Kenya Defence Force

@areba
You want me to compare a simple "ugali feeding" and a "monumental construction" man-hour problem and expect them to scale proportionally irrespective of the amount of input?
Can we have another KICC up in a few days or have V2k30 materialize next week just by upping the numbers & magnitudes of the "input resources"?
We need to remember that universe will always impose speed limits.. and they will vary depending on the problem at hand.

@AzKahia .Red Tails (came out Jan 20th ) .....
Been waiting for thisone for a long time.
Sadly tho, from watching the trailers, the actors don't seem to reflect the real character of the Tuskegee Air Men!

I've been planning to retell their story in my own combat flight sim in my own way for quite afew years now (the project is still on the shelf tho....time constraints et all)

fusebox wrote:@areba
Can we have another KICC up in a few days or have V2k30 materialize next week just by upping the numbers & magnitudes of the "input resources"?

@fusebox as a matter of fact.... YES YES YES!

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/upshot/chinese-workers-build-15-story-hotel-just-six.html

areba wrote:

fusebox wrote:@areba
Can we have another KICC up in a few days or have V2k30 materialize next week just by upping the numbers & magnitudes of the "input resources"?

@fusebox as a matter of fact.... YES YES YES!

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/upshot/chinese-workers-build-15-story-hotel-just-six.html

Lol...Ok you shot down half the question. Should'av left out the KICC part.

ok @fusebox, case in point was that where there is a will, there is a way. Dont think GOSS shutting down the production was intended only for the north, look at the other side of the coin. Someone with the need for roughly 500,000 barrels of oil a day is suddenly left high and dry...... I believe both GOSS and china or whoever is the client to this oil are both desperate to make this thing work, one has the carrot and stick, the other has the means to perform miracles in the industry.....

@ Areba.... Helium is a noble gas. The noble gases are a group of chemical elements with very similar properties: under standard conditions, they are all odorless, colorless, monatomic gases, with very low chemical reactivity. The six noble gases that occur naturally are helium (He), neon (Ne), argon (Ar), krypton (Kr), xenon (Xe), and the radioactive radon (Rn).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_gas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-rigid_airship

@ Fusebox, Red Tails fell far short of expectations,a pity given that the director was African American and the screen writer was Aaron Mc Gruder (Boondocks). They fell back on the archetypical white mans's stereotype of the African American.

Dear admin... once more we are on the magical page 34.

@tom, @spartan, @jasiri, @risasi... looks like finally we are all going to experiment this kenyana army / airforce / special forces in somalia...
http://www.theeastafrican.co.ke/news/UN+unveils+new+look+Amisom+as+Kenya+joins+up/-/2558/1324660/-/gtn01k/-/index.html

now someone please explain these to me like you would to a little boy:

[quote = "The East African"] Earlier, there were concerns that Kenya would not be willing to place its troops under Ugandan command once it joined Amisom. But Mr Musila said that the command structures have been negotiated and no country will feel inferior to the other because it will be a joint command. [/quote]

[quote = "The East African"]In addition, the reimbursement of contingent-owned equipment, including enablers and multipliers, will be covered from assessed contributions under an extended logistical support package.[/quote] Re-imbursement? what does that mean? you get the value of the equipment in use or youre paid for something like lease of the same...
[quote = "The East African"]Only equipment deployed by the troop-contributing countries and considered to be owned by troop-contributing countries will be reimbursed. Equipment donated to Amisom or where the ownership still remains with the donor would not be reimbursed[/quote] how about equipment not yet fully paid for? looks like well finally be seeing the sukhoils in action
[quote = "The East African"]Mr Ki-moon however noted that failure to secure enablers (equipment) and force multipliers would have a negative impact on consolidating the gains achieved and expanding operations, requiring higher costs of operations in the long run.[/quote] Kudos to OK et al.....

