Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Guest Sun Jun 24 2012, 21:41

Spartan wrote:
I've written here before that this Jubaland and other strictly Kenyan interests have no room in AMISOM, and I pray that they are limited to the opinions of the bloggers here, and that they are the hangover of the OLN. In AMISOM all parties (Kenya, Uganda, Ethiopia, Somalia) must move in lockstep or we will have done bure kabisa!! Harbouring ill-feelings against the TFG simply because it's deemed to be closer to Ug or Ethiopia is a waste of time which would better be used to prop up your won candidate to take over the reigns of power come August 20 2012.

The TFG's closeness to Uganda and Ethiopia is a result of circumstances, nothing personal they have against Kenya. Uganda and Ethiopia went to Somalia long before Ke thought there was anything better than enjoying the windfall of the satellite Somalia economy the Al Shabaab and other warlords had created in Eastleigh. Ugandan and Ethiopian blood was spilt for the TFG to be in power up to today, and he would do the same for Kenya if KDF was crying 'Chai in Mogadishu' in 2007. Sorry, I am a soldier and I have been trained to take nothing personally, as long as the job is done.

But recognising that Somalia and Kenya are tied at the hips is a good start, bro.

You misread my post, Spartan, which is surprising not like you at all. Lets walk through together, tafadhali, soldier to another – Kenya is in AMISOM only to the extent that this ‘’legitimizes’’ OLN whose objectives are largely different from those of the AMISOM. Beyond that, KDF is specifically separate. And that is not a blogger’s opinion, bro. Despite our very close symbiotic relationship, Uganda and Kenya are competitors for scarce resources for human development. Sometimes, this competition may boil over, but by and large it is a benign and symbiotic competition that spurs both Nations to excel. Because of this synergy, Kenya and Uganda have irrevocably changed the face of Eastern Africa, and driven the doubling of the GDP of all EAC countries but for Burundi and including that of the reluctant sibling Tanzania in Ten short years, and raised the expectations of our peoples so that the rest of the world has difficulties ignoring East Africa.

1. Kenya and Uganda have essential National Interests that sometimes may find convergence, and sometimes may not. Our collectivized action is underpinned in this manner. AMISOM does not at all make our National Interests identical nor subjugate these National Interests of either Nation to the other. Because of AMISOM, KDF is not become now synonymous with the UPDF and vice versa.

2. As for the fact of the timing of this AMISOM mission, whileas the UPDF are in Zoomalia consequent to IGAD /AU Policy, OLN was not originally sanctioned outside Kenya, and its justifications were demanded and provided to the IGAD/AU after-the-fact of deployment. This same UPDF-enabling IGAD /AU Policy kept KDF out of Zoomalia prior to October 2011 – it was not as you imply some economic avarice and political reluctance of Kenya to engage Militarily in Zoomalia. And the sequential data that preceded OLN are in the public domain – so, there you are!!

3. UPDF’s AMISOM mandate originally was limited to Securing the TFG – period!! Obviously without the UPDF the TFG would have been wiped out by the AS. Sharif is indebted to the UPDF.

4. OLN as was concepted here in kDoD, the Strategic Objective are as I have stated, not subservient to the survival of the TFG and neither Nation-Engineering which is the Objective of IGAD / AU and AMISOM. And that understandably motivated the public repudiation of KDF / OLN deployment by the TFG President who is yet to reconcile himself to a possible Third semi-autonomy in Jubaland / GEDO that would cut off Bakoool, Bay, Benadir, Shabelle Galgudud from primary access to Eastern African through the Kenya NFD. He has at various times made frantic representation to M7 and Meles and lately to Kikwete for a Military Force insertion, of either of these three Nations, into the KDF Sector II and a coordinated drive to Kismayu(Sector II) with the intention of projecting his (limited acceptance and questionable legitimacy) Presidency and the TFG into Juba and Gedo independent of KDF and her allied irregulars. Thankfully, these Honourable gentlemen were not easily beguiled by Sharif, knowing clearly well that a fractious militarized theatre had potential for negative engagement with far reaching consequences in our region.

