Kenya Defence Force

Spartan wrote:

Olekoima wrote:Tz overtaking Kenya in 7-10 years? Where do you leave UG with all her oil resources. Aren't they going to come up too? What if Kenya strikes oil as is likely to be the case? I highly doubt if Tz will come any close to Kenya. My bet is perhaps in UG. They are not only aggressive, but willing to try things as well. Tz despite her massive natural resources has continued to remain behind with no will to improve. I don't see this changing in the near future unless they drastically overhaul their approach and attitude towards things and stop lamenting that Kenya is out to steal from them.

Sorry for alarming some of you with the 7 - 10 year projection. I think it was 2030 or thereabouts, it's in this article;

http://thecitizen.co.tz/news/4-national-news/17054-tz-economy-to-surpass-kenya-forecast-shows.html

For y'all new forum members, I am Ugandan. We have no issues with Kenyans. The Kenyans who've been to Uganda usually like the welcome we give them (and the Matooke, I must add). Actually, I would rather the likes of UCHUMI and TUSKY dotted Uganda than, say Shoprite or McDonald's that repatriate their profits thousands of miles from Uganda.

That said, Uganda's oil is too little to change the dynamics of the region. Granted, the Tanzanians are slow and at times xenophobic, but they stand the best chance to compete for economic bragging rights.

The term 'bigger economy' is just that, a term. Sudan's economy before the secession of the South was at $60bn compared to Kenya's $32bn and Uganda's $17bn. The biggest percentage of these figures is oil infrastructure (Refineries, pipelines etc). But is life in Sudan better than in Uganda or Kenya? Therefore as long as investors bring mining infrastructure to Tz, their economy will continue to grow.

I don't know about you, but I believe what's good for Kenya, or Tanzania for that matter, is good for Ug.

@ Vitruvian, the SIN site, I don't take it very seriously. Usually such sites are meant for Western consumption. This is what usually happens: A western writer or journalist decides that the best way to climb or be taken seriously is by writing from areas where the west has little knowledge, say Africa. He spews a lot of gabaage that is taken in hook, line and sinker by western readers. I am sure in his credentials you'll find "Expert on African Military and Intelligence Matter" with links to SIN for the doubters. Just let him be.

ole Nkarei wrote:

Sierra Kilo wrote:

Enjoy your R & R Sierra Kilo, as long as it last. Be there too soon I hope. Now, don't go shouting from the Tree-tops about this, you might get the wolves turning this way, man!! See, we got the busy-body NGO shouting hoarse about ICC that they see nothing else, and the Brits seem to have redirected from Kenya Regime-Change to expansive economic possibilities in a pacified Somalia - they want a piece of it too. So, now is as good a time as any to get some Clothes on KDF, eh? And it isn't that the Air Transport has been neglected, but that there is just so many cows and goats to sell, and we must do this from a priority-listing. The immediate thing was to re-define front-line groups away from large-standing formations, together with whatever else would keep these groups active and effective. Soon enough you will see some movement on Air-Transport too - how about the sweet smell of some hand-me-downs C-130s from Israel hot already!!).

@Azkahia -The CASA 235 / 295 was an purchase-probe, doubtful it getting into field-trials at this juncture.

@Nesta - no truth to that rumor, bro. What is true is that elaborate efforts by many arms of GoK have been expended over the years to mask the true position of Hydrocarbons in Kenya to avoid expected debilitating conflicts between disparate ethnic groupings over these natural resources - we needed first of all either a concrete social contract between us (constitutional) or greater integration which is a longer-term assumption.

@Mwaura - I note you have caught onto the essential differentiation the defines the combat roles of the Mi-28 and the KA52 - crew protection and equipment survive-ability. For the Matrix we envisage into the next five years or so, the KA52 is abit over the table. Probably later when the Oils is flowing from Juba to Lamu and points in between.

