Re: Kenya Defence Force

cylon Wed Feb 22 2012, 22:41

jasiri wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/somalia/9096795/Britain-to-spend-20-million-on-new-rapid-reaction-force-for-Somalia.html another shot from the britts.

Cyclon, really i thot we were all over this ghost navy fantasy of yours.
@Tom, some General Postnikov head of the Russian Ground Forces said this in Parliament once "Russia's most advanced tank, the T-90, is in fact a modification of the
Soviet-era T-72 tank but costs 118 million rubles (over $4 million) per
unit.

"It would be easier for us to buy three Leopards with this money"

Spartan, Crane and all Ugandans who would like to bash my head against the wall for the above, don't get me wrong. I am just expounding on what TON has said, the T-90 is just a 'souped up' T-72. Does that mean that a T-72AV is equal to A T-90S?

Well its never over until the Kenyan Navy is fully capably patrolling the entire eastern seaboard of Africa. A couple old destroyers and frigates would go a long way if american ghost fleet is not good how about the russians or germanys they also got some good ships.

cylon Wed Feb 22 2012, 22:44

fusebox wrote:
cylon wrote:Okay there is been talk about f-15's and how they would serve the kenyana region. but could a f-14 or a f-18 do the same. with several of these birds could they counter the su-30s of M7.

https://youtu.be/C0CT8KkjJE0

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F14_Tomcat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_F/A-18_Hornet

F-14s Are out of production. Majority of USN stock of these is to be destroyed to prevent blackmarket sales of spares to the IRIAF. Afew are reserved for DACT training in Top Gun.
They are to be fully replaced by the Super Hornets and future 5th gen fighters.

For today's trivia, did you know that the F-18 hornet can trace its design roots back to the F-5 tiger?
Yes the Hornet's design evolved from the humble Tiger.

Now back to reality! Just like the Jasiri, do not swallow any bool about KAF eagles until you see atleast one in KDF livery (preferably fly above Nai on Mashujaa Day)

But you didnt answer my question fusebox can they take on su-30. also its a shame the f-14 are being destroyed only if we could have secured some 15years ago it would have change east africa.

cylon Wed Feb 22 2012, 23:02

githinjibn wrote:
cylon wrote:
githinjibn wrote:I came across this forum last week, loved it and have been following it since then(though on the sidelines). I have been loving the witticism of @OleNkarei, @Jasiri and company in matters military. I couldn't help but observe that the forum has mainly been centered around military hardware. Being an IT guy, a coder to be specific, I wondered how adept is KDF in cyber warfare?

Nsis handles cyber warfare pretty well but there is nobody in africa probably foreign sources would hack our data stores. but knowing the government all data is still stored in paper meaning less of a threat to reveal any info. why do you think KDF is so good at hiding military secrets still from today i have no idea what the military of kenya buys with 1billion shillings annually

That's true, GoK could still be doing papers and that's probably why KDF is so secretive(read acquisition of hardware) but that will surely change soon. Modern warfare is nor just about acquiring next-gen military hardware, it also has a lot to do with the capability of an army to infiltrate the enemy while incurring the least in causalities and spending the least(read UAVs).
I'm not gonna talk a lot about NSIS coz I know not a lot about their effectiveness but I have for long heard them criticized of ineffectiveness and inadequacies(not just from SIN). As the military strategists forge the way forward, I'd strongly advise them to constitute a formidable cyber army. You know, the kind that can do Stuxnet(en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet), drone viruses(wired.com/dangerroom/2011/10/virus-hits-drone-fleet/) etc. The type that can march China, Russian, Iranian cyber armies.

The thing is that we are no threat to anybody and dont listen to people who say NSIS is ineffective which is not tru on very high levels they are very effective they have collected data, intel etc and some they have been forced to delete because they incriminate many of our politicians. I think its been inactive in launching satellites into space mostly because they havent taken advantage of the San Marco space platform because unwilliness of our government

cylon Wed Feb 22 2012, 23:08

ole Nkarei wrote:The UNSC voted for UN logistics package for AMISOM, including funds for nine utility helicopters and three attack helicopters.. Shoot-me-dead!!!

They left out, intentionally or by quint incompetence, the Kenya Navy on aggressor-patrol from Gulf-of-Aden-to-Lamu and well out into the continental shelf - not a cent!!

But they loftily declared an embargo on Charcoal exports through Kismayo --without declaring a blockage of Kismayo!!

Eeeiish!!

They are trying to mask the the achievements of kdf. what is even more interesting french ships and american and other countries ships have patrolled these waters and never thought for a minute to kill the choke point of AS. And i would like to think AS was exporting more than just charcoal.

cylon Wed Feb 22 2012, 23:16

fusebox wrote:
cylon wrote:Okay there is been talk about f-15's and how they would serve the kenyana region. but could a f-14 or a f-18 do the same. with several of these birds could they counter the su-30s of M7.

https://youtu.be/C0CT8KkjJE0

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F14_Tomcat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_F/A-18_Hornet

F-14s Are out of production. Majority of USN stock of these is to be destroyed to prevent blackmarket sales of spares to the IRIAF. Afew are reserved for DACT training in Top Gun.
They are to be fully replaced by the Super Hornets and future 5th gen fighters.