Sasa?

countersniper Sun Jun 24 2012, 23:03

Breaking news
one killed and several injured as a grenade thrown into a bar ten kilometers from Mombasa town.

http://www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/-/1064/1434986/-/9dgjny/-/index.html

countersniper Sun Jun 24 2012, 23:16

Spartan wrote:
ole Nkarei wrote:Sharif is panicking and desperate to stay relevant post AS. He announces his candidacy even before agreement on the Governance Structure is agreed; man knows the AZANIA deal is done, despite his earlier running around to Meles and M7 to get either into Kismayu before Madobe and Gaaddi. We are not moving no matter. So he flies down for a quick chat with Kikwete and spends hours trying to get the shy timid WTZ to move troops into Zoomalia, ostensibly to create him an army, but more likely to increase the tensions between TCC in Zoomalia! Guys, Zoomalia and Kenya are tied at the hips, important to our survival - we cannot fully integrate NFD into the Kenya Economy without Jubaland and GEdo. And Kenya will not survive without the NFD. Leave Chismayu to the Chisimayians? Hell no!!

I've written here before that this Jubaland and other strictly Kenyan interests have no room in AMISOM, and I pray that they are limited to the opinions of the bloggers here, and that they are the hangover of the OLN. In AMISOM all parties (Kenya, Uganda, Ethiopia, Somalia) must move in lockstep or we will have done bure kabisa!! Harbouring ill-feelings against the TFG simply because it's deemed to be closer to Ug or Ethiopia is a waste of time which would better be used to prop up your won candidate to take over the reigns of power come August 20 2012.

The TFG's closeness to Uganda and Ethiopia is a result of circumstances, nothing personal they have against Kenya. Uganda and Ethiopia went to Somalia long before Ke thought there was anything better than enjoying the windfall of the satellite Somalia economy the Al Shabaab and other warlords had created in Eastleigh. Ugandan and Ethiopian blood was spilt for the TFG to be in power up to today, and he would do the same for Kenya if KDF was crying 'Chai in Mogadishu' in 2007. Sorry, I am a soldier and I have been trained to take nothing personally, as long as the job is done.

But recognising that Somalia and Kenya are tied at the hips is a good start, bro.

spartan
this article in daily nation answers your view partly.

http://www.nation.co.ke/News/Who+will+fill+Al+Shabaab+void/-/1056/1434944/-/c3il6r/-/index.html

Risasi Mon Jun 25 2012, 08:24

@ON thanks man. I will play safe…sharif is a canny man WTZ to the theater?? hahahaha
@countersniper in hind sight all seem easy and understandable I also initially thought the force was lean for mopping the entire area, the guy proved his plan.
.
@SWAPO deal; Zoomalias are resilient fighters teaching them so much could be a shot on the foot. But all in all I wouldn,t mind a force checkmating our northern neighbor, who happens to be his sworn enemy.

@mogen as counter sniper said. The overall Commanding Office OLN forth guy from the left.

@jasiri civy ATC orders are the Holy Grail for the aviation world although military crafts have the way of right you know Cool

. What were you doing so close to the Mil bro? Ama ulikuwa na agalia?

I guess the fellows were laughing and saying wacha tuu tengenze hii mwana inchi. Where was the incident? Ngong ? cause that where they train on ridge and valley landing. a KDF base/detachment in Zom after the AMISOM exit? i think so. An immediate pull out will create a power vacuum.

@spartan we have nothing against the TFG icon or whom their affiliated to. some persona in the TFG setup were conducting half baked ops and procrastinating high value events under the expensive of KE taxes in general.(manyani training sch.). So we go in and do the job with the collation of willing militias. No hard feelings the fellow lost his relevancy, why should we carry excess baggage?

Spartan Mon Jun 25 2012, 08:38

ole Nkarei wrote:You misread my post, Spartan, which is surprising not like you at all. Lets walk through together, tafadhali, soldier to another – Kenya is in AMISOM only to the extent that this ‘’legitimizes’’ OLN whose objectives are largely different from those of the AMISOM. Beyond that, KDF is specifically separate.

I am at pains to see how I misread your post, sir. The text you put in red sums up what my apprehension is about. Thankfully, Kenya is no superpower. As long as it needs AMISOM and UNSC funds to be in Somalia it will have to toe the AMISOM line.

@Countersniper Sheikh Madobe raises valid and widespread reservations about the TFG in Somalia, but the sooner he works with them the better for him and his benefactors. He will get no where if he is perceived as representing personal or Kenyan interests. AMISOM has a mandate to bring order to Somalia, even if it has to square off against militias trained by friendly countries, sadly.

