Kenya Defence Force

vince wrote:A simple flip of the coin and you won't tell the difference between AS and TFG.

http://www.somaliareport.com/index.php/post/2823/TFG_Executes_Government_Soldier__

Many countries have on their books laws that allow the army execute members of its own. In some cases, like on the frontline, your case will not even be heard at base. A summary court martial will sit and within four hours your goose is cooked. I don't know about Ke, but Tz, Rwanda and Uganda have similar laws. I would expect nothing less if I killed another soldier.

That would have been despicable if it were happening to a civilian. The conduct and discipline of soldiers is supposed to be better than that of civilians because of their training, that's why justice for them is swift and often brutal.

But I will cut you some slack. Soldeirs are drawn from the wider society. Do not expect angels when the soldiers have been drawn from a generation that has seen only violence and has not known any authority apart from that of the gun.

vince wrote:A simple flip of the coin and you won't tell the difference between AS and TFG.

http://www.somaliareport.com/index.php/post/2823/TFG_Executes_Government_Soldier__

You wanted him to be forgiven/pardoned after committing MURDER ONE?

@cyclone in your posted photo of our beloved Jasiri girl our insignia is missing! the crew is also foreign weren't these the days of test sail?

cylon wrote:The KNS JASIRI on its way home.


A mi-171 at the coast


Could this be a kenyan f-16 it has the insignia on the wings


So these are KDF elusive c-130's i got these images on google


A lone ranger awaiting orders to go lay waste some alshabab


A KDF helicopter being shipped to who knows where.

Kobooz wrote:@cyclone in your posted photo of our beloved Jasiri girl our insignia is missing! the crew is also foreign weren't these the days of test sail?

cylon wrote:The KNS JASIRI on its way home.


A mi-171 at the coast


Could this be a kenyan f-16 it has the insignia on the wings


So these are KDF elusive c-130's i got these images on google


A lone ranger awaiting orders to go lay waste some alshabab


A KDF helicopter being shipped to who knows where.

i got the kns jasiri picture from janesdefense the ship should be here in the next few months or weeks

fusebox wrote:@cylon Maybe you should ask the analyst for some "help"

We live in the internet age information is everywhere i will search it up myself but thank you for the suggestion
and spartan thanks for that nifty image reverse website

This bird is very interesting.
The Swedes seem to have planned for every outcome of war.
They required the gripen to be capable of operating off public roads and easily serviceable by very small crews just incase their airbases were rendered inoperable or overrun, spawning a GUERRILLA AIR FORCE!

Manze this bird can be used just like a car.

fusebox wrote:This bird is very interesting.
The Swedes seem to have planned for every outcome of war.
They required the gripen to be capable of operating off public roads and easily serviceable by very small crews just incase their airbases were rendered inoperable or overrun, spawning a GUERRILLA AIR FORCE!

Manze this bird can be used just like a car.

THose birds would work very well in an african enviroment where they would be flown out of remote airstrips. great pics fusebox

The grippen was made purposely to be operable in harsh and unconventional environments because at that time it was designed and built cold war planners knew and feared that soviet strategic forces were primarily taxed with striking and taking out at at least 40 to 70 percent of all western air and other military bases within the first 36 hours of an out break of conflict with the west using ballistic missiles and bombers while their massive numbers of more than 21000 tanks rolled in from the east.The soviet had at their peak aimed at 40 percent of their missiles at all these western airbases up to around 1981-86 until Ronald Reagan negotiated the first series of arms limitations treaties with the USA and SOVIET UNION .
The APACHE helicopter was born as part answer to the massive numbers of soviet tanks threat posed to the western armies.
The swedes knew that the soviets would want to strike them in the first wave so that they can use their home as a staging place for the rest of Europe and also be able to intercept missiles from here that would be raining in from continental America.
The grippen is a truly great plane and easy to operate
and is much better than most people think, but is no mach to the SU30 OR F15 EAGLE.

