Re: Kenya Defence Force

jasiri Sun Feb 19 2012, 19:55

fusebox wrote:Speaking of the grippen, why do europeans LOVE delta-wing configs more than the stealthy,conventional pak-fa and f22 type config?

i think it partially has to do with a hangover from cold war air combat strategy. Because of the superior USSR air forces, NATO developed a strategy where in case of their air bases getting cratered they would use roads and hastily cleared forest air strips. for this to work they needed a plane that could perform the task effortlessly. so they designed delta winged canard design. in my knowledge of air crafts, canard equipped aircraft tend to have a shorter take off run as compared to conventional design a/c.

@ countersnipper, the port of Mombasa can handle a carrier. HMS Illustrious docked in Dec of 01, some French carrier docked sometime in 06 i think. a carrier of the Saipan displacement class can comfortably dock in MSA

Guest Sun Feb 19 2012, 19:56

Flying Crane wrote:Mr Nkarei when someone talks about building a radar that tracks carbon partial emitted from aircraft engines and he contacted pentagon for a deal to build them a spike energy IED neutralizing equipment , a question arise is someone missing his daily medication or do we need to step up the does.

I understand this sentence only because I re-wrote it phonetically and repeated it several times.

Guest Sun Feb 19 2012, 19:58

ole Nkarei wrote:This debate on the eff-fifteen-ees is kinda superfulous presently, I reckon!! The deed is done, gentlemen!!

Permission to speak freely SIR!!!
Deed done???? Wishful thinking aside, are we really really really meant to take as gospel, our tigers being "superfluous'd" by 35 striking eagles?

ole Sidai wrote:A 17yr old girl at Penny State developed a percusion based mine detector with greater capabilities than available at the market.....wide distance and accuracy.

Kindly save us some Googling and share a link would you

Guest Sun Feb 19 2012, 20:04

Vitruvian wrote:
Flying Crane wrote:Mr Nkarei when someone talks about building a radar that tracks carbon partial emitted from aircraft engines and he contacted pentagon for a deal to build them a spike energy IED neutralizing equipment , a question arise is someone missing his daily medication or do we need to step up the does.

I understand this sentence only because I re-wrote it phonetically and repeated it several times.

Hehehe!! Had some trouble myself finding my way in the same cratered field, Vitruvian!! Very Happy

@ Fusebox - the key word is ''incrementally'' - rwaza 2030 is the driving motive and general timeframe. Two squadrons should take front-line slack from the Tigers to start with. Don't be incredulous, brother. cat

And pls just use my call-sign, bra. Too much rigidity in my normal environment, i hope not here too,O!! Embarassed

jasiri Sun Feb 19 2012, 20:10

i find Cyclone to be on some quality dream card that hasn't been passed to most of us at times, but on this i actually do agree with him. Every aircraft burns fuel, that in turn means carbon particles released into the atm. If the man says he can find a way to vector Risasi or GADU chaps at the intruder then he has my support moral. Cyclon, u could actually be on the threshold of something great.
Grippen wise, i think we should see one thing here. This bird id to network thirsty for our air force. it is a good thing but the support infrastructure for this bird will drown the air force. i think if Kenya ever considered the bird, that was its main drawback.

Guest Sun Feb 19 2012, 20:30

I also forgot to ask, by 2020, won't that bird be facing phase out?
Subiri na hebu tuwaze kidogo.
Rwaza 2030 spec says that we will be using 35 of these as our air superiority birds? And use them to police kenyana skies? By 2030 some of those airframes will likely be 60 years old! (if we buy second hand)
By that time our oil rich jiranis will be capable of affording advanced revisions of PAK-FAs and J-20s

Guest Sun Feb 19 2012, 20:51

jasiri wrote:
Grippen wise, i think we should see one thing here. This bird is too network thirsty for our air force. it is a good thing but the support infrastructure for this bird will drown the air force. i think if Kenya ever considered the bird, that was its main drawback.