@Spartan – it is about 2050Km from the nearest GoSS Oil Pumping Station to Lamu and about 1500Km to Djibouti. But the Topography through Ethiopia is murderous for Oil-pipeline building, not to mention very numerous comparative advantages of going to lamu - Line-management , line-security, spin-off from parallel railway and road connections, larger capacity Port, proximity to a much greater economy. Lamu has no competition – hell, even Kismayo will die for Lamu eventually. I think the Djibouti ‘’pipeline’’ is a feint aimed at Sudan –‘’ we are damn serious about cutting you off our oil completely’’. Like Areba opines, both the seller and end-user (china) of this oil have incredible pressures to resume normalcy of supply, and without doubt China has the financial and technological ability to get this pipeline up and running with the period stipulated or shorter.

@Areba – the pipes you seen are for lamu Port Oil Infrastructure – from holding / storage tanks to cargo shipping, kinda. The Lamu-Juba material isn’t in sight yet.

@ Coln – very heavy post you made recently. Stuff for good thought. But Areba has given you some very healthy pointers too which I reckon may illuminate substantially some of the concerns you raise. Then we can debate

KDF should tell the European union to fuck off ...for twenty years they did nothing to stop Somalia failed state from becoming a danger to everyone....now just when kdf has done by sending alshabab into complete disarray...they come up with preconditions...kumbavu hawa kabisa

They have started running to mogadishu almost every day since kdf went into somalia.THEY FIRST SAID WE SHALL FAIL..and now they give conditions when we are winning...



http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/InsidePage.php?id=2000051986&cid=4&ttl=Europe%20ready%20to%20fund%20Kenya%20war%20effort%20but%20only%20if%20it%20joins%20Amisom

ole Nkarei wrote:@Spartan – it is about 2050Km from the nearest GoSS Oil Pumping Station to Lamu and about 1500Km to Djibouti. But the Topography through Ethiopia is murderous for Oil-pipeline building, not to mention very numerous comparative advantages of going to lamu - Line-management , line-security, spin-off from parallel railway and road connections, larger capacity Port, proximity to a much greater economy. Lamu has no competition – hell, even Kismayo will die for Lamu eventually. I think the Djibouti ‘’pipeline’’ is a feint aimed at Sudan –‘’ we are damn serious about cutting you off our oil completely’’. Like Areba opines, both the seller and end-user (china) of this oil have incredible pressures to resume normalcy of supply, and without doubt China has the financial and technological ability to get this pipeline up and running with the period stipulated or shorter.

@Areba – the pipes you seen are for lamu Port Oil Infrastructure – from holding / storage tanks to cargo shipping, kinda. The Lamu-Juba material isn’t in sight yet.

@ Coln – very heavy post you made recently. Stuff for good thought. But Areba has given you some very healthy pointers too which I reckon may illuminate substantially some of the concerns you raise. Then we can debate

@ole
you are right about the GOSS/djibouti route being very hard to construct..even though shorter distance due to topography of mountains and deep valleys
a study indicates that it would cost more in time and money because they would need at least 40 to 50 percent more pumping stations on that route to keep the precious fluids flowing one way.
The infrastructure to put pumping stations and security is very expensive.
kenya route s more natural..passing semi desert lands with l more flat terrain flowing downhill like river tana..all the way to the Kenyan coast

areba wrote:

cylon wrote:Areba but all things come at small steps its like saying a baby doesnt need to crawl first but to begin walking if so then the world would be different. With vision 2030 we have to start small the roads upgrading is okay and all but if we started with housing standards for everybody it would go far to improve kenya then the roads and the other projects can start. Here is another exmaple operation OLN when it started people wanted KDF to march to kismayo and claim it in weeks after the operation started if they had done that the whole operation would have been a sloppy mess but they tookk the smart and slow approach and are now in the process of finishing of the ALshabab. So with vision 2030 we must start with the needs of the people which is housing. the roads being built is great and all but if we want the vision to be done right we must be meticulous with everything so that the whole world will learn

You really need to read through the site i showed you before making responses as such, otherwise you sound like those NGO types hell bent on declaring Kenya is all about malnourished, gun trotting and corrupt people, facts on the ground notwithstanding. If spoon feed i must, then here goes:

housing:
http://www.vision2030.go.ke/index.php/projects/details/Social/192
http://www.vision2030.go.ke/index.php/projects/details/Social/203
http://www.vision2030.go.ke/index.php/projects/details/Social/12
http://www.vision2030.go.ke/index.php/projects/details/Social/152
http://www.vision2030.go.ke/index.php/projects/details/Social/11

Under the social pillar, there are a number of flagship projects that we identified as critical for impact at a larger scale. For instance, introducing the women and youth funds to provide affordable loans (NOT HANDOUTS) to keep them productive, Have you checked the uptake of this on a constituency by constituency basis?
The summary is here for the social pillar:
http://www.vision2030.go.ke/index.php/projects/social (click on the drop down on the left to view a longer list).

