Re: Air Superiority Stealth Fighter Jets

cylon Tue Dec 11 2012, 22:14

Are we still talking about birds kenya doesn't own? Unless KAF has plans to purchase them in the year 2030...

Or we are getting a KIT version of those eagles... we have better chances acquiring second hand falcons...

Risasi Wed Dec 12 2012, 08:58

proud kenyan wrote:
Risasi wrote:
Flying Crane wrote:
countersniper wrote:when did the last time the tigers were seen in public flight formation?

i believe it was last year 12 Dec .......???

@risasi i didn’t know it hurts that bad when a neighbour has a 4th gen fighter..... all what you posted above is mud sling erring

its not personal all missile guidance system operate in that way when in close proximity. once a channel has been engage you just have to wait until the missile strike home before using it for another target.however it is possible for two missiles ride toward the same target usingcoordinates that are being broadcasted on that frequency.

we should maybe even go the israeli way, or should we?
http://standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000072643&story_title=Kenya-Israeli-%27Mossad-Spy%27-captured-in-Sudan
this just made my day

I wouldn’t be surprised

add to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_dolphin#Training

HokumA Thu Dec 13 2012, 14:27

Uncle woo loves playing in the mad with Japan who seem to be taking this territorial integrity maneno very seriously, today (13th Dec 2012) Japan scrambled 8 F-15's and a E2C Hawkeye after a Harbin Y-12 on maritime surveillance flew over the Diaoyu islands.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/13/us-china-japan-scramble-idUSBRE8BC07920121213
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/news-by-industry/et-cetera/japan-scrambles-fighter-jets-as-chinese-plane-flies-over-disputed-isles/articleshow/17596731.cms

mogen Thu Dec 13 2012, 15:43

Amazing. Japan claims the Islands commonly known by the Chinese name Diao-yu [Diao = catch; Yu = fish].
Diaoyu Islands = Fishing Islands.

HokumA wrote:Uncle woo loves playing in the mad with Japan who seem to be taking this territorial integrity maneno very seriously, today (13th Dec 2012) Japan scrambled 8 F-15's and a E2C Hawkeye after a Harbin Y-12 on maritime surveillance flew over the Diaoyu islands.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/13/us-china-japan-scramble-idUSBRE8BC07920121213
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/news-by-industry/et-cetera/japan-scrambles-fighter-jets-as-chinese-plane-flies-over-disputed-isles/articleshow/17596731.cms

HokumA Thu Dec 13 2012, 18:26

The F-35 program is really getting out of hand, Canada had a budget of $9 - $15 billion to purchase 65 birds (including maintenance for a period of 20 - 30 years) but the price tag has hit $46 billion and climbing, if the Canadians cancel the order then the program might be bagged because even the USAF is looking for a replacement of a weapon system which has not been commissioned which speaks volumes about this bird.

http://www.businessinsider.com/canada-backs-out-of-f-35-deal-2012-12
http://www.businessinsider.com/canadians-are-outraged-over-expensive-us-gear-2012-12
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/12/12/f-vp-stewart-f35-jets.html

Lockheed won the bid to develop a 5th gen replacement of the aging USAF/allies fighters but from 1996 when the contract (USAF JSF program) was signed the bird has had issues raging from;

1. weight
2. Software issues (24 millions lines of code so far)
3. Cost overrun ($133 - $304.1 million based on pentagon estimates)
4. Stealth capability (downgraded from very low visibility to low visibility)
5. Helmet-mounted display system has had many issues
6. Payload (this bird has only two AA missiles but might be upgraded to six by 2019 which will negatively affect the radar cross section and add more weight to an already overweight bird)
7. Safety (No fire-suppression systems and failing air conditioning)

On paper this bird is what ever AF needs but it has very many defects and an obscene price tag which really endangers the whole program.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II

Air Superiority Stealth Fighter Jets - Page 10 File:F-35_Helmet_Mounted_Display_System

Air Superiority Stealth Fighter Jets - Page 10 File:F-35_Helmet_Mounted_Display_System

Sierra Kilo Thu Dec 20 2012, 23:41

A sudanese MIG Fighter Jet has crashed killing the pilot today. Military sources confirmed this and indicated that the Jet crashed while attempting to Land at El-obeid Airport after a military sortie in the volatile south kordofan state. This was however denied by eyewitnesses who said that the Aircraft crashed while attempting takeoff. The Airport at EL-Obeid is used for both military and civilian ops and the SAF has a squadron of MIG-23 floggers stationed there.

