REGIONAL DISCUSSIONS:

Olekoima wrote:

Analyst wrote:

jasiri wrote:
@Analyst, Sudan has no Sukhois, MiG 29's are their prime machines.

It was my understanding that Jasiri meant either the SU-27 or the SU-30, but not the Frogfoot although his post erroneously depicted that there were no Sukhois at all in the Sudan.

OleKoima...you are quite right....
Let Jasiri shed some light on the context so that we wont 'quote him out of his context'.....

[color=darkred]1. It appears that UPDF has pored over the KDF Battle Strategy in Somalia and now recently established a near similar ‘’Chieftancy of Doctrines’’ ( whose KDF acronyms I will not give yo’all – polesana!!). Now, that is transformation by any consideration, the best thing for all of us in Kenyana.

2. And to fit into the Separate Commands under a Military-Political Oversight, Maj. Gen Mungisha the Warrior has been shunted aside and a Military Bureaucrat Lt-General Andrew Guti (Corrections are welcome, Spartan) emplaced in AMISOM Mogadishu. Reasons for Maj. General Mungisha’s shunting aside being he was recently promoted are just that . But - we are getting the Structure right, which should be good for all of us.

3. Imagine if the UPDF has even a couple of Gunship hoaving at call in Crazy Town – those cowardly motor duels would cease as AS developed some faith. But not for much longer, I dare say!

4. Yo’all have noticed the con-cyclic attacks developing near the Kenya Somali Border -small ineffectual lightly equipped badly motivated AS. Purpose is to bring the War across with Chaos in NFD – nothing imaginative, just the occasional very swift hit on a soft target.
[/color

Yaabadabadiii i- Vitruvian is back on board!!!

Hmmn. Just thinking aloud. Ever since the KDF made an incursion into Somalia, nobody has dared to mess with our borders again ( read Toposa, Merrile etc ). Saitoti and Haji had issued stern warnings then that any little move would be met with an overwhelming response. I guess the warning was heeded. Ama?

ole Nkarei wrote:[color=darkred]1. It appears that UPDF has pored over the KDF Battle Strategy in Somalia and now recently established a near similar ‘’Chieftancy of Doctrines’’ ( whose KDF acronyms I will not give yo’all – polesana!!). Now, that is transformation by any consideration, the best thing for all of us in Kenyana.

2. And to fit into the Separate Commands under a Military-Political Oversight, Maj. Gen Mungisha the Warrior has been shunted aside and a Military Bureaucrat Lt-General Andrew Guti (Corrections are welcome, Spartan) emplaced in AMISOM Mogadishu. Reasons for Maj. General Mungisha’s shunting aside being he was recently promoted are just that . But - we are getting the Structure right, which should be good for all of us.

The UPDF has always had a 'Chieftaincy of Doctrines' but by other names. It was called the Political Commissariat, so-called because the NRA considered itself a revolutionary army.

Lt. Gen. Andrew Guti is no military bureaucrat. He cut his teeth fighting the LRA as commander of the 3rd Infantry Division. While there, he was known to preside over swift court martials. I don't know many senior officers above the rank of colonel who have not seen battle.

Lt. Gen. Guti (right) talking to an American officer

Analyst wrote:

OleKoima...you are quite right....
Let Jasiri shed some light on the context so that we wont 'quote him out of his context'.....

A mistake on my part analyst. with all the debate about aerial superiority, it gets into your head and the likes of frogfoots and warthogs are forgotten. I expressly meant flankers, my bad.

Has the KAF changed to a three ship formation in mission sorties?

'In a pre-dawn and overnight raid' by three Kenyan air force jets hit
several Al-shabab training bases on the outskirts of Diif area and
nearby villages in Lower Jubba region which is close to Kenya border.

http://allafrica.com/stories/201203210517.html

ole Nkarei wrote:[color=darkred]1. .


Yaabadabadiii i- Vitruvian is back on board!!!

Where is he? He is not posting.

Spartan wrote:

The UPDF has always had a 'Chieftaincy of Doctrines' but by other names. It was called the Political Commissariat, so-called because the NRA considered itself a revolutionary army.

See, that is just it, Spartan. The UPDF is throwing off the Revolutionary Mindset and getting modern and professional. The Politico Commissariat is a Communist inspiration that entrench Political Doctrine in the Midst of War Planning and Training. Coined during the Bolshevicks revolution, with a history that turns the stomach. It may serve the purpose of domesticating armed and dangerous men to their Political Oversight, but it has no place in a Modern Army.

In KDF, from the OPD&T office in DHQ, flows everything that defines KDF. That little office remains ''un-named'' still And this module is what the UPDF is developing . Leave that to the Tall Thin Man!! Great stuff.

