REGIONAL DISCUSSIONS:

[quote="Sierra Kilo"]

Ole Sidai wrote:The preposition that AS can be used in the future is far off the mark. With pacification and creation of stable SOM government, legitimate governments will barter among themselves with no need for such militias in the Kenyana scenario. ON,wat do you think of this? Any future use this animal? In my view none after peace and prosperity begin to kick in.

US Army Strategy in Afghan a Total Failure

The continued view that Taliban must be annihilated is far more myopic than realistic looking at the time spent by US forces in Afghanistan, its such a long time but the results are not worthy of the initial investment.

Taliban’s relationship with Afghanistan’s is symbiotic and otherwise parasitic hence either finds each other strategic in value for their survival.

A non-violent, politically correct but religiously moderate Taliban is good for Afghanistan but continued aggression, occupation of territories, errs in military operations by US forces, a poor political landscape only continues to elicit emotions that do not suffice to make Afghan safe from insurgents.

Excerpt from SIN.........p=2161

To edge out insurgency in Somalia and bring sustainable peace in the country, a new breed of Al-Shabaab leadership, mainly moderates within the top rank fold must be assimilated to the Somalia political system.

This doctrine helps ease the feeling of isolation and defeat while at the same time helping those related to these militant leaders ascend to both political and economic power further weakening the socio-economic and political capacity and influence of the protagonists.

This strategy helps weaken and completely assimilate the former into a political system that shares and supports the values of the new country and espouse peace and stability politically.

Such a strategy might work in Somalia and shorten the military pain in Somalia; besides quicken the political process where democracy based on either ethno-religious values or socio-political values as the platform of choosing leaders and a government will prevail.

But its the role of intelligence organizations of countries closely tied to THE SOMALI GOVT that have to launch such a long shot/operation and liaise with a good military force to achieve the objective.

HokumA wrote:Hokum A is packing mad heat, as for the TZ issue only time will tell a few years ago SS and Eritrea were just mad wild theories which were only acceptable in the minds of those who dire dream.

I think the DC-3 is like my grandma I can buy her a new kitenge or a nice sweater and she will surely look good but she will always be my grandma nice, caring but will always need a hand when it comes to heavy lifting. Even if we were to upgrade the avionics or revamp the whole bird she can not meet our current and future needs unless AS is the only enemy we foresee ourselves facing going forward. As for the Brazilian birds I think only the Tucano impresses me only as a trainer, our boys are doing a fine job so she must have taught them well. Using the Brazilian birds for transport or electronic warfare is a futile attempt at countering the UG guys who are to me the small bro who keeps you awake at night with loud music and wears your cool leather jacket when you are away.

For a transporter the Y-9 might be the way to go, but this bird has been having small issues here and there but she will become of age very soon. The A400M would have been a better choice but for 130M Euros and production issues this bird is not worth it.

Why do you love smuggling in Uganda in whatever statements that you make? Are you sure UG is the 'small bro' who keeps yopu awake-just that? By the way, this so called small bro is actually the head of an operation called AMISOM in which you, a big bro is working under him okay. You were asked threads above this to desist from indulging in this Kenya verses Uganda talk but you are at it again.

aggressor one wrote:

HokumA wrote:Hokum A is packing mad heat, as for the TZ issue only time will tell a few years ago SS and Eritrea were just mad wild theories which were only acceptable in the minds of those who dire dream.

I think the DC-3 is like my grandma I can buy her a new kitenge or a nice sweater and she will surely look good but she will always be my grandma nice, caring but will always need a hand when it comes to heavy lifting. Even if we were to upgrade the avionics or revamp the whole bird she can not meet our current and future needs unless AS is the only enemy we foresee ourselves facing going forward. As for the Brazilian birds I think only the Tucano impresses me only as a trainer, our boys are doing a fine job so she must have taught them well. Using the Brazilian birds for transport or electronic warfare is a futile attempt at countering the UG guys who are to me the small bro who keeps you awake at night with loud music and wears your cool leather jacket when you are away.