Air Superiority Stealth Fighter Jets - Page 10 Warpla10

Air Superiority Stealth Fighter Jets - Page 10 Warpla10

http://www.sudantribune.com/spip.php?article44929

Guest Fri Dec 21 2012, 09:27

Spartan wrote: (and Btw, Ethiopia is more likely to go to war with Ke than Uganda) and SU-30s to the west. But until dad unwraps the toys, I for one would find it prudent to remain silent.

@ Spartan don't expect Ke & Et to go to war....over what? we are planning mega billion infrastructural projects together from Lamu to Addis. we've been allies since the 70s when old jomo & haile sellasie entered a mutual defence agreement. just recently the new Et pm was in ke & signed many trade pacts. heck safaricom & other kenyan corporates may soon set up shop in Et.......it's a 90million market.....who won't salivate at that? It's the high time we realized that we need each other to grow development wise trade is what will lift our economies to middle income status not war.
I hope Tz also realizes this. in the past 5yrs the value of stuff tz is selling to ke has increased more than 5 fold. one could argue the value of stuff ke is selling to them has also tremendously increased & the balance heavily favours ke but everyone is benefiting if you ask me. why are our men in somalia? if crane bank, mukwano & other ug businesses can get a foothold in crazy town after the war...that would be worth the sacrifice. hint Kq is already considering launching flights between crazy town & nrb when it right. thats the way to go my brother

Sierra Kilo Sun Dec 23 2012, 09:28

mchoraji wrote:
Spartan wrote: (and Btw, Ethiopia is more likely to go to war with Ke than Uganda) and SU-30s to the west. But until dad unwraps the toys, I for one would find it prudent to remain silent.

@ Spartan don't expect Ke & Et to go to war....over what? we are planning mega billion infrastructural projects together from Lamu to Addis. we've been allies since the 70s when old jomo & haile sellasie entered a mutual defence agreement. just recently the new Et pm was in ke & signed many trade pacts. heck safaricom & other kenyan corporates may soon set up shop in Et.......it's a 90million market.....who won't salivate at that? It's the high time we realized that we need each other to grow development wise trade is what will lift our economies to middle income status not war.
I hope Tz also realizes this. in the past 5yrs the value of stuff tz is selling to ke has increased more than 5 fold. one could argue the value of stuff ke is selling to them has also tremendously increased & the balance heavily favours ke but everyone is benefiting if you ask me. why are our men in somalia? if crane bank, mukwano & other ug businesses can get a foothold in crazy town after the war...that would be worth the sacrifice. hint Kq is already considering launching flights between crazy town & nrb when it right. thats the way to go my brother

What Spartan mean is that due to the level of engagement between the people of Kenya and Uganda compared to Kenyans and Habesha, the possibility of conflict between is higher on the Kenya Ethiopia relationship not withstanding the magnitude of the projects in the pipeline. If you consider that Etiopia is a closed society and Kenya being an open one, chances of the Ethiopians feeling dominated by Kenyans in the business scene will be high. Even in the most recently penned bilateral agreement between Kenya and Ethiopia, some business ventures are still closed for kenyans to engage in Ethiopia.

Olekoima Sun Dec 23 2012, 13:57

Sierra Kilo wrote:
mchoraji wrote:
Spartan wrote: (and Btw, Ethiopia is more likely to go to war with Ke than Uganda) and SU-30s to the west. But until dad unwraps the toys, I for one would find it prudent to remain silent.