Olekoima Mon Jun 25 2012, 10:20

Spartan wrote:[
Now over to the SIPRI reports. Does anybody else see the elephant in the room with those reports? I know people will say the reports don't report everything blah blah, which is true because I know equipment and capabilities that Uganda has that are nowhere in those transfers. But the disparities are glaring between what Uganda is known to have and what Kenya has, despite the overwhelming financial allocation KDF gets. I don't want to flog this horse because you know what your capabilities are, and we know ours, even without looking at those SIPRI transfers.

There are no skies to control over East and Central Africa. Skies are only 'controlled' when they are contested, like right now KDF controls the skies of South Somalia and Kismayu area.

But you would know better than to say that because before 1978, Uganda had the largest Airforce in East and Central Africa, curtsey of Amin's delusions of grandeur. You may want to brush up on what happened to the airforce Amin built and compare with Kenya Airforce. And while you are at it, do the maths for a better perspective.

Lest I forget, the Uganda Airforce is most likely to go to war with, not against, the Kenya Airforce.

Well, i don't think SIPRI captured everything as you correctly observe above. What i posted above is already well known and even available in Wilipedia. Like i said above, the list is not exhaustive for all the countries. Much more is missing.

Guest Mon Jun 25 2012, 10:48

Spartan wrote: ......Thankfully, Kenya is no superpower. As long as it needs AMISOM and UNSC funds to be in Somalia it will have to toe the AMISOM line.

AMISOM has a mandate to bring order to Somalia, even if it has to square off against militias trained by friendly countries, sadly.

If you reharsh my much earlier post on The Expanded AMISOM, it will be clear that AMISOM Objectives and those of OLN have divergences that are recognized by this Structure – OLN is not intended by AU to toeing AMISOM line, as you put it, unless this advances OLN.

That is not the AMISOM Mandate at all. And even it was to be so liberally interpreted, there is no shortage for disorderly functions in Zoomalia - Puntland (with that ATOM fella), Galgadud (Pirates and AS) and even closer to AMISOM in Crazy Town is Hiraan where AWSJ is getting their backside kicked all over by the AS.

Movement away from the Centre in Zoomalia began before Said Barre, gained momentum during Said Barre, and reached conclusion during the past twenty years of the most brutal National Collapse that Africa has witnessed. Half Zoomalis live outside Zoomalia most of them in abject poverty of uniqueness even in Africa; Millions of Zoomalis dead, and entire generation economically and socially wiped out and another following in the same path. Mogadishu is the geograhical centre, not the geopolitical centre – fact. Re-engineering a Unitary Zoomali State, which is the AU Mission in Zoomalia, recognizes this fact of Zoomalian fragmentation into semi-autonomous zones all with strong intentions to remain semi-autonomous. You need to accept this reality that Shariff will not project himself or Central Authority over Puntland, Somaliland, Azania, by any means other than discussions on a willing basis – UPDF / AMISOM or not!

As concerns aUnitary Strategy / Objective of AMISOM – that is a public relation illusion. There are just too many divergentand credible Nationalistic Interests in this Theatre. To be blunt and honest, as far as Kenya is concerned, AMISOM works for OLN, not the other way round. As indeed it certainly works for Uganda and UPDF – forget the romantic altruism of African brotherhood! The devil is that Zoomalia Interest as equally achieved along this process. The germane sequence of events in Somalia are as follows:

1.AU –Peace/Security Commission ordered Ethiopia and Kenya to stay out of Zoomalia, and ordered Uganda, Burundi Nigeria, Senegal, into Somalia – countries without shared demographies and borders with Zoomalia.
2.OLN kicks off, with the objective to secure the 1800Km Border to a depth of 200Km, for Kenya National Development programs to continue (Rwaza 2030 – LAPSSET)
3.After initial disquiet and anxiety, AU recognizes advantage of OLN opening a forceful front South to relieve a beleaguered AMISOM Mogadishu Deployment, and seeks to adopt OLN into the AMISOM. KDF recognizes the carrot offered of legitimacy and finance, and accepts to domesticate OLN into Political-AMISOM - not to abandon OLN, mind you!.
4.Ethiopia immediately prepares an expeditionary Force and give notice of her intention to deploy to Zoomalia. AU again recognizes the advantage of a additional pressure against Alshabaab and gives Ethiopia a limited theatre and duration outside AMISOM. To make this politically correct, AU renews calls for additional Troops from other African Nations.

Lets close this Theatre and move on.

cylon Mon Jun 25 2012, 13:36

@Spartan yes i know my history and we would handle that threat just like we did back when Kenyatta was in power closed down the border for a few weeks and see how long you last. And i wasn't saying that the skies of east africa are being contested on some war dance ritual i was simply implying that you guys had some leverage over us.

