Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

mashaa Sun Jun 10 2012, 14:36

This is very sad indeed,my God rest their souls in peace.

countersniper Sun Jun 10 2012, 14:36

ole Nkarei wrote:
Spartan wrote:R.I.P Prof. George Saitoti. A nice man and a true East African

Indeed he was @Spartan.

George Saitoti - The Gentleman-Politician.

From a neighbouring Constituency, but been have living in his backyard for over twenty years. Simple, amiable, kindhearted and very humble, despite his Billions - you would have to be all those to be constantly re-elected in a rural a constituency as Kajiado North. Brilliant mind, little gets past his intellect. inscrutable Patience of the crocodile. Few chinks in his personality. Very steadfast in his friendship, deliberate, calculating and very thorough as a leader. A details-man ad-minutae, tough to convince but will buy all the sand you have once he is convinced. Tough as nails.

What a loss !!

A GOOD MAN no doubt.i have once been entertained at his house in lavington nairobi when he was vice president in moi days.
the man had come back from a foreign trip one Saturday and after we escorted him home from the airport..he asked us not to go but stay and be treated to a meal. Two mbuzi were chinjuad and afterwords all of us were three thousand kshs each richer when we got home that night..good money those days.his wife was bit of an arse...very fussy and nagging.

areba Sun Jun 10 2012, 14:41

godspeed @ON.

jasiri Sun Jun 10 2012, 15:12

Gentlemen, while we are in this condolences business let's not forget about the crew of Delta Tango. One soul in particular, the female pilot (who i prefer not to name here seein as the media doesn't have her name yet). She had just got her wings and it really is sad to see her gone so soon. very social character, bubbly, always had a ready smile. I can not count the times we've 'jump seated' on her chopper missions. God Rest Her Soul.

jasiri Sun Jun 10 2012, 15:22

can someone tell us if this helicopter was perhaps carrying too many people ? two pilots two body guards and the two VIPs?

the chopper was not overloaded. it is designed to carry 7 souls, 3 people back 2 people facing the 3 and two crew. Captain Luke is experieced that i know, Nancy(i see muna majina) was now yellowing so i won't bet my money on inexperience. Visibility was poor this morning but again, the air craft has a weather radar. I'm not saying this is the reason but probable cause may be mechanical-new plane, new series on the assembly line e.t.c. yea, it's the exact same one i posted here. God rest their souls.
ON, Gahawa Kismayu sio? rejeeni nyumbani salama walinzi wetu. God speed.

countersniper Sun Jun 10 2012, 15:23

jasiri wrote:Gentlemen, while we are in this condolences business let's not forget about the crew of Delta Tango. One soul in particular, the female pilot (who i prefer not to name here seein as the media doesn't have her name yet). She had just got her wings and it really is sad to see her gone so soon. very social character, bubbly, always had a ready smile. I can not count the times we've 'jump seated' on her chopper missions. God Rest Her Soul.

umechelewa..both pilot and co pilot have already been named as LUKE OYUGI AND NANCY GITUANJA...

Sierra Kilo Sun Jun 10 2012, 15:25

jasiri wrote:Gentlemen, while we are in this condolences business let's not forget about the crew of Delta Tango. One soul in particular, the female pilot (who i prefer not to name here seein as the media doesn't have her name yet). She had just got her wings and it really is sad to see her gone so soon. very social character, bubbly, always had a ready smile. I can not count the times we've 'jump seated' on her chopper missions. God Rest Her Soul.

Very true indeed @Jasiri, She was one of the few female Helio pilots that our uniformed forces have. Gone too soon RIP Nancy:(

jasiri Sun Jun 10 2012, 15:37

@countersniper, had no access to a screen from where i was.

countersniper Sun Jun 10 2012, 16:43

smoke seen coming from the choper before it crushed.
no may day signal or radio call from pilots?
may be an explosion on board? meaning pilots had no time to react?

Spartan Sun Jun 10 2012, 17:02

countersniper wrote:
jasiri wrote:Gentlemen, while we are in this condolences business let's not forget about the crew of Delta Tango. One soul in particular, the female pilot (who i prefer not to name here seein as the media doesn't have her name yet). She had just got her wings and it really is sad to see her gone so soon. very social character, bubbly, always had a ready smile. I can not count the times we've 'jump seated' on her chopper missions. God Rest Her Soul.

umechelewa..both pilot and co pilot have already been named as LUKE OYUGI AND NANCY GITUANJA...