For today's trivia, did you know that the F-18 hornet can trace its design roots back to the F-5 tiger?
Yes the Hornet's design evolved from the humble Tiger.

Now back to reality! Just like the Jasiri, do not swallow any bool about KAF eagles until you see atleast one in KDF livery (preferably fly above Nai on Mashujaa Day)

We should purchase american f-14's for a throw away price then we would do what the IRANIAN Airforce did by adding russian engines and upgrading the airframe and electronics we would have a very powerful airforce.

Ned Starks Head Thu Feb 23 2012, 00:11

Olekoima wrote:
I don't think this is true. In the cold war era, the East(Warsaw pact) was far superior in the ground while the West(read NATO) was equally far superior in the air. The sea front was somewhat evenly balanced.

Hmm interesting topic developing about the Tee-90's.
Anyone know what the A designation stands for - export variant?

At the risk of opening a can of worms - Olekoima your comments about the cold war are quite interesting.
I don't think I agree with you with regards to the sea front aspect. I think the USSR had a completely different strategy with regards to the navy preferring to put all their resources into SLBM's and conceding the surface of the ocean to the West. Those pesky aircraft carrier groups have tremendous force projection capabilities far from their homes.

Your probably correct about superiority in the air but the funny thing is I reckon this gap only opened up starting in the late 70's to the end of the cold war where the gap was now a chasm. I reckon in the 50's and 60's the east could hold its own against the west. A good example would be the Korean war where the sabers were given a torrid time by the meegs.

On land forces this is a really interesting area. I reckon again that by the late 80's the perceived superiority of the pact was only one of numbers. I think the introduction of late standard western ground vehicles could probably well hold their own against the pact.

But linking back to EA it would be interesting to do a side by side comparison of the tee-90a vs. the tee-72-X employed by Kenya (Of course using only open source material)

Finally a humble request to Cylon it would nice if we could shy away from what we should have done topics e.g. we should have bought the efff-14's (the impossibility of this ever happening is almost as much as of you getting a date with caprica 6 Razz

if you know what I'm saying C). I just don't see how it is relevant to the present discussions. But this is my opinion only.

Guest Thu Feb 23 2012, 00:18

fusebox wrote:
MWAURA wrote:Btw,somebody answer me this question. Exactly what purpose will those 5th generation su 33s serve? They're not enough in number to deter Egypt if the Nile issue ever goes hot; operating costs are too high for CAS in our 3rd world Mogadishu/S.Sudan type environment;how can they tactically interface with 50 year old armour on the ground.
What does a fighter bomber built to destroy other 100 mn$ 5th generation aircraft do here?
Comments?

Countries with a considerable lot at stake usually do not wait for shit to hit the fan in order to acquire potent weaponry.
Ante-up decisions are usually based on what intel outfits say - and most of what they say usually make sense - but none of it is for the common raia's eyes and ears!

On a slightly different note, do we still not have a snap of an eagle dressed in KAF roundel, fin flash & livery?
I saw some vids today but they weren't hi-res enough to make conclusive judgement.
Nevertheless, i still think the bright colored KAF roundel would'av stood out, unless ofcourse the KAF has adopted a low visibility one....considering the air superiority role of the bird.

False alarm! The vids failed to checkout! Very Very Disappointed! Mad

cylon Thu Feb 23 2012, 00:33

fusebox wrote:
fusebox wrote:
MWAURA wrote:Btw,somebody answer me this question. Exactly what purpose will those 5th generation su 33s serve? They're not enough in number to deter Egypt if the Nile issue ever goes hot; operating costs are too high for CAS in our 3rd world Mogadishu/S.Sudan type environment;how can they tactically interface with 50 year old armour on the ground.
What does a fighter bomber built to destroy other 100 mn$ 5th generation aircraft do here?
Comments?

Countries with a considerable lot at stake usually do not wait for shit to hit the fan in order to acquire potent weaponry.
Ante-up decisions are usually based on what intel outfits say - and most of what they say usually make sense - but none of it is for the common raia's eyes and ears!

On a slightly different note, do we still not have a snap of an eagle dressed in KAF roundel, fin flash & livery?
I saw some vids today but they weren't hi-res enough to make conclusive judgement.
Nevertheless, i still think the bright colored KAF roundel would'av stood out, unless ofcourse the KAF has adopted a low visibility one....considering the air superiority role of the bird.

False alarm! The vids failed to checkout! Very Very Disappointed!

Atleast send me a link

countersniper Thu Feb 23 2012, 01:04

ole Nkarei wrote:The UNSC voted for UN logistics package for AMISOM, including funds for nine utility helicopters and three attack helicopters.. Shoot-me-dead!!!

They left out, intentionally or by quint incompetence, the Kenya Navy on aggressor-patrol from Gulf-of-Aden-to-Lamu and well out into the continental shelf - not a cent!!

But they loftily declared an embargo on Charcoal exports through Kismayo --without declaring a blockage of Kismayo!!

Eeeiish!!