ON thanks for that back door exit @FlyingCrane my apologies sir and to my fellow formers for posting fraudulent information, lesson learned i will only cite my sources from credible installations.

Ole Nakeri
Movement away from the Centre in Zoomalia began before Said Barre,
gained momentum during Said Barre, and reached conclusion during the
past twenty years of the most brutal National Collapse that Africa has
witnessed. Half Zoomalis live outside Zoomalia most of them in abject
poverty of uniqueness even in Africa; Millions of Zoomalis dead, and
entire generation economically and socially wiped out and another
following in the same path. Mogadishu is the geograhical centre, not
the geopolitical centre – fact. Re-engineering a Unitary Zoomali State,
which is the AU Mission in Zoomalia, recognizes this fact of Zoomalian
fragmentation into semi-autonomous zones all with strong intentions to
remain semi-autonomous. You need to accept this reality that Shariff
will not project himself or Central Authority over Puntland, Somaliland,
Azania, by any means other than discussions on a willing basis – UPDF /
AMISOM or not!

I have a question would reunifying Somalia under a federal state destroy the workings of Azania??? By giving each of the clans their own area of control + a governor to oversee developments etc. wouldn't this be an appealing offer that Sammy would love to peddle......I guess that is why carson made those remarks a few weeks ago...

Spartan Mon Jun 25 2012, 14:33

cylon wrote:@Spartan yes i know my history and we would handle that threat just like we did back when Kenyatta was in power closed down the border for a few weeks and see how long you last. And i wasn't saying that the skies of east africa are being contested on some war dance ritual i was simply implying that you guys had some leverage over us.

These kinds of arguments are not for this forum, we used to have them at the Nairobi chronicles so you are a little late for the party.

But something for you to ponder as you climb the 'close-the-border' horse;

1. Uganda's most critical imports, like military hardware is imported through Tanzania and not Kenya (I guess it's a result of the weaknesses Amin's actions exposed).

2. Most ammo is locally produced, just like Kenya and Tz do

3. We don't import food, actually we export food to Kenya

4. Unlike the 70s, this is not the Amin era where he could pick fights with Tz and Ke at the same time only for him to be forced into an embarrassing climbdown. Kenya would have to convince the Tanzanians to play ball too, especially not to allow oil imports through. But that will soon be taken care of by a Ugandan refinery.

5. A closure of the border would hurt the both Ugandan and Kenyan economies, but mostly the Ugandan one because Uganda is Kenya's biggest trading partner and route to other markets (DRC, Rwanda even South Sudan).

So it's not that easy bro, otherwise Kenya has had ample opportunities to want to close the border to teach small bro a lesson.

Guest Mon Jun 25 2012, 15:25

cylon wrote:
I have a question would reunifying Somalia under a federal state destroy the workings of Azania??? By giving each of the clans their own area of control + a governor to oversee developments etc. wouldn't this be an appealing offer that Sammy would love to peddle......I guess that is why carson made those remarks a few weeks ago...

Well, whatever the shape of Zoomalia, Federated, Confederated or Unitary, Sammy and a whole lot of fellas (hell, even the Turks are circling!!) will not stay out watching from the touch-line. Zoomalia is to dang rich in Resources and Investment / Expenditure Possibilities for the circling Sharks (and some bald-headedvVultures too, by gawd!!). Present thinking in Planning Circles is that Zoomalia is too fragmented and for too dang long as to be immediately put together as a Unitary State. But (as Spartan consistently has advised) the dangers of entrenching this fragmentation is real if the looming Federation is mismanaged due to National Interests of Kenya and Ethiopia. But how to strike the correct notes with all this complicated maneuvering by so many external and internal players in a state of civil war? Eiiish!!

