In defence of the gumboot?

Guest Thu Dec 08 2011, 11:14

Please Ugandan please stop giving excuses for UPDFs use of gumboots. You are talking to other Africans here who probably in one or more occasions have worn the unforgiving, stiff, awkward footwear that is the gumboot, and not the space age gumboot worn by duck hunters in the west but the African gumboot that seems to be made by the same material that makes tractor tires. You say the gumboot works well in wet muddy conditions but I refute such claims as I have worn gumboots in such conditions and this is how it goes;
1. You step in the mud and your boot gets stuck
2. You try to pull off but only your leg comes up because the gumboot is secure in the mud
3. After a few moments of trying you finally dislodge your gumboot and take the next step
4. You repeat step 1 thru 3
5. You finally get frustrated, take off the shoes and thank God you are not in a combat situation
6. Get home wash your feet wondering why you bought that silly footwear in the first place.

BTW Do UPDF guys wear socks under those gumboots? No Malice intended just a curious question

Guest Thu Dec 08 2011, 15:07

Spartan, my opinion regarding Uganda vs. Sudan is precisely as naive as I wish it to be; a reflection of your calculated naiveté regarding OLN. You cannot have your cake and eat it. You may, in one breath, attempt a heroic portrayal of UPDF's epic role in Sudan (or anywhere) and go all ding-dong when the KDF is involved, but then don't expect your opinion to matter. A few months ago I accused you of feigning ignorance. You're doing it again. You will have to decide which standard to follow. It can be either, as far as I'm concerned, as long as you're consistent.
I respect both rank and file equally for the sacrifices they're willing to make on my behalf. But lance corporals are just that for a reason. They have no business commanding armies or - God forbid - running countries. The former is the business of generals, the latter is the business of people who have only ever worn school uniforms but with the cojones to command the generals. Civilian rule may be science fiction to Uganda, Spartan, but I am unconvinced that you are not familiar with the concept.
As for AMISOM, well, let's await deployment. Somehow, I doubt it will be as "we're-in-this-thing-together" as that. Strategic bungling is more your things than ours.

Spartan wrote:@ Vitruvian, you are not so naive to think that Sudan was brought to the table only by diplomatic means, are you? Very many lives (including Ugandan ones) were lost before Gen. Al Bashir saw the writing on the wall. And we didn't join the fray because we just wanted an adventure. Sudan was bombing Northern Uganda towns, on top of supporting the LRA. It was not until Ug neutralised the Sudanese Airforce dominance (around January 1997, to be exact) that the war went into a stalemate and forced Bashir to the negotiating table.

You don't sign away three quarters of your oil wealth and almost half of your land mass because a 'diplomatic' neighbour has convinced you.

These references to lance corporals and generals, I will let them pass. Typical of people who've never put on a uniform, apart from a school uniform, of course. There are so many lance corporals sacrificing for all of us, including in the KDF.

Now if you will let me remind you, we've been overtaken by events. Kenya voted to join AMISOM. Now we will see the 'standards' that you set at very close quarters. I can't help but laugh here, KDF had nearly three months and all they did was to bring to my attention towns in South Somalia I would have died without hearing about. And 'surrounding' the ones that mattered for months 'due to heavy rains'. Very new standards indeed, agreed.

You had all the leeway to do as you pleased now you will have Chapter 7 to contend with.
Wakenya! Mnanishangaza kabisa.

Flying Crane Thu Dec 08 2011, 19:49

@Dcoy….You belong in Hollywood. Shocked

mJESHI mMOJA Thu Dec 08 2011, 20:16

Come on guys let the UPDF wear those Gumboots . kwani you guys don,t want the Kenyan treasury to earn extra revenue for B.A.T.A back to school offers??.

Guest Thu Dec 08 2011, 21:15

Flying Crane wrote:@Dcoy….You belong in Hollywood.

Have you nothing more sensible to say, Crane? By the way it is not the D-Coy anymore -

Spartan Sat Dec 17 2011, 16:55

Looks like we will now get news from the frontline, however biased, from this twitter feed

http://twitter.com/HSMPress

See what you make of it guys.

Olekoima Sat Dec 31 2011, 12:14

Here is a picture of the ATMOS 2000 self propelled 155mm howitzer some of which are in service with the UPDF having been acquired from Israel in 2005 according to Janes Defence weekly. A direct competitor is the Nora B-52 SP 155mm howitzer in service with the KDF. I will post its picture below. Nice machines these are.