@Spartan - it is this audacity of Kenyans to imagine beyond what you call glamorous is probably what sets Kenyans apart in this Kenyana. But call it Ugandana, Congo, Kenyana, whatever, as long as we all recognise this is the field we must all live and survive in as one fist in this increasingly hostile world.

See you'all soon!!

@one man army
i disagree that the kdf naval vessel coming from Spain s the most advanced yet
the
reason being that this ship though very expensive because of dubious
deals done by major general Mwathethe, the ship has no weapons systems
on board at all.NOTHING.YOU CAN SEE even on the pictures no forward
deck gun at all.. .a basic thing on a naval vessel.
http://www.triton.co.za/triton-featured-projects/jasiri-1.jpg
so this ship does not add anything of value to kdf current naval defensive or offensive capabilities.
it is just designed as an oceanographer..mainly for mapping and exploratory purposes.
Kenya
is hoping to use the ship to map out and police the larger expanded
economic exclusion zone that kenya government is claiming from the
Indian ocean.
here is a copy of the original contract entered by murungaru,mwiraria,kyungu..and others total costs more than 4billion.
http://www.marsgroupkenya.org/pdfs/june_07/Kenya_Navy_Jasiri_Mombasa.pdf
IN
OTHER WORDS it is just an exotic fishing vessel...which has coasted
more than twice the next two best armed Kenyan vessels combined.it is a
scandal and a shame.

ole Nkarei wrote:

Analyst wrote:Hard copy of the Star finally confirms that KDF has the MI-18 Attack helicopters and the BDRM reconnaissance vehicles.

Star quotes KDF officials and also quotes Strategic Intelligence News, our nemesis.

The Star also tells away about the possible acquisition of the F-15 fighter aircraft's for the KDF airforce..

The star quotes senior KDF officials as its sources of the story.

SIN committed no SIN......He is forgiven i assume and hopefully respected as a source of reliable intelligence news...

Come on, Analyst! You seriously suggest newspaper reports as credible source of Intel? From some bored desk-riding scribe that scrolls through sites such as this to glean material to look hot with his Editor? All that stuff on Star has been discussed to death here and there for months - nothing new there! Spartan, Vitruvian so much as point out to you, bro. And quoting SIN or some unknown ''KDF officials'' does not buy credibility with anyone but the most gullible civilian! For an Analyst of your obvious calibre, I cannot credit to you this position you are pushing, mate!! I repeat - SIN is a usable site but it certainly is not Moses writing the Bible. Lets move on!!

Nesta - the Kenyana Concept may take decades to completely integrate National Pyches of the region. Lets be happy with first a shared Security Shield, Open economic and demographic borders, singular political voice internationally, etc. I think Spartan is dead right the way he captures this gist.

Analyst wrote:

Ouch!!

Nkarei broke my kneecap..!!

Spartan wrote:
Sorry for alarming some of you with the 7 - 10 year projection. I think it was 2030 or thereabouts, it's in this article;

http://thecitizen.co.tz/news/4-national-news/17054-tz-economy-to-surpass-kenya-forecast-shows.html

@ Vitruvian, the SIN site, I don't take it very seriously. Usually such sites are meant for Western consumption. This is what usually happens: A western writer or journalist decides that the best way to climb or be taken seriously is by writing from areas where the west has little knowledge, say Africa. He spews a lot of gabaage that is taken in hook, line and sinker by western readers. I am sure in his credentials you'll find "Expert on African Military and Intelligence Matter" with links to SIN for the doubters. Just let him be.

mekatilili wrote:
Congratulations on your newly found sense of 'oneness' with Kenyans dear Spartan.

ole Nkarei wrote:

Analyst wrote:

Ouch!!

Nkarei broke my kneecap..!!

Never my intention, bro. Your input is reasoned and valued by all.