Economic pillar
http://www.vision2030.go.ke/index.php/projects/economic

Political pillar
http://www.vision2030.go.ke/index.php/projects/political

and enablers, which are the large scale infrastructure projects with long term planning and costing.
http://www.vision2030.go.ke/index.php/projects/macro_enablers

I have read all of those developments months ago now most of them are hitting road blocks prime example is the JKIA upgrade that was suppose to be finished last year but still the the terminal four isnt even complete yet. I love my country but everything must be done in baby steps. Areba you gotta be more open-minded imma give you another example look at china it was a very poor country but i learned from the japanese and americans and now its on its way to topple america from the top spot as the world best economy so kenya must take everything in baby steps and not huge strides.

@ Coln – very heavy post you made recently. Stuff for good thought. But Areba has given you some very healthy pointers too which I reckon may illuminate substantially some of the concerns you raise. Then we can debate
[/quote]


Sorry guys i might been a little overwheling i have been so busy so i had to let it all out next time im gonna be more precise on my thoughts. @ ole nakeri i need to illuminate my thoughts or does areba.

areba wrote:

[quote = "The East African"]In addition, the reimbursement of contingent-owned equipment, including enablers and multipliers, will be covered from assessed contributions under an extended logistical support package.

Re-imbursement? what does that mean? you get the value of the equipment in use or youre paid for something like lease of the same...

... In clear language, It means that they will own any equipment you allow them to reimburse you for its purchase, not usage! We don’t want reimbursement, by gawd. We want them to pick up the tab for the OLN!!.

[quote = "The East African"]Only equipment deployed by the troop-contributing countries and considered to be owned by troop-contributing countries will be reimbursed. Equipment donated to Amisom or where the ownership still remains with the donor would not be reimbursed[/quote] how about equipment not yet fully paid for? looks like well finally be seeing the sukhoils in action

– UNSC will cover cost of deploying of the Sukhois. Not for their procurement, unless M7 should want them to be taken away from him and donated to TFG at the end of AMISOM!!

[quote = "The East African"]Mr Ki-moon however noted that failure to secure enablers (equipment) and force multipliers would have a negative impact on consolidating the gains achieved and expanding operations, requiring higher costs of operations in the long run.[/quote] Kudos to OK et al..... [/quote]

..... We will push to complete the preferential transfer of Equipment from Sammy, under one format or the other, owned by Kenya, and under Kenya’s prerogative of use. That is what Sammy wants anyway!!

The details of this arrangement are yet not in general circulation. But general speaking, the Americans have pushed to create Amisom in 2 Divisions(KDF will field a Full-strength Brigade in JTF format of All-Services launching from the Homeland), under a Corps Command Structure. Essentially then, two Deputy Corps Commanders distinctly form two Divisional Commands, very much like Lt.Gen Bradley (American) and Field Marshal Montgomery (British) during WWII – whileas both functionally reported to Eisenhower ( Supreme Allied Commander), they were individually directly answerable to their individual National Military Commands – who then used their Individual Political Oversights to ’’ run’’ Eisenhower. This is the cryptic inference of Minister Musila.