@ Spartan don't expect Ke & Et to go to war....over what? we are planning mega billion infrastructural projects together from Lamu to Addis. we've been allies since the 70s when old jomo & haile sellasie entered a mutual defence agreement. just recently the new Et pm was in ke & signed many trade pacts. heck safaricom & other kenyan corporates may soon set up shop in Et.......it's a 90million market.....who won't salivate at that? It's the high time we realized that we need each other to grow development wise trade is what will lift our economies to middle income status not war.
I hope Tz also realizes this. in the past 5yrs the value of stuff tz is selling to ke has increased more than 5 fold. one could argue the value of stuff ke is selling to them has also tremendously increased & the balance heavily favours ke but everyone is benefiting if you ask me. why are our men in somalia? if crane bank, mukwano & other ug businesses can get a foothold in crazy town after the war...that would be worth the sacrifice. hint Kq is already considering launching flights between crazy town & nrb when it right. thats the way to go my brother

What Spartan mean is that due to the level of engagement between the people of Kenya and Uganda compared to Kenyans and Habesha, the possibility of conflict between is higher on the Kenya Ethiopia relationship not withstanding the magnitude of the projects in the pipeline. If you consider that Etiopia is a closed society and Kenya being an open one, chances of the Ethiopians feeling dominated by Kenyans in the business scene will be high. Even in the most recently penned bilateral agreement between Kenya and Ethiopia, some business ventures are still closed for kenyans to engage in Ethiopia.

Well put @Siera Kilo, that is what i thought too.

Olekoima Thu Jan 10 2013, 18:49

F-15 is equal to SU-30?

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairfo/articles/20130110.aspx

Guest Sat Jan 26 2013, 16:03

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G-PXJ1lu24

Air Superiority Stealth Fighter Jets - Page 10 1358148802_13701_zps70ab5664

Air Superiority Stealth Fighter Jets - Page 10 1358148802_51114_zpsc219de9e

source: www.sinodefenceforum.com

countersniper Sat Jan 26 2013, 17:12

deconstructor wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G-PXJ1lu24

source: www.sinodefenceforum.com

I CANNOT MAKE SENSE OF THIS ? whats up ?what are these pictures please?

Guest Sun Jan 27 2013, 02:13

countersniper wrote:
deconstructor wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G-PXJ1lu24

source: www.sinodefenceforum.com

I CANNOT MAKE SENSE OF THIS ? whats up ?what are these pictures please?

It is a new Chnese flying UCAV. It has a very unique aerodynamic design.

Can anyone figure out the reason it has that wings like that?

Spartan Sun Jan 27 2013, 11:35

deconstructor wrote:
countersniper wrote:
deconstructor wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G-PXJ1lu24

source: www.sinodefenceforum.com

I CANNOT MAKE SENSE OF THIS ? whats up ?what are these pictures please?

It is a new Chnese flying UCAV. It has a very unique aerodynamic design.

Can anyone figure out the reason it has that wings like that?

That's a 'Soaring Dragon' High Altitude UCAV. The diamond-shaped wings give it gliding capabilities. Needless to say, gliding keeps the engine working at a bare minimum thereby reducing noise, and more importantly, its heat signature. It's mainly a reconnaissance vehicle. A better view from the pic below
Air Superiority Stealth Fighter Jets - Page 10 Sdrg02

Air Superiority Stealth Fighter Jets - Page 10 Sdrg02

For the usual kazi that's associated with drones, the Chinese have one that has a remarkable resemblance to Sammy's Predator drones
Air Superiority Stealth Fighter Jets - Page 10 FxmfE

Air Superiority Stealth Fighter Jets - Page 10 FxmfE

Olekoima Wed Jan 30 2013, 18:09

Something to ponder, what do you think of it@Risasi?:-
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairfo/articles/20130130.aspx

Sierra Kilo Sat Feb 02 2013, 20:58

Iran unveils new homemade fighter jet

Source: Reuters

Iran unveiled what it said was a new, domestically built fighter jet on Saturday, local media reported.