I just listened to to a CNN live interview BETWEEN A SOMALI government minster WHO did not mention at all the role and help kdf is doing in the south.
everyone is talking about Ethiopia managing to take baidoa while the kdf who have significantly degraded alshabab are now being side lined.
there is even talk of a special British unit being formed to come into Somalia via kismayu.
THIS IS VERY ANNOYING.
Kenyan politicians have failed to grasp the scope of this Somalia intervention and instead are playing Mr good guy instead of pushing the agendas higher by robustly pushing the troops to take kismayo

BOTTOM LINE IS THERE IS NO POINT IN KENYA BEING IN SOMALIA NOW OR SENDING KDF THERE ONLY TO HAVE THEM MARKING TIME IN THE SANDS WITHOUT THEM DECISIVELY TAKING OUT THUGS IN KISMAYO.
IT IS TURNING OUT TO BE A WORTHLESS EFFORT AS OTHERS RUSH IN TO TAKE THE SPOILS
this thing sucks!!!

cylon Thu Feb 23 2012, 01:32

countersniper wrote:
ole Nkarei wrote:The UNSC voted for UN logistics package for AMISOM, including funds for nine utility helicopters and three attack helicopters.. Shoot-me-dead!!!

They left out, intentionally or by quint incompetence, the Kenya Navy on aggressor-patrol from Gulf-of-Aden-to-Lamu and well out into the continental shelf - not a cent!!

But they loftily declared an embargo on Charcoal exports through Kismayo --without declaring a blockage of Kismayo!!

Eeeiish!!
I just listened to to a CNN live interview BETWEEN A SOMALI government minster WHO did not mention at all the role and help kdf is doing in the south.
everyone is talking about Ethiopia managing to take baidoa while the kdf who have significantly degraded alshabab are now being side lined.
there is even talk of a special British unit being formed to come into Somalia via kismayu.
THIS IS VERY ANNOYING.
Kenyan politicians have failed to grasp the scope of this Somalia intervention and instead are playing Mr good guy instead of pushing the agendas higher by robustly pushing the troops to take kismayo

BOTTOM LINE IS THERE IS NO POINT IN KENYA BEING IN SOMALIA NOW OR SENDING KDF THERE ONLY TO HAVE THEM MARKING TIME IN THE SANDS WITHOUT THEM DECISIVELY TAKING OUT THUGS IN KISMAYO.
IT IS TURNING OUT TO BE A WORTHLESS EFFORT AS OTHERS RUSH IN TO TAKE THE SPOILS
this thing sucks!!!

Well as long as we keep the buffer zone and let the somali clans argue aganist each other the tide will turn to our side by establishing the Azania nation kenya will still hold the power all we have to do is tip the power to the small militias all in somalia to disagree with the TFG....... The british storming kismayo will never happen unless the citizens vote on it there wartime budget is just stretched..... I just think KDF went to sleep a long time a go when they had these alshabab dogs on the run we could have captured kismayo with several beach landings we could have forced alshabab to scatter toward afrmadow and with KDF coming From both South and East Alshabab would have just smacked right aganist the ethopian forces which would have made them run north toward crazy town where KDF would have finished them for good thus KDF liberating somalia before the international community had time to react we could have brought peace to that region but our politicians slowed that process down.Again another big slap on the face. Evil or Very Mad

My plan of getting kismayo when we started.

Kobooz Thu Feb 23 2012, 08:39

Is U.S. Committing Superpower Suicide Against China? this article is on yahoo. Sorry to divert discussions but considering that this tug of control involves us i.e these two are tussling for the control and utilisation of 'our' resources would be good to get some insight from analytical bloggers here, and how will this Iran thing play out? Are we likely to see black hawks over the deserts again? It is already clear that global fuel prices are going to shoot up again - this concerns us, even where (super) power tilts affects us

cylon Thu Feb 23 2012, 08:53

Kobooz wrote:Is U.S. Committing Superpower Suicide Against China? this article is on yahoo. Sorry to divert discussions but considering that this tug of control involves us i.e these two are tussling for the control and utilisation of 'our' resources would be good to get some insight from analytical bloggers here, and how will this Iran thing play out? Are we likely to see black hawks over the deserts again? It is already clear that global fuel prices are going to shoot up again - this concerns us, even where (super) power tilts affects us

BLOWBACK that is what the usa is experiencing bad policy work is coming back to haunt them. One the iran problem is gonna cause very big ripples in the water because as long russia and china is supporting iran the usa/Israel cant do anything but you see israel doesn't care if it starts another world war. I dont see any black hawks flying in africa anytime because all African countries rejected a united states base in africa but they keep pushing and it will not happen unless the AU can say it doesn't need American help. As i can say with global fuel prices is that its a game ever since 1970's when the arabs cut the fuel united states has always played it safe by amassing a lot of the black stuff while it can lower global prices with its own Alaskan oil well it chooses not to because its just one of the traits of a dying superpower still trying to regain control.

Olekoima Thu Feb 23 2012, 09:39

ole Nkarei wrote:The UNSC voted for UN logistics package for AMISOM, including funds for nine utility helicopters and three attack helicopters.. Shoot-me-dead!!!

