Re: Kenya Defence Force

Guest Thu Feb 23 2012, 15:16

Vitruvian wrote:In that blinkered patriotism and a lack of introspection can be as lethal as any militia? Everything is conditional, man!

Break this a little down for me, Vitruvian! What are you on about?

countersniper Thu Feb 23 2012, 15:17

cylon wrote:
jasiri wrote:hehehe PORITICS AND MIRITARY OBJECTIVES ARE DIFFERENT.

Cyclon, why hasn't an RPG brought down an MD 500 yet?

The rpg's haven't been used on a MD-500 is that they are wasted trying to blow-up our very well made APC. and the gunships arrive after alshabab is a;ready fleeing and they lay a line of death on the fleeing combatants. and i believe the upgraded md500's have early detection warnings to warn them of such things.

RPGS have not been effective against the MD500 because of the inteligence factor..whereby kdf has mostly taken these thugs by surprise and killing them..also the range of the rpg is not to good use because the MD500 engages the thugs well out rpg range but the manpad is one thing where one lucky shot i enough to bring down something..

cylon Thu Feb 23 2012, 15:22

countersniper wrote:
cylon wrote:
jasiri wrote:hehehe PORITICS AND MIRITARY OBJECTIVES ARE DIFFERENT.

Cyclon, why hasn't an RPG brought down an MD 500 yet?

The rpg's haven't been used on a MD-500 is that they are wasted trying to blow-up our very well made APC. and the gunships arrive after alshabab is a;ready fleeing and they lay a line of death on the fleeing combatants. and i believe the upgraded md500's have early detection warnings to warn them of such things.

RPGS have not been effective against the MD500 because of the inteligence factor..whereby kdf has mostly taken these thugs by surprise and killing them..also the range of the rpg is not to good use because the MD500 engages the thugs well out rpg range but the manpad is one thing where one lucky shot i enough to bring down something..

The manpads are a total game changer. Could they dent one of the apc?

mekatilili Thu Feb 23 2012, 15:28

Vitruvian wrote:You do us injustice.
This war is being fought by a Nation, mekatilili, not just by an Army. This Nation has given full support to that Army and the kitchen cabinet that unilaterally called the shots. It is neither an action movie nor a bloodbath that the Nation wants to see. It wants to see results. A safer Kenya and the seeds of Kenyana. At the moment, there is no indication of either. The stakes in any war are astronomical. You cannot imagine that the expectations will be any less so. So far, OLN has been a political and diplomatic miscarriage, which is not surprising considering our own political infighting and juridicial credentials. The first few weeks of OLN were a perceptible demonstration of KDF's tactical brilliance and the sheer potential of its raw power. Then some political milksop walked in and threw a spanner into the works.
Grief and concern for our brave men and women are not an exclusive preserve. The Nation has as much claim to Citizen Mwanza as the Army does to Sergeant Mwanza. We cherish them all and grieve for the fallen.
P.S. the not-entirely-subliminal cynicism has been disregarded.

mekatilili wrote:It is funny reading the reactions from some on this forum that feel like the world is ending now that an invasion of Kismayo by the gallant KDF forces has not been captured in film to ogle over for years to come. Others are invoking the C word in an attempt to downplay the role of the KDF and boost the morale of their army and their brave and glorious commander in chief for life, Museveni.

War is not waged for entertainment purposes, nor is it a pageantry. The puerility of the assertion that the KDF should have put into use all its equipment in OLN would only be sweet and laughable if put forward by a 5 year old kid. For those dying to witness a bloodbath I suggest 'Redbox' (or whichever video renting service is available in Kenya) and browse under the 'Action' genre for your fix.

These brave men and women representing our nation in Somalia are human beings and not disposable pawns. There are military planners and strategists who I am sure have a better understanding of the issue at hand and instead of yelping 'Lost Glory!' from the comfort of your apartments use the resources here to figure out what the next step is.

The heartbroken keyboard militants are now choking with disappointment. Only 48 hours ago, they were showering this website with praise but now are writing it off as a propaganda outlet for the KDF. The British are hiring, your expertise will be invaluable in their adventures in Kismayo.

Honor the brave soldiers that lost their lives and those that are still deployed in Somalia.