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said at a ceremony in Tehran that the Qaher 313 demonstrated Iran's growing self-reliance in the field of military technology.

Iran's functional air force has been limited to perhaps as few as a few dozen strike aircraft, either Russian or ageing U.S. models acquired before the 1979 Iranian revolution.

The Islamic Republic, under an international arms embargo, has long struggled to find spare parts and some military experts say the fleet is outdated.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/02/us-iran-military-idUSBRE91104G20130202

is this a game changer in the middle east???

MOOZALENDO Sun Feb 03 2013, 03:22

@SK is this for real or an exaggerated model? The air intakes look way too small and the wings? Risasi, please give us ratios of wing loading to get an aircraft off the ground man! I was particularly interested in the cockpit...I saw an helicopter with a more jammed cockpit than this stealth fighter or is it a case of "the more advanced, the simpler the cockpit?"

Moozalendo

Sierra Kilo wrote:

Iran unveils new homemade fighter jet

Source: Reuters

Iran unveiled what it said was a new, domestically built fighter jet on Saturday, local media reported.

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said at a ceremony in Tehran that the Qaher 313 demonstrated Iran's growing self-reliance in the field of military technology.

Iran's functional air force has been limited to perhaps as few as a few dozen strike aircraft, either Russian or ageing U.S. models acquired before the 1979 Iranian revolution.

The Islamic Republic, under an international arms embargo, has long struggled to find spare parts and some military experts say the fleet is outdated.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/02/us-iran-military-idUSBRE91104G20130202

is this a game changer in the middle east???

Risasi Sun Feb 03 2013, 08:13

Ngojeni kidogo I finish some issues pertaining ulinzi wa ang’aa then I come back to you Mr.Balozi (aircraft costs),Mr.Olekioma (Jas-39E , officially the prefered F-5 replacement), and Mr Mooz mean while lets changiya mjadala @ON. Give me a moment I be back in fact the answer for you guys is coincidentally all same.

Spartan Sun Feb 03 2013, 12:48

MOOZALENDO wrote:@SK is this for real or an exaggerated model? The air intakes look way too small and the wings? Risasi, please give us ratios of wing loading to get an aircraft off the ground man! I was particularly interested in the cockpit...I saw an helicopter with a more jammed cockpit than this stealth fighter or is it a case of "the more advanced, the simpler the cockpit?"

Moozalendo

Apparently, it can fly. Its whole concept seems to be to give the Iranians a tactical ability to respond to an invasion. It certainly isn't a long range fighter - I would pity any pilot who would have to endure even half an hour in the cockpit of that plane. I also noticed the wings are too small but that can be compensated for with a superior rocket-like engine, which it seems to have if you look at its design at the back.

But like they say, there's no true stealth plane.

mogen Tue Feb 05 2013, 05:12

Risasi Tue Feb 05 2013, 08:45

@mogen nice clip…All thanks to FBW (fly by wire) technology. You can fly in close proximity without fearing crosswind drafts collussions. @balozi there costing terminologies you need to get right before considering or discussing the prices of aircrafts esp. when it comes to fighter jets. this is why I ask if you knew what a QWI is. Jas answered you correctly, the cream de la crème of the AF. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualified_Weapons_Instructor#Overview
but why is a QWI called a QWI qualified weapons instructor yet his dealings revolves around the entire aircraft and not a single weapon. The answer; the entire aircraft is the weapon. when do we term an aircaft as a weapon? and a QWI the guy who knows the in and out ,capabilities and limitation of the weapon, the fighter aircraft.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQFvP23kSfk QWI F-16 course @ weapons training sch. netherland

