Kenya Defence Force

Risasi wrote: TZ-AF dropped the Mig29 deal.. and opted for Improved Chinese copy of the MiG-21…the F-7 https://eastafrican.forumotion.com/t3p90-jeshi-la-wananchi-wa-tanzania-jwtz
It’s said they are “BVR READY”. . the right missile a software upgrade and its set to fire.

Thanks for that note ... ... I have suspected as much of the late generation F-7s. Since they made the SD-10 public, the Chinese said it will also be carried by the F-7 ... ... and then came along the KLJ-6F!

Adama wrote:
Sorry mate but they discussed this months ago that the f-15s are not for AS but for deeper penetration missions into Drc and to support our Northern neighbors from Bashir and to counter the egypt f-16s if the treaty of the lake victoria does not go to well.

Thanks for confirming! I had missed that discussion.

Ned Starks Head wrote:

Adama wrote:
Iran has a few f-5's but i dont know what type of condition they are in but i would like to think they were also reverse-engineered just like there f-14's with Russian tech with new engines,electronics etc. Wouldnt the f-18 hornet be a better choice its a muilt/role fighter that would attack like a bomber,reconnaissance,dogfights,etc rather than the f-15 with is just a really good dog-fighter with a 100-0 kill ratio.

I think we can safely ignore the IRIAF F-5 I doubt they are in good condition but don't quote me on that.
I was thinking more along the lines of Jordanian or Taiwanese type, maybe even Singaporean. The eastern operators probably have some very nicely specced F-5's - and they are all moving on to other birds.

Ah yes good point Admiral Adama on the F-18's - especially their twin engine config would make them very useful in a subsaharan context - where I would suspect the threat of FOD is high. Two engines definitely helps with survivability. However I'm not aware of any AF that has transitioned from F-5 to F-18, typically they tend to move on the the falcon. Not sure what the rationale is behind that but something to be discussed.

I will do some digging on those iranian f-5's. Few years back went to a place called the boneyard in arizona and it was the most saddest thing i saw all types of jets from f-5's to C-5's transports were just sitting idle in a field of death i asked one of the pilots who was in our tour group if they can be activated for duty and his response was shocking he said"They can fly no reason for them to be here just billions wasted". i was surprised because i thought these planes were scrap heaps just waiting to be melted down. Af choose f-16s because they are cheap/capable interceptors to operate and they meet there required need of any airforce.



Did some digging and uncovered that the iranians sold off variants of there f-5's they were only left with the B's for training services.But in 1998/2004 they reverse-engineered 2 variants of the f-5s believe this one of them is actually modeled to be just like the f-20tigershark(a super hornet in f-5 airframes) and the other the other was based on the f-5 tigerII but i tell you these Iranians are good copycats.


This is the F-5tigreII copy the Azarakhsh
Twin seater
Light fighter designed for air to air combat
Russian avionics


This is the F-20 tigreshark knockoff the Saeqeh
length-52.13ft
width-26.67ft
height-13.12
speed-1,056mph
range-1,846miles
2x internal cannons
5 external hard points(can carry all types of bombs and missiles and droptanks)
1 seater
9,700pds empty weight, maximum take-off weight 19,842lbs
2x After burning engines

guys, we aint buying anything now to cope with al-kebab. we prepare for tomorrows war today. the 'new' arsenal coming in are meant for future eventuality, probably a 'rogue' Egypt or a 'failed' state Sudan. lets not pay too much att to al-kebab and forget about the bigger picture ! Egypt/Sudan

MOOZALENDO wrote: This is worse than the siNer's blog, bwana cylon. By the way is it Cyclon or Cylon? I do get confused. Seriously, I find mareeg too marginal as a source to link to?



Moozalendo

A better site

http://alleyesonafrica.com/1/?p=2403

http://www.downsum.com/index.php?page=page&action=viewcommentsy&story=3573277678046963&login=&wakati=&special=&


Is a unified somalia still in the works because once AS is gone the clans will rise to power ever since the discovery of oil its just gonna get more worse.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/10/world/africa/10somalia.html?ref=africa

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/170479.pdf

A profile of african countries on how they deal with terrorism its very long and boring but if you keep reading just in between the lines you pick up Usa true purpose in the world

jasiri wrote:

Ned Starks Head wrote:
With regards to the KAF I can see where your getting at with a Hi-Lo mix but can the KAF afford such a setup or would the money better be spent on concentrating on a single type of airframe?

The air force has no choice. As soon as they opted for the F-15 they had to know that a low entry fighter would be needed for skirmish type confrontations.