Olekoima Sat Dec 31 2011, 12:23

Sierra Kilo Wed Jan 18 2012, 16:23

I dont know if there has ever been a C in C in East Africa that is this free with his comrades Uganda Peoples Defence Force (UPDF), - Page 7 Nyama_10

mwepesi Fri Jan 20 2012, 13:02

Sierra Kilo wrote:I dont know if there has ever been a C in C in East Africa that is this free with his comrades

Nice pic though, I give him a Thumbs up, but are those soldiers???????? Very Happy

anyway as the saying goes once an ogre always an ogre (No offence intended here) he was a guerilla and will always wanna relive those good old days.

Ole Sidai Sat Jan 21 2012, 20:08

mwepesi wrote:
Sierra Kilo wrote:I dont know if there has ever been a C in C in East Africa that is this free with his comrades

Nice pic though, I give him a Thumbs up, but are those soldiers???????? anyway as the saying goes once an ogre always an ogre (No offence intended here) he was a guerilla and will always wanna relive those good old days.

Uganda Peoples Defence Force (UPDF), - Page 7 Museveni-in-mbale

I found this picture at some African Leadership Section of a Ivy League College Library. Rumour is that he will be invited for some talk in the near future. Si kwa ubaya but after conquiring everything,leaders should know when to down "Rwitabagomi" vacate and let "mustard seeds" grow. I guess the Kremlin guy is a student of hawa wazeeee.

Kobooz Thu Jan 26 2012, 18:57

Sierra Kilo wrote:I dont know if there has ever been a C in C in East Africa that is this free with his comrades

But feeds them on beans!

Kobooz Mon Jan 30 2012, 14:50

Spartan, vitruvian, crane. Please help me understand this! how does Uganda Land Forces get involved in tracking fake money syndicates? I thought that would be done by either CID, Civil Intelligence or Anti fraud unit. How can the Ugandan army have all the time even to track phone calls for non-military crime? Doesn't it also demorolise the other mentioned units? I find it bizzare and too off the mark!!

Guest Mon Jan 30 2012, 15:06

I'm not sure I'm qualified to answer this question.

Kobooz wrote:Spartan, vitruvian, crane. Please help me understand this! how does Uganda Land Forces get involved in tracking fake money syndicates? I thought that would be done by either CID, Civil Intelligence or Anti fraud unit. How can the Ugandan army have all the time even to track phone calls for non-military crime? Doesn't it also demorolise the other mentioned units? I find it bizzare and too off the mark!!

Spartan Thu Feb 16 2012, 12:02

Ole Sidai wrote:

I found this picture at some African Leadership Section of a Ivy League College Library. Rumour is that he will be invited for some talk in the near future. Si kwa ubaya but after conquiring everything,leaders should know when to down "Rwitabagomi" vacate and let "mustard seeds" grow. I guess the Kremlin guy is a student of hawa wazeeee.

@ole Sidai, I notice youur avatar is also holding a gun, and shooting. But no big deal there. I will just say that area has a history of about 5 insurrections (on the Uganda side of the Elgon alone). That Mzee with a gun is not known to sit and cower and depend on his bodyguards alone. He likes to 'participate' in his protection.

Uganda now, is like Kenya in Moi's era (only that we have no Nyayo house and the activities that took place there). Kenya experienced its best economic growth and expansion spat during Moi's time. The times may not have been perfect but they laid a solid foundation for Kenya. That's why you can now talk of Vision 2030 and the like. I like to think that Uganda now is experiencing what Kenya did during the Moi years.

Kenyans may not know Uganda as much as Ugandans know Kenya (largely due to the direction of trade) but someone has put together a true representation of what Uganda looks like (and also what is planned, by the private sector alone, BTW) in these threads;

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1029233&page=20

http://www.capitasymonds.co.uk/news__events/latest_news/capita_symonds_reveals_kampala.aspx

That confidence people have shown by bringing all those FDI inflows to invest here should tell you something. I could have been worse, but can only get better.

Ole Sidai Thu Feb 16 2012, 19:17

Kenyans may not know Uganda as much as Ugandans know Kenya (largely due to the direction of trade) but someone has put together a true representation of what Uganda looks like (and also what is planned, by the private sector alone, BTW) in these threads;

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1029233&page=20

http://www.capitasymonds.co.uk/news__events/latest_news/capita_symonds_reveals

@Spartan. I totally agree with you at the comparison of current political level with Ke under M01. The difference is that the society is much more enlightened in many ways but most notable is the media. In no way can M7 get to the heights achieved by M01 at the time. No Nyayo house or Nyati to the equivalent can happen either at yours or anywhere else in the modern society. Ocampos will be salivating at the very thought of such ideas. Yes,sinister stuff might be happening underground but possibly at very lower levels....

