with very quick turns to position my self behind the target, while at the same time watching the radar in my cockpit, at the same time regulating speed......men, this must be a demanding job in a real cockpit! I salute you! no wonder it takes 5 years approx to make one a fighter pilot

I wish I had a simulator with capabilities to arm

A1.They is no need taking off at full throttle if it’s not a life threatening interception. You will burn unnecessary fuel and experience unnecessary G load. being in a simulator its not important otherwise you wouldn’t be doing that in real time.
A2. Spin = to?? Downward spiral or barrel roll. Which one. The first one requires training in order to handle it. 4Gen fighters can come out of it without the assistance of the pilot. The second one most likely are doing it under powered and experiencing stall. keep yourspeed at 350knt to avoid blackouts
A3. ya watch the G force meter and avoid get exposed to prolong G situation. go for a dive get inverted (upside down) then dive in a split S version you will have better control.
If you get into a merge at High energy (high speed) try the below maneuver.Turn with you nose slight pointed up in order to gain altitude which will slow your turn rate then dive back with your nose pointing behind your target to create distance.

From my assessment it seems you are chasing target all over in your dogfight till you get a shooting position. ??? up there in real time every chase or fight comes from a set of standard maneuver that you must have practiced before going for a fight. Every action is Choreography.several key subjects I would suggest you need to know in order to increase your dog fight capabilities and see a larger picture.

1. the Pursuit curves http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_fighter_maneuvers#Pursuit_curves

Lead pursuit
Slow moving air craft towards fast moving target or when you wish to close in the distance in a turn.
Lag purist
Fast moving toward a slow moving or wish to widen the distance in a turn
Pure purist.
Watch the bandit wile maintaining the distance. You must be at same speed with you bandit.

2. basic fighter maneuvers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_fighter_maneuvers#Maneuvers

3 dogfights 3 to 4 Gen fighter are done in the speed of 350Knts so keep it there.

I will send you a training clip of basic dogfight maneuvers to understand the nature of the trade and what it takes to use an aircraft as a weapon to kill but first you need to read and understand the above then the clip make sense.

Bullet man thanks a lot man, this is a whole lot of helpful literature and insights I will apply the lessons fro sure and obviously come back with more queries

By the way Risasi, the manouver delivered unprecedented results. By the time I finished the loop, the enemy's breath holes were right ahead of me even though we were not quite aligned so I need just a bit of turning and ready to lock. On another note I have also simulated some F5 tiger & F15 flights. I can confidently say that the F5 is special in its own way. The F18 is excellent at quick take offs + a good radar, the F15 is one monster that gains height like a miracle also + a good radar, amour capabilities etc. (well thats the little of their capabilities i know) but the F5 easily pulls manouvers that would have a not so experienced jet pilot crash the more advanced birds. So as you have always said here, an upgraded F5 + a good fighter pilot is quite a lethal asset

countersniper Sun Oct 07 2012, 18:03

kabooz...
that should answer some questions why the F5 is listed and operating in the USA military as a trainer/aggressor aircraft to date.they keep hundreds of them in service for this purpose.even NASA has some and used one of these to escort the retiring space shuttles being flown piggybacked onto a 747 across the states..
those who underestimate this do so at their own peril.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/Supporting-the-F-5-Aggressor-Fleet-05050/

Kobooz Sun Oct 07 2012, 19:40

Sure. By the time the US buys back units, its clearly says there is something in them. " “F-5Ns” are still routinely flown by American Navy and Marines adversary squadrons in training exercises, where they simulate small, low-cross-section (and hence hard to spot) enemies."

gash Mon Oct 08 2012, 16:59

could someone help me to come up with the difference between j17 and j10 if there is any difference.i would prefer for kaf to go f15 way.this bird have had very good air dominance. affraid

Olekoima Tue Oct 09 2012, 10:36

gash wrote:could someone help me to come up with the difference between j17 and j10 if there is any difference.i would prefer for kaf to go f15 way.this bird have had very good air dominance.

Scroll through these pages, you will find Risasi's detailed explanations on these birds. However this may be too much tasking hence i invite you to visit Wikipedia and find out the difference for yourself at your own free time.

HokumA Tue Oct 09 2012, 14:27

Nigeria has the L-39 Albatros and I hear the bird will see action in Mali as part of the ECOWAS peacekeeping forces. https://beegeagle.wordpress.com/2012/09/10/blog-exclusive-nigerian-air-force-aircraft-observed-in-frenzied-activity-deployment-for-combat-operations-in-mali-imminent/

Air Superiority Stealth Fighter Jets - Page 7 Alenia-atr42naf-930-and-albatros

Air Superiority Stealth Fighter Jets - Page 7 Alenia-atr42naf-930-and-albatros

Also the same Nigerians have upgraded their C-130H how I wish we had one of those we could have solved some of this transportation problems. https://beegeagle.wordpress.com/2012/09/21/african-airforce-chiefs-stress-the-need-for-top-aircraft-maintenance-facilities-naf-save-us3m-on-local-maintenance/

Air Superiority Stealth Fighter Jets - Page 7 Naf-c-130-herculesphotous-17th-air-force

Air Superiority Stealth Fighter Jets - Page 7 Naf-c-130-herculesphotous-17th-air-force

Batian Thu Oct 11 2012, 13:22

@Gash,

Worldwide F-35 especially (B) British is still under developmental flight testing and is a cheap option in cost and operation. The only problem with the Chinese birds is they lack combat experience. How are we to gauge their performance? There have also been brief comparisons at this blog between the J20 and the F-15 and 22 raptor. Since Kenya and uncle woo have entered into long term trade partnership, it gives the picture that kenya has turned oriental for purchasing military equipment. This is where @Risasi and crew need to come and gather the bits and pieces for us.