Have been following the story on Citizen and Nation TV on DSTV. Everyone is showing pictures of the two big men only. Understandable. But I had to know the pilots at least
Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) - Page 11 576717_317199941686631_170955221_n

Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) - Page 11 576717_317199941686631_170955221_n

R.I.P Nancy

Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) - Page 11 303404_127851717350729_2122629774_n

R.I.P Capt. Luke

Guest Sun Jun 10 2012, 22:52

RIP Hon.George Saitoti and Ojode my heart dropped when i heard the news a great loss to the nation.

OleNakeri GodSpeed enda choma Chai huko Kismayo..... The Armed Forces Of kenya i thank you for you're service and i salute you.

@Countersniper- Brand new helicopter that had already been tested by the police several times in recent excursions to kisumu, mombasa, etc. I smell something very fishy here that shouldn't surprise many because we Kenyans are one superstitious bunch

mogen Mon Jun 11 2012, 01:35

Hannibal wrote:RIP Hon.George Saitoti and Ojode my heart dropped when i heard the news a great loss to the nation.

OleNakeri GodSpeed enda choma Chai huko Kismayo..... The Armed Forces Of kenya i thank you for you're service and i salute you.

@Countersniper- Brand new helicopter that had already been tested by the police several times in recent excursions to kisumu, mombasa, etc. I smell something very fishy here that shouldn't surprise many because we Kenyans are one superstitious bunch

Latest: Reportedly the police commissioner used the ill-fated chopper to Mombasa and parked it back at 9pm, the crew advised it should not be used the next day to allow for basic servicing due to change from low altitude to high altitude, that was ignored, the plane was new, three months old....
@Jasiri - what is this altitude thing again?

@ON
What is going on here? Ethiopian troops pulling out to make way for A.S.?

Ethiopian Troops Pull Out Main Town in Central Somalia

Columns of Ethiopian troops and pro government Ahlu Sunna Waljama'a ASWJ fighters backed by armored vehicles have on Sunday pulled out completely from the main town of Al Bur in Galgadud region, central Somalia, local residents said.
Residents say the Al Qaeda-linked Al shabab militants recaptured the town ofEl Burshortly after pro-government forces arrived on Sunday, accompanied by members of the moderate Islamist ASWJ militia, which is fighting alongside Somalia's UN-backed government

http://allafrica.com/stories/201206100066.html

Guest Mon Jun 11 2012, 04:39

mogen wrote:
@ON
What is going on here? Ethiopian troops pulling out to make way for A.S.?

A. ENDF is prepping for a movement-in-force for the Southern Coast. Fresh reinforcements already coming through from Homeland, and a regrouping of the Force already in-theatre from outposts that are not prioritized. ''Race for Berlin'' is on.

B. A recent very bad fall-out between ENDF and ASWJ (just one of very many) on primacy of tactical oversight in Galgudud was worsened by persistent Ethiopian inability to integrate local militia in operations planning. Indiscriminate killings of civilian Somalia in reactive shootings by ENDF has not made relationships any easier. A zoomaali is a zoomaali to the ENDF soldier, it seems like!!

C. ASWJ cannot hold El-Bur without the ENDF, and pulled out to avoid an Al-shabaab backlash massacre.

Damn the poor Civilians caught in the middle of this BS movement.

All things considered, Barre and Madobe are preferable to the AS and Civilians in Chisimayu than the Ethiopians or the Ugandan-propped TFG - they are a 'known factor' in Chisimayu, and to the AS, the lesser devil!! Wouldn't surprise if the city capitulates well before ENDF or TFG show up outside the city gates!!

There lies ENDF urgency for this recent force-regrouping, and a striking out for the Coast.

mogen Mon Jun 11 2012, 05:42

ole Nkarei wrote:
mogen wrote:
@ON
What is going on here? Ethiopian troops pulling out to make way for A.S.?

C. ASWJ cannot hold El-Bur without the ENDF, and pulled out to avoid an Al-shabaab backlash massacre.

All things considered, Barre and Madobe are preferable to the AS and Civilians in Chisimayu than the Ethiopians or the Ugandan-propped TFG - they are a 'known factor' in Chisimayu, and to the AS, the lesser devil!! Wouldn't surprise if the city capitulates well before ENDF or TFG show up outside the city gates!!