The West military industries sell/advertise aircrafts in an aviation financial term referred to as FLYAWAY COST .
Flyaway cost is the aircraft cost with equipment’s that come as "standard" for every airplane i.e airframe, engines, navigation avionics. If its an F-16 its just a plain F-16 no weapons rack, no Dogfighting or Ground attack suits. To transformer it into a “weapon” you have to invest as much as 50% of the flyaway cost,50% more on Balozi western manufactured aircraft costing. the aircraft then becames a military weapon and its costing is reported as the WEAPONS PRICE or WEAPONS SYSTEM COST (the real deal). n.b still no missiles or bombs or their respective racks . The F-16 has several types of weapons configurations referred to as blocks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16_Fighting_Falcon_variants#Main_production_variants and therefore diffrent weapon price tags.
flyaway cost for a F-18 is US$ 58 million, but the weapons system cost gets higher by 40% to US$ 80million in order to transfer it into a formidable weapon.

Not surprisingly, western manufactures who want sell their aircrafts minimize the costs by report the "flyaway cost" as the purchase price. the East on the other hand sell units in the Weapons system cost estimates, with china offering deferent western avionic included in the purchase price a complete weapons . so they is no way a eastern aircaft will cost USD 5-7 Million less than a western conterpart.

When you get further down the road, buying a new type of an aircraft i.e like the Mi-28 or Su30 for KE and UG resp. the cost gets higher as you now have to deal with a PROGRAM ACQUISITION COST. A cost that covers weapons introduction, pilots and technical orientation, new hangers, warranties, AB servicing bays, translated into USD Twisted Evil

@iran...The Iranians are still very far from manufacturing a formidable fighter as tough as it might look. I guess all they did was assemble parts of different aircrafts under one stealthily looking hood. they have to fly the aircraft several hours i.e up to 500hrs in order to risk mounting a weapons system that cost millions of USD. otherwise every failure and crash will cost them those oil rigs. They also need to conduct a Life-cycle cost in order to determine if manufacturing and researching from zero is cheaper than buying. But all in all its a good direction in terms of innovation and experiences. Cool

Scrambling for market share, Saab offers the JAS 39E Super-Gripen as a conducive alternate from the west competing against the east esp. china for AFs upgrading into new middle class fighters. What SAAB did was to target the PROGRAM ACQUISITION COST by reducing it in maintain similar weaponry and aircraft dimension like past middle class fighters F-16,F-5,Mirage, MiG-29 and upped the avionic suit and the weapon payload capacity. Therefore it cost less to introduce this new aircraft into you existing facilities when you consider a PROGRAM ACQUISITION COST. sawa paka hapo? Very Happy

p/s maoni yenu kwa huyu mschana …..
http://world-military-x.blogspot.com/2011/11/chinese-l-15-supersonic-lead-in-fighter.html

Olekoima Wed Feb 06 2013, 18:39

Thanks @ Risasi for the detailed elaboration. Did you also say that the JAS-39E is the officially preferred replacement for the F-5? Does this then mean they are dropping the earlier touted F-15?
On a separate note, the mentioned trainer plane looks quite capable. I reckon it can come in handy for combat roles too. Are there enough of these available for export?

Guest Wed Feb 06 2013, 19:06

[quote="Olekoima"@ Risasi. Did you also say that the JAS-39E is the officially preferred replacement for the F-5? Does this then mean they are dropping the earlier touted F-15??[/quote]

The Bullet-man had posed a rhetorical query, not an inference of his present ride I.e Twin-Engined-Twin-Tailed-Tear-drop-high-view-canopy with no side-canards Mach2.5 Air Superiority hunting predator bird.

The JAS-39e is a "stop-gap" proposal along the path for growth. Despite its hyped selling points, against 4th and 4.5th Gen Birds, it is really a glorified 3rd Gen Fighter. The Sukhois at our 13H00 and 10H30 would make Samosas of the JAS-39e and serve it with a sweet-and-sour sauce on short order.

Cycoh 'DUDUS' Wed Feb 06 2013, 19:09

Olekoima wrote:Thanks @ Risasi for the detailed elaboration. Did you also say that the JAS-39E is the officially preferred replacement for the F-5? Does this then mean they are dropping the earlier touted F-15?
On a separate note, the mentioned trainer plane looks quite capable. I reckon it can come in handy for combat roles too. Are there enough of these available for export?