Mzee Kenyatta closed the Busia Border to a man nobody wanted to deal with; hell, I suspect even Spartan and good part of Uganda applauded Mzee at the time. But at that time, as Spartan puts it, Amin's Options were Zero. Today not only would Kenya be more economically devastated than Uganda by such a move, but a closure of Busia Border would be a definite hostile statement to Burundi, Rwanda, DRC, CAR and parts of GoSS that depend on this Northern Corridor - Kenya's commercial loses would extend beyond Uganda. Kenya and Uganda are almost at the point where it will be difficult to define the thin line between their National Strategic Military, Social and Economic Interests, and the rest of EAC (Except timid Wtz) ain't far behind. Unless War with Uganda was inevitable, I doubt Border Closure will ever happen - I think Kenya and Uganda might just have a small War with the Border all the while remaining open to all other socio-economic activities!!! Laughing

MOOZALENDO Tue Jun 26 2012, 02:07

Well, necessity is the mother of innovation. There goes KDF's "Cook on the go". Sometimes we argue Question

about things over which we may not necessarily have longterm control. Once Somalia is stable and people can talk, it is up to them to decide how their future will be. What is urgent is actually to create an environment where such deliberations are possible in reality. The concern and interest of neighbours comes in when the anarchy spills or threatens to spill over. This, in stark terms, is the reality.

Mooz.

mogen Tue Jun 26 2012, 02:50

Yes, @Moozalendo, this is good news indeed and kudos to KDF engineers. Now they should make enough units and supply to all AMISOM camps in Soomaliya. And, while at it quickly get a patent before western thieves run away with their invention.

Kenya Defence Force researchers invent diesel powered field kitchen

Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) - Page 16 Kdf_in10

Researchers with the Kenya Defence Forces have developed a diesel powered field kitchen for deployment with soldiers fighting the Al Shaabab militants inside Somalia.Already, the first such kitchen, expected to minimize soldier exposure to sniper fire and explosives devices while fetching firewood, has already been deployed at Dobley in Somalia....

Read more at Smile

http://www.nation.co.ke/News/-/1056/1435542/-/ycr1yuz/-/index.html

Fabrizio Tue Jun 26 2012, 03:47

The field kitchen is not a KDF innovation. They have been around for a very long time. Nevertheless it is good that they are using their own locally produced version.

mogen wrote:
Yes, @Moozalendo, this is good news indeed and kudos to KDF engineers. Now they should make enough units and supply to all AMISOM camps in Soomaliya. And, while at it quickly get a patent before western thieves run away with their invention.
Kenya Defence Force researchers invent diesel powered field kitchen

Researchers with the Kenya Defence Forces have developed a diesel powered field kitchen for deployment with soldiers fighting the Al Shaabab militants inside Somalia.Already, the first such kitchen, expected to minimize soldier exposure to sniper fire and explosives devices while fetching firewood, has already been deployed at Dobley in Somalia....

Read more at http://www.nation.co.ke/News/-/1056/1435542/-/ycr1yuz/-/index.html

mogen Tue Jun 26 2012, 04:18

[quote="Fabrizio"]The field kitchen is not a KDF innovation. They have been around for a very long time. Nevertheless it is good that they are using their own locally produced version.

mogen wrote:
Yes, @Moozalendo, this is good news indeed and kudos to KDF engineers. Now they should make enough units and supply to all AMISOM camps in Soomaliya. And, while at it quickly get a patent before western thieves run away with their invention.

@Fabrizio

The KDF field Kitchen facility is an innovation, anyway. It has unique features and like those made by Carlin Manufacturing Industries (and used widely by the US military forces) the KDF innovation is unique and should be patented before anyone improves on it and declares ownership. Something, we see frequently.

Spartan Tue Jun 26 2012, 08:20

mogen wrote:The field kitchen is not a KDF innovation. They have been around for a very long time. Nevertheless it is good that they are using their own locally produced version.

It's not important if KDF has invented it or not. What is important is that they can be produced when needed. Very significant development because camp locations are sometimes determined by availability of firewood over and above other considerations.

Will UGABAG and the Burundians now line up for maragwe and ugali in KDF camps? Laughing

aggressor one Tue Jun 26 2012, 09:43

Hi to everybody. I have been out of action for sometime due to technicalities, but i am back and refreshed. Been going through the forum and i applaud my corner covered by Spartan and that Crane for keeping the heavy weight Ole, the light weight Anaylist etc in check. During my absence, i visited Mogadishu/Somalia and marveled at the progress being made by AMISOM forces, albeit with lots of limitations.

aggressor one Tue Jun 26 2012, 10:03

Spartan wrote:
cylon wrote:You're stay in the jungle is making you delusional mate that you risk you're credibility by reciting nursery rhymes , Snap out of it soldier i know you must be frustrated because you cant seem to find the elusive Kony but dont despair i have hope u will catch him soon . Even you're sarcasm is lame ... I do agree that the data that Olekomia posted is missing a few more procurements... But Let me ask you this why would SIPRI risk it credibility putting up fraudulent data on the kenyan weapons acquisition???? Even if its wrong why do you feel inferior come on mate you Ugandan chaps should be giddy because for the first time in Uganda's history you guys actually control the skies of east/central africa with those gleaming new sukhoi's(My kenyan brothers dont quote me on that) You can now hit targets deep inside their territories and come back home safely thats an achievement mate .