They left out, intentionally or by quint incompetence, the Kenya Navy on aggressor-patrol from Gulf-of-Aden-to-Lamu and well out into the continental shelf - not a cent!!

But they loftily declared an embargo on Charcoal exports through Kismayo --without declaring a blockage of Kismayo!!

Eeeiish!!

I' am disappointed, the KDF should storm Afmadhow and Kismayu pound Alshabaab to pulp, then pull back to within 100km of our border thereby effectively creating the buffer zone we have always wanted. No need to be nice to anybody anymore.

Olekoima Thu Feb 23 2012, 09:45

Olekoima wrote:
ole Nkarei wrote:The UNSC voted for UN logistics package for AMISOM, including funds for nine utility helicopters and three attack helicopters.. Shoot-me-dead!!!

They left out, intentionally or by quint incompetence, the Kenya Navy on aggressor-patrol from Gulf-of-Aden-to-Lamu and well out into the continental shelf - not a cent!!

But they loftily declared an embargo on Charcoal exports through Kismayo --without declaring a blockage of Kismayo!!

Eeeiish!!

I' am disappointed, the KDF should storm Afmadhow and Kismayu pound Alshabaab to pulp, then pull back to within 100km of our border thereby effectively creating the buffer zone we have always wanted. No need to be nice to anybody anymore.

Yes, before i forget, the Kenya Navy should continue suffocating Kismayu so as to completely cut off Alshabaabs supplies. The UNSC is not serious about stability in Somalia.

MWAURA Thu Feb 23 2012, 10:42

At the risk of opening a can of worms - Olekoima your comments about the cold war are quite interesting.
I don't think I agree with you with regards to the sea front aspect. I think the USSR had a completely different strategy with regards to the navy preferring to put all their resources into SLBM's and conceding the surface of the ocean to the West. Those pesky aircraft carrier groups have tremendous force projection capabilities far from their homes.

Actually the carrier is doomed by supersonic anti ship missiles.

"Nevertheless, defense analysts agree that the U.S. is fully a
decade behind Russia in high-speed cruise missile designs. Russia currently
deploys and exports the supersonic SS-N-22 Moskit cruise missile, NATO codenamed
"Sunburn." The SS-N-22 is considered the most lethal anti-ship missile in the
world, and flies at over 2.5 times the speed of sound only a few feet from the
surface of the water." [This speed amounts to almost 1,700 miles per hour, or 28
miles per minute].

http://www.cuttingedge.org/News/n1449.cfm
IMO,that's why the US will do nothing more than bark at the Iranians. The risk of losing all their Persian Gulf carriers,cruisers and destroyers is too great. The Iranians have at least 20 Sunburns. There's now an upgraded version. If the US were serious they'd have attacked by now,not even American Likud,bka Republicans are that dumb .

Hahaah! Spartan, funny man!! I repeat, there ain't no T=90s lurking anywhere in Kenyana!

Ordinarily,I'd believe you,but buddy ,there's too much evidence, even if only on cyberspace they're headed this way.
The KDF can't just invade Kismayu. Why turn the place into Grozny? Look what the Ivans did with their Noras,which are now in KDF artillery TOE.
Kenya Defence Force - Page 9 Groznycenterbefore3qy

Kenya Defence Force - Page 9 Groznycenterbefore3qy

And after, 152 mm HE,urban redesign!
Kenya Defence Force - Page 9 Groznycenterafter5xy

Is it really in anybodys' interest to see this in Kismayu?

Analyst Thu Feb 23 2012, 11:14

I am dismayed......when you go fighting, you dont use everything in your inventory, rather use what you have sparingly....use everything and die (as they say in the battlefield, ..play safe and die!!!')

Military experts say war is won using logistics and good use of effective weaponry.

SIN Argues KDF Glory is going to waste hence they must reassert their authority.

Kenya Army KDF Achievements in Somalia Dwarfs Major Armies Capabilities
http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=1730

Kenya Defense Forces Denied Opportunity to Become the Most Powerful Regional Army
http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=1724

KDF is a redefined army, its not just a KENYA ARMY...Perse, rather the father and mother of two weak and economically important kid-countries...SOMALIA and SOUTH SUDAN.....So assuming KDF procurement was to buy 35 Su or F-16s, would they dispatch all to the air?

Kenya has more threats today than in the recent past including Uganda, Sudan, Eritrea, and Ethiopia for a number of reasons including resources and military muscle.

Good weaponry in my opinion is a cache of intimidating stuff. The Yom-Kipur war was won by just one tank placed on a mountain boulder (tactical and logistical capability), it destroyed Egyptian tanks in hundreds. Israel had hundreds of such tanks in its inventory, but did not use all in the battlefield.

Intimidation itself is some sort of logistics....'if Kenya has 35-F-16's with latest technology and armed with bunker blowing bombs or AIR TO SURFACE missiles or whatever ....would any country allow bandits to cross over Kenya and do their nicky-nacky?...or send cops to Migingo and the rest?

You need to be a strategist to learn that war is not fought with just weapons...rather logistics. Hence wind about KDF inventory itself is enough to scare an enemy away.