Isn't it easier and cheaper to simply have 24/7 drone coverage and/or counter battery radar? I haven't seen the latter in new KDF TOE and I doubt the UPDF have it; but it instantly backtracks the trajectory of any rounds letting your guns and tubes know where to unload their 105s.
Don't be too sure about the 'new' OPV soon to be handed over,if the story is true. Sammy recently gave the Naijjas a 45 year old retired CG cutter! Imagine the decades of hull slamming from that heavy Atlantic wave action!

@Fabrizio, dont huff too much. Cyclon made a point about South Africa which I, as a layman, can deduce that it is in a Downhill State. Where does it fit in the grand scale of Politics/military in Southern Africa or Africa in general ? Angola/Zimbabwe have more Political clout in the region anyway, not because they are more necessarily finaced, but because South Africa didnt know what direction to go to. quick que to the military jamaas, the military pact we have with Ethiopia, is it to do with Somalia or any country ie Eritrea ?

MWAURA wrote:
Don't be too sure about the 'new' OPV soon to be handed over,if the story is true. Sammy recently gave the Naijjas a 45 year old retired CG cutter! Imagine the decades of hull slamming from that heavy Atlantic wave action!

They dont want sammys ships even tho i have suggested them i can bet the brass is looking at ships from Germany, Netherlands, Norwegians( who are excellent ship builders), the russians etc. These countries are resourceful and they wont sell us broken down ships or try to scam us and they have a vast number of ships that would improve KDF's navy to patrol the entire horn of africa.

Does Our minister foreign affairs Moses wentagula have bad luck or what he almost died twice in Somalia, he was diplomatically embarrassed by albashir when he went to calm tensions there now it looks like he has been stranded in Mali after a failed mutiny on the city capital.

http://www.capitalfm.co.ke/news/2012/03/wetangula-stranded-in-malian-mutiny/

cylon wrote:

MWAURA wrote:
Don't be too sure about the 'new' OPV soon to be handed over,if the story is true. Sammy recently gave the Naijjas a 45 year old retired CG cutter! Imagine the decades of hull slamming from that heavy Atlantic wave action!

They dont want sammys ships even tho i have suggested them i can bet the brass is looking at ships from Germany, Netherlands, Norwegians( who are excellent ship builders), the russians etc. These countries are resourceful and they wont sell us broken down ships or try to scam us and they have a vast number of ships that would improve KDF's navy to patrol the entire horn of africa.

we would never get any vessels that youve mentioned from them countries; too much political lecture. if we are getting any vessels its coming from uncle Sam or the usual suppliers.

mbs wrote:

cylon wrote:

MWAURA wrote:
Don't be too sure about the 'new' OPV soon to be handed over,if the story is true. Sammy recently gave the Naijjas a 45 year old retired CG cutter! Imagine the decades of hull slamming from that heavy Atlantic wave action!

They dont want sammys ships even tho i have suggested them i can bet the brass is looking at ships from Germany, Netherlands, Norwegians( who are excellent ship builders), the russians etc. These countries are resourceful and they wont sell us broken down ships or try to scam us and they have a vast number of ships that would improve KDF's navy to patrol the entire horn of africa.

we would never get any vessels that youve mentioned from them countries; too much political lecture. if we are getting any vessels its coming from uncle Sam or the usual suppliers.

Uncle sam and johnny will sell us their already rotting fleet of ships that are slowly dying in ghost fleets. We can get ships from the dutch and the Norwegians if we opened trading we already sell our horticulture products in the Netherlands and with the Norwegians we can buy fish from them and we can sell them our fish or any other trade product they would seek.

Also i found this interesting for sale ad on the jasiri http://commercial.apolloduck.com/feature.phtml?id=207504

Mind you, the AS leaks worse than a tea sieve, divided into more factions than the alphabet, paranoid, broke, rudderless. On top of this all, increasingly the AS presents itself as the Occupier-force, not AMISOM!! KAF and AirCav all over Somali Skies. So where are those Manpads, I say? Mention of an earlier deployment a clever dis-information - what does that make of this site, eh?

Wow. How fast, @ Admin, we are in page 34 once more.