Retiring the Tigers not imminent, but catching sweet whiffs of the Kfir C.7 - J79-GEJ1E engine, 8 hard-points, Elta EL/M-2021B radar, HOTAS configured cockpit. Just whiffs, but .... to keep Uncle Woo out of Kenyana, and on the slipstream of the Eagles? But for the chassis, this is an Sammy bird made in Israel.

@ole Sidai - dang right they write of us swinging from trees in Rwandan Highlands. But seriously, it works for us masking these strikes - spreads the ''blame'' and hence diverts reactions away from KDF. Distances - tis not nuclear science either to coordinate-assemble Assets in some pre-determined sites within strike-distance coupla hours before jump-off. Ex-filtration and dispersal in regulated phases.

tis not nuclear science either to coordinate-assemble Assets in some pre-determined sites within strike-distance coupla hours before jump-off. Ex-filtration and dispersal in regulated phases.

With such aerial and ground dominance,the only serious contest might be "chai ni kismayo". Reliably,AQ lunatics were relocated a week ago to Homs and Baba Amr. And the World wonders why A league and sammy is not arming the rebels. AQ presence in the groove complicates whole scenario and assad takes advantage. Anticipation is that they will return to Som after Homs mission. It is distigusting for these guys be able to move around....from one theatre to the other! Hope AS will be history by then!

A recent study by the UN of unexplained explosions of munition sites shows that incidents are on the rise.

The report paints an unfavourable picture of developing and third world countries. Looks like many third world gov'ts are still insecure enough to keep
ammunition dumps in their capitals or other heavily populated areas.

For fear of ammunition dumps being captured during a coup or mutiny,
African regimes kept the ammunition near the seat of gov't. The size of
the blasts, which went on for hours, indicates that this was probably
the country's biggest. I hope they still have a presidential palace.

But the other reason could be that there is a positive correlation between poverty and the likelihood of such incidents.

MANPADS deployed by AS yesterday. Payload substantive to take out a large aerial target. AS Ratcheting the game, not so subtle message what to expect in Chismayou. Means different manenos for the fast movers and for the rotary boys, but they are prepped well. Every indication Afmadow is done this week - but....

ole Nkarei wrote:MANPADS deployed by AS yesterday. Payload substantive to take out a large aerial target. AS Ratcheting the game, not so subtle message what to expect in Chismayou. Means different manenos for the fast movers and for the rotary boys, but they are prepped well. Every indication Afmadow is done this week - but....

Different dance style that is but the song is the same. They were used in Libya and Iraq to no effect. Afghanistan was different because of terrain and very little int flow. Battle effect can be managed effectively but the deepest worry is soft target in the motherland/s....Kikambala/MIA comes into mind. The question is...are all eyes and hears open/sharp to smoke out any attempt for such maneno? How about deflectors.....whatever the expense? Some rumours 2 weeks ago were that major a/lines flying that region got theirs covered.

@ ole nkarei, Kfirs? sisem kitu, bt apo that's not a choice to consider.

@adama, considering they will not be operating this type for 15 years is it value for their money? Tanzania is not poor as ud like us to believe. Kenya, afforded the Shupavu's and Nyayo's back then i don't see why the Tanzanians can't.

[quote="jasiri"]@ ole nkarei, Kfirs? sisem kitu, bt apo that's not a choice to consider.quote]

Just a whiff, Jas, but smoked you right out, eh !!. Like I said, riding in the slipstream of the Eagles transfer. In counter to your favourite Uncle Woo's Bird - cannot blame Sammy for trying, now, can you? The Fly-boys ain't stupid, they will not play, rest easy.

@Ole Sidai - I posted a few weeks ago our disquite about the Manpads Threat to Civilian Air in the EAC / TCC. Cannot seal the border completely, tis much easier to search-and-destroy within Theatre, and the Deltas are fanned out to do just that. The AS ain't stupid either, -tis why there has only been one incident of use thus far by the AS - these nasties were delivered mid-February. Each time they display or use them, ..............

jasiri wrote:@ ole nkarei, Kfirs? sisem kitu, bt apo that's not a choice to consider.

@adama, considering they will not be operating this type for 15 years is it value for their money? Tanzania is not poor as ud like us to believe. Kenya, afforded the Shupavu's and Nyayo's back then i don't see why the Tanzanians can't.

I meant that they dont have hard cash on hand like our military they can sell of their resources to acquire these ships or take out a long time loan. Tanzania can acquire these ships but the government is gonna have to step up its game.