@Mwaura - no heavies from the Brits since Moi left office. Long ten years, huge drought. And it ain't just a pricing, but also reliability / survive-ability and inter-operability of their heavies, from a growing economy point of view. But not so on SF kiting -our SOC mirroring the Brits more than Sammy. These SAW toys from the Brits:

1. The Minimi is a 5.56x45mm light machine-fed from a 200 round ammo box rate of fire at 700-1000 rounds-per-minute at a range up to 800 meters. For the sort of dance in Somalia, weapon of choice with a great many Deltas, and preferred by some Rangers. Just love this babe!

2. The L7A2 GPMG, or 'GIMPY', is a 7.62x61mm belt-fed general purpose machine gun mounted on vehicles, boats and in fixed positions. When mounted on a tripod, with C2 optical sight added and with stock removed, the GPMG is used in 'sustained fire' (SF) mode. In SF mode, the GPMG, with a 2-man crew, lays down 750 rounds-per-minute at ranges up to 1800 meters and can engage targets not in direct line of sight. The Strike-Force Rangers mount 2 GPMGs on an their open land-cruiser, one GPMG on the Recce Humvees, while the Deltas have 3 GPMGs per vehicle - just try and get near them, by gawd!! The 'beaten zone' suppressed by multiple GPMGs is phenomenal.

3. SA80a2 Assault Rifle modified by Heckler & Koch from the earlier the SA80 which the Brits have been trying to fob off to KDF and which they replaced due to huge problems - magazines would sometimes drops out without warning. The weapon was also prone to jamming, some plastic components of the gun melt or break, the safety catches fails in the heat, it is 1kg heavier than comparable AR-15 5.56mm assault rifles. Me, I don’t like even this tool one bit.


Honestly, I don't envisage a stampede back to the Brits on heavies anytime soon!!

A British corruption investigation into the sale of frigates to
Romania brought further controversy yesterday, when a Romanian admiral
alleged his impoverished country had paid three times more than
necessary.
The price was £116m, but Victor Blidea, who at the
time was chief of the Romanian naval operations command which took
delivery of the two British ships, said the Dutch navy had been
offering similar surplus frigates, better-equipped and still in active
service, for £40m. He told the Guardian in Bucharest: "We had
information at the time about Dutch frigates on sale offered at £20m
apiece. They were 'hot' ships, ships on duty, and not second-hand
ships. The British frigates are not bad, but they don't fit in the
[Romanian] navy's budget. Their maintenance is too costly. We also have
to equip them properly, which is again lots of money."

MWAURA wrote:

ole Nkarei wrote:

Analyst wrote:

Ouch!!

Nkarei broke my kneecap..!!

Never my intention, bro. Your input is reasoned and valued by all.

@Mwaura - no heavies from the Brits since Moi left office. Long ten years, huge drought. And it ain't just a pricing, but also reliability / survive-ability and inter-operability of their heavies, from a growing economy point of view. But not so on SF kiting -our SOC mirroring the Brits more than Sammy. These SAW toys from the Brits:

1. The Minimi is a 5.56x45mm light machine-fed from a 200 round ammo box rate of fire at 700-1000 rounds-per-minute at a range up to 800 meters. For the sort of dance in Somalia, weapon of choice with a great many Deltas, and preferred by some Rangers. Just love this babe!

2. The L7A2 GPMG, or 'GIMPY', is a 7.62x61mm belt-fed general purpose machine gun mounted on vehicles, boats and in fixed positions. When mounted on a tripod, with C2 optical sight added and with stock removed, the GPMG is used in 'sustained fire' (SF) mode. In SF mode, the GPMG, with a 2-man crew, lays down 750 rounds-per-minute at ranges up to 1800 meters and can engage targets not in direct line of sight. The Strike-Force Rangers mount 2 GPMGs on an their open land-cruiser, one GPMG on the Recce Humvees, while the Deltas have 3 GPMGs per vehicle - just try and get near them, by gawd!! The 'beaten zone' suppressed by multiple GPMGs is phenomenal.