There lies ENDF urgency for this recent force-regrouping, and a striking out for the Coast.

[justify]@Ole Nkarei [why do some people call you Ole Nakeri?]
I often wonder what informs such self-defeating decisions made by the ENDF planners/strategists. Their intention seems to be something other than longterm stabilization of Somalia yet that is what will benefit them and all of us in Kenyana. They should have learnt from their 2006 incursion and past history.

Indeed, they are unwise to think KDF planners hawana macho ya twiga, wamekuwa wakijeza na mud kama watoto au wanalala fwaaa!!. It is annoying.

The KDF has to keep working on A.S. with tact and just add Ethiopia to the many interested parties that we have to manage with dexterity. They have the potential to spoil the Kismayu chai/gahawa party and methinks, they are doing Sharif's bidding. Whatever the case, they are going about it unwisely. Any further delay of Chai Kismayu does not help us. If the city capitulates sooner than later, so be it. When we used to hunt gazelles and someone caught it he still shared with buddies. He never took it all to his home. Someone should tell the ENDF not to worry because KDF will share the chai moto.

ENDF needs AWSJ they are abandoning them at the hour of need just to race and have a share of Chai ya Kismayu. Even sending fresh battle troops and wagons. How will they go back to working with AWSJ? To me, looks reactive and not strategic at all.

mogen Mon Jun 11 2012, 06:13

Bardhere, Gedo.

Reportedly, Al Shabaab are now taking photos of youths & elders in Bardhere (Gedo) ordering them to stay in the town or face death. www.somaliareport.com

This is the place where three Kenyan security personnel were held captive see old story below:

Al Shabaab insurgents hold captive three Kenyans in Bardhere
14 Jan 14, 2012 - 9:17:24 AM
Three Kenyan soldiers were seen chained on a back of a pick up that was allegedly looted from the Kenyan authorities, the hostages were seen in the southern town of Bardhere, Radio Garowe reports....Read more

In the meantime

Biibi (35km from Afmadow) is surrounded

"Right now we are in the vicinity of Biibi which is a small town about 35 km from Ahmadow," Oguna told Xinhua on Friday.

"We are not physically sitting in the Biibi town but we have surrounded it.

"We plan to take it over soon and then move on," Oguna said.

Source:Coast Week

Interesting discussions going on here: SomaliNet Forums

areba Mon Jun 11 2012, 08:28

i would also not rule out funnelling AS out of Kismayo into the open, where we have better control of the theatre compared to the backstreets of chaismayu. Im guessing as long as we control the narrative, as long as every zoomali is looking at KE's next move, they just might look beyond the shortcomings of the ENDF as operational ineptitude and not sinister motives on the whole operation..

jasiri Mon Jun 11 2012, 16:59

Latest: Reportedly the police commissioner used the ill-fated chopper to Mombasa and parked it back at 9pm, the crew advised it should not be used the next day to allow for basic servicing due to change from low altitude to high altitude, that was ignored, the plane was new, three months old....

I don't know much about copter morgen so i won'y comment as this would amount to gross speculation. what ad say is that i don't think this altitude configuration makes sense seeing as the copter crashed at Ngong which by law mean it should have been at 6500ft alt. in any case even if u configure for altitude it still has to land right? The plane couldn't have landed at 9pm coz at 7pm i saw it parked outside the hangar, n Wilson airport shuts down at 9PM.
@Risasi, hii altitude maneno may it be same as our 'mixture setting'?

Cycoh 'DUDUS' Mon Jun 11 2012, 18:46

countersniper wrote:
mogen wrote:Some men with torches said to have entered Hilton Hotel tunnel
"Some men have entered a tunnel near Hilton with torch lights. The motive is unknown. Council askaris and police have refused to enter the tunnel. On location source says the men are still inside."
Source: Strategic Intelligence News
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=423219344385352&id=160015394039083

where is this tunnel? it is simple to get the city council architecture plans and see where the tunnnel leads
also it is possible seal it and shut it up with steel bars then pump in tear gas grenades. to flush those rats out.

This is the biggest illusion a human being-a guerilla org'n, a militia outfit, in the name of being a 'terrorist group' can hav.Thinking that u can bring down a tall building in Nairobi??!!

Maybe it will happen in another place, another time, another world n in another life.This is my own view of this situation. Somebody can second me.