[quote="ole Nkarei"]

jasiri wrote:@ ole nkarei, Kfirs? sisem kitu, bt apo that's not a choice to consider.quote]

Just a whiff, Jas, but smoked you right out, eh !!. Like I said, riding in the slipstream of the Eagles transfer. In counter to your favourite Uncle Woo's Bird - cannot blame Sammy for trying, now, can you? The Fly-boys ain't stupid, they will not play, rest easy.

@Ole Sidai - I posted a few weeks ago our disquite about the Manpads Threat to Civilian Air in the EAC / TCC. Cannot seal the border completely, tis much easier to search-and-destroy within Theatre, and the Deltas are fanned out to do just that. The AS ain't stupid either, -tis why there has only been one incident of use thus far by the AS - these nasties were delivered mid-February. Each time they display or use them, ..............

The Kafiri is just an oversooped french mirage 5 airframe over-pimped with very portent Israeli avionics and a more powerful engine, THAT said .. it seems to have a very active proven history.
it could be good for KDF but its combat radius is just like the F5 tiger...which to me is no improvement...besides the fact that the aircraft it self is no longer in production in israel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAI_Kfir

ole Nkarei wrote:MANPADS deployed by AS yesterday. Payload substantive to take out a large aerial target. AS Ratcheting the game, not so subtle message what to expect in Chismayou. Means different manenos for the fast movers and for the rotary boys, but they are prepped well. Every indication Afmadow is done this week - but....

@ Ole Nkarai my prayers & best wishes are with our deltas as they seek to destroy those MANPADS. Their presence in the region bring about complexities in an already complex theater.

About the Kfirs, very interesting prospect...& a very able fighter/bomber aircraft for its time but how long would the air-frames be serviceable? Seeing that they are early 70's planes and IAF already retired them? Secondly what strategic advantages would they offer over the current f-5 Tigers we have?

Thanks

@Ole Sidai - I posted a few weeks ago our disquite about the Manpads
Threat to Civilian Air in the EAC / TCC. Cannot seal the border
completely, tis much easier to search-and-destroy within Theatre, and
the Deltas are fanned out to do just that. The AS ain't stupid either,
-tis why there has only been one incident of use thus far by the AS -
these nasties were delivered mid-February. Each time they display or use
them, ........

The biggest threat is to civilian operators like the national carriers and all the major airlines. operating from Nairobi and Mombasa.
the police especially the GSU and AP taxed with airport and frontiers security must be very aggressive in policing the areas near or around landing and approach routes.
the most vulnerable are the Nairobi approach as get to the directional beacon on ngong hills which gives aircraft coming to land at JKIA their final headings..
this route is full of slams and other unplanned structures making it easy to hide a man-pad and striking at a laden jumbo jet.
also thousands of mabati structures around moi airport Mombasa should be checked out.
all structures near these ares must be checked out on 247 basis and road blocks mounted to search cars driving near these routes especially early morning and late evening during the busy landings and take offs
one of my friends who is an ex kdf artillery captain and is currently with KQ as a security and training officer tells me that they have been going through some likely scenarios with some locally based Israeli experts on aircraft security and working on a solution.

[quote="ole Nkarei"][quote="jasiri"]@ ole nkarei, Kfirs? sisem kitu, bt apo that's not a choice to consider.quote]

Just a whiff, Jas, but smoked you right out, eh !!. Like I said, riding in the slipstream of the Eagles transfer. In counter to your favourite Uncle Woo's Bird - cannot blame Sammy for trying, now, can you? The Fly-boys ain't stupid, they will not play, rest easy.


@ Ole Nkarai. Apologies, I had not seen your reply on the Kfir. The Fly-boys ain't stupid, they will not play, rest easy

jasiri wrote:@ ole nkarei, Kfirs? sisem kitu, bt apo that's not a choice to consider.

@adama, considering they will not be operating this type for 15 years is it value for their money? Tanzania is not poor as ud like us to believe. Kenya, afforded the Shupavu's and Nyayo's back then i don't see why the Tanzanians can't.

Tanzania has a coastline three times the length of Kenyan coastline, and has several islands nation like Zanzibar and pemba to protect...so i dont understand why they have never developed some sort of semblance to a surface fleet like Kenyans navy.
They have a very large land army based on the Chinese military doctrine.. but nothing else.

Bro’s lets chill out no back door PM pliz...lets do the F-15 dissemination baadaye two day time after OH-8Hundred . ..A2A A2G then you can speculate and contemplate…

watching CNN on Netanyahu/ OBAMA interview. Netnyahu surprised me when he told Obama .. “They are calling you the devil and me the small devil”….it sounded like kid explaining to his big bro why they should bash the next door kid. Hahaha

[quote="ole Nkarei"]

jasiri wrote:@ ole nkarei, Kfirs? sisem kitu, bt apo that's not a choice to consider.quote]

Just a whiff, Jas, but smoked you right out, eh !!. Like I said, riding in the slipstream of the Eagles transfer. In counter to your favourite Uncle Woo's Bird - cannot blame Sammy for trying, now, can you? The Fly-boys ain't stupid, they will not play, rest easy.