About expenditure in flying the birds.....i repeat, one needs to be an expert before making rushed judgment...US has never flown all its squadrons.....so why would Kenya airforce fly all 35 at once...and to where?

One of these birds can fly to Asmara wreak havoc and come back.....KDF is redefined..its a regional superpower that requires to keep its new repute by having an inventory that collaborates its position and capability.

Guest Thu Feb 23 2012, 11:16

The challenges of Somalia are really not just Military; strategy such as is employed by the Ethiopians are very short-sighted despite their feel-good nature. The AS has effectively alienated the Population, who are desperate to trust whoever kicks the AS in the teeth. We can only win if we take the population along with us , we cannot allow the AS to blur the distinction between us and them with the Population – that is what the Ethiopians are doing, with nauseating repetitiveness.

Unable to field as a Military Force, (their field-craft in crazy town is no different from gangsterism) and with the only recourse to a tactical philosophy defined by Terrorism – of its opponent and a subjugated population, the AS has been trading space for time in a classic tactical strategy – in this case it is not to facilitate their mobilization to push back, but to trigger an implosion of the invading force – which AS proposes to encourage though sporadic terrorist attacks on the invading force and the subjugated population putting both on a collision course and leading to disenchantment of the Local population against the Invaders who they purport to have come to liberate!!. This tactic, and not AS, is what defeated the Ethiopians the first time in Somalia, and it is being repeated in every sector that the Ethiopians have taken – this very morning the Ethiopians slaughtered fifteen civilians that were in the vicinity of an targeted IED on an Ethiopian Convoy in Baidoa which they took only a few hours ago.

It is not a lack of motivation, ability, need, focus, that KDF hasn’t stormed and taken Afmadow and Kismayo, and moved to Jillib and onto K50 Airport in Mogadisho . Those suggesting there is Military lethargy and that the Political Class has dropped the ball have not the foggiest idea what they are talking about – such is mere political activism and has no place in this blog, I dare say!! Hell, there is nothing standing in the way of KDF anyway. AS isn’t a Military Force by any stretch of imagination. And it is important that those zealots on this blog put proper perspective to the challenge the world faces in Somalia. This War is ours to loss anyway.

@Mwaura - these types of gossip-blogs are essentially ''cross-referenced'' - an item is picked up in several sites automatically, almost word for word. Hence frequency of citation is not indicative of veracity. As far as I know, ''there ain't no T90s in Kenyana'', Period!! Let's wait for Brother Spartan to feed us hard-intel on these hard-tops when it will be possible to do so without compromising himself.

countersniper Thu Feb 23 2012, 12:00

ole Nkarei wrote:The challenges of Somalia are really not just Military; strategy such as is employed by the Ethiopians are very short-sighted despite their feel-good nature. The AS has effectively alienated the Population, who are desperate to trust whoever kicks the AS in the teeth. We can only win if we take the population along with us , we cannot allow the AS to blur the distinction between us and them with the Population – that is what the Ethiopians are doing, with nauseating repetitiveness.

Unable to field as a Military Force, (their field-craft in crazy town is no different from gangsterism) and with the only recourse to a tactical philosophy defined by Terrorism – of its opponent and a subjugated population, the AS has been trading space for time in a classic tactical strategy – in this case it is not to facilitate their mobilization to push back, but to trigger an implosion of the invading force – which AS proposes to encourage though sporadic terrorist attacks on the invading force and the subjugated population putting both on a collision course and leading to disenchantment of the Local population against the Invaders who they purport to have come to liberate!!. This tactic, and not AS, is what defeated the Ethiopians the first time in Somalia, and it is being repeated in every sector that the Ethiopians have taken – this very morning the Ethiopians slaughtered fifteen civilians that were in the vicinity of an targeted IED on an Ethiopian Convoy in Baidoa which they took only a few hours ago.

It is not a lack of motivation, ability, need, focus, that KDF hasn’t stormed and taken Afmadow and Kismayo, and moved to Jillib and onto K50 Airport in Mogadisho . Those suggesting there is Military lethargy and that the Political Class has dropped the ball have not the foggiest idea what they are talking about – such is mere political activism and has no place in this blog, I dare say!! Hell, there is nothing standing in the way of KDF anyway. AS isn’t a Military Force by any stretch of imagination. And it is important that those zealots on this blog put proper perspective to the challenge the world faces in Somalia. This War is ours to loss anyway.