The Corps Commander (Ugandan Lt.Gen) is to have three Officers directly reporting to him, 1.Operations (Maj. Gen -KDF), 2. Support (Maj. Gen Burundi), 3. Chief of Staff (Brig.Gen -UGABAG), to interface within their descriptive forms with each of the two Divisions of Amisom, essentially in (a) Galmudug, Upper Gedo and Mogadishu/ Benadir ( Uganda, Burundi, Djibouti), and (b) Lower Gedo, all Juba ( KDF). Operations coordinating in both Divisions the Infantry, Armor, Medical, Tactical / Feld Artillery, Air-Cavalry(Offensive & Transport), Engineers (Tactical & Ordinance), Air-force (Combat & Transport). Support will do the same for both Divisions in both (main) sectors on Combat Support and Combat Service Support. Corps Commander’s Chief of staff is the heart of Corps overseeing Corps C-1 Personnel, C-2 Intelligence, C-3 Operations / Plans, and C-4 Logistics / Support through direct interface with the Divisional Chiefs of Staff in both (main) Sectors and their respective Divisional Commanders.

This Corps Structure is replicated on both (main) Sector Divisional Commands with a Maj.Gen at Division Command, though KDF fields a Brigade as opposed to the enhanced Division by UGABAG + Burundi and Djibouti, due to heavy deployment the all three Service of KDF within the Sector – and also leaves room for unilateral enhancement of deployment in numbers and material. And like Bradley and Montgomery in WWII, there will be some coordinated planning and execution, but with clear latitude for (national) independence of Action. The mandate is subtly changed from Peacekeeping to Aggressive Peace Enforcement.

TFG will have mandate of pacification and order ofAMISOM- sanitized areas, in conjunction with her associated other irregulars. A National Somalia Dialogue is central to the success of this entire enterprise.

ole Nkarei wrote:..... We will push to complete the preferential transfer of Equipment from Sammy, under one format or the other, owned by Kenya, and under Kenya’s prerogative of use. That is what Sammy wants anyway!!

If KDF is to get any equipment from Sammy to be used and retained by KDF, it has to get it before it is rehatted, otherwise hizo vifaa tapita through AMISOM in which case Sammy would find it hard to dictate the end user. Like I said here yesterday, the best time to take care of Kenyan interests is before KDF is rehatted.

About the Sukhois, you are not about to see them in Somalia anytime soon. They were never meant for that task. They are part of a complete re-establishment of a modern airforce and the boys (and I mean that literally coz all the pilots are fresh young lads) barely have enough flying hours to be sent to their first combat sorties.

KDF has no option but to accept reimbursements for its equipment, unless of course Ke is willing to play good Samaritan.

No divergence of opinion there, Spartan, and I have stated earlier that KDF seeks the OLN Ops underwritten by UNSC, and not reimbursement of equipment procurement.

Let’s us be honest for a moment - in AMISOM as now reconstituted, which of the two main sectors players has desperate need for the so-called ''Expanders & Enablers'' ? And even were these manenos to be procured through AMISOM, which of the two main sectors players has real-time capabilities to induct them into front-line operations immediately? The UPDF? KDF? Clearly the dearth of capacity in terms of Equipment (mission expanders / enablers - damn that amorphous title!!) and the attendant user-skillsets are certainly not with KDF!! Presently, KDF has a highly skilled - to-depth, and tested, Air-Calvary with an operational 55units of MD500 Gunships, and an equal number of Z-9w inbound – a few have deployed in Theatre; Air-Calvary is now inducting into service Mi-28s in incremental numbers, eyes still open on the KA52 - notice the KDF ‘Eastern slant’’. The KDF Armoured is way beyond the Somalia Theatre!! In AMISOM going forward, KDF Air-Calvary, Air-force and SOC will be free-ranging all over BOTH main Sectors, mission-expanding and enabling, by gawd!!.

In new-AMISOM, KDF commits in JTF as being ONE Brigade of Ground Troops, and a small part of its Air and Sea components. With Homeland as a Rear Base it is possible to bring forward any other assets as would become necessary. So, Sammy transfers equipment to KDF beyond the Somalia Theatre in response to his new global Strategic Doctrine / Military Presence. It is certainly not part of AMISOM transfers.

Now we shall be eating from the same sufuria, brother Spartan. Truce, buddy?

@OLE
i think in your second paragraph you meant to say UPDF Has no capacity to immediately use the force enablers like KDF has..i agree ..since Kenya has more than available trained copter pilots and fighter pilots roaming the streets Kenya and others in many civilian services ,mechanics,technicians,armaments officers who need minimal induction to get to speed..IN OTHER WORDS Kenya can easily mobilize at short notice at least 100 to 300 copter pilots and up to 600 fixed wing pilots within next four to six months.