Arms Merchants come riding on the coat-tails of their countries' Commercial Attaches in the small things, and on their Ambassadors. So, SAAB calls to pitch their JAS-39, about the same time South Africa was nibbling. We made no probe. I have heard expressed in Martial circles same concerns that Jas brings out above, and that the JAS-39 is too fundamentally defensive-in-philosophy(not to mean it lacks offensive capabilities, though) - which fits in very nicely with the placid lame-duck Military Doctrine taking root in SANDF but which utterly lacks in the ''dare'' for the very fast evolving security environment in Kenyana that Rwaza 2030 demands of KDF. Consequent of which even the Fighting Falcon, which JAS-39 was intended to rival, far outclasses it in combat capabilities.

@fusebox - the glut in offensive birds will be driven by how fast Rwaza 2030 comes on-stream - It is not to mean that deliveries will be taking place in 2030, man. Rwaza 2030 is back-boned on a strong and clear Military offensive and defensive capabilities - only way to stop this Region from going the way of Nigeria with her near similar population size and immediate Raw Material worth. By 2030, these birds will either begin rotating out, or taking secondary tasking from newer and better birds.

Guest Sun Feb 19 2012, 21:03

ole Nkarei wrote:This debate on the eff-fifteen-ees is kinda superfulous presently, I reckon!! The deed is done, gentlemen!!

The matter may very well be ad acta but the debate is by no means superfluous. If for no other reason then because some civilian oversight committee is likely to echo these very same concerns in the foreseeable future, for reasons that are not unpatriotic.
For the uninitiated among us - what are these prospective threats in our closer and more distant vicinity that warrant such a large fleet of exorbitant aggressor aircraft? In my laic mind (this, of course, is an invitation to commentary):
- If anyone within Kenyana, then we have already lost miserably.
- Juba's Oil and Khartoum: the window of opportunity is closing faster than an F-15E on afterburners. Shorn of Abyei, Darfur, Kordofan and Blue Nile, 10 years from now Cartoum (thus renamed to reflect the new prevalent mode of transportation due to lack of internally combustible propellants) will not be much more than a supplemented capital region. This Cartoum-Omdurman Metropolitan Area (Coma - heh heh!), devoid of resources, self esteem and raison d'être, may very well catch the Somali Flu and is unlikely to pose much of a conventional threat. Unless it is absorbed by and becomes a province of Pharaoh.
- The River Nile and Pharaoh: as we have been assured severally on this forum, Pharaoh is unable to mount a serious threat across the length and breadth of Coma without suffering horrific loss to attrition. Unless it absorbs Coma. But what with their new ideological leaning, they are more likely to face a stand off with David's kith and kin, which doesn't leave much time for us kaffirs down south. And the "international community" (a euphemism for the Western political agendas) may have a thing or two to say about that.
- King Solomon's Mines and Everybody: if versus the Benguelans, then surely we will be playing into the hands of Babylon; if versus Babylon, well, 35 F-15s is a very small drop in a very large ocean.

Guest Sun Feb 19 2012, 21:28

- Juba's Oil and Khartoum: the window of opportunity is closing faster
than an F-15E on afterburners. Shorn of Abyei, Darfur, Kordofan and Blue
Nile, 10 years from now Cartoum (thus renamed to reflect the new
prevalent mode of transportation due to lack of internally combustible
propellants) will not be much more than a supplemented capital region.
This Cartoum-Omdurman Metropolitan Area (Coma - heh heh!), devoid of
resources, self esteem and raison d'être, may very well catch the Somali
Flu and is unlikely to pose much of a conventional threat. Unless it is
absorbed by and becomes a province of Pharaoh.
- The River Nile and
Pharaoh: as we have been assured severally on this forum, Pharaoh is
unable to mount a serious threat across the length and breadth of Coma
without suffering horrific loss to attrition. Unless it absorbs Coma.
But what with their new ideological leaning, they are more likely to
face a stand off with David's kith and kin, which doesn't leave much
time for us kaffirs down south. And the "international community" (a
euphemism for the Western political agendas) may have a thing or two to
say about that.
- King Solomon's Mines and Everybody: if versus the
Benguelans, then surely we will be playing into the hands of Babylon; if
versus Babylon, well, 35 F-15s is a very small drop in a very large
ocean.

@Vitruvian: Tafadhali fafanua...for some of us to see some more light. What a Face

Guest Sun Feb 19 2012, 21:29

jasiri wrote:
Grippen wise, i think we should see one thing here. This bird is too network thirsty for our air force. it is a good thing but the support infrastructure for this bird will drown the air force. i think if Kenya ever considered the bird, that was its main drawback.