Kdf chopper's


Also KDF must not be using the retro-fitted panhards










These i believe are the retro-fitted panhards that should be seeing action in somalia.( can somebody see the difference in the two)

@ Spartan was on leave but now I back in full action.
@Cylon give as break man. do me a favor; quite you favorite pass time and coming back to earth…

cylon wrote:

A mi-171 at the coast


Could this be a kenyan f-16 it has the insignia on the wings


So these are KDF elusive c-130's i got these images on google



A KDF helicopter being shipped to who knows where.

Flying Crane wrote:@ Spartan was on leave but now I back in full action.
@Cylon give as break man. do me a favor; quite you favorite pass time and coming back to earth…

cylon wrote:

A mi-171 at the coast


Could this be a kenyan f-16 it has the insignia on the wings


So these are KDF elusive c-130's i got these images on google



A KDF helicopter being shipped to who knows where.

Hahaha flying crane im grounded.

Spartan wrote:

vince wrote:A simple flip of the coin and you won't tell the difference between AS and TFG.

http://www.somaliareport.com/index.php/post/2823/TFG_Executes_Government_Soldier__

Many countries have on their books laws that allow the army execute members of its own. In some cases, like on the frontline, your case will not even be heard at base. A summary court martial will sit and within four hours your goose is cooked. I don't know about Ke, but Tz, Rwanda and Uganda have similar laws. I would expect nothing less if I killed another soldier.

That would have been despicable if it were happening to a civilian. The conduct and discipline of soldiers is supposed to be better than that of civilians because of their training, that's why justice for them is swift and often brutal.

But I will cut you some slack. Soldeirs are drawn from the wider society. Do not expect angels when the soldiers have been drawn from a generation that has seen only violence and has not known any authority apart from that of the gun.

Not in Kenya of East Africa!! Such incidences are also perceived in KDF as grave command-failures too! But I cannot agree more that the conduct and discipline of Soldiers must of needs be ''more disciplined'' than civilians, lest they are unable to face extreme adversity on the battle-ground with courage, discipline and honor. And you are dang right again, Spartan, of necessity Armies inculcate whatever measures (punitive and educational) as are necessary in response to these dynamics of their backgrounding society - therefore within the Somalian context, and at these initial stages to set the standards, TFG are ''justified'' in this action. But nevertheless - dammit, it just simply ain't the way a soldier should die.

[quote="cylon"][quote="Flying Crane"]@ Spartan was on leave but now I back in full action.
@Cylon give as break man. do me a favor; quite you favorite pass time and coming back to earth…

cylon wrote:


Hahaha flying crane im grounded.

s''

@Cylon - don't get stampeded by the ''Flying Bird'', little bro - he is more 'croak'' than ''poke'', if you know what I mean. But an vital component of our ensemble here, nevertheless!!

@Flying Crane - welcome back bro. Now, the bible does say that ''...young men shall see visions, and old men dream..'' or something to that effect.

countersniper wrote:The grippen is a truly great plane and easy to operate
and is much better than most people think, but is no mach to the SU30 OR F15 EAGLE.

The above conclusion is subject to debate.
The grippen offers many advantages over the above two older airframes.... Supercruise, $2k per hour operation cost, STOL capable, ease of servicability, no full dependance on an AB....(you must'av atleast read this from where you copy pasta'd your post)
Besides, The Swedes' AF would need to be batshit nuts in order to aquire a bird that cannot effectively counter the effective Su-Mig threat from the east.

[quote="ole Nkarei"][quote="cylon"]

Flying Crane wrote:@ Spartan was on leave but now I back in full action.
@Cylon give as break man. do me a favor; quite you favorite pass time and coming back to earth…

cylon wrote:


Hahaha flying crane im grounded.

s''

@Cylon - don't get stampeded by the ''Flying Bird'', little bro - he is more 'croak'' than ''poke'', if you know what I mean. But an vital component of our ensemble here, nevertheless!!

@Flying Crane - welcome back bro. Now, the bible does say that ''...young men shall see visions, and old men dream..'' or something to that effect.

At ole nakeri i was just trying to appease the flying crane i didnt feel like entering an argument with the fellow. since he has a knack for saying things foolishly as i read in other posts.

The question is whether the F-15E (several dozen, no less) might not be overkill for the Kenyana theatre.