@Ole Sidai - I posted a few weeks ago our disquite about the Manpads Threat to Civilian Air in the EAC / TCC. Cannot seal the border completely, tis much easier to search-and-destroy within Theatre, and the Deltas are fanned out to do just that. The AS ain't stupid either, -tis why there has only been one incident of use thus far by the AS - these nasties were delivered mid-February. Each time they display or use them, ..............

i read this story and find it incredible that KDF officers let this character go away without forensically examining his phones,simm cards and numbers.
http://www.nation.co.ke/Features/DN2/Kenyas+hide+and+seek+war+with+Al+Shabaab+/-/957860/1359182/-/1191gkf/-/index.html


it could be the guy is a sleeper cell AS agent or alqwaida waiting to be activated.
why would a herds man be in the bush with such portent means of communications?

Risasi wrote:Bro’s lets chill out no back door PM pliz...lets do the F-15 dissemination baadaye two day time after OH-8Hundred . ..A2A A2G then you can speculate and contemplate…

watching CNN on Netanyahu/ OBAMA interview. Netnyahu surprised me when he told Obama .. “They are calling you the devil and me the small devil”….it sounded like kid explaining to his big bro why they should bash the next door kid. Hahaha

netanyahu openly dislikes Obama but he is hostage to the hawkish policy of that racist foreign minister of his who wants nothing short of an outright attack on Iran yesterday and not tomorrow.
Obama does not want war before he is re elected in November..but Israelis want to bomb Iran anytime now before June 2012 and i think they will do it soon... just before or after Easter.
i watched that live feed on fox news as well but i must say this time round the fox pundits are upset that Obama and netanhyahu are agreeing in public unlike last time netanyahu openly defied Obama like a school kid.

I thought Kfirs are respectable ... ... not necessarily comparing to anything but I do see them competing with upgraded F-5 and 2nd hand F-16s.

Avionics are a very lary cost of modern fighters and if the IAI got the avionics rights, the airframe, for a second line fighter or where potential opponenants are not sofisticated much, Kfirs should be fine. They were the workhorse of Sri Lanka when they committed to end the LTTE. I think they did a great job.

That said, I agree, wrt the KAF with F-15s as the flagships and upgraded fleet of about 20 F-5s, the C-7s are unlikely to find room. In another 10 years when they might be thinking for replacing the F-5s, the C-7s might be too dated. Kfirs might have raised interest before the deal with Jordan ... ... but even that, a new type of plane, skills and ground equipment!! Not sure either.

[quote="ole Nkarei"][quote="jasiri"]@ ole nkarei, Kfirs? sisem kitu, bt apo that's not a choice to consider.quote]

Just a whiff, Jas, but smoked you right out, eh !!. Like I said, riding in the slipstream of the Eagles transfer. In counter to your favourite Uncle Woo's Bird - cannot blame Sammy for trying, now, can you? The Fly-boys ain't stupid, they will not play, rest easy.


@ Ole Nkarai. Apologies, I had not seen your reply on the Kfir. The Fly-boys ain't stupid, they will not play, rest easy

countersniper wrote:
i read this story and find it incredible that KDF officers let this character go away without forensically examining his phones,simm cards and numbers.
http://www.nation.co.ke/Features/DN2/Kenyas+hide+and+seek+war+with+Al+Shabaab+/-/957860/1359182/-/1191gkf/-/index.html


it could be the guy is a sleeper cell AS agent or alqwaida waiting to be activated.
why would a herds man be in the bush with such portent means of communications?

Believe me, Counter-sniper, the MIC chaps with those paratroopers in Tabda are dang good at their manenos. Definitely your reaction would occur to them, too, standard practice. But seriously - that guy lay in wait for a KDF foot patrol and then jumped out into their path. Now, what does that make him? An AS Spy - never. A KDF/TFG deep-insertion operative? Well?? You are the Cop, buddy, you tell us!

[quote="countersniper"][quote="ole Nkarei"]

jasiri wrote:@ ole nkarei, Kfirs? sisem kitu, bt apo that's not a choice to consider.quote]

Just a whiff, Jas, but smoked you right out, eh !!. Like I said, riding in the slipstream of the Eagles transfer. In counter to your favourite Uncle Woo's Bird - cannot blame Sammy for trying, now, can you? The Fly-boys ain't stupid, they will not play, rest easy.

