Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

GreyArea Thu Mar 13 2014, 14:41

Hi Guys

Been following the discussion and though I am not a military guy I want to add a couple of things...

Are there any body markings that can identify one who has been soldiering at some point in his life?

I mean something like calloused feet from hours of marching in army boots....

Also I recall hearing that in 82' when searching for AF servicemen they were checking if guys had a mark on the shoulder from slinging a rifle from a strap for years...

Are these things that we should consider the body to have?

On photographing the face, I believe funeral parlours have make-up they use on bodies when they are going for open casket funeral ceremonies...this might work, they ID can also be scuffed and aged to further obscure the details of the picture...

proud kenyan Thu Mar 13 2014, 16:44

Risasi wrote:to spike up the discussion , I think you fellas are under estimating the enemy. may it linger in the back of your minds that we can fool the local militias (due to lack of counter intelligence experiences) but among them is a band wagon of very experienced foreign jihadist . jihadist that have almost 10 yres experiences in between their hands i.e encountered lots of dead marines and allied forces somewhere in the Kandahar or Kashmir provinces . so lets be careful on how we plan to fool them. it has to be prefect and right at the first instants

the above ingredient suits your ops , then gentlemen you are still non starters...
we talked about ID cards cellphones etc
remember you fellas unanimous agreed that the body would be an unclaimed one from our city morgues, you all agreed that he should have some sort of identification . so the questions are

1. how do we photograph that chalk white dead face to make that iD card urgently required for authentication? or should we just leave the iD issue a side.

2. still on the dead corpse . do you honestly think pumping in bullets at an already dead body, the wounds would look similar to those inflected in real time???

3.a standard/normal cellphone consist at least +80 names and numbers sms etc. how sure are we that the enemy wouldn't try contacting several numbers randomly to pass that "friendly condolences message" just to be sure ???

tumalize hiyo before we proceed.

@Risasi the resources we have here are not the same as the ones you have,plus its a "first op" for some of us here (me included) Laughing

at least you are giving guidance on tying up the loose ends here and there.
1. If possible, I would go after some enemies who seem to fit the physicality and athleticsm of the KDF, and target him in an ambush where the shots would be as real as they come but also without the accuracy expected from the enemy,or even capture. the reasoning behind this is the enemy would, in addition to getting the 'intel',there would arise suspicion on informants and traitors among their ranks. with time,fighting an unknown and unseen enemy from within + a known enemy they can see would take them to the point of paranoia,and later a demoralised fighting unit. The unclaimed bodies from the morgue can come in later if no other 'donor' is available.
2. Photographing the chalk white dead face: if the hunters in 1 above can capture and photograph, the id documents would be sorted...
3. Numbers on cell phone: Have a safaricom sim card planted on his person, along with the phone containing a local simcard,eg. hormuund for somalia, and containing two or three numbers the enemy is known to want to go after, e.g. mum, sweetheart, dad; accompanied with some sms from them, and the rest can be numbers from other soldiers based in rearguard and instructed on what to answer when called (about 50 would suffice).
the good thing about using their own is that you can expose the captives to their own to shoot and thereafter go after them to sell the story some more.

hope I havent changed the plot of the mission so much, otherwise @ Bulletmen you can proceed.

Flying Crane Thu Mar 13 2014, 16:45

mchoraji wrote:
kimiti wrote:Ideal if he is of a descent that is acceptable to do recon activities i.e you can't send a guy from luo who doesn't know the local dialect. Not ideal for information gathering.

I also think we've mixed things up.if he was just gathering intelligence before an attack, one would expect someone of a similar extraction as the local community who looks just like them, speaks their language & can easily bled un-noticed.However, we had said this guy would be in a KDF party that gets into a fire-fight with the enemy & apparently one is felled & his colleagues are ''over-run'' hence leave without him.If we include too much stuff, the brigands if they have sharp minds will see it's too good to be true.The map with possible targets, a mobile phone, military ID, money yes.ATM cards, digital cam....would be going a little over-board

what your talking about are spies. they have blend in with the local community.....

mbs Thu Mar 13 2014, 20:26

my take. Identify a target from a funny 'madrasa'. create fake documents from his existing documents. Pick him up days before his mission, prep him (shaving maybe, diet,) incapacitate hours before fake fire fight. pump necessary lead into him during the fire fight and withdraw leaving him behind with all the 'fake documents'. only hard bit would be the shootout would have to be a real shootout, hard to fake them I think.