I won't get into a shouting match over obvious things that anyone can google up. I like the ideas around Kenyana but I also know to separate fantasy from reality. South Africa is the unrivaled industrial powerhouse of the continent and deriding them wont change that fact. How does Kenyana benefit from this industrial and technological base? Or do we continue dismissing and laughing off these very stubborn facts. There has been talk of improvising military systems from the west, east - you may want to customize or improve the avionics on your Mi-28 or make clones that rival it and what have you - who has the know how and track record of doing this in Africa? That's your homework.

mbs wrote:@Fabrizio, dont huff too much. Cyclon made a point about South Africa which I, as a layman, can deduce that it is in a Downhill State. Where does it fit in the grand scale of Politics/military in Southern Africa or Africa in general ? Angola/Zimbabwe have more Political clout in the region anyway, not because they are more necessarily finaced, but because South Africa didnt know what direction to go to. quick que to the military jamaas, the military pact we have with Ethiopia, is it to do with Somalia or any country ie Eritrea ?

Are these tank and personnel killers using Ivan missiles eg shturm or the Sammy equipment in our stores like the hellfire? Changing over to Russian stuff and having a separate ordnance stream for these 2 supergunships may be problematic.

Fabrizio wrote:I won't get into a shouting match over obvious things that anyone can google up. I like the ideas around Kenyana but I also know to separate fantasy from reality. South Africa is the unrivaled industrial powerhouse of the continent and deriding them wont change that fact. How does Kenyana benefit from this industrial and technological base? Or do we continue dismissing and laughing off these very stubborn facts. There has been talk of improvising military systems from the west, east - you may want to customize or improve the avionics on your Mi-28 or make clones that rival it and what have you - who has the know how and track record of doing this in Africa? That's your homework.

mbs wrote:@Fabrizio, dont huff too much. Cyclon made a point about South Africa which I, as a layman, can deduce that it is in a Downhill State. Where does it fit in the grand scale of Politics/military in Southern Africa or Africa in general ? Angola/Zimbabwe have more Political clout in the region anyway, not because they are more necessarily finaced, but because South Africa didnt know what direction to go to. quick que to the military jamaas, the military pact we have with Ethiopia, is it to do with Somalia or any country ie Eritrea ?

Yours are very valid points @Fabrizio, however mbs and Cyclon seem to suggest that SA for all her credentials hasn't or is not doing much as should be expected of her granted she has all these advantages. Nobody doubts the potential of SA for sure, but they seem reluctant or too cautious for anything to the extent that emergent powers (read Angola/Zimbabwe ) seem to be stealing the shine from her. My two cents.

Olekoima wrote:Yours are very valid points @Fabrizio, however mbs and Cyclon seem to suggest that SA for all her credentials hasn't or is not doing much as should be expected of her granted she has all these advantages. Nobody doubts the potential of SA for sure, but they seem reluctant or too cautious for anything to the extent that emergent powers (read Angola/Zimbabwe ) seem to be stealing the shine from her. My two cents.

Putting your eggs in the SA basket is a high risk biz with little reward. In the apartheid years every African country that I know of sacrificed sweat, blood and treasure to help our brothers down south. It's been more than 17 years since they put their house in order, but what do we have to show for it? They've never really felt they are in Africa. Whenever there is a vote in the UN, SA votes with the West

Surely a country like SA should be able to donate a few planes or APCs if they don't want their boots in Somalia. And then they want to fill key AU positions like the chairperson of the AU Commission. They've failed to lead now when they had the chance, wonder what their long term geopolitical strategy is given that Nigeria is poised to overtake SA as the biggest economy.

MWAURA wrote:Are these tank and personnel killers using Ivan missiles eg shturm or the Sammy equipment in our stores like the hellfire? Changing over to Russian stuff and having a separate ordnance stream for these 2 supergunships may be problematic.

It is a "packaged deal'. Not that much problematic since it is possible to segregate appropriately. Benefits outweigh the ..... and puts a thumb up Sammy's nose too!

Olekoima wrote:

The two monsters, the Mil M-28 and the Kamov-50 are all aircrafts of comparable role (Along with Apache AH-64).

Comparable role is quite a generalised terminology. In effect both of these have entirely different tactical definitions, nevertheless for our situation either or both would serve us wonderfully into the next 10 years or so. GoK ordered 32 Units Mi.28, 16 Units delivered before year-end; the Ka-50 is on trial-offer We don't need both - but what a magical pair of killers!! Mi.28 sells at USD14Million, Kamov at USD16Million. The Mi-28 beats the Ka-50 hands down in on-board Intelligence and logic-interface with crew - primarily because flying and fighting on the Ka-50 is done simultaneously by the pilot. Air Cav chaps say the Mi.28 is a Ferrari, the Ka-50 bare knuckled street-fighter Subaru. Has markedly better surviveability than the Mi-28. Now, because the Russian are replacing their single seater Ka-50 with the two-seat in-tandem Ka-52, it may be easier to get 'packaged' Kamov than the Mi28.
Wachaa!!