@Ole Sidai - I posted a few weeks ago our disquite about the Manpads Threat to Civilian Air in the EAC / TCC. Cannot seal the border completely, tis much easier to search-and-destroy within Theatre, and the Deltas are fanned out to do just that. The AS ain't stupid either, -tis why there has only been one incident of use thus far by the AS - these nasties were delivered mid-February. Each time they display or use them, ..............

The Kafiri is just an oversooped french mirage 5 airframe over-pimped with very portent Israeli avionics and a more powerful engine, THAT said .. it seems to have a very active proven history.
it could be good for KDF but its combat radius is just like the F5 tiger...which to me is no improvement...besides the fact that the aircraft it self is no longer in production in israel.



I gave us an f-5 alternative the iranian bird thats based on the f-20 tigreshark could be a very good support fighter but the risk would be that sammy would call all types of names

countersniper wrote:

Risasi wrote:Bro’s lets chill out no back door PM pliz...lets do the F-15 dissemination baadaye two day time after OH-8Hundred . ..A2A A2G then you can speculate and contemplate…

watching CNN on Netanyahu/ OBAMA interview. Netnyahu surprised me when he told Obama .. “They are calling you the devil and me the small devil”….it sounded like kid explaining to his big bro why they should bash the next door kid. Hahaha

netanyahu openly dislikes Obama but he is hostage to the hawkish policy of that racist foreign minister of his who wants nothing short of an outright attack on Iran yesterday and not tomorrow.
Obama does not want war before he is re elected in November..but Israelis want to bomb Iran anytime now before June 2012 and i think they will do it soon... just before or after Easter.
i watched that live feed on fox news as well but i must say this time round the fox pundits are upset that Obama and netanhyahu are agreeing in public unlike last time netanyahu openly defied Obama like a school kid.

I would like to think the Iranians are ready for such an attack if Israel is gonna do the same type of attack like they did in jordan. But the distance is very far there plan would either send several arieal tankers ahead before the mission starts in there f-15s then over saudi airspace they would refuel with the tankers go in iran low and fast bomb the targets then leave refuel again then land back home.

mJESHI mMOJA wrote:@Naval Debate…It cost 10M Ksh to float a Nyayo class boat at sea per day. size up those Ex-Russia boat to get the picture for their running cost……for the sake of vanity ,,,TZ wouldn’t do that.

They would if its a need, biggest gas field offshore and they need protecting

@ole

Believe me, Counter-sniper, the MIC chaps with those
paratroopers in Tabda are dang good at their manenos. Definitely your
reaction would occur to them, too, standard practice. But seriously -
that guy lay in wait for a KDF foot patrol and then jumped out into
their path. Now, what does that make him? An AS Spy - never. A KDF/TFG
deep-insertion operative? Well?? You are the Cop, buddy, you tell us!

Beileve you me..if i was bado doing my old jobo the guy could have been bullet Blasted and wasted to his makers..whether Allah or yesu kristo...i dont know.lakini
..and then i would call a press conference the usual style ..display the three phones and one of those American colt pistols popular with thugs and..to the press"my mboyz were on batrol when nthiiss gangista jump from the mbushes..my hofisas on batrol shalenged him to sarenda..but he refuse and open fire .my hofisas replied killing him dead...his two other accomplishes have escaped with mbulet waunds." .end of story..as the cameras capture the lifeless body being thrown into the back of a battered police landfcruiser.

countersniper wrote:@ole

Believe me, Counter-sniper, the MIC chaps with those
paratroopers in Tabda are dang good at their manenos. Definitely your
reaction would occur to them, too, standard practice. But seriously -
that guy lay in wait for a KDF foot patrol and then jumped out into
their path. Now, what does that make him? An AS Spy - never. A KDF/TFG
deep-insertion operative? Well?? You are the Cop, buddy, you tell us!

Beileve you me..if i was bado doing my old jobo the guy could have been bullet Blasted and wasted to his makers..whether Allah or yesu kristo...i dont know.lakini
..and then i would call a press conference the usual style ..display the three phones and one of those American colt pistols popular with thugs and..to the press"my mboyz were on batrol when nthiiss gangista jump from the mbushes..my hofisas on batrol shalenged him to sarenda..but he refuse and open fire .my hofisas replied killing him dead...his two other accomplishes have escaped with mbulet waunds." .end of story..as the cameras capture the lifeless body being thrown into the back of a battered police landfcruiser.

I'm trying to make friends here but this @ Countersniper is NOT funny...