GreyArea Fri Mar 14 2014, 04:05

mbs wrote:my take. Identify a target from a funny 'madrasa'. create fake documents from his existing documents. Pick him up days before his mission, prep him (shaving maybe, diet,) incapacitate hours before fake fire fight. pump necessary lead into him during the fire fight and withdraw leaving him behind with all the 'fake documents'. only hard bit would be the shootout would have to be a real shootout, hard to fake them I think.

Its a good angle to keep him on warm ice, if you extract a combatant from other arenas...

mchoraji Fri Mar 14 2014, 10:09

Agree mixed up the two a bit.but as @ Proud Kenyan has indicated, it's a ''first op'' for some of us.Can Risasi tell us what next since I think we've explored all angles up to this point.
About spies, with drones & other such intelligence gathering modes that put the men in little harm, I guess their use can be limited to where absolutely necessary

Risasi Fri Mar 14 2014, 11:58

hehehhe kime umana?
My ops colleague whispered virtual info. Which I find interesting so lets share.

Factors on unclaimed bodies.
Unclaimed bodies are certified as unclaimed only after period of time not less than 3 months in a morgue. By this time the body has been shifted in and out of refrigeration, in short man handle and ends up in a pile somewhere in the corner of the morgue. Therefore the physical state of the body is usually bad and mere handling leads to skin peel off if chemical preservative (dawa ya maiti) and natural decay stench hasn,t cropped in.

Its almost impossible to get a body of an athletic fit and well fed African Kenyan male listed as unclaimed. Most unclaimed bodies share similar backgrounds. Homeless persons. Street kids aka chokoras, road side families, old people that migrated to the city and nobody knows where they came from, accident victims from hit and run incidents i.e the physique and state of the body wouldn,t fit our marehemu.

So tupa mbali sana hiyo mambo ya marehemu from the unclaimed body section , the physique wouldn’t fit that of the required John doe.

kazi mbaya go back to your drawing board laddies and gentlemen Very Happy

Kamalet Fri Mar 14 2014, 12:52

As an option this needs a captured AS KIA being used as the body has features of a local and overcomes the problems of getting a body for the decoy. As it is not exactly normal to carry cellphones and ID cards, tags with a name can easily pass unless ID is used for a badly mutilated head with little recognition.

Risasi Fri Mar 14 2014, 13:36

@kamalet...kamata the below before we revisit your suggestions... Very Happy

@MBS I don,t get your contribution ….do you mean we should capture a Kenyan citizen murder him and pose him as the Marehemu???

The ops went well ,Chai town was captured in confusing manner to our enemy. AS had shift their valuable asset to Jana Cabdalla 40 km from Kismayo the expected point of insertion. KDF spiced the bait by mounting a dummy force at jana cabdalla http://kismaayodaily.com/?p=6537

Ok let’s fast forward well into the incident. If you guys can,t play the good guys at least make my day be Good bad guys. Laughing

Green Vs. Red.
All TEA members switch to RED …ASP
Info.
Villagers scrabbled across a Marehemu. The AS found the documents and particulars to them that was the day that the lord had made, they will rejoice and be glad in him. their jihadist mentors take precaution measure and decide to poke holes in the story…..
Do the honors TEA members . join the AS counter intelligence team, its time for you fellas to poke holes in the story.