I am glad the kitchen cabinet calls the shots and not the 'brilliant' minds on the opposing end of the spectrum. Give credit to the men and women deployed in Somalia by acknowledging the fact that grenades are no longer exploding in our cities with the same frequency as before and our tourism industry grew by 18% last year thanks to the repulsion of the militants by the KDF. I believe you have noticed the aforementioned RESULTS but your desire for action has blinded you and I still recommend an action flick.

As lovely as the adage, 'a war is waged by a nation' sounds, I tell you without equivocation that we will never understand what it is like for the parents, spouses or siblings of a soldier in active duty. National pride and our desire to be declared a bad ass military will rile you up but you are stuck in a bubble and not in tune with reality.

There is a pecking order and soldiers work as a unit!

With all due respect.

Analyst Thu Feb 23 2012, 15:37

countersniper wrote:sky news is just reporting that about 30 surface to air missiles stollen from former gadafi armouries have been dispatched by alqaida to the alshabab forces in KISMAYU the missiles are already on the ground.
so KDF choppers and jets will be rendered useless ..
DAMM IAM GETTING SICKER AND SICKER.

On February 11th SIN reported this

In Kismayu, Al-Shabaab intelligence officers have been advising
commanders on how to use man-portable anti-tank and the ZUE 23
Anti-Aircraft system to stymie KDF storm. This is a deadly strategy,
which can inflict heavy causalities on KDF. 'Intelligence reports show
Al-Shabaab was able to obtain crucial intelligence on types of tanks,
armored vehicles, and weapons KDF will use in urban warfare. Such
intelligence will help fighters acquire required anti-tank weaponry,
anti-aircraft, and effective guerilla strategy to defeat KDF.' http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=1667

It is not a surprise that Kenya policemen and some soldiers were thick enough to take 250,000 and sell intelligence to Al-Shabaab.

The route through which such weapons can come through is Sudan and pass through that un-secured border stretch and into Somalia
. Another route is Uganda which has mercenaries coming back home from Tripoli, arrangements to discredit KDF would be a shot in the arm to Museveni who loathes KDF......JUST LOOK BACK AND SEE HOW kIBAKI IGNORED HIM DURING THE LAUNCH OF THAT GREAT LAKES UNIVERSITY thing......

Kenya is surrounded by more enemies than before.

cylon Thu Feb 23 2012, 15:50

Analyst wrote:
countersniper wrote:sky news is just reporting that about 30 surface to air missiles stollen from former gadafi armouries have been dispatched by alqaida to the alshabab forces in KISMAYU the missiles are already on the ground.
so KDF choppers and jets will be rendered useless ..
DAMM IAM GETTING SICKER AND SICKER.

On February 11th SIN reported this

In Kismayu, Al-Shabaab intelligence officers have been advising
commanders on how to use man-portable anti-tank and the ZUE 23
Anti-Aircraft system to stymie KDF storm. This is a deadly strategy,
which can inflict heavy causalities on KDF. 'Intelligence reports show
Al-Shabaab was able to obtain crucial intelligence on types of tanks,
armored vehicles, and weapons KDF will use in urban warfare. Such
intelligence will help fighters acquire required anti-tank weaponry,
anti-aircraft, and effective guerilla strategy to defeat KDF.' http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=1667

It is not a surprise that Kenya policemen and some soldiers were thick enough to take 250,000 and sell intelligence to Al-Shabaab.

The route through which such weapons can come through is Sudan and pass through that un-secured border stretch and into Somalia
. Another route is Uganda which has mercenaries coming back home from Tripoli, arrangements to discredit KDF would be a shot in the arm to Museveni who loathes KDF......JUST LOOK BACK AND SEE HOW kIBAKI IGNORED HIM DURING THE LAUNCH OF THAT GREAT LAKES UNIVERSITY thing......

Kenya is surrounded by more enemies than before.

Dude why do you keep quoting SIN its making me believe that your david goldman.

Spartan Thu Feb 23 2012, 15:56

Analyst wrote:Another route is Uganda which has mercenaries coming back home from Tripoli, arrangements to discredit KDF would be a shot in the arm to Museveni who loathes KDF......JUST LOOK BACK AND SEE HOW kIBAKI IGNORED HIM DURING THE LAUNCH OF THAT GREAT LAKES UNIVERSITY thing......

Kenya is surrounded by more enemies than before.

