Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

ole Nkarei wrote:The ENDF maneuvers out of LUQ in force, re taking ground earlier this year ceded to ASWJ and then subsequently lost to Alkeebab in Bay and Hiiraan.

KDF swamping and side stepping Jillib and punching northwards towards Marka.

KDF 30th running SAD aggravated ops in Jubba towards Dhobley and Bardhedhe. AirCaval ranging in Gedo and Bikool.

Intel indicate Alkebab funneling towards Crazy Town from South and Central Zoomaliya.

Unless we fluff it with crafting the civil admin in Chai Town, Alkeebab is roast-ready with a sweet and sour sauce boat on the sidetable.

Sector I is kinda quiet.! What gives@ Aggressor-one, Crane?

@azFavor - stay clear of my "six".

mogen wrote:

ole Nkarei wrote:http://allafrica.com/stories/201210140422.html

Interesting times ahead. With greater strategic military engagement with Africa through established Regional Bodies combined with credit financing for Development now equal to a combined IMF and World Bank, China might just pull Africa out of our perpetual poverty in her quest own survival and development.

China beats the 'West' hands down thanks to the 'Third World' tag that they wear with pride alongside many underdeveloped countries. They have used this in such a clever manner that no single developing country looks at them the way Western countries are viewed by many 'Third World' countries. China is often seen as a bigger, well-endowed brother. The non-interference bla bla... is part of their dominate-and-control strategy and it is working very well for them. Unfortunately, self-interest is their Archille's heel as it would eventually turn the developing countries' citizens against their benevolent big brother. In this respect, their change in policy is certainly understandable but it is going to be interesting to see how well they balance the tricky issues of development partnership and security. Will they continue to turn a blind eye even in cases of despicable human rights abuses on the continent? Certainly, supporting despots [eg Equatorial Guinea's Teodoro Obiang Nguema Mbasogo], who abound in impoverished countries, can backfire.

mogen wrote:Mombasa Republican Council chairman Omar Mwamnuazi was arrested in Kwale following an exchange of fire with police in which 2 of his bodyguards were killed. What is disturbing is the fact that Omar Mwamnuazi is a former KDF soldier.

Standard Online wrote:Reports say there was a gunfight at the home of Mwamnuazi before he was arrested that led to the killings. The chairman is a former soldier...

http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000068457&pageNo=1

Omar Mwamnuazi

Neutral Ground wrote:Hi all ,especially the "elders', am sort of new here but willing to learn and participate in this dynamic and disciplined forum.
Protocals earlier breached highly regretted,that is posting without introductions.

Sierra Kilo wrote:

mogen wrote:Mombasa Republican Council chairman Omar Mwamnuazi was arrested in Kwale following an exchange of fire with police in which 2 of his bodyguards were killed. What is disturbing is the fact that Omar Mwamnuazi is a former KDF soldier.

Standard Online wrote:Reports say there was a gunfight at the home of Mwamnuazi before he was arrested that led to the killings. The chairman is a former soldier...

http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000068457&pageNo=1

Omar Mwamnuazi

We should not be entertaining these type of individuals that are bent on disrupting the economic activites of any part of the country. Maybe we should send this guy Luzira and not Kamiti so that by the time he is back he will have styled up like one Mr Kimathi.

ole Nkarei wrote:...KDF swamping and side stepping Jillib and punching northwards towards Marka.

Neutral Ground wrote:@ Sierra kilo ,Ashante

@mogen
Honourable souls of our lands are paying the ultimate price
in foreign land so that these lagards can abuse the product of such sacrifices?
Ah! Luzira I concur.And to boot a former uniform should know better .

sagafoot wrote:

mogen wrote:

ole Nkarei wrote:http://allafrica.com/stories/201210140422.html

Interesting times ahead. With greater strategic military engagement with Africa through established Regional Bodies combined with credit financing for Development now equal to a combined IMF and World Bank, China might just pull Africa out of our perpetual poverty in her quest own survival and development.

China beats the 'West' hands down thanks to the 'Third World' tag that they wear with pride alongside many underdeveloped countries. They have used this in such a clever manner that no single developing country looks at them the way Western countries are viewed by many 'Third World' countries. China is often seen as a bigger, well-endowed brother. The non-interference bla bla... is part of their dominate-and-control strategy and it is working very well for them. Unfortunately, self-interest is their Archille's heel as it would eventually turn the developing countries' citizens against their benevolent big brother. In this respect, their change in policy is certainly understandable but it is going to be interesting to see how well they balance the tricky issues of development partnership and security. Will they continue to turn a blind eye even in cases of despicable human rights abuses on the continent? Certainly, supporting despots [eg Equatorial Guinea's Teodoro Obiang Nguema Mbasogo], who abound in impoverished countries, can backfire.