The best way to settle this argument is not to play it out in our minds but check how they perform during war games....e.g Red FLag. Speaking of red flag, are the results/outcomes published in conclusive credible & reports sans personal opinions?

ole Nkarei wrote:...only way to stop this Region from going the way of Nigeria with her near similar population size and immediate Raw Material worth.

I would believe the solution to that is not a war bird. That is for internal chaps. NSIS, CID et all

Risasi Sun Feb 19 2012, 21:41

spartan wrote:Does military muscle have to be commensurate with economic strength? I mean, Nigeria and South Africa have enough assets to deal with their threats, both real and perceived.

fusebox wrote:I doubt any of those two has a reason to up the ante.
SA's "external threats" are really no match for their well trained grippen crews and 9ja has more to worry about internally. Like tz, their old Zhōngguó birds are deterrent enuf

hey guys Naijja and S.A have military expenditures that dwarf the combine E.A states (KE,UG,TZ,RWD and BRD).
http://www.myweku.com/2011/06/the-top-25-military-spending-countries-in-africa/

E.A exhibits Six 4th Generation fighters (thanks to crane lol!

), an upgraded Air forces/army/ operational navy (KE), +60 pcs gunship (a bulk in KE and more to come), a rudimentary Air defense network (TZ), +/-1000pcs functioning APC,s and MBT combined, a policing network, an internal and external information harvesting system . the deliberated economies should have had at least half that combined size for their monies worth or spendings equal to an E.A state at most. What do they have to show for their spending:scratch: ? Countries with similar expenditure like, Egypt, Angola, Morocco, and Algeria do substantiate for that and the equipment reflect so at base.

S.A perceived threat called for 250 pcs MBT and APC each. The number fell by 70% to 40pcs.
Naiija has had persistent issue at the Niger delta (homeland security). Last year they were caught flat footed by the part time crook; Boko Haram

There are people who have money and people who are rich….. get what I mean Laughing

Guest Sun Feb 19 2012, 22:04

fusebox wrote:"ole Nkarei"]...only way to stop this Region from going the way of Nigeria with her near similar population size and immediate Raw Material worth.

I would believe the solution to that is not a war bird.That is for internal chaps. NSIS, CID et all[/quote]

That is more of the same tired, old, ineffectual medicine. The Nigerian implosion is not internally generated - Muammar Qaddafi last year actually let the cat out of this insidious bag when he without discretion proposed the division of Nigeria into four! The world is locked in deathly combat in degrees of heat about the two essential drivers for society transformation - raw material and markets. We oft cloth these very primordial activities in all manner of high-sounding philosophies. Certainly Africa has not stagnated these five centuries because African lack ingenuity and hunger for social transformation - why did the Colonizers come to Africa in the first place, and are their justifications then any less relevant and imperative today? To have a fighting chance to survive in this increasingly reduced world, Africa must into the next thirty years gravitate around four politico-economic-military pBlocks hopefully all of them in some sort of cohabitation with each other - The Arab north around Egypt, Western Africa (ECOWAS-centric) around Nigeria, ''Kenyana'' in the entire Waist of Africa, and Southern Africa around RSA. Probably these Blocks may one day soon finally merge, and the synergy will be appalling to witness!!

In each of these four Blocks there is an inexplicable and baffling festering wound - Zimbabwe, Somalia, Nigeria, Sudan. And many other likely candidatures too!! Well, I can distinguish that you are not as gullible as to believe these are mere coincidental societal failures of such similarity! In Africa.

We are at War, have been at War for over six hundred years. Unless we build some stout politico-military clutches to clamber up to our feet, we will forever remain on our hunches, a source for raw materials to build other enslaving Blocks, and a market for finished product made from our raw materials from other enslaving blocks.

Risasi Sun Feb 19 2012, 22:04

Vitruvian wrote:Tom, perhaps you would be willing to give us a brief lesson in the naming convention or formation nomenclature used by KDF.
For example (source Wikipedia), the Infantry has 6 battalions - 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 and 15. The Paras are 20 battalion, Air Cavalry is 50, there is a 77 artillery battalion and a 78 and 81 tank battalion, among others.
What happens to the numbers in-between?