Vitruvian wrote:...would it then not make more sense ... to go for the cutting edge, light-weight, extremely versatile, ultimately upgradeable, cheap-and-easy-to-maintain, inexpensive-to-fly, land-me-anywhere, no-spare parts-issues JAS 39 Gripen NG that is also configured to carry an array of (NATO and other) munitions, has a 50-year airframe and is manufactured in neutral Sweden...?
Combat aircraft flight cost per hour:
- Gripen: $3,000 (or less)
- Eurofighter: $14,000
- Rafale: $16,000
- F-15C: $17,000-$30,000

One-on-one, the Gripen may very well be inferior to the F-15/Su 27 family but how relevant is that when we are unlikely to engage in Medieval-style jousting? The Gripen 's propensity for continuous software upgrades and it's networked defence Tactical Information Data Link System are particularly impressive:

One Gripen can provide radar sensing for four of its colleagues, allowing a single fighter to track a target, while the others use the data for a stealthy attack. TIDLS also permits multiple fighters to quickly and accurately lock onto a target's track through triangulation from several radars; or allows one fighter to jam a target while another tracks it; or allows multiple fighters to use different radar frequencies collaboratively to "burn through" jamming transmissions...
TIDLS can connect up to four aircraft in a full-time two-way link. It has a range of 500 km and is highly resistant to jamming; almost the only way to jam the system is to position a jammer aircraft directly between the two communicating Gripens. Its basic modes include the ability to display the position, bearing, and speed of all four aircraft in a formation, including basic status information such as fuel and weapons state...
TIDLS information, along with radar, EW, and mapping data, appears on the central MFD. The display reflects complete sensor fusion: a target that is being tracked by multiple sources is one target on the screen. Detailed symbols distinguish between friendlies, hostiles, and unidentified targets and show who has targeted whom.

http://jas39gripen.blogspot.com/

The Gripen has long since transcended it's Cold War role. It is perhaps the most modern non-stealth aircraft around and retains many of its original unique features - such as operating in harsh and unconventional environments. The F-15s and Sukhois may look more intimidating and certainly pack a more powerful punch. But the Gripen is a high-tech surgeon's scalpel which, at the flip of a switch, becomes a sledgehammer. And this seems to be more in line with what I have always understood the KDF military doctrine - and the bedrock of its success - to be.

countersniper wrote:The grippen was made purposely to be operable in harsh and unconventional environments because at that time it was designed and built cold war planners knew and feared that soviet strategic forces were primarily taxed with striking and taking out at at least 40 to 70 percent of all western air and other military bases within the first 36 hours of an out break of conflict with the west using ballistic missiles and bombers while their massive numbers of more than 21000 tanks rolled in from the east.The soviet had at their peak aimed at 40 percent of their missiles at all these western airbases up to around 1981-86 until Ronald Reagan negotiated the first series of arms limitations treaties with the USA and SOVIET UNION .
The APACHE helicopter was born as part answer to the massive numbers of soviet tanks threat posed to the western armies.
The swedes knew that the soviets would want to strike them in the first wave so that they can use their home as a staging place for the rest of Europe and also be able to intercept missiles from here that would be raining in from continental America.
The grippen is a truly great plane and easy to operate
and is much better than most people think, but is no mach to the SU30 OR F15 EAGLE.

[quote="Vitruvian"] The Gripen 's propensity for continuous software upgrades and it's networked defence Tactical Information Data Link System are particularly impressive:
[quote]

With all the praise we have heard of Gripen avionics, I find this, from the "leaked" Swiss evaluation report interesting.



I think somtimes marketing people choose to maximise on a particular aspect that may not be unique to their fighter

If the SINner's claims are indeed true that we are seeking massive F15E force of 35 birds (that need to be operated at circa $17k/hr), then we may be "stuffing our mouths with an overdose of steroids that will kill us" (or our economy)

If we are looking for external sources to fund our Al-Shabaab duck-hunt season, how the f$%^ are we going to afford to keep that flock without "starving other sectors"

If you think about it, birds like the tigershark.......and now the Swedish griffin were made for folks like us.