@ 'Analyst' Is that what is on SIN these days? Can you send a single post without referring to SIN?

People, please cut out the portions of a post you aren't responding to instead of quoting the whole post, will you. Good. Unlike diamonds, eyesight is not forever.

Guest Thu Feb 23 2012, 15:58

@Analyst.......Jeez no matter how long u stir bulls**t it will never be soup! or should someone "pinch your nose" to wake you up? drop this SIN crap already!

Guest Thu Feb 23 2012, 16:00

If we cannot look at ourselves critically, if we cannot castigate ourselves when we believe it is deserved, even though it may not, if we wear blinkers over our patriotism, then we cannot see our own faults and we cannot act to redress them.

ole Nkarei wrote:Break this a little down for me, Vitruvian! What are you on about?

Vitruvian wrote:In that blinkered patriotism and a lack of introspection can be as lethal as any militia? Everything is conditional, man!
ole Nkarei wrote:Couldn't have put it better myself, Mekatilili. It is unimaginable that the stringent critics here cannot fathom this whole ensemble from this point of view. Easy to distinguish you from your ''twin'' now, hehehe!!

Guest Thu Feb 23 2012, 16:03

No comment.
Try here.

mekatilili wrote:
I am glad the kitchen cabinet calls the shots and not the 'brilliant' minds on the opposing end of the spectrum. Give credit to the men and women deployed in Somalia by acknowledging the fact that grenades are no longer exploding in our cities with the same frequency as before and our tourism industry grew by 18% last year thanks to the repulsion of the militants by the KDF. I believe you have noticed the aforementioned RESULTS but your desire for action has blinded you and I still recommend an action flick.

As lovely as the adage, 'a war is waged by a nation' sounds, I tell you without equivocation that we will never understand what it is like for the parents, spouses or siblings of a soldier in active duty. National pride and our desire to be declared a bad ass military will rile you up but you are stuck in a bubble and not in tune with reality.

There is a pecking order and soldiers work as a unit!

With all due respect.

Guest Thu Feb 23 2012, 16:05

Analyst wrote:[

Hiyo yote ni porojo tupu! There is absolutely no justification to make such sweeping statements of complicity in treason of either the Kenya Police or elements in KDF. This is dangerous nonsense, man. Show even a mediocum of proof if you can, or spare us all these negative generalisations. We are at War, gadammit!!

Ati the Ole Man snubbed M7 in Kisumu!!? What better honor, what better sign of growing rapproachment between states, to another leader that he is granted unfettered access and un-shared limelight in another leader's home!! Can you see this ever happening at any other time than today? That M7 would have been allowed by MOI to officiate in a political ceremony in Kenya ten years ago? Wacha hayo mambo yako, bana!!

Guest Thu Feb 23 2012, 16:14

Methinks the verdict is in on this SINful thing of yours. Quoting Bwana Goldman ad nauseam only reinforces the conviction that your sole purpose here is to sell your website. Doesn't look like the fish are biting.

Analyst wrote:...SIN this, SIN that.

Analyst Thu Feb 23 2012, 16:23

In reference to Strategic SIN.....Let it be gone....though it was quoted simply it is the only resource that had such relevant information about Al-Shabaab...i wish there was another and i would have quoted it.

I APOLOGIZE !!

About Al-Shabaab infiltrating KDF and Police ranks.....a good example is 'Why has the Kenya Police refused to Arrest Phillip Moi?"...a very complicated question but a good analyst of course nows how such stuff should fizzle like soda and be gone from public domain....

The officer Ole.....i apologize....but you defently know better than me....that alot is in the padora box!!

SIN will not be my choice of reference folks....

My most sincere apology though

Guest Thu Feb 23 2012, 16:30

Analyst wrote:

Well said, brother. Tis is good for me. Lets move on, then!

By the way, not arresting Philip Moi is really not relevant pointer to complicity to treasonous manenos. Though I seem to recall that Philip has an undischarged appeal before the Appeals Court which serves as a ''STAY'' of orders granted by the lower court. That is why the OCPD Kiambu issued orders not to effect arrest until the Appeal is determined.