Infantry battalions are coded in odd numbers while support battalions taken even numbers. 50 Air calvery was coded from the 50 chopers it intially recieved. 66 artillery, 76tank, 77artillery,78tank and the 81tank were coded from the year of commisioning....

mbs wrote:why then cant we(KDF) create a third force in Somalia to fight for our 'rights'. it seems we are being shoved aside as we are too nice. Rwanda has done it in the DRC and also UG. We cant create a landing pad for anyone else to operate in. its time to be selfish. either we are in command or nobody is !.

The TGF should have done just that but it failed.

N.B proliferation of arms and training to an unstable region/force could boomerang back to our door step. Lesson learned from Taliban/US affairs

Risasi Sun Feb 19 2012, 22:12

Landing and taxi on public roads is not big deal as such. A runway is nothing more then a reinforced straight road.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAdC_DnG5Z4

When it comes to landing
Others can land safely without landing gears
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqiArXOodo4

while some are hastily retract land gear before attain enough lift
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Cunaek9W24&feature=related

other come home in style
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQJokmGQvys

while other can do it with one wing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ76BSassms

on matter related to public road usage you ought to ask yourself how will that aircraft take off without Ground support equipments e.g Air jet starters that small generator like vehicle used for starting aircrafts, what about refueling and arming the aircraft. Moving all these support equipments to a predetermine area is a good establishing another AB. I would look at it as dig a hole to cover other hole. it make no sense. fill me with a scenario that warrants that.

separately Data link is not thing more then a two way encrypt communication platform. Most aircraft post 2000 role out with data link cap. From civilian to military aircraft. You imagination fits its purpose. The Zw-9 is Data link capable.

Vitruvian wrote:
Then why buy 35 instead of 3-6, or even 1 or 2. But that's beside the point. The point is that it would cost $100,000 - $180,000 to fly 6 F-15s for 1 hour and 50 - 60 Gripens for the same cost; or $12,000 - $18,000 to fly 6 Gripens for 60 minutes. That's a factor of 10.
I reckon 50 Gripens could take out 6 F-15s (or 6 Su30s) any day, every day for the next 30 years.

Well said Mr. , but note that the product in question , for KDF is an aftermarket version. It wouldn,t equate to those figgers.

How I wish we could have a cocktail party one day with all member of the forum, crane bro I would pay a fortune to see your face... Laughing

cylon Sun Feb 19 2012, 22:12

.

one man army wrote:GUYS I PULLED THIS CLIP FROM YOU TUBE.SEEMS KISMAYO IS NEVER FAR AWAY.FIREWORKS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sQmWWUlzuhc

WITH THIS OVERWHELMING FIREPOWER,AL SHABAB IS AS GOOD AS GONE.MAN,WE NOT EVEN TALKING HEAVY METAL THIS IS JUST A "REGULAR" ENGAGEMENT. HOW IS AL.SBAB LIKELY TO SURVIVE? NO WAY!

I hope our flyboys are recording every bit of action is when the war is over i can get myself some popcorn and watch the carnage unfold infront of my eyes. It looks like KDF will surround kismayo with amisom troops coming along the north of the city( they will meet most of the heavy resistance.)
because most of the fighters are escaping from crazy town to the last strategic place then kdf will unleash a deadly barrage of death from both sea , air, and land probably this is where we see the b'51 noras in use.

Guest Sun Feb 19 2012, 22:13

rwigi wrote:@Vitruvian: Tafadhali fafanua...for some of us to see some more light.

If the threat warranting the F-15Es comes from our immediate neighbourhood, dubbed Kenyana, then I think we will have failed diplomatically and there will be nothing of substance to defend.
If the threat is Khartoum, how real will that threat be 10 years down the line? There is every possibility that Abyei, Darfur, Kordofan and Blue Nile will be lost to Khartoum. Without sufficient resources, it will be very hard-pressed to pose any credible threat. It may opt for a loose union with Egypt, if the latter saw any advantage in such an arrangement vis-à-vis its claim to the Nile. In the worst-case scenario, a desolate Khartoum implodes, Somalia-style.
If the threat is Egypt (Nile Treaty), what is the possibility of direct conflict considering the vast distances it would have to cross to project its military power? Unless it is able to take its time and incrementally move its ordnance into position across a newly acquired province, such as Sudan, as unlikely as that may be. And with an immoderate, Islamist supermajority in parliament, it is likely that their focus will once again be its immediate neighbour Israel and we will be less of a concern.
If the threat comes from southern Africa (say, Angola and RSA) over Congo's resources, then we will be playing into the hands of the West (and the East). They will waltz in and take the pickings.
If the threat comes from the West (and the East) for the same reason, then what are our F-15s going to do?