Anyway BTW ...we can see major chirchir tweeting that alshabab are right now holding demonstrations in kismayu celebrating the official linkage with alqaida thugs...
http://www.nation.co.ke/News/Shabaab+hold+demos+to+show+Qaeda+support+KDF/-/1056/1325700/-/6dx19nz/-/index.html

countersniper wrote:@OLE
i think in your second paragraph you meant to say UPDF Has no capacity to immediately use the force enablers like KDF has..i agree ..since Kenya has more than available trained copter pilots and fighter pilots roaming the streets Kenya and others in many civilian services ,mechanics,technicians,armaments officers who need minimal induction to get to speed.

Kenya has the advantage if AMISOM were to get new systems or planes that have been in service with KDF (like the MD500 or F-5). If it's a new system neither KDF or UPDF have handled, we are all square, bro. You are not going to get former pilots from bars and straight away into cockpits or something like that. Tafadhali wakimbiye kwanza for 3 weeks ile watowe pombe.

Ug has very many such former pilots (fighter pilots to be exact), to the point of 'donating' about 34 who recently returned from plying their trade in Libya. But it's not as if AMISOM is going to get 50 donated planes, we will be lucky if any serious force enablers and expanders come through. For now we have only ourselves, and our equipment to depend
on.

@ole Nkarei, if I now get you right, you want the bill for current OLN ops to be picked by UNSC, right? Surely Kenya can afford to pay for its own security needs. Good luck anyways.

Spartan wrote:
Kenya has the advantage if AMISOM were to get new systems or planes that have been in service with KDF (like the MD500 or F-5). If it's a new system neither KDF or UPDF have handled, we are all square, bro. You are not going to get former pilots from bars and straight away into cockpits or something like that. Tafadhali wakimbiye kwanza for 3 weeks ile watowe pombe.

I fully concur witcha, Spartan. Except that our Jet Fighter schools interweaves competence in fourth generation American birds for years. Regular routing in American for precisely this purpose for all Jet Jockeys. Conversion to other than the Tigers therefore should be near seemless, i should imagine.

@ole Nkarei, if I now get you right, you want the bill for current OLN ops to be picked by UNSC, right? Surely Kenya can afford to pay for its own security needs. Good luck anyways.

For twenty years, they just stood by and watched, occasionally sending their NGOs with food, medicine and blankets into animal-type hovels masquerading as refugee Camps barely holding nearly two millions Somalis in a ocean of immutable pain and hopelessness. A generation has been raised in these despicable conditions, and our motherland courrpted indescribably in so many facets than I care to ennumerate. And now, out of desperate necessity, Africans have forced a solution in this quagmire, and the Old Empire drools with anticipation of their usual pillaging!! Come on, Spartan! And hell, yes, if we can get them to pay, dammit, let them pay!!

areba wrote:

fusebox wrote:@areba
Can we have another KICC up in a few days or have V2k30 materialize next week just by upping the numbers & magnitudes of the "input resources"?

@fusebox as a matter of fact.... YES YES YES!

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/upshot/chinese-workers-build-15-story-hotel-just-six.html

@areba Come to think of it, that article about of 15 story building in 6 days is nothing but a fallacy.
The author seems to assume that the whole project came thru in only 6 days, (planning, construction of prefabs et all).
I'll tell you now that the building was only the tip of the spear!
It only took 6 days to assemble PRE-FABRICATED building blocks into a building. Building blocks WHICH IN TURN WOULD'AV TAKEN MUCH LONGER TO PREPARE.
Wishful & flawed thinking?????

Am I the only one having trouble reading the posts ama?

fusebox wrote:

@areba Come to think of it, that article about of 15 story building in 6 days is nothing but a fallacy.
The author seems to assume that the whole project came thru in only 6 days, (planning, construction of prefabs et all).
I'll tell you now that the building was only the tip of the spear!
It only took 6 days to assemble PRE-FABRICATED building blocks into a building. Building blocks WHICH IN TURN WOULD'AV TAKEN MUCH LONGER TO PREPARE.
Wishful & flawed thinking?????

ha ha ha ha ha. @fusebox take a breather ndugu. You should buy yourself a subscription of DSTV premium and get holed in one of those Discovery type channels for about a month, by which time youll likely see the breakneck pace at which the following projects were completed.