@Mogen & ON,
Well it seems a deal for Africa is in the making, infrastructure, military & monetary ways..... of course to our favor in the short term. I'm more worried of the motives(favorable for now, painful later).
The westerners applied the same niceties them days & as soon they milked our cows dry, off they left us fighting. All those first world nations won't b was it not for Africa., they'd be struggling.
Chingchong could be in for the same...she's sharp, fast & well endowed with Yuan...,my fear is we are heading the same way we did a while back. Its common knowledge Africa holds 85% of virgin unexploited(minerals) & what away to achieve her super power status by 2025...(I'll offer citation later on her quest to be a super power by then) She'll Milk the african cow, gain ground, attain super power & feed her energy hungry economy & take off leaving a depleted Africans in abject poverty (fighting) may God forbid..
By the way, She's under pressure from the billions of citizens to create new jobs. Are you aware in Kampala they are doing the menial jobs? in restaurants etc! Flying Crane can attest to these; I've been there & seen. The other day we saw demos in cbd regarding hawker Chingchongs, it's a reality, they are in drones....here in Nanyuki I witnessed one roasting maize & he's so popular coz of the masses curiosity.,others hawking cheap ware's etc. I'm afraid once they settle en mass it won't be easy to ship them out & what a way of selling out our planet Africa. I'm not against their assistance, but we ought to be very careful, watchful & avoid the earlier mistakes by westerner.
I beg to be corrected....

Spartan wrote:Over here in Ug if you are found with guns and other army-issue materials, you forego your right to a trial in a civilian court. That's what we would do with Mr. Mwanamunadzi and his other armed MRC lot, more so that he is a former soldier. Otherwise you will be breathing the same air of freedom with him before long.

ole Nkarei wrote:@Mogen @spartan - that does also say something deep about "due process" in both our countries. Fact iw martial law MUST never supersede or be superimposed on civilian judicial processes unless the Integrity of the State is verily under siege, and even then for specific objectives and duration.

ole Nkarei wrote:@Mogen @spartan - that does also say something deep about "due process" in both our countries. Fact iw martial law MUST never supersede or be superimposed on civilian judicial processes unless the Integrity of the State is verily under siege, and even then for specific objectives and duration. Because Martial law essentially cannibalizes other less brute-force driven jurisdictions. The more intrusive and enduring the Martial law, the more does Civilian judicial processes get disembodied.

MRC is not anyway near a Threat to the integrity of State. It reached where it has due some lethargy on policing resultant from Gen. Ali's appearance at the Hague and driven by events in Zoomaliya. We need to constitutionalize our handling of it to separate the criminal component of it from the political expression of it. Which is now robustly under way. The "Luzira" way may create Martyrs of the brigands and a hydra-headed snake in the entire Country. Our Objective? MRC must metaphose into a Political Party and operate as such - then it will be buried under the weight of its mediocre agenda.

@Neutral Ground - fall in. Let's go hunt Alkebaab, man! Karibu.
.

ole Nkarei wrote:@Mogen @spartan - that does also say something deep about "due process" in both our countries. Fact iw martial law MUST never supersede or be superimposed on civilian judicial processes unless the Integrity of the State is verily under siege, and even then for specific objectives and duration. Because Martial law essentially cannibalizes other less brute-force driven jurisdictions. The more intrusive and enduring the Martial law, the more does Civilian judicial processes get disembodied.

MRC is not anyway near a Threat to the integrity of State. It reached where it has due some lethargy on policing resultant from Gen. Ali's appearance at the Hague and driven by events in Zoomaliya. We need to constitutionalize our handling of it to separate the criminal component of it from the political expression of it. Which is now robustly under way. The "Luzira" way may create Martyrs of the brigands and a hydra-headed snake in the entire Country. Our Objective? MRC must metaphose into a Political Party and operate as such - then it will be buried under the weight of its

@Neutral Ground - fall in. Let's go hunt Alkebaab, man! Karibu.

@ON much oblidged.Enjoying front

.

That guy should have been killed in '99. see how many lives we've lost so far.

I personally support the use of enhanced interrogation techniques.

Neutral Ground wrote:

ole Nkarei wrote:@Mogen @spartan - that does also say something deep about "due process" in both our countries. Fact iw martial law MUST never supersede or be superimposed on civilian judicial processes unless the Integrity of the State is verily under siege, and even then for specific objectives and duration. Because Martial law essentially cannibalizes other less brute-force driven jurisdictions. The more intrusive and enduring the Martial law, the more does Civilian judicial processes get disembodied.