@Balozi,
50th ACB have rotary wings/ka-52 that can accomplish ardous of tasks you can think of. What the air-force can try to get is the fulcrums since Khartoum have their fulcrums.

@cyclon,

beggining the 50-ACB having any F-1x debate will as usual strike a raw-nerve.... let us keep it normal..better 50-ACB concentrate on getting fulcrums on top of the open future possibility of getting any Fighter-1X.

@kobooz,
Could it be johnny is trying to increase the number of their chaser planes?

jasiri Fri Oct 12 2012, 15:41

Worldwide F-35 especially (B) British is still under developmental flight testing and is a cheap option in cost and operation.

Dude, do even understand what you are saying? The F-35 is the single most problematic warplane in the history of U.S fighter x programes. Problematic engine, huge dev't costs overruns, problems with TOT, not to mention delays in delivery. By the time the first serial produced airplane was delivered it the type had been rendered useless by the Chengdu J-20.

The only problem with the Chinese birds is they lack combat experience. How are we to gauge their performance?

does the F-22, F-35, Su-30 or PAK-FA have any combat experience? that hasn't stopped people buying them ey?
Good to see the Nigerian brodas take their maritime security seriously, the ATR-42 is a big step in that direction.

Batian Sat Oct 13 2012, 09:56

[quote="jasiri"] Dude, do even understand what you are saying? The F-35 is the single most problematic warplane in the history of U.S fighter x programes. Problematic engine, huge dev't costs overruns, problems with TOT, not to mention delays in delivery. By the time the first serial produced airplane was delivered it the type had been rendered useless by the Chengdu J-20.

[Quote] does the F-22, F-35, Su-30 or PAK-FA have any combat experience? that hasn't stopped people buying them ey?[/quote ]

That is why I clearly asserted and said F-35 is under developmental flight testing where other countries that have them like Britain and Saudi Arabia get them on "advantageous" terms for weapons and flight testing missions. Problems of delivery and TOT can well be equated to producers probing their geo political interests before delivery. It is a common occurence if you ask.

Any bird under developmental flight testing is capable of bearing "problematic" flaws. Any latest production of Fighter-x is an improvement of a previous production version. It is needless to say and assume since ole man has turned Oriental for a trading ally that all of a sudden now the chengdu J-20 that has no combat credentials is measurable to the other well reknowned aggressors . Those would be the candid words of an alarmist..lol. [left]

Kobooz Sat Oct 13 2012, 12:14

The need to know.
What is the difference between a fighter pilot & a fighter bomber? is one considered superior? which one? some bits on their distinguishing roles would helo enlight.

cylon Sat Oct 13 2012, 20:01

Risasi, Ole, Jasiri

You know that kenyan guy Gabriel Nderitu who is building his plane, how come the KAF has never called him up to come test his craft at Moi Airbase i mean the guy has serious potential for Kenya's drone field. A few months back he made a microlight radio control craft that almost took off but was considerably heavy since he had a heavy engine on board( didn't give out enough power) The metals he used were too heavy, and his landing gear was very crude. All of these things can be fixed if he had some experienced technicians at the KAF to help him out a bit and let his dream begin. He could be very useful to the KDF-AF you guys take his design improve it with Kevlar carbon fiber body to make the plane light, increase engine power and decrease the noise, muffle the propeller system to make it more stealthy, add in advanced camera's and flight systems, and we have a drone...

Guest Sat Oct 13 2012, 20:06

cylon wrote:Risasi, Ole, Jasiri

You know that kenyan guy Gabriel Nderitu who is building his plane, how come the KAF has never called him up to come test his craft at Moi Airbase i mean the guy has serious potential for Kenya's drone field. A few months back he made a microlight radio control craft that almost took off but was considerably heavy since he had a heavy engine on board( didn't give out enough power) The metals he used were too heavy, and his landing gear was very crude. All of these things can be fixed if he had some experienced technicians at the KAF to help him out a bit and let his dream begin. He could be very useful to the KDF-AF you guys take his design improve it with Kevlar carbon fiber body to make the plane light, increase engine power and decrease the noise, muffle the propeller system to make it more stealthy, add in advanced camera's and flight systems, and we have a drone...

Seems to me you've answered your own question.

Sponsored content

Air Superiority Stealth Fighter Jets