1: Hong Kong Airport.
2: "The world" in Dubai.
3: The 54Km tunnel in switzerland.

I refer to this to highlight one single fact: Given an insanely high amount of cash, and pressure enough to deliver within timelines, a motivated team of engineers can virtually do anything... Ask the developers of the VW beetle.

On the project, It takes about three weeks for a concrete prefab to cure. Assuming they cast all the prefabs in a week, then spent another week doing interior fittings, thats still two months for a 15 storey building. You tell me if the difference in time taken makes it any less of a record breaker.

Dr Christian Turner,'Britain's top diplomat for middle east and Africa', has been named the new high commissioner to Kenya. the sharks have smelt the blood, they are now circling for the kill. what to do?

I have read all of those developments months ago now most of them are
hitting road blocks prime example is the JKIA upgrade that was suppose
to be finished last year but still the the terminal four isnt even
complete yet. I love my country but everything must be done in baby
steps. Areba you gotta be more open-minded imma give you another example
look at china it was a very poor country but i learned from the
japanese and americans and now its on its way to topple america from the
top spot as the world best economy so kenya must take everything in
baby steps and not huge strides.

@ cyclon; I understand what you are saying but I beg to differ with your argument that Kenya should take baby steps.
No. It should take giant, well thought out steps. If we fail to meet the giant steps but are somewhere that is better. What is there to lose by trying?

In life I have learnt of a power of VISIONING. A big vision keeps you on your toes. You think a lot and outside the box. You come up with solutions that otherwise would have never seen the light of day if you thought conservatively.

I use that approach in life and I can tell you...it works.

JKIA terminal construction may be late but it will happen. And Kenya/Africa will be better.

The guys who put together V2030 are not just anyone. They are good at their stuff. I say we go for it. If we miss the stars then we will on the moon.

I pray/hope that the next leadership will take v2030 even a notch higher. It has to have support from uko juu.

Okay guys on the vision 2030 stuff im going to elaborate later on the steps we need to take yes i agree on giant steps but we are pushig for somethung to be done right so the vision is here in 12 years or less and its possible i will elaborate on the details later.

Im gonna now start a debate on the kenyan navy part on the purchase of the jasiri naval vessel. The jasiri frigate or research ship was very costly ship. the last five or 6 years it has been sitting in a dock in spain wasting away while it should be doing its part protecting our territorial waters. But you see the better option for our navy once they recieve the jasiri would be for them to put up several orders to america's ghost fleet of destroyers, frigates and even aircraft carriers, etc because most of the ships are like 10 to 20 years old just wasting away in dockyards not in use so if our government can take advantage of this because obama is president we can purchase these ships at a throw away price would increase the naval power of east africa to make sure that kenyan ships patrol the gulf of aden not american and french ships. I dont know if any of you know the admiral of the kenyan navy but if you do pass the message along.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_reserve_fleets

This is a link to all united states locations of its ghost fleets they even got unused subs.

@areba
I once had the task of designing firmware for a small simple device (cant spill details coz of an MNDA).
After submitting the gantt chart, i was told by the client, (a lady who knew nothing about sw dev) that if i failed to meet the deadlines therein, she would bring in moar developers to speed up development.

Again..once upon a time, in the seventies, a small African nation's peoples were going broke. When their supreme leader heard of this, he harnessed his super voodoo economics knowledge and ordered their CB to PRINT MORE BLING!

You, him & her, are all under the same flawed assumption that the "final solution" is to "brute force scale" all input magnitudes and voila!
Even the Chinese with their 15 story building did not fall for this nonsense.....their seemingly speedy construction success was based on a different tactic -> PRE-FABRICATION!