@Mwaura - these types of gossip-blogs are essentially ''cross-referenced'' - an item is picked up in several sites automatically, almost word for word. Hence frequency of citation is not indicative of veracity. As far as I know, ''there ain't no T90s in Kenyana'', Period!! Let's wait for Brother Spartan to feed us hard-intel on these hard-tops when it will be possible to do so without compromising himself.

this report by AFP reporter
says it all
kdf is just becoming a subject of ridicule by all sun and dry...bogged down by alshabab in somalia not making any progress.YOU CAN SEE THE FRUSTRATION ON THE FACES OF KDF SOLDIERS AND EVEN BRIGADIER ONDIEKI..the commander on the ground featured in this report.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOdLK8z8WR4&feature=player_embedded

Guest Thu Feb 23 2012, 12:07

I agree. It is an opportunity lost. The art of war is not just about the projection of power but the perception of that power. The pace of KDF's advance shatters that perception and seems to lends credence to M7's "career army" epithets. Emphasis on "shatters" and "seems." Monsoon rains and the "pacification of liberated areas" as justification for such plodding have been stretched to their limit. Whatever the reality on the ground, the perception is that Kenya has bitten off more than it can chew whilst others make off with the spoils and claim the glory. And organise conferences in London. Just about the only place one hears positive news about OLN is on this forum and at the weekly KDF briefings.
Tangible results will have to be shown for the Consolidated Fund's billions and the incontrovertible slush funds. There will be much to answer for if OLN does not result in a very, very Kenya-friendly Azania with Kismayo as its capital. Because merely having the UN and US throw us some loose change for hardware purchases is not commensurate with the cost of this war and the inevitable backlash.

countersniper wrote:I just listened to to a CNN live interview BETWEEN A SOMALI government minster WHO did not mention at all the role and help kdf is doing in the south.
everyone is talking about Ethiopia managing to take baidoa while the kdf who have significantly degraded alshabab are now being side lined.
there is even talk of a special British unit being formed to come into Somalia via kismayu.
THIS IS VERY ANNOYING.
Kenyan politicians have failed to grasp the scope of this Somalia intervention and instead are playing Mr good guy instead of pushing the agendas higher by robustly pushing the troops to take kismayo

BOTTOM LINE IS THERE IS NO POINT IN KENYA BEING IN SOMALIA NOW OR SENDING KDF THERE ONLY TO HAVE THEM MARKING TIME IN THE SANDS WITHOUT THEM DECISIVELY TAKING OUT THUGS IN KISMAYO.
IT IS TURNING OUT TO BE A WORTHLESS EFFORT AS OTHERS RUSH IN TO TAKE THE SPOILS
this thing sucks!!!

countersniper Thu Feb 23 2012, 12:19

in fact the grater Kenyan public has stopped supporting this war because the government and military have failed to read the public mood.
you cannot send men in war and then loose public goodwill because incoherent execution of the war.
the moment they said kismayo is not a priority, they lost the plot.
there is no reason to be in Somalia.
They may as well come back home.

mbs Thu Feb 23 2012, 12:51

as i said before,and as a layman in military warfare, we are getting a raw deal in Somalia. The western world didnt want to get involved in Somalia because whatever Somalia has, ( Oil ? ) is more or less a strategic Oil Reserve. KDF then goes in to 'destabilise' their oil reserve; and maybe the Oil ends in China. They will no way fully support the war unless they are conducting it and will appoint the 'future leaders' of Somalia who will probably leave the oil in the ground till when they are ready to use it and at a cheap price. again, as a layman in warfare, we should withdraw our Forces to our borders, move the immigrants in the largest camp in the world back to Somalia, strike a deal with al shabab( no crossing the border and we wont either ), open up Kismayu for them again. in months or less al-shabab will be back in Somalia. Thats the only way to get respect of Uncle Sam and his Poodle.

timoh Thu Feb 23 2012, 12:56

man, I hate the idea of a failed mission, si we just storm that kismayu finish up the damned alshabab leave sth to reckon and get the hell out, we are capable,the last time i checked. by the way what happened to the UAVs?

Analyst Thu Feb 23 2012, 13:02

When SIN projected that NSIS is useless in ANALYSIS, it could have misconstrued for an emotional blurb, but KDF is now a subject of ridicule.

Kenya Army KDF Achievements in Somalia Dwarfs Major Armies Capabilities
http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=1730

Kenya Defense Forces Denied Opportunity to Become the Most Powerful Regional Army
http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=1724

NSIS Regular Intelligence Failures are Having Catastrophic Ramifications on Kenya
http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=1369

Geopolitically NSIS has failed to provide intelligence that can suffice to proffer the Kibaki administration an upper hand in regional affairs, particularly military threats, economic weather, and regional political muscle. The domestic intelligence arm has failed to identify socio-political counter intelligences measures for current political elite populist policies, divisive political interests, and economic activities all that aggravate the economic progress and socio-political stability of Kenya

In London no one including Mr PM Cameron will admit KDF did the dirty job of washing the well shitted on-napkin of the Somali kid, and maiden Ethiopian Army and the incompetent AMISOM putting them on the hanging line....

Lets agree 'The terms intelligence refers to the collection, analysis, production, and utilisation of information about potentially hostile states, groups, individuals, or activities'...US failed, Ethiopia failed, Uganda-AMISOM were slaughtered in hundreds.....KDF ridiculed them all.......these armies are not happy that they can only savor distantly what they should have done bieng done diligently by a novice army....

NSIS did not read the script well....INTELLIGENCE FAILURES Intelligence failures may occur in every stages of the intelligence process : when decision makers do not know which questions to ask to the units when a bad evaluation occur at the prioritization stage during the processing and collecting stages (ex: spy planes may be shot down, intelligence agents may be caught…) when analysts emphasize an unimportant data or ignore an important one.