A dead KDF body
iD , ATM cards
cash $ & KSH
Digital cam
Maps with info.
Cellphone
binoculars

jasiri Fri Mar 14 2014, 13:45

jasiri Fri Mar 14 2014, 13:59

Ask does have 5.56 round. I think it's 5.56*45 round please google mimihapa in handheld. Ok, so it seems we had a open licence hapa. We have a lot of ex-servicemen serving time, ad policemen to the list. Now I know these ex disciplined members are still subject to martial law and so wako fit. Is it impossible to get one of them, preferably one on treason charges, to serve one last time? Risasi u changed IFF codes before my appearance? Mad

Risasi wrote:hehehhe kime umana?
My ops colleague whispered virtual info. Which I find interesting so lets share.

Factors on unclaimed bodies.
Unclaimed bodies are certified as unclaimed only after period of time not less than 3 months in a morgue. By this time the body has been shifted in and out refrigeration, in short man handle and ends up in a pile somewhere in the corner of the morgue. Therefore the physical state of the body is usually bad and mere handling leads to skin peel off if chemical preservative (dawa ya maiti) and natural decay stench hasn,t cropped in.

Its almost impossible to get a body of an athletic fit and well fed African Kenyan male listed as unclaimed. Most unclaimed bodies share similar backgrounds. Homeless persons. Street kids aka chokoras, road side families, old people that migrated to the city and nobody knows where they came from, accident victims from hit and run incidents i.e the physique and state of the body wouldn,t fit our marehemu.

So tupa mbali sana hiyo mambo ya marehemu from the unclaimed body section , the physique wouldn’t fit that of the required John doe.

kazi mbaya go back to your drawing board laddies and gentlemen

Simbamundu Fri Mar 14 2014, 16:57

Hi Soldiers/Civies,

Newbie in town.
I have been lurking in the shadows like forever and having mustered enough courage I hereby beg to be inducted into the ranks.

Hoping to be of +ve use to the blog as a civie.

@Risasi, not to belittle your resilience, depth and insights but 2 people one handle nini?
One, good command of johny's mother tongue, and concise train of thought (Ole Nkarei chini ya maji)?....The other, good military stuff but sloppy on the expression. Just saying.

Not sticking my neck out there scouting for enemies in the blog though.
I sincerely hope that this does not get me dishonourably discharged even before I settle in.

SS Jamuhuri Fri Mar 14 2014, 18:56

I think this op needs some assistance from Kina Cyco Dudus in looking for the person with the right physique...look for the condemned and try to give them a chance to do good..alternatively, scout for wanted criminals... Jasiri's option was also on my mind but didnt want to present it cz i dont knw the reaction it would evoke. at some point we'll have to delve into murky waters...(hope civil/evil society arent reading ths)

On A.S. Counter Intel..if i was them id first question the contents in the wallet....i think having an ID, Carrying business cards n all is an overkill. why carry an ID yet Sgt Marehemu has dog tags? And why doesn't he have a pic or something of sentimental value? After all he is human...and he can have the money in the pockets rather than carry a wallet..and the dating of the pics on the camera... what would a soldier be doing with a camera with intell gathered a week or so ago. shouldn't that info be with the superiors? Just my two cents...

Gallahad Fri Mar 14 2014, 19:10

Good stuff @Risasi.

Ok, now to switch sides.

First thing is to look at the body,and the condition of hair, teeth, hands, feet, look for vaccination marks on rhe arms. Try to determine his diet all this to determine if the body is really Kenyan and when he died

Second look at his kit, uniform and personal items. If atm cards are found use assets in Kenya to find out if the account exists, if contacts are found do they exist? Question the legend.

GreyArea Fri Mar 14 2014, 20:04

@SS Jamuhuri, valid points there...why carry personal info on a recon mission? Should be against protocol No? About condemned I dont think it would work...would he have to sign some waiver? ( he has family) Too many moving parts IMO

@Gallahad I dont know how I missed that when I posted about markings...vaccinations are a dead giveaway. Kenya does one different from all of EAC.