How hav u been gentlemen n soldiers?

R.I.P George-u were a serious guy to reckon, very courageous indeed. Crying or Very sad

Guest Tue Jun 12 2012, 01:55

jasiri wrote:
Latest: Reportedly the police commissioner used the ill-fated chopper to Mombasa and parked it back at 9pm, the crew advised it should not be used the next day to allow for basic servicing due to change from low altitude to high altitude, that was ignored, the plane was new, three months old....
I don't know much about copter morgen so i won'y comment as this would amount to gross speculation. what ad say is that i don't think this altitude configuration makes sense seeing as the copter crashed at Ngong which by law mean it should have been at 6500ft alt. in any case even if u configure for altitude it still has to land right? The plane couldn't have landed at 9pm coz at 7pm i saw it parked outside the hangar, n Wilson airport shuts down at 9PM.
@Risasi, hii altitude maneno may it be same as our 'mixture setting'?

With no apparent reason why this brand new, highly reliable chopper with an experienced crew at the helm should have simply dropped out of the sky, I'm keeping my fingers crossed for coincidences. Anything else would be catastrophic.
Professor George was, among other things, a key ICC prosecution witness.
And a strong contender for State House

Ole Sidai Tue Jun 12 2012, 02:54

Vitruvian wrote:
jasiri wrote:
Latest: Reportedly the police commissioner used the ill-fated chopper to Mombasa and parked it back at 9pm, the crew advised it should not be used the next day to allow for basic servicing due to change from low altitude to high altitude, that was ignored, the plane was new, three months old....
I don't know much about copter morgen so i won'y comment as this would amount to gross speculation. what ad say is that i don't think this altitude configuration makes sense seeing as the copter crashed at Ngong which by law mean it should have been at 6500ft alt. in any case even if u configure for altitude it still has to land right? The plane couldn't have landed at 9pm coz at 7pm i saw it parked outside the hangar, n Wilson airport shuts down at 9PM.
@Risasi, hii altitude maneno may it be same as our 'mixture setting'?
With no apparent reason why this brand new, highly reliable chopper with an experienced crew at the helm should have simply dropped out of the sky, I'm keeping my fingers crossed for coincidences. Anything else would be catastrophic.
Professor George was, among other things, a key ICC prosecution witness.

NOW NOW NOW NOW.....Gentlemen stop these speculations and rumour seeds! This reminds me of the many burials I officiated at some community living West of Kilgoris and East of Nyalgunga. To them, no death is natural. There must be a conspiracy no matter clear accident like this one. Gentlemen, take things slow and let investigations be done. Seeds of rumour is the wrong way to go at this time. R.I.P to the departed.

mogen Tue Jun 12 2012, 04:15

Biibi, Southern Somalia

Apparently there has been fighting there [only 75km from Kismayu]

https://youtu.be/Lj7aEY9BPdY

Interesting article here:
The importance of Kismayu

mogen Tue Jun 12 2012, 06:53

[quote="Vitruvian"]

jasiri wrote:
Latest: Reportedly the police commissioner used the ill-fated chopper to Mombasa and parked it back at 9pm, the crew advised it should not be used the next day to allow for basic servicing due to change from low altitude to high altitude, that was ignored, the plane was new, three months old....
I don't know much about copter morgen so i won'y comment as this would amount to gross speculation. what ad say is that i don't think this altitude configuration makes sense seeing as the copter crashed at Ngong which by law mean it should have been at 6500ft alt. in any case even if u configure for altitude it still has to land right? The plane couldn't have landed at 9pm coz at 7pm i saw it parked outside the hangar, n Wilson airport shuts down at 9PM.
@Risasi, hii altitude maneno may it be same as our 'mixture setting'?

@Vitruvian
Apparently, according to a flight path shown in today's Daily Nation Page 4, something doesn't add up. If the info provided in the Nation is true, it appears the pilots detected problems over Undiri Swamps in Kikuyu. Then they made a decision to return to base at Wilson Airport and that's how they crashed in Ngong Forest. The pilots could simply have landed the chopper at the many open grounds in Kikuyu including schools, roads.

Analyst Tue Jun 12 2012, 07:24

@Mogen
Apparently, according to a flight path shown in today's Daily Nation Page 4, something doesn't add up. If the info provided in the Nation is true, it appears the pilots detected problems over Undiri Swamps in Kikuyu. Then they made a decision to return to base at Wilson Airport and that's how they crashed in Ngong Forest. The pilots could simply have landed the chopper at the many open grounds in Kikuyu including schools, roads.