GUYS I PULLED THIS CLIP FROM YOU TUBE.SEEMS KISMAYO IS NEVER FAR AWAY.FIREWORKS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sQmWWUlzuhc

WITH THIS OVERWHELMING FIREPOWER,AL SHABAB IS AS GOOD AS GONE.MAN,WE NOT EVEN TALKING HEAVY METAL THIS IS JUST A "REGULAR" ENGAGEMENT. HOW IS AL.SBAB LIKELY TO SURVIVE? NO WAY!

one man army wrote:GUYS I PULLED THIS CLIP FROM YOU TUBE.SEEMS KISMAYO IS NEVER FAR AWAY.FIREWORKS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sQmWWUlzuhc

WITH THIS OVERWHELMING FIREPOWER,AL SHABAB IS AS GOOD AS GONE.MAN,WE NOT EVEN TALKING HEAVY METAL THIS IS JUST A "REGULAR" ENGAGEMENT. HOW IS AL.SBAB LIKELY TO SURVIVE? NO WAY!

Jan 16th

fuse box,
i know the clip was posted around january which is a month ago my whole point is not when it was posted but the ripples it sends across.it amplifies the coordination of air and ground assets to deal with the al shabaab not the kind of chaotic firing we have seen elsewhere with AMISON .Roger?

I came across this forum last week, loved it and have been following it since then(though on the sidelines). I have been loving the witticism of @OleNkarei, @Jasiri and company in matters military. I couldn't help but observe that the forum has mainly been centered around military hardware. Being an IT guy, a coder to be specific, I wondered how adept is KDF in cyber warfare?

@Flying Crane - welcome back bro. Now, the bible does say that ''...young men shall see visions, and old men dream..'' or something to that effect.

Mr Nkarei when someone talks about building a radar that tracks carbon partial emitted from aircraft engines and he contacted pentagon for a deal to build them a spike energy IED neutralizing equipment , a question arise is someone missing his daily medication or do we need to step up the does.

And then, when we do our homework properly:


http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/swiss-minister-stands-by-gripen-selection-368302/

There is the Gripen JAS 39A/B (1988), the JAS 39C/D (1997) and the JAS 39E/F or New Generation (NG), introduced in 2008, to which my post refers. Your report, as the minister says, is obsolete.

tempest wrote:

Vitruvian wrote: The Gripen 's propensity for continuous software upgrades and it's networked defence Tactical Information Data Link System are particularly impressive:

With all the praise we have heard of Gripen avionics, I find this, from the "leaked" Swiss evaluation report interesting.


I think somtimes marketing people choose to maximise on a particular aspect that may not be unique to their fighter

It would cost at least $600,000 and as much as $1 million to fly all 35 birds for 1 hour. Overdose of steroids or, perhaps, a recurring case of angloleasingitis?

fusebox wrote:If the SINner's claims are indeed true that we are seeking massive F15E force of 35 birds (that need to be operated at circa $17k/hr), then we may be "stuffing our mouths with an overdose of steroids that will kill us" (or our economy)

If we are looking for external sources to fund our Al-Shabaab duck-hunt season, how the f$%^ are we going to afford to keep that flock without "starving other sectors"

If you think about it, birds like the tigershark.......and now the Swedish griffin were made for folks like us.

It would cost at least $600,000 and as much as $1 million to fly all 35 birds for 1 hour.

I don't see us needing to fly the 35 birds of prey at once any time soon. Who would we be fighting? 3-6 would do some serious work. Even 1 or two.

For us to use all we may be doing somebody's dirty job...maybe huko misri...and they pay for that.

On other issues; I read a story on local dailies to the effect that Msa Port takes one year to handle what Singapore transacts in a WEEK!

What's up. Are we that ineffective?

rwigi wrote:

It would cost at least $600,000 and as much as $1 million to fly all 35 birds for 1 hour.

I don't see us needing to fly the 35 birds of prey at once any time soon. Who would we be fighting? 3-6 would do some serious work. Even 1 or two.

For us to use all we may be doing somebody's dirty job...maybe huko misri...and they pay for that.

On other issues; I read a story on local dailies to the effect that Msa Port takes one year to handle what Singapore transacts in a WEEK!

What's up. Are we that ineffective?