3. SA80a2 Assault Rifle modified by Heckler & Koch from the earlier the SA80 which the Brits have been trying to fob off to KDF and which they replaced due to huge problems - magazines would sometimes drops out without warning. The weapon was also prone to jamming, some plastic components of the gun melt or break, the safety catches fails in the heat, it is 1kg heavier than comparable AR-15 5.56mm assault rifles. Me, I don’t like even this tool one bit.


Honestly, I don't envisage a stampede back to the Brits on heavies anytime soon!!

For me the tactically unbeatable weapon/vehicle combo is the royal marine landrover with a rear .50 BMG and a forward gimpy. Its comforting knowing that at any one time you have a 3000 m killing range! I've seen the ultimate tactical jeep from Jordan ,a landcruiser which has a .50 BMG in the rear just ahead of a single barrel 120 automatic mortar, (a revolving turntable at the base plate carries the rounds) with a forward gimpy.
Btw,do you think we should beef up our armour with wheeled anti armour AFVs instead of the T 72s? Yes,I'm aware of the tracked vs wheeled debate but the S.Africans did very well with their 90 mm Ratels in Angola. With our topography and threat environment I was specifically thinking of 8 by 8 105 mm AFVs like the Fench Vextra or Austrian Pandur.
Counter sniper ,here's a dailymail report on a typical case of standard Brit arms sale procedures:

A British corruption investigation into the sale of frigates to
Romania brought further controversy yesterday, when a Romanian admiral
alleged his impoverished country had paid three times more than
necessary.
The price was £116m, but Victor Blidea, who at the
time was chief of the Romanian naval operations command which took
delivery of the two British ships, said the Dutch navy had been
offering similar surplus frigates, better-equipped and still in active
service, for £40m. He told the Guardian in Bucharest: "We had
information at the time about Dutch frigates on sale offered at £20m
apiece. They were 'hot' ships, ships on duty, and not second-hand
ships. The British frigates are not bad, but they don't fit in the
[Romanian] navy's budget. Their maintenance is too costly. We also have
to equip them properly, which is again lots of money."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2006/jun/13/armstrade.bae
So when you see their agents hystericallly barking accusations and pointing fingers,pause for thought. I beleive in the jasiri case their tender was just too high-failing to realise their day was over and accepting the situation they instigated the likes of Githongo and Mati to initiate reactions up to and including regime change.

mwepesi wrote:Found this clip on you tube and I was like..........................lol!! what the heck is this shallow minded dude talking about, especially by this David Anderson from time 4:15 when he dismisses KDF guess he is kinda pushing the plight of refugees???.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9B-AvoLNbvc

a small bio about this guy and contacts can be found at this link

http://www.worldwhoswho.com/public/views/entry.html?id=sl2174394

Note:

In his intro, he talks about giving the same lecture about KDF in som to US State Dept

Mwepesi,a million thanks for fishing such links. These NGOs are fraundsters and self seekers.

In 1992,my Platoon provided security to set up Dhaghaley and Ifo refugee camps. A week later,my resupply trucks were ambushed at Hega dam near the world famous refugee camp. Needless to say that the attackers dispersed back to the refugee camp. We lost several police officers in subsequent attacks(Hega Dam ambushes of the 1992-93) until it was finally decided to enter Hagadera refugee camp,search for arms and with the help of police,make arrests. Even after recovering armouries inside refugee camps,these NGOs condemned us! They didn't care but when their cruisers got hijacked and staff kidnapped and rapped,it was Kenyas security problem!

At present, I listen to these "African studies" nerds give lectures from all over the World. American researchers are less biased(center leaning) than Scandinavians and the worst are Brits! I have listened to David Anderson couple of times via skype and will unearth his recent similar speech in Australia in Dec.

One issue this guy has never addressed is the influx/impact of foreign fighters into Somalia before KDF invasion. Does he really care if these Britons,Americans and other terror individuals retuned back to blow up London and other cities?