cylon Sun Feb 19 2012, 22:26

Flying Crane wrote:
@Flying Crane - welcome back bro. Now, the bible does say that ''...young men shall see visions, and old men dream..'' or something to that effect.
Mr Nkarei when someone talks about building a radar that tracks carbon partial emitted from aircraft engines and he contacted pentagon for a deal to build them a spike energy IED neutralizing equipment , a question arise is someone missing his daily medication or do we need to step up the does.

Flying crane the carbon emission radar tracker is a great idea to track stealth planes i have already sold the idea to the pentagon and they loved it i still havent received a hearing date to explain the technology. they are pretty worried with china and iran making huge strides in the stealth department that they want a new way to track such planes.
And the IED device its just a simple side of the road spike and it works mainly by jamming ieds detonation signals and also tracks scans the ground using radar to sense any devices.

Mr. crane your the one who needs medication. and can you come up with any technologies that will change future warfare i dont think so then so keep up the hush hush.

Guest Sun Feb 19 2012, 22:38

And with an immoderate, Islamist supermajority in parliament, it is
likely that their focus will once again be its immediate neighbour
Israel and we will be less of a concern.
If the threat comes from
southern Africa (say, Angola and RSA) over Congo's resources, then we
will be playing into the hands of the West (and the East). They will
waltz in and take the pickings.
If the threat comes from the West (and the East) for the same reason, then what are our F-15s going to do?

Clearer now.
How and on whom the birds will be used is best known by KDF planners. Maybe ON can help you a bit there.But I believe the scenarios you have painted may not be very far off.

I think the birds will mostly act as a deterrent ; against would be aggressors both from nearby and those far off.

cylon Sun Feb 19 2012, 22:43

jasiri wrote:i find Cyclone to be on some quality dream card that hasn't been passed to most of us at times, but on this i actually do agree with him. Every aircraft burns fuel, that in turn means carbon particles released into the atm. If the man says he can find a way to vector Risasi or GADU chaps at the intruder then he has my support moral. Cyclon, u could actually be on the threshold of something great.
Grippen wise, i think we should see one thing here. This bird id to network thirsty for our air force. it is a good thing but the support infrastructure for this bird will drown the air force. i think if Kenya ever considered the bird, that was its main drawback.

Thanks for the support jasiri i actually got my idea at looking at jets take off and land at airports every time i would see a 747 take off i would see a trail of fine black smoke coming from the engines and then i realized if there was a way to track that emission it would indeed change the world.

cylon Sun Feb 19 2012, 22:50

This is to back up Ole siadi

Designing a Mine Detecting Device. Marian Bechtel,
a 17-year old Hempfield High School student from Lancaster,
Pennsylvania was inspired to take on the serious issue of abandoned
landmines which are still found in many place s around the world and
investigated an innovative method for safe demining. Mar ian’s design
could lead to a simple, cheap, and reliable humanitarian demining tool
and earned Marian honors as a Finalist at the 2011 Intel International
Science and Engineering Fair. Marian also won a second place award from
the American Intellectual Property Law Association, a merit award from
the Society of Exploration Geophysicists, a $1,000 award from the U.S.
Army, and has recently been name d an Intel Science Talent Search 2012
finalist.
http://science.education.nih.gov/sciedblog.nsf/archive?openview&title=Obama&type=cat&cat=Obama

cylon Sun Feb 19 2012, 22:55

ole Nkarei wrote:
fusebox wrote:"ole Nkarei"]...only way to stop this Region from going the way of Nigeria with her near similar population size and immediate Raw Material worth.
I would believe the solution to that is not a war bird.That is for internal chaps. NSIS, CID et all