Guest Thu Feb 23 2012, 16:42

BOTTOM LINE IS THERE IS NO POINT IN KENYA BEING IN SOMALIA NOW OR
SENDING KDF THERE ONLY TO HAVE THEM MARKING TIME IN THE SANDS WITHOUT
THEM DECISIVELY TAKING OUT THUGS IN KISMAYO.
IT IS TURNING OUT TO BE A WORTHLESS EFFORT AS OTHERS RUSH IN TO TAKE THE SPOILS

If someone else comes in and takes Chismayo then we have failed. That was our focus. KDF should, must can take Kismayu.
Don't wait for anybody to come and chest thumb when we have done all the heavy lifting.

Guest Thu Feb 23 2012, 16:50

one of the traits of a dying superpower still trying to regain control.

Wakikusikia they will throw you out of there. Remember you are yet to work on the IEDs detector.

MWAURA Thu Feb 23 2012, 16:51

@Mwaura, the Moskit actually wasn't as potent as it seemed to be. A combo of RIM-7 sea sparrows and RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile would take them out, if the managed to burn through a screen of bullets fro Phalanx CIWS would be waiting. You also ave to remember that the Moskit was radar guided and U.S Navy/NATO Naval forces ships had Chaff dispensers to confuse the missile. In any case, the Moskit wasn't designed to find carriers in large battle groups. As a radar guided missile that would severely confuse it. The NATO navies anyway had no problem steering destroyers and frigates onto the path of oncoming missiles to save a carrier, that was their job anyway a carrier escorts. in The Moskit was also a preety straight forward sea-skimming missile with no 'jinking' capability, much to it's disadvantage. In my opinion the most potent carrier killer in Soviet Naval inventory was their Submarine force driven by very skilled and aggressive drivers.

I would be extremely hesitant to believe the USN currently has the ability to defend against supersonic Ashs. Do you have a link? Fyi,there's now a newer version flying up to mach 3.5.
Those of you saying the KDF should emulate the Ethiopians shouldn't be allowed within shouting distance of any armed forces planning department! Here is a true story about the Ethiopians in the 1988 battle of Nakfa,one of many during the 30 year war with Eritreans. A division was outflanked then surrounded. As the generals realised the increasing danger was actually a catastrophe they did the unthinkable: they knowingly napalmed and cluster bombed their own units.
After the war,the general said, "you must always destroy your equipment to avoid capture;if you can't separate the men from the equipment,such is war." Until today junked out t-59s,artillery pieces and APCs litter the landscape.Is that the ethos the KDF should adopt all for the transient glory of saying we captured Kismayu? Look at Baidoa;yes the Ethios captured it and immediately tok 15 KIA and retaliated blindly,like the militia they are.
Cyclon,please press pause for a minute. Analyst,please give the intel site a rest!

Guest Thu Feb 23 2012, 16:52

The UNSC is not serious about stability in Somalia.

Ki Moon is just a puppet.

Guest Thu Feb 23 2012, 16:53

rwigi wrote:
If someone else comes in and takes Chismayo then we have failed. That was our focus. KDF should, must can take Kismayu.
Don't wait for anybody to come and chest thumb when we have done all the heavy lifting.

Man, one can almost see you gritting in pain, Rwigi - and justifiably too!

Time for some plain-talk. Anyone else makes any determined move in the direction of Chismayo, we go thump 'um gud. Unless it is Johnny, or Sammy - mouthful and all that! Tis why UNSC was so painstakingly deliberate in delineating the Sector Commands, to avoid 'inadvertent' clashes between Contributing Nation. Remember we all have inherent national strategic reasons for our presence in Somalia.

Ole Sidai Thu Feb 23 2012, 16:58

The manpads are a total game changer. Could they dent one of the apc?[/quote]

Quick answer; it depends on the warhead and point of impact. RPG is more lethal than "manpad".In 1996 during regular border patrols btn Amuma and Liboi,a rpg was fired to one of my panhard. It grazed aside below the turrent and quickly the firer,his comrades and technical were dispersed to the creator! 50/50 is better answer but remember an apc which can sustain IED can do rpg and more.

Folks, this story about manpads rooted out of Libya is a old one. Since Libya and indeed entire mid-east caught fire,sleuths have been all over tracking these deadly weapons. Most have been recovered and taken care of by interim regime in Tripoli but no one exactly knows what number is out there. Sammy,Jehud,Jonnies and cousins have taken pro-active measures to secure borders and also to liase with private commercial airliners flying dangerous routes to fit in "deceptors". Whole process started last May. Jehuds had it for years(remember msa airport/kikambla).