Spartan wrote:

Olekoima wrote:Yours are very valid points @Fabrizio, however mbs and Cyclon seem to suggest that SA for all her credentials hasn't or is not doing much as should be expected of her granted she has all these advantages. Nobody doubts the potential of SA for sure, but they seem reluctant or too cautious for anything to the extent that emergent powers (read Angola/Zimbabwe ) seem to be stealing the shine from her. My two cents.

Putting your eggs in the SA basket is a high risk biz with little reward. In the apartheid years every African country that I know of sacrificed sweat, blood and treasure to help our brothers down south. It's been more than 17 years since they put their house in order, but what do we have to show for it? They've never really felt they are in Africa. Whenever there is a vote in the UN, SA votes with the West

Surely a country like SA should be able to donate a few planes or APCs if they don't want their boots in Somalia. And then they want to fill key AU positions like the chairperson of the AU Commission. They've failed to lead now when they had the chance, wonder what their long term geopolitical strategy is given that Nigeria is poised to overtake SA as the biggest economy.

Precisely our point here @ Spartan, SA is not providing the leadership it should given her massive resources and potential clout in the continent. As you put it, she is in a much better position to donate material to a worthy cause like the Somalia issue if not boots on the ground. This is not asking for too much. Surely if tiny and poor Burundi can sacrifice, then why not SA or is Somalia too distant to affect anything in SA?

cylon wrote:Does Our minister foreign affairs Moses wentagula have bad luck or what he almost died twice in Somalia, he was diplomatically embarrassed by albashir when he went to calm tensions there now it looks like he has been stranded in Mali after a failed mutiny on the city capital.

http://www.capitalfm.co.ke/news/2012/03/wetangula-stranded-in-malian-mutiny/

IT

It is now a coup.
Main gripe is the boys want better "toys" to dance with in the north against the rebels.
ON and his buddies are lucky chaps, hee.

Interloper wrote:


IT

It is now a coup.
Main gripe is the boys want better "toys" to dance with in the north against the rebels.
ON and his buddies are lucky chaps, hee.

Dang right Interloper!! I tell you, each morning I remind myself how fortunate I am to be Kenyan and serving. I thought coup d'etat went outta fashion in Africa last decade, man? Eeiish!

Technology is two edged. This report shows that a Raptor killed the pilot by 'cutting' his oxygen supply!
I thought oxygen systems for such advanced birds have 4 or 5 back ups? Enemy states can figure a way of getting
a bug that corrupts such vital systems if they know such weaknesses exist. Just like the drone that was downed in Iran.
http://www.businessinsider.com/what-happened-in-the-f-22-raptor-crash-2012-3#

Apparently a Ka-50 also crashed due to 'co-axial rotor blades hitting each other during hard manoeuvring'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamov_Ka-50

After months of biased reporting by the western press on KDF's achievements in Somalia, this press TV report seems to indicate a change of tact. Call it double speak. Africans are increasingly becoming more assertive in finding solutions to african problems without necessarily looking to the international community for support. This is the way to go. Afterall they call us the dark continent.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/232692.html

Olekoima wrote:After months of biased reporting by the western press on KDF's achievements in Somalia, this press TV report seems to indicate a change of tact. Call it double speak. Africans are increasingly becoming more assertive in finding solutions to african problems without necessarily looking to the international community for support. This is the way to go. Afterall they call us the dark continent.

[url=http://www.presstv.ir/detail/232692.html

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/232692.html[/quote[/url]]

What is more, Al Shabaab are for the first time acnowledging that they have lost fighters in this aerial bombardment. In the past they claimed that only civilians were being hit.

[quote="Olekoima"]

Olekoima wrote:After months of biased reporting by the western press on KDF's achievements in Somalia, this press TV report seems to indicate a change of tact. Call it double speak. Africans are increasingly becoming more assertive in finding solutions to african problems without necessarily looking to the international community for support. This is the way to go. Afterall they call us the dark continent.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/232692.html[/quote]

What is more, Al Shabaab are for the first time acnowledging that they have lost fighters in this aerial bombardment. In the past they claimed that only civilians were being hit.

.... 'In a pre-dawn and overnight raid' by three Kenyan air force jets ... talk about capability, great stuff!

MWAURA wrote:Are these tank and personnel killers using Ivan missiles eg shturm or the Sammy equipment in our stores like the hellfire? Changing over to Russian stuff and having a separate ordnance stream for these 2 supergunships may be problematic.

Hey, out of curiosity. Do we have hellfire missiles too? Don't answer me if this is sensitive.

Olekoima wrote: Do we have hellfire missiles too?

Hellfire? Hell, no! That is Sammy's price jewel.