The fact is Ug has achieved loads of development in all sectors under M7. But fellas should learn when to relinguish power and let younger generation tee up. How else can they measure leadership?

I personally thank you,for the links. I will keep watch. You think kenyans do not know that beautiful red soil hilly country? My brother,some of us are the so called foreign investors! Fort Portal is my choice with upcoming hotel and apartment stuff (that Kings castle/palace on the Hill-overlooking Ruwenzori is a spot on). I hope you guys fix Kyenjonjo-Ft Portal highway into dual and that area will explode with skyrises to compete with Ruwenzoris. EA is our motherland no matter what and where,we will always return. We are not scared of AS......the region hardware is precisely taking care of that. I hope your guys will capture AFGOYE today and secure that crazy town. Please keep us posted,bro. It is time peace is restored and civilization flourishes in that lost world.

Sierra Kilo Fri Feb 17 2012, 15:02

http://www.monitor.co.ug/OpEd/Commentary/-/689364/1328330/-/128wjoiz/-/index.html While i may not agree with everything that this writer puts down, i will concur with him that the UPDF has been the stabilising factor for Mog and other players coming in to the fray need to learn from them. The Ugandans seem to have smarted the debacle that befell the EPDF and USMC. The key factor here is the somali populace!!

Spartan Sat Feb 18 2012, 11:48

Ole Sidai wrote:like a Maj Gen found dead at some GF room.....who clearly knows such events thereof?

The fact is Ug has achieved loads of development in all sectors under M7. But fellas should learn when to relinquish power and let younger generation tee up. How else can they measure leadership?

@ole Sidai, Uganda has many former senior army officers, many of whom do not agree with the government. Some are in the opposition, and have rebelled before then they were left alone for the sake of national cohesion, but they are alive and doing well. Why you would want to create theories and conspiracies about the circumstances under which he died defeats my understanding. We Ugandans accepted and rued the pitiful death of such a valiant commander and leanrt whatever lessons we could from it. There are countries where former generals always end up in exile and we all know Uganda is none of them.

You will realise most people on this forum are reluctant to discuss politics, for obvious reasons. Our elections may not be perfect (whose is, anyway?) but they are a reflection of the will of Ugandans. The job of a soldier or any other state functionary is to serve the government of the day (and hope the population will always vote the right person at the ballot). Period.

Ole Sidai Sat Feb 18 2012, 16:36

The job of a soldier or any other state functionary is to serve the government of the day (and hope the population will always vote the right person at the ballot). Period.[/quote]

My brother,Spartan. Facts are facts and as such it is true the former guys live side by side with the current,both enjoying liberty and freedom strongly fought for. It was painful to everyone to lose such a talent especially the circumstances. I was in the region then and villagers on nile lager had all theories and theorems on that issue. Spot on, about the sancrosact job of a soldier,no matter political leadership. It is the pillar without which the house cannot hold. So,any sitreps on Afgoye? We are all eager to see this monister dealt with to where it belongs before it is stale. There is momentum from all corners of the world now except from "African scholars and analyst".

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GuLrXJz2Js. Wonderful way to open up this soon to be success story into the world. He may not be poetic speaker but his story is what the world need to know. Please post more success from liberated areas.

Guest Mon Feb 20 2012, 23:47

There have been recent reports (2011) that 31 T-90S tanks are included in the deal for Su-30 aircraft from Russia. The tanks are reported to be delivered already in 2011, possibly as early as April 2011.
However, while I've seen the Su-30 in Uganda, I haven't seen any picture of the T-90 there, nor of such tanks delivered via Tanzania or Kenya. Has anyone actually seen a good report on the T-90 or better, pictures?

tempest Tue Feb 21 2012, 00:15

Foef wrote:There have been recent reports (2011) that 31 T-90S tanks are included in the deal for Su-30 aircraft from Russia. The tanks are reported to be delivered already in 2011, possibly as early as April 2011.
However, while I've seen the Su-30 in Uganda, I haven't seen any picture of the T-90 there, nor of such tanks delivered via Tanzania or Kenya. Has anyone actually seen a good report on the T-90 or better, pictures?

Seems you are correct: http://www.army-technology.com/news/newsrussia-to-supply-t-90-tanks-to-algeria-turkmenistan/

As of 2011, 436 T-90A and 266 T-90s tanks were in service with the Russian Ground Forces and Naval Infantry. Russia has supplied the tanks to India, Uganda and Kazakhstan and is also discussing the sale of the T-90s with several potential customers including Saudi Arabia, Syria, Cyprus, Libya and Lebanon.