Risasi Fri Mar 14 2014, 20:12

@newbie karibu
@SS jamhuri do the intial stand for Senior sergeant ?? .....this the second near perfect guess you made Very Happy

I will be watching you
@galland your post-mortems come out as Kenyan++. give me time I will get info. on what happens to the ATMS and iD (another good shot)

yap we need akina Cycoh Dudus to complete the missing links

SS Jamuhuri Fri Mar 14 2014, 20:41

Risasi wrote:@newbie karibu
@SS jamhuri do the intial stand for Senior sergeant ?? .....this the second near perfect guess you made I will be watching you
@galland your post-mortems come out as Kenyan++. give me time I will get info. on what happened to the ATMS and iD (another good shot)

yap we need akina Cycoh Dudus to complete the missing links

on the contrary...im just a civy...dont read much into the SS...

Risasi Fri Mar 14 2014, 20:56

SS Jamuhuri wrote:
Risasi wrote:@newbie karibu
@SS jamhuri do the intial stand for Senior sergeant ?? .....this the second near perfect guess you made I will be watching you
@galland your post-mortems come out as Kenyan++. give me time I will get info. on what happened to the ATMS and iD (another good shot)

yap we need akina Cycoh Dudus to complete the missing links
on the contrary...im just a civy...dont read much into the SS...

point taken

Risasi Fri Mar 14 2014, 21:02

Just for info. And clarifying earlier postings and suspicions
KDF Like any professional and national Force is not for the business of killing taxpayers. we are professionals.
We would never murder unarmed civilians in order to achieve military goals & objectives. you are in safe hands Very Happy

boys and girls

ok RED team lets share

mbs Fri Mar 14 2014, 21:49

Risasi wrote:@kamalet...kamata the below before we revisit your suggestions...

@MBS I don,t get your contribution ….do you mean we should capture a Kenyan citizen murder him and pose him as the Marehemu???

I meant there are alot of people who wont be missed if they went missing ie Alshabab low rank supporters or even hardcore criminals

Balozi Fri Mar 14 2014, 23:08

SS Jamuhuri wrote:I think this op needs some assistance from Kina Cyco Dudus in looking for the person with the right physique...look for the condemned and try to give them a chance to do good..alternatively, scout for wanted criminals... Jasiri's option was also on my mind but didnt want to present it cz i dont knw the reaction it would evoke. at some point we'll have to delve into murky waters...(hope civil/evil society arent reading ths)

On A.S. Counter Intel..if i was them id first question the contents in the wallet....i think having an ID, Carrying business cards n all is an overkill. why carry an ID yet Sgt Marehemu has dog tags? And why doesn't he have a pic or something of sentimental value? After all he is human...and he can have the money in the pockets rather than carry a wallet..and the dating of the pics on the camera... what would a soldier be doing with a camera with intell gathered a week or so ago. shouldn't that info be with the superiors? Just my two cents...

GreyArea wrote:@SS Jamuhuri, valid points there...why carry personal info on a recon mission? Should be against protocol No? About condemned I dont think it would work...would he have to sign some waiver? ( he has family) Too many moving parts IMO

@Gallahad I dont know how I missed that when I posted about markings...vaccinations are a dead giveaway. Kenya does one different from all of EAC.

I think the cue cards of the story came from this incident
http://www.longwarjournal.org/threat-matrix/archives/2012/09/shabaab_displays_bodies_kenyan.php

iDs ATm cards and cellphones were indeed found
coincidentally the incident also happened 2 weeks before the onslaught of kisimayo in the darkness of the night. Laughing

foreign jihadists like Abu Mansour al Amriki were also mentioned

SS Jamuhuri Sat Mar 15 2014, 10:26

Balozi wrote:
SS Jamuhuri wrote:I think this op needs some assistance from Kina Cyco Dudus in looking for the person with the right physique...look for the condemned and try to give them a chance to do good..alternatively, scout for wanted criminals... Jasiri's option was also on my mind but didnt want to present it cz i dont knw the reaction it would evoke. at some point we'll have to delve into murky waters...(hope civil/evil society arent reading ths)

On A.S. Counter Intel..if i was them id first question the contents in the wallet....i think having an ID, Carrying business cards n all is an overkill. why carry an ID yet Sgt Marehemu has dog tags? And why doesn't he have a pic or something of sentimental value? After all he is human...and he can have the money in the pockets rather than carry a wallet..and the dating of the pics on the camera... what would a soldier be doing with a camera with intell gathered a week or so ago. shouldn't that info be with the superiors? Just my two cents...