That is more of the same tired, old, ineffectual medicine. The Nigerian implosion is not internally generated - Muammar Qaddafi last year actually let the cat out of this insidious bag when he without discretion proposed the division of Nigeria into four! The world is locked in deathly combat in degrees of heat about the two essential drivers for society transformation - raw material and markets. We oft cloth these very primordial activities in all manner of high-sounding philosophies. Certainly Africa has not stagnated these five centuries because African lack ingenuity and hunger for social transformation - why did the Colonizers come to Africa in the first place, and are their justifications then any less relevant and imperative today? To have a fighting chance to survive in this increasingly reduced world, Africa must into the next thirty years gravitate around four politico-economic-military pBlocks hopefully all of them in some sort of cohabitation with each other - The Arab north around Egypt, Western Africa (ECOWAS-centric) around Nigeria, ''Kenyana'' in the entire Waist of Africa, and Southern Africa around RSA. Probably these Blocks may one day soon finally merge, and the synergy will be appalling to witness!!

In each of these four Blocks there is an inexplicable and baffling festering wound - Zimbabwe, Somalia, Nigeria, Sudan. And many other likely candidatures too!! Well, I can distinguish that you are not as gullible as to believe these are mere coincidental societal failures of such similarity! In Africa.

We are at War, have been at War for over six hundred years. Unless we build some stout politico-military clutches to clamber up to our feet, we will forever remain on our hunches, a source for raw materials to build other enslaving Blocks, and a market for finished product made from our raw materials from other enslaving blocks.
[/quote]

I agree with nakeri its time for africa to have its own Renaissance period. So we can leave the middle ages

Guest Sun Feb 19 2012, 23:06

Interesting post son of Nkarei.
Most things on this planet behave in similar fashion. Take for example tectonic plates & states.
Plates: Pressure builds up, plates shift - Cataclysm, then a new order reigns....only for a finite period then back to square 1.
States: Tension builds up, world wars erupt - Apocalypse, then new world order reigns....only for a finite period then back to square 1.

The "Africa Semi-Unite" scenario you posted will definitely result in a tenser Africa...God forbid....tense along religious lines. Could be the spark that retriggers the cold war, drawing in west & east....boom WW3...
Scratch that. I was just thinking out loud Very Happy

,

Now that the pros are here, (ill ask again in a different way)does anyone here know how the sweedz griffin performed at redflag? There is a shitload of inconclusive info here ->xxx scratch

xxx

Risasi wrote:
When it comes to landing
Others can land safely without landing gears
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqiArXOodo4

Loved that clip. saw it circa 5 months ago(as you can tell by the top comment Cool

)

Guest Sun Feb 19 2012, 23:54

fusebox wrote:Interesting post son of Nkarei.
Most things on this planet behave in similar fashion. Take for example tectonic plates & states.
Plates: Pressure builds up, plates shift - Cataclysm, then a new order reigns....only for a finite period then back to square 1.
States: Tension builds up, world wars erupt - Apocalypse, then new world order reigns....only for a finite period then back to square 1.

The "Africa Semi-Unite" scenario you posted will definitely result in a tenser Africa...God forbid....tense along religious lines. Could be the spark that retriggers the cold war, drawing in west & east....boom WW3...
Scratch that. I was just thinking out loud ,

Iam not entirely sure what to make out of your ''scratch-that'' post, but I will wait till I see the whites of your eyes before shooting.
Your analogue is grossly off the mark. Africa has no tectonic plate-divide - hell, even in each state the ''unitary'' status is more geographical than religious / cultural / historical, and these variances are carried forth into nearly every African State. A ''tenser'' Africa?- not in the context you draw in your soliloquy. Obviously competition between blocks and within blocks will accelerate with increased demand and utilization of Resources and Markets - ergo, heightened Risks, as well as greater Fruits. But the sort of fractious internecine genocidal events puppeteer-ed by the West will definitely not prevail. A Cold War drawing in east and west? Where in heaven's name have you been last sixty years? Liberia, Sierra Leone, DRC, Angola, Namibia, Somalia, Sudan, Libya, Mali, Mauritania, etc.. As long as Africa has what East and West require to stay alive, the Cold / Hot wars in Africa will only end when we are stronger and more focused to play purposely in it too. Is Africa any more chaotic than Europe in the 1th to 19th Centuries?

Guest Mon Feb 20 2012, 10:39

Vitruvian wrote:
1. If the threat warranting the F-15Es comes from our immediate neighbourhood, dubbed Kenyana, then I think we will have failed diplomatically and there will be nothing of substance to defend.