For a transporter the Y-9 might be the way to go, but this bird has been having small issues here and there but she will become of age very soon. The A400M would have been a better choice but for 130M Euros and production issues this bird is not worth it.

Why do you love smuggling in Uganda in whatever statements that you make? Are you sure UG is the 'small bro' who keeps yopu awake-just that? By the way, this so called small bro is actually the head of an operation called AMISOM in which you, a big bro is working under him okay. You were asked threads above this to desist from indulging in this Kenya verses Uganda talk but you are at it again.

Before we are engulfed in this UG vs KE mashemeji maneo and wearing of cool leather jackets.... , Sudan has Just Declared full scale war on GOSS...the "poopy diapper" baby of UG and KE. Now things are thickening and me asks, is our baby about to be "Funzwad by Ulimwengu (Read Sudan) now that they did not listen to us his collective mothers?"

@blue you are right. We have a much bigger threat to the region in Sudan and however much we Ug and Ke try to keep distance, there is a potential that we shall be involved in one way or the other. For example, Kenya has just launched a very ambitious project (LAPPSET) that directly includes Sudan , so how will this play out in the event that the maneno gets full blown? Uganda at the moment has soldiers deployed in SS, so how will they play out if the war escalates? and lastly, do we have the assets to fend off the Sudanese army-especially the air assets?

aggressor one wrote:

HokumA wrote:Hokum A is packing mad heat, as for the TZ issue only time will tell a few years ago SS and Eritrea were just mad wild theories which were only acceptable in the minds of those who dire dream.

I think the DC-3 is like my grandma I can buy her a new kitenge or a nice sweater and she will surely look good but she will always be my grandma nice, caring but will always need a hand when it comes to heavy lifting. Even if we were to upgrade the avionics or revamp the whole bird she can not meet our current and future needs unless AS is the only enemy we foresee ourselves facing going forward. As for the Brazilian birds I think only the Tucano impresses me only as a trainer, our boys are doing a fine job so she must have taught them well. Using the Brazilian birds for transport or electronic warfare is a futile attempt at countering the UG guys who are to me the small bro who keeps you awake at night with loud music and wears your cool leather jacket when you are away.

For a transporter the Y-9 might be the way to go, but this bird has been having small issues here and there but she will become of age very soon. The A400M would have been a better choice but for 130M Euros and production issues this bird is not worth it.

Why do you love smuggling in Uganda in whatever statements that you make? Are you sure UG is the 'small bro' who keeps yopu awake-just that? By the way, this so called small bro is actually the head of an operation called AMISOM in which you, a big bro is working under him okay. You were asked threads above this to desist from indulging in this Kenya verses Uganda talk but you are at it again.

Mukwano gwange njangu mpora mpora, I don't mean to belittle UG or even indulge in a KE vs UG fire fight we have better use for such ammo I think. My point is UG is to KE as Germany is to France we are friends brothers even but we have our difference and those can't be wished away. When UG gets SU-30's we wonder why, so we go out there and get or try to get F-15/16/F-1 whichever comes first, military expenditure is dictated by prevailing threats actual or perceived. I used UG as an example (if one can say so) because you have the SU-30 and I have a feeling that upgrading the DC-3 might not help as much whether we deploy it as transporter, AWACS or even for electronic warfare. SU's have very good radar, weapon and other avionic systems so when one is tasked with the responsibility to make a decision between new hardware or upgrading he/she must have a threat to mitigate in mind and I think UG's air superiority is a good enough starting point as long as you can keep them 'birds' away from those birds .

aggressor one wrote:@blue you are right. We have a much bigger threat to the region in Sudan and however much we Ug and Ke try to keep distance, there is a potential that we shall be involved in one way or the other. For example, Kenya has just launched a very ambitious project (LAPPSET) that directly includes Sudan , so how will this play out in the event that the maneno gets full blown? Uganda at the moment has soldiers deployed in SS, so how will they play out if the war escalates? and lastly, do we have the assets to fend off the Sudanese army-especially the air assets?