[/quote]

Mogen.....am also not very convinced about the actual cause but i reckon the buck stops with the pilot though based on the specifications of the helicopter the likelihood of crashing that helicopter were low...Check Strategic Intelligence Briefs

Analysis

By eliminating, the factors on basis of probability mechanical error, loss of fuel, design defect, collision with other aircrafts, and electrical malfunctions are ruled out based on the manufacturer’s record of accomplishment, besides the warranty and serviceability of the helicopter.

We are left with the below factors as the causes of the crash

Operator error
Sudden change in weather conditions
Miscommunication from ground control
Loss of control

According to intelligence gathered by Strategic Intelligence, there was communication between ground controls ruling out this possibility. Police and media reports indicate poor weather which we rule out due to the Eurocopter AS350 B3e Ecureuil helicopter navigation capabilities. This helicopter can fly in very high altitude and land very quickly if the sensors report a navigational, mechanical, or electrical fault. Intelligence gathered from the ground verify the fact that weather was not bad nor was there a sudden change of the weather that such a helicopter could not withstand and navigate through.

Source Strategic Intelligence Briefs
page /?p=2504

Guest Tue Jun 12 2012, 09:31

mogen wrote:why do some people call you Ole Nakeri?

Only the young lion @Cylon calls me that, and he does not intend any harm Laughing

@Analyst - very well put together essay on their Pages about that Helios Accident, but despite the logic of the sequential argument there, it is still speculative ata-kama. I think that at these poignant moments we are, these speculations are fraught with dangerous consequences, and are wholly unproductive anyway.Because with repeated expressions intelligent suppositions such as these do get to acquire a ''truth'' label about them and a live of their own, that becomes very difficult to disabuse our people from or repudiate effectively later one.

This is not a Military or Intelligence debate which allows for some healthy speculative suppositions - it is about the death of a key member of Government of Kenya who is touted to be a very strong contender in our difficult and emotive Presidential Succession election. It is possible that if this tragic accident had happened in America, the Country would be in Lock-down country-wide status RIGHT THIS MOMENT!! Probably also on Defcon 2, for crying out loud!! We need to keep these speculations out of present engagement - for the moment. The cry that the Elections 2007 were stolen emanated from one stupid Danish Embassy functionary on the 28th December 2007 who had only visited a total of 18 Polling stations - and we all know what a life this call acquire with the retelling of it.

Ama? I beg, I beg O!!

Guest Tue Jun 12 2012, 09:44

Ole Sidai wrote:
Vitruvian wrote:With no apparent reason why this brand new, highly reliable chopper with an experienced crew at the helm should have simply dropped out of the sky, I'm keeping my fingers crossed for coincidences. Anything else would be catastrophic.
Professor George was, among other things, a key ICC prosecution witness.

NOW NOW NOW NOW.....Gentlemen stop these speculations and rumour seeds! This reminds me of the many burials I officiated at some community living West of Kilgoris and East of Nyalgunga. To them, no death is natural. There must be a conspiracy no matter clear accident like this one. Gentlemen, take things slow and let investigations be done. Seeds of rumour is the wrong way to go at this time. R.I.P to the departed.

You are correct about not jumping to conclusions. However, considering the nature of the Kenyan political animal, the stakes involved, the multiple instances of similar "solutions" and the fact of an accident that simply should not have happened, it would be irresponsible to ignore the possibility of such a scenario in the search for the truth.
The circumstances of this accident are odd, to say the least, but I DO hope that this is simply an unfortunate twist of fate and nothing more

Analyst Tue Jun 12 2012, 10:26

@Analyst - very well put together essay on their Pages about that Helios Accident, but despite the logic of the sequential argument there, it is still speculative ata-kama. I think that at these poignant moments we are, these speculations are fraught with dangerous consequences, and are wholly unproductive anyway.Because with repeated expressions intelligent suppositions such as these do get to acquire a ''truth'' label about them and a live of their own, that becomes very difficult to disabuse our people from or repudiate effectively later one.