cylon wrote:You're stay in the jungle is making you delusional mate that you risk you're credibility by reciting nursery rhymes lol! , Snap out of it soldier i know you must be frustrated because you cant seem to find the elusive Kony but dont despair i have hope u will catch him soon Smile . Even you're sarcasm is lame Sleep... I do agree that the data that Olekomia posted is missing a few more procurements... But Let me ask you this why would SIPRI risk it credibility putting up fraudulent data on the kenyan weapons acquisition???? Even if its wrong why do you feel inferior come on mate you Ugandan chaps should be giddy because for the first time in Uganda's history you guys actually control the skies of east/central africa with those gleaming new sukhoi's(My kenyan brothers dont quote me on that) You can now hit targets deep inside their territories and come back home safely thats an achievement mate cheers.

The Crane has you exactly where he wants you, dude. In the past I would chastise him for provoking the you guys with random bursts of fire but I now discovered that he serves a good purpose - the decoy that affords me the opportunity to know what those of you whose feathers are he raffles think, his rough edges notwithstanding.

Now over to the SIPRI reports. Does anybody else see the elephant in the room with those reports? I know people will say the reports don't report everything blah blah, which is true because I know equipment and capabilities that Uganda has that are nowhere in those transfers. But the disparities are glaring between what Uganda is known to have and what Kenya has, despite the overwhelming financial allocation KDF gets. I don't want to flog this horse because you know what your capabilities are, and we know ours, even without looking at those SIPRI transfers.

There are no skies to control over East and Central Africa. Skies are only 'controlled' when they are contested, like right now KDF controls the skies of South Somalia and Kismayu area.

But you would know better than to say that because before 1978, Uganda had the largest Airforce in East and Central Africa, curtsey of Amin's delusions of grandeur. You may want to brush up on what happened to the airforce Amin built and compare with Kenya Airforce. And while you are at it, do the maths for a better perspective.

Lest I forget, the Uganda Airforce is most likely to go to war with, not against, the Kenya Airforce.

Just look at the assets in Somalia for example, there are more Gilas (many brand new) More caspirs and more Mambas than what was mentioned in this report. the t-72s too, that are now a common feature in Mogadishu are not mentioned anywhere too, just like the BRDMs and the recently acquired BTRs.

Fabrizio Tue Jun 26 2012, 14:19

Spartan wrote:
mogen wrote:The field kitchen is not a KDF innovation. They have been around for a very long time. Nevertheless it is good that they are using their own locally produced version.

It's not important if KDF has invented it or not. What is important is that they can be produced when needed. Very significant development because camp locations are sometimes determined by availability of firewood over and above other considerations.

Will UGABAG and the Burundians now line up for maragwe and ugali in KDF camps?

Batian Tue Jun 26 2012, 15:24

Spartan wrote:
cylon wrote:@Spartan yes i know my history and we would handle that threat just like we did back when Kenyatta was in power closed down the border for a few weeks and see how long you last. And i wasn't saying that the skies of east africa are being contested on some war dance ritual i was simply implying that you guys had some leverage over us.

These kinds of arguments are not for this forum, we used to have them at the Nairobi chronicles so you are a little late for the party.

But something for you to ponder as you climb the 'close-the-border' horse;

1. Uganda's most critical imports, like military hardware is imported through Tanzania and not Kenya (I guess it's a result of the weaknesses Amin's actions exposed).

2. Most ammo is locally produced, just like Kenya and Tz do

3. We don't import food, actually we export food to Kenya

4. Unlike the 70s, this is not the Amin era where he could pick fights with Tz and Ke at the same time only for him to be forced into an embarrassing climbdown. Kenya would have to convince the Tanzanians to play ball too, especially not to allow oil imports through. But that will soon be taken care of by a Ugandan refinery.

5. A closure of the border would hurt the both Ugandan and Kenyan economies, but mostly the Ugandan one because Uganda is Kenya's biggest trading partner and route to other markets (DRC, Rwanda even South Sudan).

So it's not that easy bro, otherwise Kenya has had ample opportunities to want to close the border to teach small bro a lesson.