MRC is not anyway near a Threat to the integrity of State. It reached where it has due some lethargy on policing resultant from Gen. Ali's appearance at the Hague and driven by events in Zoomaliya. We need to constitutionalize our handling of it to separate the criminal component of it from the political expression of it. Which is now robustly under way. The "Luzira" way may create Martyrs of the brigands and a hydra-headed snake in the entire Country. Our Objective? MRC must metaphose into a Political Party and operate as such - then it will be buried under the weight of its mediocre agenda.

@Neutral Ground - fall in. Let's go hunt Alkebaab, man! Karibu.

@ON much oblidged.Enjoying front row hospitality.

http://www.mod.go.ke/gallery/kismayu/IMG_1725.JPG

This Son above sure knows how to kit himself.
And,what piece is this ,the Negev SF?

.

Nesta wrote:

ole Nkarei wrote:@Mogen @spartan - that does also say something deep about "due process" in both our countries. Fact iw martial law MUST never supersede or be superimposed on civilian judicial processes unless the Integrity of the State is verily under siege, and even then for specific objectives and duration. Because Martial law essentially cannibalizes other less brute-force driven jurisdictions. The more intrusive and enduring the Martial law, the more does Civilian judicial processes get disembodied.

MRC is not anyway near a Threat to the integrity of State. It reached where it has due some lethargy on policing resultant from Gen. Ali's appearance at the Hague and driven by events in Zoomaliya. We need to constitutionalize our handling of it to separate the criminal component of it from the political expression of it. Which is now robustly under way. The "Luzira" way may create Martyrs of the brigands and a hydra-headed snake in the entire Country. Our Objective? MRC must metaphose into a Political Party and operate as such - then it will be buried under the weight of its mediocre agenda.

@Neutral Ground - fall in. Let's go hunt Alkebaab, man! Karibu.
.

Not that i support martial law for Armed civillians, but i detest "due process" when it is nothing but kenya's blood being shed. Was the arrest of Al-amin kimathi "due process?' Nope. Has it helped - it certainly has. What has our due process done all these years? If say someone close to you - a family member - has been kidnapped; will u champion due process? the right to a lawyer and the right to remain silent? The assassination of al-shabaab leaders is not due process - but it does help.

That guy should have been killed in '99. see how many lives we've lost so far. It is important that people who have the potential and desire to cause the state to be at a security risk, be dealt with before they shed any blood. I personally support the use of enhanced interrogation techniques.

jasiri wrote:

That guy should have been killed in '99. see how many lives we've lost so far.

99, i agree. As fr now not so...

I personally support the use of enhanced interrogation techniques.

Whatever you may choose to call it, torture doesn't work under such a scenario. This is a militia group with a political message. The battle against them needs to be won politically as much as it is to be won by force of arms. This group needs to be exposed as a vile and self-serving grouping with the interest of their so called 'wapwani' at the bottom of the to do list. If the gov't resorts to torture they would have engaged in a self defeating act with or without their knowledge.
1. They will alienate the residents who are a very critical part in this skirmish. Will u support a government that has killed/tortured your brother, cousin, father, or even raped your women?
2. They will give the MRC fodder for their propaganda...how is they resident of Msambweni trust a government which tortures and maims its citizens?
3. They will give the group free publicity...you all know this is what CNN, BBC and Al-Jazeera love. Imagine some anchor in a western capital saying '3 members of the MRC have been tortured to death by the Kenyan gov't. The group which wants to secede from the larger Kenya sighting gross injustices...' and u just proved them right by torturing em to death.
4. Your own support will turn on you. When the French deployed their crack paratroopers to Algeria the soldiers resorted to the same terrorism the FLN was using. As a result of this, the French themselves became divided over the intervention. Those that were anti-torture ultimately helped in the independence of Algeria. This is how the French lost Algeria to the F.L.N.
Torture seems like a quick fix option but in a political conflict like this one it doesn't work. Politicians should be at the fore front in this. I personally do not understand why Mr. Mwamunuadzi can not run for governor of the independent Kwale County then implement the rules he sees will help his people.

Vitruvian wrote:I'm assuming here that you've never been subjected to enhanced interrogation techniques and that ole Nkarei's discourse on due process is totally lost on you.

wrote:3 Shaababs captured alive in Husingo this afternoon in Billis Qoqani they were starved and ammo less

mogen wrote:

jasiri wrote:

That guy should have been killed in '99. see how many lives we've lost so far.

99, i agree. As fr now not so...

I personally support the use of enhanced interrogation techniques.