A lot is circulating on this issue with worries of possible complicity from Khartoum smugglers. Also got to remember Yemen is across waters from Kismayo. What is important is tactical intervention by use of resources both on the ground and elsewhere. Nothing to get scared of here folks. Supposing that KE was invaded by well prepared and similarly equiped force(KDF-BLUE - V - KDF RED)? How could the chaps I see on the ground handle that? Folks,KDF preparations are beyond AS!!!

Guest Thu Feb 23 2012, 17:11

These wont comeby owing to the fact Kenya has been positioning
itself as a regional power both militarily and economically....and these
people feel it is not going down well with them.....so the solution is
to embarrass KDF the best way possible!!

The west remains one of the biggest enemies of African Development!!

@Analyst
I agree with you. We start going to bed with the East(China) and the West was't very happy. We go ahead and flex a muscle by routing alsha-b. We then hang around Kismayu without getting in...this was one of the aims/apart from creating a buff zone.

Now people from all over the world have come to partake of this whole place...na sisi bado tumeshilia sahani na spoon kwa line! Maze, Joh!

We either finish this off or ol' friend John will take it from our hands,....mpaka kuna ambasador!!!

Guest Thu Feb 23 2012, 17:25

Kenya right now is currently backed by China. Kenya succeeds where U.S
backed Ethiopia and Uganda have failed. The west looses yet another bout
to China. Kenya creates a peaceful Somalia that China is only to happy
to bed. China now controls Kenya, Somalia and South Sudan. Ethiopia and
Uganda meanwhile have no Choice, the join the Chinese party wagon. The
West looses the whole of the WAIST OF AFRICA. Stand
steadfast in your amy, this is not about competence it's about politics.
Too bad the Chinese foreign policy is somehow akin to Kenya's, chini ya
maji.

Sounds better. Will the Chinese see this through to the end?

They let Gadaffi be smacked even though they didn't vote for the No Fly zones. I am not sure about their commitment.

Guest Thu Feb 23 2012, 17:31

http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16175211 read it an hour ago and asked myself this.
1. Where was military intell when this was happening?
2. Where was the Navy when these goods were passing into Kismayu?

It could also be propaganda. Sky News is Johnyish.

Maybe it is just a way of discrediting KDF.

If it true then Intel people on the ground failed...from Libya to Kismayu?

countersniper Thu Feb 23 2012, 17:37

WOW..now Hilary Clinton is saying the US of A will give 64 million dollars humanitarian aid to the liberated areas of somalia and also is going to post an an ambassador to Somalia...WHERE WERE THEY SINCE BLACK HAWK DOWN?
wanagojea kdf IFANYE KAZI THEN THEY RUSH IN...

Spartan Thu Feb 23 2012, 17:56

ole Nkarei wrote:Time for some plain-talk. Anyone else makes any determined move in the direction of Chismayo, we go thump 'um gud. Unless it is Johnny, or Sammy - mouthful and all that! Tis why UNSC was so painstakingly deliberate in delineating the Sector Commands, to avoid 'inadvertent' clashes between Contributing Nation. Remember we all have inherent national strategic reasons for our presence in Somalia.

I am not sure AMISOM (it's no longer OLN or KDF now) troops would clash over sectors. It is easier to deal with Kismayo and the AS elements within it than, say Ethiopia or another AMISOM contingent, don't you think? KDF can deal with this 'minor' problem by taking Kismayo off the table.

Am I calling your bluff? You bet. Pure sabre-rattling, plain and simple.

Guest Thu Feb 23 2012, 17:56

ole Nkarei wrote:
rwigi wrote:
If someone else comes in and takes Chismayo then we have failed. That was our focus. KDF should, must can take Kismayu.
Don't wait for anybody to come and chest thumb when we have done all the heavy lifting.

Man, one can almost see you gritting in pain, Rwigi - and justifiably too!

Time for some plain-talk. Anyone else makes any determined move in the direction of Chismayo, we go thump 'um gud. Unless it is Johnny, or Sammy - mouthful and all that! Tis why UNSC was so painstakingly deliberate in delineating the Sector Commands, to avoid 'inadvertent' clashes between Contributing Nation. Remember we all have inherent national strategic reasons for our presence in Somalia.