Whatever happens in the Sudans, war must not break out otherwise my dreams as a Kenyana citizen may just vanish. I am very worried for our LAPPSET project since it was planned with SS in mind...this mtoto of ours should be told to be calm with neighbours up north for the ext 25 years as we build our collective economy, and after 25 years, we will be so far advanced economically and otherwise we will not need to engage in wars...we will have much more to loose then....

HokumA wrote:Mukwano gwange njangu mpora mpora, I don't mean to belittle UG or even indulge in a KE vs UG fire fight we have better use for such ammo I think.

HokumA, welcome aboard. I can tell from your Luganda you spent some time this side (and probably messed around with our sisters). Quite a menacing avatar you have there too.

On the GoSS issue, I think this time around we need to let them make mistakes, and hope they learn from them. South Sudan is our baby, and as any good parent knows, you save yourself a lot of time and trouble by allowing the baby to learn that fire burns. What better way to instill that lesson than by allowing the baby to touch the lamp.

South Sudan got a start any new nation would die for - oil wealth, a small population on rich arable land, and massive international goodwill. Problem is that they got greedy. That is not to say that they don't have legitimate claims to the Abyei and Heglig areas.

But sometimes the economic growth that almost always follows peace, is better than any natural resource. Kenyans, do I have a witness there?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2130707/U-S-officials-trying-confirm-Somali-reports-American-terror-leader-beheaded.html

I find this interesting direction of events. WHO CAN CONFIRM TO THE WORLD? If true, it separates foreign from indigenous. As the final showdown looms, it is important to propagate dialogue, political clouts and modernization. KDF clearly got this done in the pacified areas. The use of terror to propagate 4th century ideology will not work in the modern society. Our brothers need highways like we do, schools, modern medicine, communications and so on. They need to feed themselves and compete with civilized world. Stand up for your rights and future SOM. AS is wrong for your country and entire region!!!

(For some *'&%$#?*"%!!!! reason, my replies are not displaying correctly. This is the best I can do.)

We have some very switched-on technocrats who have been more-or-less running our Government's foreign and economic policies for the last 10, 15 years. They have a profound understanding of matters global and international and have adapted to the winds of change accordingly. Their efforts are now yielding dividends. Kudos to them.

The moot point, therefore, is not whether "Government" has chosen to lean East or West. We can very well lean strongly to the East without burning our bridges with the West. That would be preposterous. At this point in time, it would be economic and political suicide. Yet, do not read philanthropy in the East's courtship. They want our goodies just as badly as the West, they're just offering better terms. But they won't pick up the pieces if we come crashing down. They'll simply turn to the next most viable option. We're on our own.

The point is why. The East is primarily interested in trade and keeps its nose out of the more "unhygienic" controversies Government has found itself wallowing in. They don't ask "condescending" questions or raise "undignified" issues regarding governance, corruption, the rule of law, ICC, etc. Democracy. The West, however, is rather eager to plaster these unhygienic issues across every billboard, for leverage or whatever reason, a rather awkward situation at a time when Government is seeking to manufacture a so-called legacy. Government did not refuse Her Majesty's invitation because it was to be a "non-ceremonial guest," the whole thing being "beneath it's dignity." And certainly not because of the fact that China is a far better trading partner. Attempting to sell such inanity to us demonstrates the contempt Government has for Wanjiku. That's about as much as I'm willing to say.
_______________________________________

There can, of course, be absolutely no collusion with Al Shabaab. Whatsoever. From my selfish perspective alone, they are responsible for the deaths of dozens of Kenyan soldiers and civilians. Their bosom buddies are responsible for a bombing campaign that has left hundreds of Kenyan wananchi dead over the course of 15-or-so years. The mere concept is inconceivable and I will personally and gleefully supervise the excruciatingly painful and intolerably prolonged demise of anyone attempting it.