This is not a Military or Intelligence debate which allows for some healthy speculative suppositions - it is about the death of a key member of Government of Kenya who is touted to be a very strong contender in our difficult and emotive Presidential Succession election. It is possible that if this tragic accident had happened in America, the Country would be in Lock-down country-wide status RIGHT THIS MOMENT!! Probably also on Defcon 2, for crying out loud!! We need to keep these speculations out of present engagement - for the moment. The cry that the Elections 2007 were stolen emanated from one stupid Danish Embassy functionary on the 28th December 2007 who had only visited a total of 18 Polling stations - and we all know what a life this call acquire with the retelling of it.

Ama? I beg, I beg O!!

[/quote]

Ole Nkarei Sir,

I agree with you. Speculation is a panacea for controversy. It fans emotions and other forms of discontent. However, there are some queues i picked at the end of that analysis that do not summarize the article rather opens a new front of debate.

Check below

What caused the malfunction that led to the burning of the helicopter? Was the helicopter serviced fully? Was there an electrician who serviced and checked the electrical system of the helicopter? Where was the helicopter serviced and stored? Is it safe enough?

Then look at these initial points...

a) According to the manufacturer, the Eurocopter AS350 Ecureuil remains as the leading best single engine helicopters in performance, versatility, and safety. Eurocpter confirms that the AS350 Ecureuil is fitted with a dual LCD-screen Vehicle and Engine Multifunction Display (VEMD), allowing the pilot to check at one glance the main vehicle and engine parameters – thus reducing his workload and enhancing safety (Eurocpter Technologies).

b) Another very good characteristic of the helicopter is that the Eurocopter AS350 Ecureuil has a dual-channel Full Authority Digital Engine Control (FADEC) generation is backed-up with one independent control system to enhance safety and decrease the pilot’s workload. It also ensures engine monitoring, providing it with the correct fuel, air and ignition ratios required for optimum performance with minimum fuel expenditure to suit any given exterior condition.

Then relate the question at the end.....

Where was the helicopter serviced and stored? Is it safe enough?.....

As usual routine procedures...(like the dreaded ADMIN in barracks,..heheee!!)...someone could have sneaked in that compound do his nicky nacky and leave. Mission accomplished.
Actually, my assumption is....'SOMEONE HAD SAITOTI's DIARY, CHECKED THOROUGHLY ALL HIS PLANS IN ADVANCE. HE IDENTIFIED SUNDAY AS COOL, PROBABLY A MONTH OR TWO AGO. HE THEN CAREFULLY STUDIED SAITIOTI AND HIS SECURITY TEAM ROUTINE. A LADY PILOT AND HIS USUAL BODYGUARD. THEN STUDIED THE FLAWS IN THEIR ROUTINES. CHECKED HOW THE COPTER IS SERVICED (IF AT ALL, IT IS). STUDIED THE SECURITY PROCEDURES AND ROUTINES FLAWS AT THE STORAGE FACILITY AND MADE HIS LAST MOVE. SNEAKS INSIDE THE STORAGE FACILITY, PICKS THE DOORLOCKS, OPENS AN ENGINE COMPARTMENT, REMOVES A CABLE THAT POWERS THE dual-channel Full Authority Digital Engine Control (FADEC) generation AND THE independent control system BOTH WHICH enhance safety and decrease the pilot’s workload.

IN FLIGHT THE PILOT REALIZED THE ENGINE CONTROL SYSTEMS WERE DEAD AND NOT REPORTING ON HIS DASHBOARD. SHE INSTINCTIVELY FUMBLES WITH CONTROLS, PANICS, AND LOSES CONTROL.......and KAAABOOOOM!!....God have mercy!

Thats the basis of this particular air-crash investigation....my humble manual based initial analysis.

Guest Tue Jun 12 2012, 10:32

ole Nkarei wrote:The cry that the Elections 2007 were stolen emanated from one stupid Danish Embassy functionary on the 28th December 2007 who had only visited a total of 18 Polling stations - and we all know what a life this call acquire with the retelling of it.

I beg to differ. There was a great deal more substance - conclusive and circumstantial - to that cry than the opinion of a sole Danish diplomat. We did not as a nation teeter on the brink of oblivion on that mere basis. The common mwananchi deserves more credence than that. Compare how much money, time and prayer meetings it has taken to polarise the country again.
But this is just my opinion. Sadly, in this day and age, our opinions on such issues ultimately depend on what political options we support - or in too many instances, merely oppose.
Ditto as to whether the aftermath of the above was a legitimate reaction to genuine grievances - or simply a manipulation by certain individuals. Or whether Chapter Six is merely an adornment. Or whether there is any legal substance to the ICC cases. Or whether this international court based in Holland is in reality just a marionette on the internal Kenyan political stage. Etcetera. Believing such is as ridiculous to those who don't as not believing it is to those who do.
The road to Kenyana is a long one.