(Families have persistent challenges to authority, and inside of ‘’Kenyana’’ there will be demand for a strong willing hand, to keep the peace inside it by force of arms in need be. Only this will generate comfort and security inside the Umbrella of Kenyana – which conversely allows shifting of development-priorities of member-states away from conflict and security to social programs, in GoSS, Somalia, DRC for instance. Because the social-economic inequalities in a politico-economic block only encourage the pulling apart within the Block, and GoSS, Somalia, DRC desperately need to concentrate on Social programs to fully integrate into Kenyana. Why would DRC integrate into a weak Block that cannot ensure a semblance of Security within it?)

2. If the threat is Khartoum, how real will that threat be 10 years down the line? There is every possibility that Abyei, Darfur, Kordofan and Blue Nile will be lost to Khartoum. Without sufficient resources, it will be very hard-pressed to pose any credible threat. It may opt for a loose union with Egypt, if the latter saw any advantage in such an arrangement vis-à-vis its claim to the Nile. In the worst-case scenario, a desolate Khartoum implodes, Somalia-style.

(GoSS will be forced to relinguish a substantial portion of Abyei’s Crude to Sudan, which might be a worthy price for control of both Kordofans and the Blue Nile. Dafur is too far north to find confluence with Kenyana, and her demographics akin to Chad – which appears to gravitate around the Arab Northern Block with Egypt. Sudan, greatly changed and weakened, must find comfort in the Arab Northern Block, or perish the way of Somalia – note the recent rejection of Sudan’s membership probe into the expanding EAC.)

3. If the threat is Egypt (Nile Treaty), what is the possibility of direct conflict considering the vast distances it would have to cross to project its military power? Unless it is able to take its time and incrementally move its ordnance into position across a newly acquired province, such as Sudan, as unlikely as that may be. And with an immoderate, Islamist supermajority in parliament, it is likely that their focus will once again be its immediate neighbour Israel and we will be less of a concern.
If the threat comes from southern Africa (say, Angola and RSA) over Congo's resources, then we will be playing into the hands of the West (and the East). They will waltz in and take the pickings.

(Without Kenyana, MISRI could force a Nile waters utilization pact by bilateral efforts using Bribery, military and diplomatic intimidation and her Principals in the Western Capitals. In Kenyana, this is hardly possible, the disagreement with MISRI over the Nile cannot be militarized (little chances of a MISRI win) though there will be occasional spear-to-shield drumming between Kenyana and Arab North Blocks. Arab/Israali relations are currently dramatically fluid and Israel will try to detract MISRi from the direction of the Sinai. We can use this to our benefit. And grow more responsible in our Riparian duty to the Nile and to MISRI.)

4. If the threat comes from the West (and the East) for the same reason, then what are our F-15s going to do?

(These are truly dangerous waters we want to swim in, Kenyana is. And the risks are as great as the rewards. Luckily, the old stifling Order is crumbling quickly. We must be as ''wise as the serpent'', and have '' courage and conviction''. No choice - either we stand up, NOW, or simply vanish as a people.)

Guest Mon Feb 20 2012, 15:32

@ cyclon

How long before you get your hands on a prototype?

And will it be of benefit to us(Kenyana) in the foreseeable future?

jasiri Mon Feb 20 2012, 15:43

South Sudan is looking for another way to the sea through Djibouti and now through Tanzania! What does this mean for Kenyana? read http://www.theeastafrican.co.ke/business/Tanzania+plans+a+railway+line+to+reach+South+Sudan/-/2560/1330196/-/152eaqsz/-/index.html

Guest Mon Feb 20 2012, 18:45

@ole Nkarei
Your analogue is grossly off the mark. Africa has no tectonic plate-divide
If that was true, we would be "The UNITED STATES OF AFRIKENZ" and you would'av perished the thought of "Africa must into the next thirty years gravitate around four politico-economic-military pBlocks"
Now do you understand the "tect-plate ÷" i speak of? Just to help you, plate ≈ "pBlocks" (although plate != "pBlocks"). Hope you don't get confused.