A few noticeable misconceptions here. M7 subtleness to opt for DAR instead of MSA is ploy to run his new scheme unnoticed notwithstanding the extra cost incurred. If it is not an in thing for DAR to publicize their acquisitions, that mathematically means it's an arms race for KE & Ugabag.

KDF's AMISOM role is cleverly played out and I don't think it needs to be any different. Sammy as a superpower is pulling out soldiers physically on the ground and is now focused on drone bases project to monitor extremists. Tough balancing act to run and protect its interests and also at the same time maintain a steady economy.

In the past until now Kenya has benefited more through opening its borders, so closing the border would be a self imposed stupor and will never happen anytime soon.

mJESHI mMOJA Wed Jun 27 2012, 08:13

Efrommers wrote:
Spartan wrote:
cylon wrote:@Spartan yes i know my history and we would handle that threat just like we did back when Kenyatta was in power closed down the border for a few weeks and see how long you last. And i wasn't saying that the skies of east africa are being contested on some war dance ritual i was simply implying that you guys had some leverage over us.

These kinds of arguments are not for this forum, we used to have them at the Nairobi chronicles so you are a little late for the party.

But something for you to ponder as you climb the 'close-the-border' horse;

1. Uganda's most critical imports, like military hardware is imported through Tanzania and not Kenya (I guess it's a result of the weaknesses Amin's actions exposed).

2. Most ammo is locally produced, just like Kenya and Tz do

3. We don't import food, actually we export food to Kenya

4. Unlike the 70s, this is not the Amin era where he could pick fights with Tz and Ke at the same time only for him to be forced into an embarrassing climbdown. Kenya would have to convince the Tanzanians to play ball too, especially not to allow oil imports through. But that will soon be taken care of by a Ugandan refinery.

5. A closure of the border would hurt the both Ugandan and Kenyan economies, but mostly the Ugandan one because Uganda is Kenya's biggest trading partner and route to other markets (DRC, Rwanda even South Sudan).

So it's not that easy bro, otherwise Kenya has had ample opportunities to want to close the border to teach small bro a lesson.

A few noticeable misconceptions here. M7 subtleness to opt for DAR instead of MSA is ploy to run his new scheme unnoticed notwithstanding the extra cost incurred. If it is not an in thing for DAR to publicize their acquisitions, that mathematically means it's an arms race for KE & Ugabag.

KDF's AMISOM role is cleverly played out and I don't think it needs to be any different. Sammy as a superpower is pulling out soldiers physically on the ground and is now focused on drone bases project to monitor extremists. Tough balancing act to run and protect its interests and also at the same time maintain a steady economy.

In the past until now Kenya has benefited more through opening its borders, so closing the border would be a self imposed stupor and will never happen anytime soon.

@UG_BAT Whichever port you decide to import from just have it in mind KDF will have it documented and photoed before the assortment gets to a safer UG. Its a tip off from a 1 month in advance ship cargo and docking manifesto combined with the 48 – 54 hrs road journey the cargo will take from either port (Msa or Dar ) to reach Ug . in that span of time we would have, if we want to, numbered all the bolts and nuts associated with your new toys.
So quit it, be a good neighbor and return to the only regional modern and up to date port, Kilindini

Olekoima Wed Jun 27 2012, 08:37

[[color=black]quote="Spartan"]st critical imports, like military hardware is imported through Tanzania and not Kenya (I guess it's a result of the weaknesses Amin's actions exposed).

Why should this be so? We do not threaten your interests do we? Plus how trusted are the Tanzanians anyway. Are they not interested parties too?

cylon Wed Jun 27 2012, 08:56

@spartan nothing more from me since Ole Nakeri said it all....

Now in other news i saw them saying that Dadaab has been infiltrated by alshabab ex.combatants with them spewing propaganda to the youth.

I had a solution a longtime ago that they vet the camp then move the vetted families and individuals to smaller more structural sound camps with makeshift hospitals and distribution centers to make their stay in kenya easier, security forces would be able to manage the camps, this way alshabab combatants would be easier to find.. who agrees with my idea??

Analyst Wed Jun 27 2012, 09:30

Cyclon said...

Now in other news i saw them saying that Dadaab has been infiltrated by alshabab ex.combatants with them spewing propaganda to the youth.