Guest Tue Jun 12 2012, 11:24

Vitruvian wrote:
I beg to differ. There was a great deal more substance - conclusive and circumstantial - to that cry than the opinion of a sole Danish diplomat. We did not as a nation teeter on the brink of oblivion on that mere basis. The common mwananchi deserves more credence than that.
The road to Kenyana is a long one.

Seems to me every reaction I get from you these days, my brother Vitruvian, is preambled on these dreadful phase ''I beg to differ''! Eh? But you are right that road to Kenyana is a long slog, and we must all walk it together.

And just as you are right that the Devil came visiting on a more explicit invitation than those feeble words of the Danish Embassy fella. Of course, if one looks for the evil in each of us one will surely find it, that does not necessary obviate the outweighing presence of ''Good'' in the same person; I was simply pointing that irrationality and imbalance in our reactions post the elections 2007 was first (insidiously? preemptively?) generated by a fella that had not enough substance and uzalendo right at premature stage of the Election 2007.

I ain't supposed to have a political opinion one way or the other about those events, and I will not let you pound me to dust trying to outfight you on what is actually your forte'! Laughing

@Analyst - seems to me also that what this forum needs right now is a hefty distraction healthy enough to generate debate - about Zoomaalia if the Prefect okays, to scatter these speculations to Venus or Pluto!! AS has been conducting Aggressor night-patrols in Kismayo since a week now, on the sea and land approaches too - you know why?? Gaadi, Barre and Madobe nearly agreed on Gedo/Jubaland / Kismayo post-AS administration - Meles in panic mode, Sharif grinding teeth in frustration. USNavy prowling again our EEZ making large noises about ''wanting in' on KDF/Navy Maritime Ops off Zoomalia. Johnny Carson dropping veiled threats for caution in Crazy town juzi, in the face of GoK doggedness to OLN original Strategic Objective. Very fluid situation.

Analyst Tue Jun 12 2012, 11:44

@Analyst - seems to me also that what this forum needs right now is a hefty distraction healthy enough to generate debate - about Zoomaalia if the Prefect okays, to scatter these speculations to Venus or Pluto!! AS has been conducting Aggressor night-patrols in Kismayo since a week now, on the sea and land approaches too - you know why?? Gaadi, Barre and Madobe nearly agreed on Gedo/Jubaland / Kismayo post-AS administration - Meles in panic mode, Sharif grinding teeth in frustration. USNavy prowling again our EEZ making large noises about ''wanting in' on KDF/Navy Maritime Ops off Zoomalia. Johnny Carson dropping veiled threats for caution in Crazy town juzi, in the face of GoK doggedness to OLN original Strategic Objective. Very fluid situation.

[/quote]

Ole Nkarei

I think we were not wrong when we supposed Uganda and Ethiopia pose a significant threat to the Somali peace process.

I wonder who Johnny Carson refers to as the 'SPOILER' and why his stooge Ethiopia has suddenly behaved the coward instead of the protector.

Is the Jubaland project manifesting too rapidly to stop?
Could the objective of AMISOM be not exactly the spirit of peace and the values KDF espouses?

Shed more light.

Guest Tue Jun 12 2012, 11:57

ole Nkarei wrote:
Vitruvian wrote:
I beg to differ. There was a great deal more substance - conclusive and circumstantial - to that cry than the opinion of a sole Danish diplomat. We did not as a nation teeter on the brink of oblivion on that mere basis. The common mwananchi deserves more credence than that.
The road to Kenyana is a long one.

Seems to me every reaction I get from you these days, my brother Vitruvian, is preambled on these dreadful phase ''I beg to differ''! Eh?

No, no, no, Tom. It's just that yours is a very incisive mind and one that I enjoy interacting with. I cherish the challenge is all. So I prod you to keep the ball rolling. As I have said before - an exchange of ideas, views, perspectives, etc. It enriches us all. Do not take it the wrong way.
Consider it a game if you will.

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