At least, in my view, we have learned some lessons from Iraq and
Afghanistan. I strongly opposed both those ventures, because I believe
they were badly planned and because they involved western troops on the
ground. Thank God we have learned the lessons and British coffins are
not returning through Wootton Bassett from Somalia. We are, however,
engaged and not a great deal has been said about this so far. We are,
apparently, training, equipping and supporting Kenyan and other African
Union troops. I am told that British Army officers can often be seen in
Nairobi doing that. Not a great deal is disclosed about it by our
Government—perhaps that is right and it should be under the radar—but I
think that Parliament, which pays for it, needs to know what is
happening on behalf of our taxpayers.

Nesta wrote:

Mr. Leigh, British MP

Nesta wrote:@Ole Nkarei, I knew the British MP was just reassuring himself and the people who believe him. They were discussing about the upcoming conference in Somalia. Apparantley, the brits have said they won't recognize Somaliland until its first recognized by Africa.

BTW, about the Brits in Kenya, i usually see them around. Are they stationed in Kenya like a military base (strategic interest?) or are they just here so that they can train their troops? And the much-talked about training that they do in Marsabit, do they do it for all their troops (recruits?) or is it some training that is given to people of a certain rank?

ole Nkarei wrote:

Nesta wrote:@Ole Nkarei, I knew the British MP was just reassuring himself and the people who believe him. They were discussing about the upcoming conference in Somalia. Apparantley, the brits have said they won't recognize Somaliland until its first recognized by Africa.

BTW, about the Brits in Kenya, i usually see them around. Are they stationed in Kenya like a military base (strategic interest?) or are they just here so that they can train their troops? And the much-talked about training that they do in Marsabit, do they do it for all their troops (recruits?) or is it some training that is given to people of a certain rank?

The Brits come to the Motherland for three reasons, (a) to expose their first-response troops to actual tropical and semi-desert conditions, (b) cross-training with our SOC Units - Deltas, CDU, SBS, and (c) to some very minor extent at the Command Schools. But for SOC, there is generally little interface – we keep to ourselves, and they keep to themselves. Talk about hoonkies running around in Lanet, Eldoret, Isiolo, Manda is simply hallucinatory. The Brits have been spotted in Nairobi streets for over seventy years. There are no Military Bases for the Brit or anyone else in Kenya.

For purely strategic economic reasons, the Brits are fighting to recover lost momentum that have the seen the Turks, Qatar and Chinese make serious inroads in Somalia and the AU attitude towards the Somalian Conflict. It is in this context that one should see the London Conference and all this BS from Anderson and a multiplicity of the so-called ‘’African Experts’’ who are essentially agents of MI6 and the foreign office. Flowing from it too, anticipate an reactivation of their Sleeper Third Force of British-assimilated Somalia back into the Somalia Public life and NGO all over this part of the world – such as the present Mayor of Mogadishu!

countersniper wrote:
you are spot on mostly about the Brits in Kenya but there are some corrections.
but wait a minute i was under the impression the BRITS have been given a small base in side a corner of KAHAWA Garrison from where they run the activities in Kenya under the name "British army training liaison staff Kenya" ie BATLASK.
THEY have a field office in isiolo and archers post.
THEY USE THESE to a acclimatize their troops for desert and semi desert conditions before shipping them out to IRAQ or Afghanistan and at every one time there are usually about 1000 t0 1200 men undergoing this training.
At the moment there are around 850 British troops training in Kenya.
BTW
my beef with these guys is why they waited for 22 years to come into Somalia only after kdf has done the heavy lifting.

ALSO
BWANA NKAREI..IS IT TRUE THAT the reason KDF has not taken kismayu is because THE CinC has caved to pressure and has called a halt to this action to be scaled back?that would be a huge mistake almost comparable to George bush senior calling for a halt to the Baghdad assault in the first gulf war..causing Saddam to survive another 13 years.
i understand from other sources and intell that kdf top brass are not happy about this delay to get orders from kibaki to capture this important town.
i think kdf must move over in before ALQUIDA inspired brigands come flooding in and also kdf must secure all airfields and shoot down any unknown aircraft operating in the south of Somalia without authority from kdf.

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