A ''tenser'' Africa?- not in the context you draw in your soliloquy.
1. Example 1. Recent History
Tension - After WW2, inception & spread of "sovereignty over our territory" ideas in €'s empires - Afrika Zone.
Plates Shift - Decolonization Wars,Terrorism, Mau Mau etc and some aftershocks in the form of coups
NewWorldOrda - En,double-u,Oe...Independent afriken states (tho not yet uhuru)

Afrika must redefine herself to look for this true elusive uhuru, and the above process will repeat itself, tho the story will be different.

A Cold War drawing in east and west? Where in heaven's name have you been last sixty years? Liberia, Sierra Leone, DRC, Angola, Namibia, Somalia, Sudan, Libya, Mali, Mauritania, etc..
Forget the "fridge cold" - "under the table" - "scramble for Afrika" type of ColdWar.
I'm talking "liquid nitrogen" - "cuban missile crisis" - "Stay the f*%^ away from my small,resource-rich,Afriken allies or i'll raep you" kind of ColdWar.
Like the siasa that's been going on in the ME but at the "Ice Cold" level.
//EOF

MWAURA Mon Feb 20 2012, 19:27

Btw,somebody answer me this question. Exactly what purpose will those 5th generation su 33s serve? They're not enough in number to deter Egypt if the Nile issue ever goes hot; operating costs are too high for CAS in our 3rd world Mogadishu/S.Sudan type environment;how can they tactically interface with 50 year old armour on the ground.
What does a fighter bomber built to destroy other 100 mn$ 5th generation aircraft do here?
Comments?

Guest Mon Feb 20 2012, 20:08

MWAURA wrote:Btw,somebody answer me this question. Exactly what purpose will those 5th generation su 33s serve? They're not enough in number to deter Egypt if the Nile issue ever goes hot; operating costs are too high for CAS in our 3rd world Mogadishu/S.Sudan type environment;how can they tactically interface with 50 year old armour on the ground.
What does a fighter bomber built to destroy other 100 mn$ 5th generation aircraft do here?
Comments?

Countries with a considerable lot at stake usually do not wait for shit to hit the fan in order to acquire potent weaponry.
Ante-up decisions are usually based on what intel outfits say - and most of what they say usually make sense - but none of it is for the common raia's eyes and ears!

On a slightly different note, do we still not have a snap of an eagle dressed in KAF roundel, fin flash & livery?
I saw some vids today but they weren't hi-res enough to make conclusive judgement.
Nevertheless, i still think the bright colored KAF roundel would'av stood out, unless ofcourse the KAF has adopted a low visibility one....considering the air superiority role of the bird.

Guest Mon Feb 20 2012, 21:26

fusebox wrote:
MWAURA wrote:Btw,somebody answer me this question. Exactly what purpose will those 5th generation su 33s serve? They're not enough in number to deter Egypt if the Nile issue ever goes hot; operating costs are too high for CAS in our 3rd world Mogadishu/S.Sudan type environment;how can they tactically interface with 50 year old armour on the ground.
What does a fighter bomber built to destroy other 100 mn$ 5th generation aircraft do here?
Comments?

Countries with a considerable lot at stake usually do not wait for shit to hit the fan in order to acquire potent weaponry.
Ante-up decisions are usually based on what intel outfits say - and most of what they say usually make sense - but none of it is for the common raia's eyes and ears!

On a slightly different note, do we still not have a snap of an eagle dressed in KAF roundel, fin flash & livery?
I saw some vids today but they weren't hi-res enough to make conclusive judgement.
Nevertheless, i still think the bright colored KAF roundel would'av stood out, unless ofcourse the KAF has adopted a low visibility one....considering the air superiority role of the bird.

@Mwaura- push out your Strategic-envelope beyond the present realities, factor in all possible politico-economic developments and resultant challenges in the expanded envelope, and what do you see? UPDF will operate a couple hundred of the T-80 by 2016 and upgrade + muscle out all her offensive facets within the same time-frame. Huge volumes of hydrocarbons will be flowing from Ethiopia, Somalia, GoSS, Kenya CAR, as well. You still have difficulties seeing how the Sukhois will fit into this part of the world?

@Fusebox - wacha hayo mambo ya picha za eagles, bana!! Bona, wewe Joo? The Eagles have no place is Somalia - Tigers II have 'point'. While AS gets a pasting, serious manenos are developing north of Kakuma.

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