Kenya Defence Force

Spartan wrote:@ ole Nkarei, if you are a soldier, all you want to know is that provisions are there when you need them. If those provisions are state-of-the-art and instill fear in your real and imagined enemies, the better. Whether the money was termed 'domestic arrears', defence expenditure for that FY, borrowed from the treasury, grant, a loan, no soldier cares. We are not economists (never mind that some of us may have studied it at university).

The purchase of the jets was a one-off expenditure, hopefully. And it's not as if life came to a standstill because of it. All ministries had an increment in their vote allocations. We had to do it at some point, the naysayers notwithstanding. And that point was last year.

Don't even get me started with Kenya's numbers, our defence expenditure is nothing compared to yours. But if a citizen asked you where your accountability is, what would you have to show for it? Do neighbours marauding pastoral tribes from neighbouring countries get chilly backsides at the mention of KDF? What if someone from the famine-prone pastoral areas contended that part of your defence expenditure would rather be put in waters dams for their cattle so that they wouldn't have to cross to Uganda every year. You don't have any wars now or in the near future, do you? Has Kenya really got value for money in all the purchases you've done.

Didn't someone say the proof of the pudding is in the eating? Well, Kenyans may never know, because their equipment is not about to be used anytime soon. At least Ugandans, albeit weary of the cost to say the least, have confidence in the UPDF as shown in annual surveys.

Enough already with the cost of the planes, shall we move on now, gentlemen?

Vitruvian wrote:I am not a uniform and will leave technical answers to others. What rank of officer should command a recruit training school is not my speciality. You may be right, Mzalendo. If a lt. colonel is all it takes, we may very well learn from you. But perhaps the complexities and demands of our training schools as compared to, say, Tz are such that a major general is required.

This is a relative consideration, dependant on Doctrine and and derived Strategy - how deep to train, at each level of the command structure; what contigencies for War Mobilisation. It is not a point of disagreement I reckon, but for a healthy exchange of informative debate.

With our relatively vast resources, we could indeed have a military that would instill awe and terror in the entire region. We could reallocate money currently being used for education, agriculture, infrastructure, etc., and purchase, overnight, all manner of MiGs, Sukhois and the latest in helicopter technology, in quantities that would bring tears to the eyes of the most rugged generals. If Kenya were to spend 25% of her GDP on military purchases, as Ole Nkarei informs us Uganda did (though 750 million can't be 25% of Uganda's GDP), then we could easily afford, say, 250 Su-30's or a similar number of JAS 39 Gripens or F-15Es or 5,000 second-hand upgraded F-5s, at the Jordanian going rate. Make sense to you? It takes money to buy weapons. It takes a strong economy to mint money. Lest we forget, it took a stronger economy to bring down the USSR. Not a stronger army.

Pls correct the 25% to be the Defense allocation to Generalised National Budgets. Note that this includes the amount dished out for the Sukhois. National Budget is appro. Usd3.8Billion with about USD921 Million allocated to Defense. Blame my tired eyes, if you want!!
Generally I flow with the gist of your post on this specific matter, Vitruvian.

This forum will inform you that there is a realignment in Kenya's military doctrine and stratategies in response to the changing geopoitical dynamics. It is no secret that Kenya is rearming. The secret is to what extent. That which is visible to the naked eye is alarming. That which is hidden is more so. But if there is something Kenya has achieved that her neighbours will not for several generations to come, because it does take time, it is the level of professionalism of its officer corps and rank and file. Power without control is nothing. Israel is a case in point.

If Msalendo choses to lobe brickbraks across the border, I will just lie down now and surrender. No value in that sort of exchange. Any other sort of engagement I shall be happy to enjoin myself - for instance, dwelve into Kenya's Military Spending, its Structure and Strategic Organisation, Philosophy, Deployment, Equipment. Poke holes into any of these, if you want and lets debate, wee Shee!!

mzalendo wrote:They is no gauntlet to pick. Not from what I know from the modern Kenay

Ok you want facts here are facts.
you guys lag in military ideas. Mswahili says. Kitu kisicho fanana na mwenyewe huwa nicha kuiba.. not so?

How could you have a full Major General be Incharge of a Recruit training school? Surely where dose that happen in these modern worlds. the school should be under a Lt.Col or Col.

General Doudi Tonje suggested a General in charge of in the Western command and a General in charge of Easter Command. An American style. Such structures are need in large nation and not the nation the size of Kenya. Just because it exist some where it does mean you should have it.

How could you let your fighter jets get redundant and yet you don,t have plans on how you should replace them.

look at the quality of you navy…..man. Surely. KNS shujaa armed with 2 guns only that’s what you navy corps can come out with in a design????? I remember when I was young I think in 1985 I come to Kenya Navy for its anniversary, I come with our combined Tz Forces choir to sing for the occasion and my friend we felt inferior by the standards we met.

After the the Brits with draw from Kenya bro, you guys showed us your true colors. Its like a guy who receive inheritance and doesn’t know what to do with it. He feels confident that the cash is too much to finish. His decisions and directs are betraying him. Your military structures are not up to the modern standards for that economy. Had it been Rwanda or the Goss making such silly amateur structures I would have agreed.

sisi bwana hatuna pesa and we lag back merely because we had embraced communism at one time.so are other surrounding countries, economically. But all in all if we had the same income and expenditure then lo and be hold

ole Nkarei wrote:
Should we be letting our ‘insides’ out on these blogs? Doggone, feels like my b-lls are dangling naked off a table-top!!