What do the c-h-y-n-e-s-e say 'bout all this?

Beijing rarely talks...seems like their way of doing things. Are they gonna help us with this thing or they will just talk from a distance? Ati--wee achana na huyo mtu. Unasikia? From 1 km away.

That storo of Johnie funding our Navy is colonialism. It is like being employed. Boss akikuja everybody keeps quiet. I long for the day we will be able to shots on our own.

I have a DREAM!

Guest Thu Feb 23 2012, 18:12

Spartan wrote:

Am I calling your bluff? You bet. Pure sabre-rattling, plain and simple.

Hehehe! Inadvertently a crash is possible, Spartan. Happened in Kisangani a while ago, no? But seriously, KDF is not engaged in OLN to any depth - just a wee under a brigade of ground hogs, and a few elements of Air and Sea under a JTF. With the entire Homeland within a few minutes of air-flight to Mogadishu and Kismayo. A bit of sabre-rattling is permissible in the circumstances, no? Hehehe!

BTW, OLN must close before we rehat. What CLOSE means.........

Spartan Thu Feb 23 2012, 18:39

ole Nkarei wrote:Hehehe! Inadvertently a crash is possible, Spartan. Happened in Kisangani a while ago, no? But seriously, KDF is not engaged in OLN to any depth - just a wee under a brigade of ground hogs, and a few elements of Air and Sea under a JTF.

BTW, OLN must close before we rehat. What CLOSE means.........

It would be a huge victory for AS/Al Qaeda, and a step backward for Africa. We would never taken seriously again. Kisangani was different, and we both know it.

Regarding the MANPADS purportedly in Kismayo, I don't think we should take those rumours seriously. AS is not the kind of outfit to sit on that kind of potentially morale-boosting news. They would have tried said something already.

ole Nkarei wrote:With the entire Homeland within a few minutes of air-flight to Mogadishu
and Kismayo. A bit of sabre-rattling is permissible in the
circumstances, no? Hehehe!

The more reason for Kismayo to have been taken already. The only time those few flight minutes would help KDF if it faced off with a well equipped and experienced adversary would be in a full throttle retreat. You don't want to even imagine that, do you?

Guest Thu Feb 23 2012, 18:45

]quote="countersniper"]WOW..now Hilary Clinton is saying the US of A will give 64 million dollars humanitarian aid to the liberated areas of somalia and also is going to post an an ambassador to Somalia...WHERE WERE THEY SINCE BLACK HAWK DOWN?
wanagojea kdf IFANYE KAZI THEN THEY RUSH IN...[/quote]

There is a subtle divergence of policy developing between Johnny and Sammy where KDF is concerned. Johnny is planning a Coup d’etat, a zero-sums game, and has lined up all his resources – Media, Intelligence, formal and informal diplomatic, military, civic society, ‘’humanitarian’ sector. Sammy hedges his bets, not wishing to push Kenyana further into Chinese, Turkish, Indian, Brazilian arms than already. KDF essential Strategy integrates Humanitarian facets by reputable Civilian Organisations, but these are predominately Eurocentric and have not gotten ‘’orders’’ from their Political Heads to move into KDF-sanitised Somalia. So, Sammy (Clinton) offers very vital respite, and American Humanitarian Agencies will be on the ground in Juba before long. This will complement the Civilian Administration KDF is implanting in these areas, and break the back of AS with finality.'

Some fella in Action Aid, claiming to speak on behalf of what is euphemistically being called by these charlatans as ‘’Humanitarian Sector””, last night had the gall to declare on international news media that it ‘’was unpalatable to them if the Old Man demanded repatriation of Refugees in Dadaab to Somalia””!!!! WTF do these fellas think they are?? Mad

mbs Thu Feb 23 2012, 20:10

just watched the David Cameron Press conference and i think we need to move to step two as i am sure the 'enlightened' people at KDF Headquarters had thought of this happening. will sleep on it and try to guess what that would be. my 8-4-4 education taught me that the military build up betw Kenya and UG has nothing to do with the two states. there is no financial reason for that either. back again to Tanzania, why are they holding us back in everything ? everyone else seems to be reading from the same book but them. they aint in Somalia or anywhere else ?

Sponsored content