Apparently 100 machines : http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product889.html Good going UPDF!

Olekoima Tue Feb 21 2012, 16:59

Uganda Peoples Defence Force (UPDF), - Page 7 T-90S-001

T-90. 100 units of these for Uganda? Wow.

Guest Tue Feb 21 2012, 18:07

Sources seem quite clear on an order for 31, under the same deal as the Su-30. One source says for the Presidential Guard Brigade.
But are there any actually delivered?

Ole Sidai Tue Feb 21 2012, 18:12

Wonderful firepower and undisputable mobility. Necessity for armourment can sometimes overlook tactical and terrain considerations. From decade plus of toying with these monisters; I do not see proper utilization of 100 pieces of such beasts either at the Western swampy forest, East and South of that beautiful densely populated wonderful Ug. Yes...little bit to the North....Kitgum,Arua,Pakwachi regions is tankable. How about 50 of such units and diversify rest of resources into Helis (mi-171,28,17) with capability for vertical insertion (team 6 tyle) ops? I think this can cause deeper havoc to Kony and future Kony.

Btw,the battles btn Updf/Rdf in Eastern Drc(armor vulnerability) proved a point.

Again in the wider threat analysis,SU-30 was a good idea considering radical GOS pulling UG into GOSS....pulling Misri and stuff.

What do you think guys....Crane,Tempest,ON and others? It is just an opinion.....nothing of policy. The cat is already out the bag.

Olekoima Tue Feb 21 2012, 18:20

Foef wrote:Sources seem quite clear on an order for 31, under the same deal as the Su-30. One source says for the Presidential Guard Brigade.
But are there any actually delivered?

It is most likely that a few have already come in. Read the above link carefully again. However these seem to be the tanks that were already in service with the Russian army. They are not likely to be new ones.

tempest Tue Feb 21 2012, 21:56

Ole Sidai wrote:Btw,the battles btn Updf/Rdf in Eastern Drc(armor vulnerability) proved a point.

Again in the wider threat analysis,SU-30 was a good idea considering radical GOS pulling UG into GOSS....pulling Misri and stuff.
What do you think guys....Crane,Tempest,ON and others? It is just an opinion.....nothing of policy. The cat is already out the bag.

Do we know how many tanks were destroyed in the RPF v UPDF battles? I have always thought regular armies with MANPATS can wreck havoc especially in dense areas (forests or urban). I understand that by the time James Kabare and his troops reached Kinshasa for the major fights, they had lost all their armour to Zimbabwean units in ambushes on the march to their main objective. Russian tanks suffered in Chechnya. There is a youtube file if several Georgian tanks lost in quick succession to Russian infantry unit.

Yes they are more vulnerable in certain terrain. I have looked at anti-tank weapons in the region before or tank gun performance - and I can see why 2km killing range is adequate as the terrain has obstacles that make shot beyond that very rare. Given that at 400-800m, your cheap anti tank rockets like Carl Gustav because very effective and ATGWs many not be a priority.

With all that said, the tactics employed by either side will matter more.

I am trying to find a SANDF document with their requirements. IIRC they expected engagement ranges of upto 800m as governed by terrain. South Africa is mostly savana. On the other hand, Botswana in in Wikileaks asking the USA for HOT missiles. I say it is reasonable since Botswana has a lot of desert or semi-desert. Engagement at over longer ranges is possible, and then long range then requires guidence for accuracy.

Olekoima Wed Mar 14 2012, 13:33

Here are some serious, careless and dangerous allegations by the Sudanese government. Is Bashir's regime really serious? I think they are merely sulking because of loss of oil revenue.

http://www.newvision.co.ug/news/629608-uganda-rubbishes-sudan-rebel-claims.html

jasiri Wed Mar 14 2012, 17:15

http://www.shadowspear.com/special-operations-news/105944-force-recon-trains-ugandans-to-face-al-shabaab-lra.htmlhttp://www.dvidshub.net/news/85169/small-footprint-high-payoff-us-marine-team-trains-ugandan-forces-face-al-shabaab-lra#.T2CkDWpWWlA

hehehe Sammy the Saviour

tempest Tue Mar 20 2012, 01:49

... ... not bad by any measure

Uganda Peoples Defence Force (UPDF), - Page 7 OlUvB

Olekoima Tue Mar 20 2012, 07:43

tempest wrote:... ... not bad by any measure

Here we see the T-90s for UPDF. This deal is real for sure. @ Tempest, is this a link from the UN register of arms transfers?

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