GreyArea wrote:@SS Jamuhuri, valid points there...why carry personal info on a recon mission? Should be against protocol No? About condemned I dont think it would work...would he have to sign some waiver? ( he has family) Too many moving parts IMO

@Gallahad I dont know how I missed that when I posted about markings...vaccinations are a dead giveaway. Kenya does one different from all of EAC.

I think the cue cards of the story came from this incident
http://www.longwarjournal.org/threat-matrix/archives/2012/09/shabaab_displays_bodies_kenyan.php

iDs ATm cards and cellphones were indeed found
coincidentally the incident also happened 2 weeks before the onslaught of kisimayo in the darkness of the night. foreign jihadists like Abu Mansour al Amriki were also mentioned

@ Balozi...i get ur point..but what i was wondering is if soldiers on a Recce mission are allowed to carry all that...

Balozi Sat Mar 15 2014, 15:57

SS Jamuhuri wrote:
Balozi wrote:
SS Jamuhuri wrote:I think this op needs some assistance from Kina Cyco Dudus in looking for the person with the right physique...look for the condemned and try to give them a chance to do good..alternatively, scout for wanted criminals... Jasiri's option was also on my mind but didnt want to present it cz i dont knw the reaction it would evoke. at some point we'll have to delve into murky waters...(hope civil/evil society arent reading ths)

On A.S. Counter Intel..if i was them id first question the contents in the wallet....i think having an ID, Carrying business cards n all is an overkill. why carry an ID yet Sgt Marehemu has dog tags? And why doesn't he have a pic or something of sentimental value? After all he is human...and he can have the money in the pockets rather than carry a wallet..and the dating of the pics on the camera... what would a soldier be doing with a camera with intell gathered a week or so ago. shouldn't that info be with the superiors? Just my two cents...

GreyArea wrote:@SS Jamuhuri, valid points there...why carry personal info on a recon mission? Should be against protocol No? About condemned I dont think it would work...would he have to sign some waiver? ( he has family) Too many moving parts IMO

@Gallahad I dont know how I missed that when I posted about markings...vaccinations are a dead giveaway. Kenya does one different from all of EAC.

I think the cue cards of the story came from this incident
http://www.longwarjournal.org/threat-matrix/archives/2012/09/shabaab_displays_bodies_kenyan.php

iDs ATm cards and cellphones were indeed found
coincidentally the incident also happened 2 weeks before the onslaught of kisimayo in the darkness of the night. foreign jihadists like Abu Mansour al Amriki were also mentioned
@ Balozi...i get ur point..but what i was wondering is if soldiers on a Recce mission are allowed to carry all that...

We all wonder so at that time. I personally remember jasiri protesting so much .
When I revisit our previous minutes
https://eastafrican.forumotion.com/t48p270-kenya-defence-forces-kdf
Captured truck full of Manipads and Motorola radio calls, fighting at Jana Cabdalla followed by killing of those sp ops boys. KDF sp Ops boys are denoted by brown boots and finally the capture of Kisimayo two weeks later.

Uzi Sun Mar 16 2014, 08:27

An IED incident would tie many grey areas since the body would be badly mutilated with some documents e.g ID's, ATM conveniently "dressed" revealing only what cant be checked by their handlers within. The body can be one of their own but from another sector e.g sector 1. The camera would be damaged too but the mem card still intact.