Whatever you may choose to call it, torture doesn't work under such a scenario. This is a militia group with a political message. The battle against them needs to be won politically as much as it is to be won by force of arms. This group needs to be exposed as a vile and self-serving grouping with the interest of their so called 'wapwani' at the bottom of the to do list. If the gov't resorts to torture they would have engaged in a self defeating act with or without their knowledge.
1. They will alienate the residents who are a very critical part in this skirmish. Will u support a government that has killed/tortured your brother, cousin, father, or even raped your women?
2. They will give the MRC fodder for their propaganda...how is they resident of Msambweni trust a government which tortures and maims its citizens?
3. They will give the group free publicity...you all know this is what CNN, BBC and Al-Jazeera love. Imagine some anchor in a western capital saying '3 members of the MRC have been tortured to death by the Kenyan gov't. The group which wants to secede from the larger Kenya sighting gross injustices...' and u just proved them right by torturing em to death.
4. Your own support will turn on you. When the French deployed their crack paratroopers to Algeria the soldiers resorted to the same terrorism the FLN was using. As a result of this, the French themselves became divided over the intervention. Those that were anti-torture ultimately helped in the independence of Algeria. This is how the French lost Algeria to the F.L.N.
Torture seems like a quick fix option but in a political conflict like this one it doesn't work. Politicians should be at the fore front in this. I personally do not understand why Mr. Mwamunuadzi can not run for governor of the independent Kwale County then implement the rules he sees will help his people.

@Jas
Agreed with you.
and can now confirm that MRC had no secessation goal whe it was founded. It appears to have been hijacked by forces with ill-intentions. Devolution has indeed given people the best opportunity to take control of their affairs and implement those good policies central Govt has ignored for decades. They chose violence because they have other motives and GoK should not play into their hands.
http://standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000068550&story_title=MRC-founders:-separation-was-not-part-of-original-agenda

Spartan wrote:

ole Nkarei wrote:@Mogen @spartan - that does also say something deep about "due process" in both our countries. Fact iw martial law MUST never supersede or be superimposed on civilian judicial processes unless the Integrity of the State is verily under siege, and even then for specific objectives and duration.

Martial law is a far ranging scenario, usually imposed when the state cannot function normally e.g when under attack or populations no longer recognise civil law like during a plague. That's not what I meant. I meant a Court Martial, which in Uganda is a court recognised by law like any other. Court martials provide the 'flexibility' that Guantanamo provides to Sammy. That's why Obama has failed to close it despite promising to do so four years ago.

Of course most crimes involving guns in Ug (99%) are tried in civilian courts. But if push comes to shove, you do what you have to do to protect the population, even if it's protecting them against themselves.

HokumA wrote:

Vitruvian wrote:I'm assuming here that you've never been subjected to enhanced interrogation techniques and that ole Nkarei's discourse on due process is totally lost on you.

Sometimes people have difficulties acknowledging the priceless value of common sense, in such cases it becomes our responsibility to remind them. Due process is good when we detect the existences of civil reasoning but absence of order. But when civil reasoning and order are confirmed to be missing then we send in the GSU and other enforcers who have the skillset required to underpin the importance of such. Just to be clear I am for absolute enforcement of order and good behavior preferably through due process but never ruling out enhanced interrogation with WBT been my preferred card in the deck.

Vitruvian wrote:

HokumA wrote:

Vitruvian wrote:I'm assuming here that you've never been subjected to enhanced interrogation techniques and that ole Nkarei's discourse on due process is totally lost on you.

Sometimes people have difficulties acknowledging the priceless value of common sense, in such cases it becomes our responsibility to remind them. Due process is good when we detect the existences of civil reasoning but absence of order. But when civil reasoning and order are confirmed to be missing then we send in the GSU and other enforcers who have the skillset required to underpin the importance of such. Just to be clear I am for absolute enforcement of order and good behavior preferably through due process but never ruling out enhanced interrogation with WBT been my preferred card in the deck.

That' why I love this forum - you learn something new every day.
Thanks, HokumA, for explaining when it's OK to use torture as a means of extracting information and when it's common sense for a state to sanction it. Those wackos at ICC and most of the rest of the world must be living in fantasy-land.
I don't know what I'd do without you guys.

1. Send 2,000 Men and Women (Sea, Air and land asset which cost billions to operate) to enforce civil reasoning and order among the Kebaabs and the greater lawless Somalia or.
   
2. Send 2,000 conflict resolution experts (we are shorthanded there) to try
   and explain to the Kebaabs that peace suits all of us (will cost
   nothing as compared to option 1 and might save more lives)