Poor evaluation,useless analysis, and misguiding the generals about the outcome of the incursion.
NSIS thought the gains made by KDF would guarantee immense military aid from US and its allies.
They advised KDF to advance within shooting range of Kismayo to keep off other armies and use this as a bargaining chip for arms and other sorts of favors from John and Sam..

These wont comeby owing to the fact Kenya has been positioning itself as a regional power both militarily and economically....and these people feel it is not going down well with them.....so the solution is to embarrass KDF the best way possible!!

The west remains one of the biggest enemies of African Development!!

The only solution left to make KDF glorious and make Somalia stable is to hit back on the west by arming Al-Shabaab like Israel arms the Kurdish in Turkey or the way US is arming Al-Qaeda in Syria. Let Somalia be an Islamic state led by Islamic law while an iron grip of KDF micro-manages the country....

cylon Thu Feb 23 2012, 13:05

[quote="Vitruvian"]I agree. It is an opportunity lost. The art of war is not just about the projection of power but the perception of that power. The pace of KDF's advance shatters that perception and seems to lends credence to M7's "career army" epithets. Emphasis on "shatters" and "seems." Monsoon rains and the "pacification of liberated areas" as justification for such plodding have been stretched to their limit. Whatever the reality on the ground, the perception is that Kenya has bitten off more than it can chew whilst others make off with the spoils and claim the glory. And organise conferences in London. Just about the only place one hears positive news about OLN is on this forum and at the weekly KDF briefings.
Tangible results will have to be shown for the Consolidated Fund's billions and the incontrovertible slush funds. There will be much to answer for if OLN does not result in a very, very Kenya-friendly Azania with Kismayo as its capital. Because merely having the UN and US throw us some loose change for hardware purchases is not commensurate with the cost of this war and the inevitable backlash.[quote]

We have to be tough most of the people in kisamyo are refugees escaping crazy town and i can see why storming kismayo might be a problem but we nned to act quick before the month end i just hope baba jimmy when he comes back can be ready to give the order. Because now as/alqueda are dug in deep now in their last strong hold only if we have two attack plan two by sea and 3 on land forcing AS east where the ethopians would have finished them.

cylon Thu Feb 23 2012, 13:09

mbs wrote:as i said before,and as a layman in military warfare, we are getting a raw deal in Somalia. The western world didnt want to get involved in Somalia because whatever Somalia has, ( Oil ? ) is more or less a strategic Oil Reserve. KDF then goes in to 'destabilise' their oil reserve; and maybe the Oil ends in China. They will no way fully support the war unless they are conducting it and will appoint the 'future leaders' of Somalia who will probably leave the oil in the ground till when they are ready to use it and at a cheap price. again, as a layman in warfare, we should withdraw our Forces to our borders, move the immigrants in the largest camp in the world back to Somalia, strike a deal with al shabab( no crossing the border and we wont either ), open up Kismayu for them again. in months or less al-shabab will be back in Somalia. Thats the only way to get respect of Uncle Sam and his Poodle.

The damage is already done its to late exactly when Alshabab joined ALqueada they signed their death wish. the west is gonna slaughter them all i think our government is playing the long run game which is force tension between tfg and the local militias where they would be forced to break Somalia only option left.

cylon Thu Feb 23 2012, 13:16

Analyst wrote:When SIN projected that NSIS is useless in ANALYSIS, it could have misconstrued for an emotional blurb, but KDF is now a subject of ridicule.

Kenya Army KDF Achievements in Somalia Dwarfs Major Armies Capabilities
http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=1730

Kenya Defense Forces Denied Opportunity to Become the Most Powerful Regional Army
http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=1724

NSIS Regular Intelligence Failures are Having Catastrophic Ramifications on Kenya
http://intelligencebriefs.com/?p=1369

Geopolitically NSIS has failed to provide intelligence that can suffice to proffer the Kibaki administration an upper hand in regional affairs, particularly military threats, economic weather, and regional political muscle. The domestic intelligence arm has failed to identify socio-political counter intelligences measures for current political elite populist policies, divisive political interests, and economic activities all that aggravate the economic progress and socio-political stability of Kenya

In London no one including Mr PM Cameron will admit KDF did the dirty job of washing the well shitted on-napkin of the Somali kid, and maiden Ethiopian Army and the incompetent AMISOM putting them on the hanging line....

Lets agree 'The terms intelligence refers to the collection, analysis, production, and utilisation of information about potentially hostile states, groups, individuals, or activities'...US failed, Ethiopia failed, Uganda-AMISOM were slaughtered in hundreds.....KDF ridiculed them all.......these armies are not happy that they can only savor distantly what they should have done bieng done diligently by a novice army....

NSIS did not read the script well....INTELLIGENCE FAILURES Intelligence failures may occur in every stages of the intelligence process : when decision makers do not know which questions to ask to the units when a bad evaluation occur at the prioritization stage during the processing and collecting stages (ex: spy planes may be shot down, intelligence agents may be caught…) when analysts emphasize an unimportant data or ignore an important one.