Risasi Mon Mar 17 2014, 00:11

More briefing from our Desk officer.
as some bloggers suggested marehemus body belong to a group of Kenyans that even if went missing wouldn’t be missed.
using an ex or immediate AS body would be a gamble as we can,t dictate who will inspect the body at the other end.
a mutilated face/body would have to tally with the enemy's weaponlogy on the said date an IED ambush. Our encounter involved sporadic gun fire and a hefty retreat.

obienga Mon Mar 17 2014, 00:34

GreyArea wrote:Thanks guys, It seems alot happens that is never told or released. One would think 20 years is enough to have some stuff declassified and released,

Not to digress from the current discussion, this might be the only public pronouncement of the engagement that was to follow in those days:
President Daniel arap Moi of Kenya issued a call today to African nations to step up their political, financial and military assistance to the guerrillas who are fighting to free South-West Africa from the control of South Africa.
''Let me emphasize that Africa does not seek the wastage and bitterness of military conflict,'' he said, receiving resounding applause. ''But as the record has shown in my own and other countries, armed struggle with all its costs and sacrifices may be the only ultimate way of achieving independence.''
http://www.nytimes.com/1981/06/16/world/kenya-asks-africans-for-more-aid-to-namibia-rebels.html?smid=pl-share

Risasi Mon Mar 17 2014, 00:39

Debrief
the enemy used the SIM card as direct approach to counter check Marehemus status . Info provide by a local cellphone service provider indicates that the SIM card was briefly switched on from a different cellphone and the IME number was noted. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Mobile_Station_Equipment_Identity
we can only guess that at that time, they were copying the SIMs phone book to a different cellphone.

The Cellphones i.e its IME number was placed under watch and was latter linked to new SIM card contacting several of Marehemus Phonebook numbers.

To make the long story short, the guys from the other end managed to ID Marehemus next of kin. They went on and told them that the Marehemu had made a down payment for the purchase of a vehicle before going to Somalia. Upon learning of his sudden and untimely demise they therefore would love return back the cash and also contribute towards his funeral arrangements.

An AS cell has now been located in the city center masquerading as used car dealers.
Its also confirmed that the Cell leader and several operatives are heading to marehemus family home to return the so called cash deposit and contribute to his funeral arrangements. We send in a team of undercover agents.
Ok gentlemen switch back to Green what’s your next course of action?

mchoraji Mon Mar 17 2014, 10:22

Risasi wrote:An AS cell has now been located in the city center masquerading as used car dealers.
Its also confirmed that the Cell leader and several operative are heading to marehemus family home to return the so called cash deposit and contribute to his funeral arrangements. We send in a team of undercover agents.
Ok gentlemen switch back to Green what’s your next course of action?

At this point, the KDF that has been principally been dealing with the matter has involved the Anti-terrorism police unit (ATPU) to be the main one dealing with the local component in conjunction with the KDF.At least two teams should set out, one to continue monitoring the Nairobi terror cell while the other team heads out to Marehemu's rural home.The mobile telephone companies should come in handy so that the cell member's communication can be closely monitored/ go through who else they've been communicating with.
At the rural home, the team from Nairobi should touch base with the local police coming up with a made-up story of why they are there.revealing specifics may lead to leaks hence bungling the operation.The team should also visit the home under cover as they plan how to execute their mission without further losses to the grieving family.
When the terror cell members arrive, they should be monitored but preferably arrested before getting to the home or if they fight back, take them out (or at least some) before arresting the rest so that as much info can be got from them.The media should be kept away from this story as much as possible.The team in Nairobi should have made progress by now as well.

Gallahad Mon Mar 17 2014, 16:04

The situation now presents several possibilities and asks several questions.

1. How do you protect marehemus family?
2. How do you ensure that the primary objective of persuading Al kebaab on the direction of chai town attack is reinforced and not compromised?
3. How do you take advantage of the uncovering of the enemy cell in the city?

Marehemus family will have to be reinforced with an aunt and uncle who as tradition dictates will handle all matters pertaining to receiving guests, condolences and funeral arrangements. These relatives will be agents. As will other guests who have come to pay their respects. The house should have pictures of marehemu and family. This should take care of questions 1 and 2.

As @Mchoraji suggests a second operation now begins with the enemy cell as the target and with the objectives being to uncover as many enemy agents as possible, gather intelligence on their M.O.(this could help identify other cells and also feed false info to the enemy), discover any operations they may have planned and disrupt these.

Gallahad Mon Mar 17 2014, 16:09

Do we wnt to arrest them immediately,? The enemy cell that is. I think we should wait, they don't know that we are tracking them?

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