Vitruvian wrote:


Heh, heh! Just pray there's no general doing the rounds with a golf club.

ole Nkarei wrote:Hey Mwaura, great to touch again! You recall that Immunity Act and the dust it kicked up couple of years ago?- we still didn't sign the dang thing! Well, this time it is the Chinaman's preponderant egress in our Security Net - civilian and military – this is an incredible launch-pad for China’s take-over of ‘’Kenyana’ from the Americans/Brits/French’.

Increasing recent talk about the JF-17, though it might turn out to be a counter-feint to Uncle Sam to stop with the arm-twisting. The Deliveries to Saudi and ISAF apparently pushed back, some R & D-phase delays I think, which impacts on the supply-funnel of our birds. Last I heard last week, Congress gave fresh clearance to complete Air-testing of the F-35 (same birds slotted for the ISAF and the Saudis) .

But there is an acceleration of pace with our Modernization of Air Field Infrastructure (MAFI) project on the ‘’primary homes’’ ( LAB definitely, probably Wajir as well!)for these birds (Instrument Landing Systems (ILS) and Doppler VHF Omni-directional Range Systems (DVOR) with the secondary phases of this Country-wide multiple-site turnkey integrated system in due course with the first deliveries. Not sure timeframes.

I suspect the Vickers Mk3’s will simply fall off the shelf – the intended full-compliment of the replacement T-72AVs not reached due to the negative Faina manenos, but I expect this will resume in short order – topping off around 400 Units. Haven’t a clue about the choice of replacement for the Buffalo, but ‘Georiise’ mentions one credible option on the table.

As concerns MV Jasiri, a unified Gava speaking from the same side of the mouth will unlock her delivery. Some chaps are very unforgiving no matter that they strut around with the tag ‘’development partners’’!!

Should we be letting our ‘insides’ out on these blogs? Doggone, feels like my b-lls are dangling naked off a table-top!!

Vickers Mk.3M: $8-9 million

Type 45 Daring Destroyer: $1.6 billion(!) fully fitted (yes, that’s what the UK is paying. It gets worse – they lack ASW systems)

Admin wrote:@ blog the new skin is up on test lets see where we will settle at. Your comments are highly valued.

jasiri wrote:Mwaura what about the Type 99? costs almost as much as a Merc Limousine and performs nearly as good as most new generation tanks

MWAURA wrote:

jasiri wrote:Mwaura what about the Type 99? costs almost as much as a Merc Limousine and performs nearly as good as most new generation tanks

Actually,jasiri,the site seems to show while Chinese equipment is cheaper than the Western equivalents it compares with Russian prices. Their type 99 is in the same range with the t-90 at 4.5 mn$. Btw,everyone says good things about it.

mJESHI mMOJA wrote:

MWAURA wrote:

jasiri wrote:Mwaura what about the Type 99? costs almost as much as a Merc Limousine and performs nearly as good as most new generation tanks

Actually,jasiri,the site seems to show while Chinese equipment is cheaper than the Western equivalents it compares with Russian prices. Their type 99 is in the same range with the t-90 at 4.5 mn$. Btw,everyone says good things about it.

The ZTZ-99/type 99G has more options then the T-90


Finally back from Mtongwe. Habari ni kwamba the Navy has been impressively reinforced. The Two Corvettes are back from Spain and a smaller boat from France has joined the family. Watch this space for pictures a long the week.

The Kenyan Navy's two Nyayo-class fast attack craft - missile, KNS Nyayo and KNS Umoja, which were undergoing a refit which will see them lose their surface-to-surface missile (SSM) systems and effectively reduce the vessels to a patrolling configuration left Fincantieri's Muggiano shipyard in Italy on 9 July 2011. The ships that were originally to be returned to service in 2010, left the shipyard 15 months later than planned. When the craft arrived in Italy by semi-submersible dock ship, it was clear that the platforms and shipboard systems were in a worse condition than expected. In addition, hitherto unknown quantities of asbestos had to be removed safely. This necessitated an agreement between Fincantieri and the Kenya Ministry of Defence on an extended work package beyond the 12-month refit originally intended. The additional contract was signed in September 2010.The shipbuilder renewed about one-third of the hull structural steelwork, platform systems and furnishings, comprehensively overhauling and upgrading the propulsion, electrical, navigation, communications, ventilation / air-conditioning and sewage systems. "We have completed around 87 tonnes of hull plate replacement and deck renewal [out of a total of 130 tonnes]," said Gian Battista Corbetta, the head of Fincantieri's refitting department. The four Paxman Valenta 18 V diesels (each rated at 2,830 kW), four shaft lines and three Caterpillar Type 3306 generator sets (170 kVa each) were overhauled and the propellers replaced. A new Seastema platform and propulsion automation system was also introduced. Both vessels achieved a maximum speed of 36 kt during re-acceptance

mJESHI mMOJA wrote:

F-5E – replacement and F-5EM with Jf-17/J-10/ F-15(pending)/MiG35?(pending production 2016) /undeclared

jasiri wrote: The only logic behind this move by the navy is that they are planning to leave the heavy weapons to a class of better equipped more displacing vessels set to be acquired, that's why they are relegating the older vessels to a coastguard role. IMHO, this makes absolute sense.