I had a solution a longtime ago that they vet the camp then move the vetted families and individuals to smaller more structural sound camps with makeshift hospitals and distribution centers to make their stay in kenya easier, security forces would be able to manage the camps, this way alshabab combatants would be easier to find.. who agrees with my idea??

[/quote]

Cyclon Buddy!!!!?

Do you know how weak Kenya internal security and intelligence system is?
Even if you walked all the way to their head-offices with your solution, they will actually arrest you for one reason.....'WHO TOLD YOU TO DO OUR JOB?.....ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY WE DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO OUR JOB?"

Radical reforms including learned officers in crime and intelligence units should be compulsory. If we had 100-NSIS officers with a masters in Intelligence Studies, 1000 Criminal/Homeland security experts with a masters in criminology besides advanced training in crime prevention...Kenya is safe.

I would give 100% to the Kenya military for their capacity and well trained, disciplined, and committed officers, than the thousands of police and intelligence officers who only depend on HUMINT to do absolutely nothing!!

Spartan Wed Jun 27 2012, 10:24

Olekoima wrote:[[color=black]quote="Spartan"]st critical imports, like military hardware is imported through Tanzania and not Kenya (I guess it's a result of the weaknesses Amin's actions exposed).

Why should this be so? We do not threaten your interests do we? Plus how trusted are the Tanzanians anyway. Are they not interested parties too?

I don't think I am qualified to add anything to this. Maybe it was a result of the repeated threats to close the border, maybe.

Analyst Wed Jun 27 2012, 11:42

No official confirmations to this incident.

Can this be verified or trashed?

Al-Shabaab report.

At least 23 Kenyan soldiers were killed and up to 9 more sustained critical injuries In the course of the ambush. 7 of the soldiers were killed when their vehicle, an armoured personnel carrier, was blown up by an IED. A military truck transporting up to 20 Kenyan soldiers was then assaulted with rocket propelled grenades and machine guns, resulting in the deaths af at least 16 of those on board.

Guest Wed Jun 27 2012, 12:07

Analyst wrote:No official confirmations to this incident.

Can this be verified or trashed?

Al-Shabaab report.

@Analyst - there was contact in Bardhahe and environs. No KDF fatalities, not even injured. Some in TFG but AS routed and beaten back. AS is too degraded as a fighting force to mount operations that have capacities to cause any such damage!

This is AS 'twiter'' propaganda, man. Don't give them comfort by circulating it, I beg I beg O!!!

@Spartan is right - nothing wrong with Uganda hedging her procurement-route planning. Gives her viable options, and is not sinister at all. We all do it all the time - some of our stuff last year came in through Djibouti via-Ethiopia, to avoid the Brit-snoops dug-out in Kilindini Port!!

Analyst Wed Jun 27 2012, 12:14

[quote]

ole Nkarei wrote:
@Analyst - there was contact in Bardhahe and environs. No KDF fatalities, not even injured. Some in TFG but AS routed and beaten back. AS is too degraded as a fighting force to mount operations that have capacities to cause any such damage!

This is AS 'twiter'' propaganda, man. Don't give them comfort by circulating it, I beg I beg O!!!

Sir...

That cannot be circulated,...had my reservations as well.
Thanks for that...
Came back and brought life to this land...

cylon Wed Jun 27 2012, 13:35

@Analyst the much needed police reforms would solve those issues.

@spartan,flying crane, aggressor one etc....

i was talking with a ugandan friend of mine the other day and we were discussing about how far M7 has brought peace and economic stability in the country, but the talks veered of course when he told me a rumor that M7 plans to purchase used MIG 29s so he can bolster his Su30s fleet. I know you can't confirm such a thing but you can provide some insight.......

countersniper Wed Jun 27 2012, 22:52

This should not be happening 20 kms from Kenyan border.
what happened here? why risk a small convoy without air cover?
such small resupply missions can be done from the air

http://www.nation.co.ke/News/KDF+convoy+attacked+at+town+near+border+/-/1056/1437736/-/suhq2f/-/index.html

aggressor one Thu Jun 28 2012, 08:22

Meanwhile, tremendous advances by AMISOM in Sector 1 this week. UGABAG IX under Colonel Mugerwa captured Balad on Wednesday and are now advancing on the regional capital Jowhar, 60kms in the north of Mogadishu, meanwhile on the Afgoye-wanwayne-Baidoa stretch, the Ugandan Contingent was within 20kms of wanwayne at at least 60kms from Mogadishu on Wednesday. This is certainly a very rapid expansion of theatre in a very short time.

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