Then why buy 35 instead of 3-6, or even 1 or 2. But that's beside the point. The point is that it would cost $100,000 - $180,000 to fly 6 F-15s for 1 hour and 50 - 60 Gripens for the same cost; or $12,000 - $18,000 to fly 6 Gripens for 60 minutes. That's a factor of 10.
I reckon 50 Gripens could take out 6 F-15s (or 6 Su30s) any day, every day for the next 30 years.

Vitruvian wrote:Then why buy 35 instead of 3-6, or even 1 or 2. But that's beside the point. The point is that it would cost $100,000 - $180,000 to fly 6 F-15s for 1 hour and 50 - 60 Gripens for the same cost; or $12,000 - $18,000 to fly 6 Gripens for 60 minutes. That's a factor of 10.
I reckon 50 Gripens could take out 6 F-15s (or 6 Su30s) any day, every day for the next 30 years.

Tactical & economical advantage!

How much does it cost to run our F-5EMs by the way?

This debate on the eff-fifteen-ees is kinda superfulous presently, I reckon!! The deed is done, gentlemen!!

@Vitruvian, allow me a correction, mate. From researched and comparative, to both the Iraqi and Afghanistan Theaters, data, the O/S costs per hour are just over USD14,000 per hour per Strike eagle and just under USD 7,000 for the Fighting Falcon per hour in either CAS or ISR tasking. And despite the vaunted sales-pitch claims by SAAB on the supposedly comparative lower O/S costs of the JAS-39, factual comparative study indicate the Fighting Falcon, which has similarities of purpose and capabilities with the JAS-39, to be lower in O/S costs by nearly UAD1500 per hour!! Please also note that this Theater Study includes costs that would otherwise not be needed with Kenyana, such as Air-refueling and their auxiliaries.

There are unique characteristics of both the OIF and OEF to which the Sammy has reacted with his usual extravagance – no doubt if this same task was left to Risasi and his colleagues, or the Israelis for that matter, the O/S would be markedly lower - taking a mallet to a mosquito is Sammy's penchant of doing war, as we all know!! Nevertheless, and despite the half-way costs of the Fighting Falcon to the Strike Eagle, it should be borne in mind that there birds are not inter-changeable in tasking or purpose. I will defer to the Bullet-man to develop this further.

But seriously, projecting ourselves ten years into a future in which Kenya has effectively interwoven herself into the life and blood of this entire Kenyana region, and the possible reactions to the other political-economic blocks (North and South Africa) that will surely germinate for similar justifications as those that will have driven “Kenyana” into being, one can begin to see the absolute necessity for the Strike Eagles, of which there will be plenty as fifth and sixth generation fighters take front-line perspective with Sammy and his cohorts. The entire Eastern Coast Seaboard is the key to the survival and growth of the entire Kenyana Region – see the import and export arteries running along this seaboard from Ruvuma to Mogadishu and all the way to the Benguela, Kinshasa, Kigali, Kampala, Juba, Addis, Asmara, etc.....

@Flying Crane - Hehehe!! Vasco Da gama was laughed off when he said the flat world was round, or something like that. But I get your meaning loud and in the clear, mate!!

Flying Crane wrote:

@Flying Crane - welcome back bro. Now, the bible does say that ''...young men shall see visions, and old men dream..'' or something to that effect.

Mr Nkarei when someone talks about building a radar that tracks carbon partial emitted from aircraft engines and he contacted pentagon for a deal to build them a spike energy IED neutralizing equipment , a question arise is someone missing his daily medication or do we need to step up the does.

Such creative minds need to be nurtured than despised,mr Crane. A 17yr old girl at Penny State developed a percusion based mine detector with greater capabilities than available at the market.....wide distance and accuracy. A year later(2011) she is now at one of the leading arms manufacturing companies at Michigan. The chap talking about IED detection capability is very possible. The question is intellectual marketing capabilities to fine tune his ideas into progressive discovery. Btw,think of mpesa,cardless/biometrix atm machines,cellphone operated doors/gates being some of creative ideas emerging from that region NOT in the West which all can be modernised to suite certain military use. Hope you connect the dots,Crane man.