Poor evaluation,useless analysis, and misguiding the generals about the outcome of the incursion.
NSIS thought the gains made by KDF would guarantee immense military aid from US and its allies.
They advised KDF to advance within shooting range of Kismayo to keep off other armies and use this as a bargaining chip for arms and other sorts of favors from John and Sam..

These wont comeby owing to the fact Kenya has been positioning itself as a regional power both militarily and economically....and these people feel it is not going down well with them.....so the solution is to embarrass KDF the best way possible!!

The west remains one of the biggest enemies of African Development!!

The only solution left to make KDF glorious and make Somalia stable is to hit back on the west by arming Al-Shabaab like Israel arms the Kurdish in Turkey or the way US is arming Al-Qaeda in Syria. Let Somalia be an Islamic state led by Islamic law while an iron grip of KDF micro-manages the country....

Very well said analyst could agree with you more also with countersnipper very well said. i think the usa knew what kenya was playing for ever since the PM went to Israel thats when the world started to pay atteintion who know what kind of things he said that mosad didn't tell the cia

mekatilili Thu Feb 23 2012, 13:19

It is funny reading the reactions from some on this forum that feel like the world is ending now that an invasion of Kismayo by the gallant KDF forces has not been captured in film to ogle over for years to come. Others are invoking the C word in an attempt to downplay the role of the KDF and boost the morale of their army and their brave and glorious commander in chief for life, Museveni.

War is not waged for entertainment purposes, nor is it a pageantry. The puerility of the assertion that the KDF should have put into use all its equipment in OLN would only be sweet and laughable if put forward by a 5 year old kid. For those dying to witness a bloodbath I suggest 'Redbox' (or whichever video renting service is available in Kenya) and browse under the 'Action' genre for your fix.

These brave men and women representing our nation in Somalia are human beings and not disposable pawns. There are military planners and strategists who I am sure have a better understanding of the issue at hand and instead of yelping 'Lost Glory!' from the comfort of your apartments use the resources here to figure out what the next step is.

The heartbroken keyboard militants are now choking with disappointment. Only 48 hours ago, they were showering this website with praise but now are writing it off as a propaganda outlet for the KDF. The British are hiring, your expertise will be invaluable in their adventures in Kismayo.

Honor the brave soldiers that lost their lives and those that are still deployed in Somalia.

Batian Thu Feb 23 2012, 13:25

I Have followed this war OLN and how it may turn out. For now let Kenya and KDF celebrate the fact that they have created a buffer zone or have cushioned the porous borders from the risk of a possible upswing of militia streaming in the border and that's it. For now forget That KDF will get any credit internationally for its effort. However, the goal of OLN should remain focused on targeting Kisimayu and afmadhow, lest Ethiopia be given the credit for completely wiping out Alshabaab in the southern sector. Quick, short and precise goals should be the focus of Linda Nchi, I wonder what the London conference will assist, let us wait and see? if it is military solutions or aid packages solutions, that is not going to work. UN recently have announced that famine is officially over and harvests have been reported. My dream is to see Somalis free to move peacefuly around their country, and not top see a consistent drive by of UN tanks, uniformed soldiers , and a cross-section of international journalists, and aid agencies setting base there up to infinity. A policing unit should be quickly installed, to cater for the people and a government set at Mogadishu.

Let KDF announce those who want Land come and settle. That is the only way to ensure that normalcy will come back to Somalia. Thinking that a UN solution or AMISOM will be the solution to the current problem in Somalia will again create a re-insurgency of alshabaab.

cylon Thu Feb 23 2012, 13:37

mekatilili wrote:It is funny reading the reactions from some on this forum that feel like the world is ending now that an invasion of Kismayo by the gallant KDF forces has not been captured in film to ogle over for years to come. Others are invoking the C word in an attempt to downplay the role of the KDF and boost the morale of their army and their brave and glorious commander in chief for life, Museveni.

War is not waged for entertainment purposes, nor is it a pageantry. The puerility of the assertion that the KDF should have put into use all its equipment in OLN would only be sweet and laughable if put forward by a 5 year old kid. For those dying to witness a bloodbath I suggest 'Redbox' (or whichever video renting service is available in Kenya) and browse under the 'Action' genre for your fix.

These brave men and women representing our nation in Somalia are human beings and not disposable pawns. There are military planners and strategists who I am sure have a better understanding of the issue at hand and instead of yelping 'Lost Glory!' from the comfort of your apartments use the resources here to figure out what the next step is.

The heartbroken keyboard militants are now choking with disappointment. Only 48 hours ago, they were showering this website with praise but now are writing it off as a propaganda outlet for the KDF. The British are hiring, your expertise will be invaluable in their adventures in Kismayo.

Honor the brave soldiers that lost their lives and those that are still deployed in Somalia.

We are thinking of them and we dont want there life to be in vain like i said KDF IN the beginning had done so much that it shocked M7 We could have finished Somalia of in just two months after the operation was done. I wonder if those earlier rain delays had anything to do with it?

countersniper Thu Feb 23 2012, 13:50

The next CinC must and should set up a judicial military inquiry on how this war has been conducted/prosecuted and its effect on Kenyans overall standing in the scheme of things.

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