I think what the bulletman meant is that the tigers are about to be paced out with a quick replacement with the Jas Gripen (This might be anticipated as the second-line fighter with the eagle taking care of the first-line strategic fighters.) I don't think that ole Nkarei and Risasi can toil their uniform with such highly ventilated massive-misrepresentation-of-facts about the eagles Laughing

Do a fly-past with a double-seat bird Risasi and come along with O.N. stripped in the gunner's apartment. Very Happy

Cycoh 'DUDUS' Wed Feb 06 2013, 19:14

ole Nkarei wrote:The Bullet-man had posed a rhetorical query, not an inference of his present ride I.e Twin-Engined-Twin-Tailed-Tear-drop-high-view-canopy with no side-canards Mach2.5 Air Superiority hunting predator bird.

The JAS-39e is a "stop-gap" proposal along the path for growth. Despite its hyped selling points, against 4th and 4.5th Gen Birds, it is really a glorified 3rd Gen Fighter. The Sukhois at our 13H00 and 10H30 would make Samosas of the JAS-39e and serve it with a sweet-and-sour sauce on short order.

Lucky soldier! I was riding on your "Six"!!

Guest Wed Feb 06 2013, 19:26

Thanks @Cycoh. Felt your tap on my left shoulder.

The scepticism of Eagles in sub sahara is not misplaced. Not even a flypast Uhuru Park will convert all the sceptics. And there is the beauty of such a Strategic Asset.

Cycoh 'DUDUS' Wed Feb 06 2013, 22:51

ole Nkarei wrote:...Thanks @Cycoh. Felt your tap on my left shoulder.

The scepticism of Eagles in sub sahara is not misplaced. Not even a flypast Uhuru Park will convert all the sceptics.....

Yeah. And then there is the 'waiting' part. The most difficult of all. It gives you too much time to figure out, "What if".

....And there is the beauty of such a Strategic Asset....

Ouch, that one stung credibly nice.

Risasi Thu Feb 07 2013, 08:11

Ya that how it rolls in the aviation world. Google those terms to learn more. Laughing

Sorry for the confusions, what I meant is that SAAB is toting JAS-39E as the best candidate to AF upgrading/replacing their middle class fighters, F-5 owners being in that list, . It’s a statement from a seller to a buyer. Swiss airforce has picked it up
http://www.armedforces-int.com/news/saab-jas-39-gripens-for-swiss-air-force.html

N/b the mentioned trainers as a trainer and also low intensity combat bird. We need some mules to do that Donkey work against Ak-47 welded Khat chewers or blood thirsty red eye jamaas somewhere some place in the Kenyana hemisphere. Woo craft will fit our budgetary requirement for such sorties. Twin tails will be humble escorts, an overhead umbrella in and out those low intensity sorties . Very Happy

reserved primarily for high escalation combat scenarios.
Our cats, Botswana is eying them to replace/integrate with his Canadian versions. Still no deal yet. he got to push some papers at Pentagon first. our cats his stop gap before he mass' funds for a fully fledge Woos Program Acquisition AF deal.
KDF policies is changing very fast. Expect to see official cross border campaigns and strikes in hot spots area around kenyana once some pending Woos item arrive.
P/S
Mumeona cousin Barry akiguruma kwa TV last week ,his last term I believe he will dish out some good defensive packages and we expect a (barry) visit somewhere next year this time to KE. Hopefully Mama Clinton replaces cousin Barry in 4yres to come. She too like the husband holds good policies for black Africa.

jasiri Thu Feb 07 2013, 12:28

KDF policies is changing very fast. Expect to see official cross border campaigns and strikes in hot spots area around kenyana once some pending Woos item arrive.

While i'm safely trotting along in a prop. Evil or Very Mad

timoh Thu Feb 07 2013, 13:29

so how many twin-tailed, twin-engined are we talking abt exactly?

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