"On the project, It takes about three weeks for a concrete prefab to cure. Assuming they cast all the prefabs in a week, then spent another week doing interior fittings, thats still two months for a 15 storey building. You tell me if the difference in time taken makes it any less of a record breaker."
Now you have seen the light..... 2 months for 15 story building is more like it!

".....get holed in one of those Discovery type channels for about a month, by which time youll likely see the breakneck pace at which the following projects were completed."
Discovery type channels....hehehehe did you mean documentary channels?
Anyway, you forgot to tell give us timelines but ill supplement that info for you.
1: Hong Kong Airport - 1991 -> 1998 (there is a very very old natgeo documentary on this. its circling around on the interwebz)
2: "The world" archipelago Dubai. circa 2003 -> 2008 (repeatedly shown on natgeo MegaStructures countless times to boredom)
3: Gotthard Base Tunnel. 1996 -> 2016
(which by the way is 57km not 54 km and also repeatedly shown by natgeo on Big Bigger Biggest to boredom)
All the above have reasonable construction timelines. Don't you think?


@cyclon
"so if our government can take advantage of this because obama is president we can purchase these ships at a throw away price would increase the naval power of east africa......."
I doubt your 2 cents will continue to be held in high regard after the above statement

[quote="cylon"]Okay guys on the vision 2030 stuff im going to elaborate later on the steps we need to take yes i agree on giant steps but we are pushig for somethung to be done right so the vision is here in 12 years or less and its possible i will elaborate on the details later.

@ Cylon - Eeeiiish, Bana wee!! GoK has some pretty switched on chaps running policy, little bro. Believe you me, there isn't a dearth of informed philosophy in GoK Policy levels!

..... the better option for our navy once they recieve the jasiri would be for them to put up several orders to america's ghost fleet of destroyers, frigates and even aircraft carriers, ......so if our government can take advantage of this because obama is president we can purchase these ships at a throw away..........

@Cylon - slow down, man. Just take it easy, now. @Fusebox has some valued advise, I reckon. Visions are not necessarily synonymous to dreams .

Comments are welcome: http://www.nation.co.ke/News/Modest+gains+for+Kenya+offensive+in+Somalia+/-/1056/1327286/-/vlr2t8z/-/index.html

ole Nkarei wrote:
Presently, KDF has a highly skilled - to-depth, and tested, Air-Calvary with an operational 55units of MD500 Gunships, and an equal number of Z-9w inbound – a few have deployed in Theatre; Air-Calvary is now inducting into service Mi-28s in incremental numbers, eyes still open on the KA52 - notice the KDF ‘Eastern slant’’. The KDF Armoured is way beyond the Somalia Theatre!! In AMISOM going forward, KDF Air-Calvary, Air-force and SOC will be free-ranging all over BOTH main Sectors, mission-expanding and enabling, by gawd!!.

The introduction of These heavier Helicopter Gunships mean that the 'Kenyana' doctrine might be achieved easily assuming other constants remain invariable. comparing the MD500 and the newer heavier gunships the former is limited in endurance and payload therefore cannot be employed far beyond the current territorial borders. Assuming that the projected numbers for the new gunships is delivered within the timeframe and their induction successful, what will be the role of the MD500s? My 2 cents on this would be that they be inducted to National guard duties for the APs RBPU and Police special Ops (GSUs Recce Squad). They are not only light and fast but are also compact and can land in very limited spaces like on the Highways, a top high rise buildings etc which is a direct contrast to the current police fleet of Mi-8. This kind of transfer would save the exchequer a lot of forex. N-way thats just my 2 cents!

Vitruvian wrote:Comments are welcome: http://www.nation.co.ke/News/Modest+gains+for+Kenya+offensive+in+Somalia+/-/1056/1327286/-/vlr2t8z/-/index.html

This is just rubbish from the western press AFP quoting An-unknown so called horn of Africa expert who claims KDF have done little in terms f gain..unless they aim to take over the whole of Somalia.
A reputable news organization like AFP needs to do better by sending its reporters to the front line themselves instead of relying on some armchair ANALYSTS and experts who have a hidden agenda..Can this horn of Africa expert explain why alshabab have gone running to alqaida? and also why they have largely not hit back at Kenya since last December with any meaningful gains,?