No, this animal must put be down mercilessly. It will invariably spawn more radical offspring and eventually turn on any master.

Then there's the issue of whether we want to build Kenyana on a foundation of surreptitious, underhand and myopic actions or whether it's better to take the longer and harder route of thrashing things out to everyone's satisfaction. Thereby gaining mutual trust and respect. "We do these things not because they are easy, but because they are hard," said one long-dead politician.

Besides the obvious moral and philosophical objections, AS is unlikely to exist a couple of years down the line, barring an even more hideous ideological mutation, and if it does, we'll most probably be fighting them.


[quote="chui"] https://www.youtube.com/v/Z--EDBrFLQ0
[quote="ole Nkarei"]
[quote="Ole Sidai"]
The preposition that AS can be used in the future is far off the mark. With pacification and creation of stable SOM government, legitimate governments will barter among themselves with no need for such militias in the Kenyana scenario. ON,wat do you think of this? Any future use this animal? In my view none after peace and prosperity begin to kick in.

@Ole Sidai - I hear you, and I would love to share the developing hypothesis to this query, but not before Vitruvian weighs in with his bit. And a bit more from the others too.

Is it real-politiks is what drives international relationships, and not ideology nor even morality?

On point dear sir, the real-politik of Kenyana is ruffling some european feathers! ;) Watch the clip.[/quote]

@V I agreee with you that there is no cause to rear the Al-kebabs. Like you rightfully question of what use can they be in the future. Absolutely none with the added danger that they could turn on their master. A good example would be the brains behind the intelligence services of the paks. Being in bed with zealots has only caused their own country to be infected with AIDS - if you catch my drift.

However one area I disagree with you though I laud you for your efforts is the idea that an honest open relationship can help the future of the EA nations. Respectfully I disagree with you here, realpolitk is exactly that, there is no room for idealism only cold hard calculated actions.

For example and this is only pure speculation and hypothesis - take a look at the issues is Sudan.
Who has the most to benefit from any friction between the north and south. The more they go at it with each other the more the South falls into the lap of KE. Additionally a strong and independent SS that is friends with NS is possibly the worst outcome for KE and LAPSET you can envision. Far more useful to KE is an SS that through ideology and even better yet outright enmity with NS is forced to ship its black gold through KE.
Which brings us to the fields that internationally are demarcated as belonging to NS. Well if SS can take and hold these fields I'll give you three chances to guess where this extra 50% of black stuff is gonna get shipped through. Bet it will only take you one guess I think we are misreading the SS's on this forum. Something/Someone emboldened them to this action. Question is who?

Finally not to leave our UG cuz's out of the post since it is now fashionable to somehow link the UG's with everything. How are they seeing this SS/NS issue play out. Are they by-standers horrified at being somehow outsmarted or are they part of the stew and deeply involved......

Watch this channel. Analyst will you be morphing some of the thoughts in this post into a article

When the CPA was signed we went back home pulled the table closer to our favorite chair mounted our feet on it, popped a cold Tusker and switched on the TV we had to relive the moments they were so sublime. Soon after there was fighting but we didn’t take keen interest after all those were just skirmishes the sea is never calm yet that doesn’t keep the ships way. More often than not we blamed the North they had the big guns and the motive to attack, to us our child SS was to young too fragile to engage but we should have known better.

I recently watched a movie set in an isolated Island home to one ‘salvage’ African and a missionary come slave master. The missionary was kind enough to pay the African slave 2 coins each month for working for him, one day the slave asked the master “if you were to sell this Island how much would it cost” the master gladly answered “1,500 coins”. Early the next morning the slave woke up and went to bask in the sun the master came out of the house angry because the slave had not made breakfast. When the master confronted the slave the slave snatched his gun from him, gave him 1,500 coins part of the money he had earned over the last two years then aimed the gun at his former boss and ordered him to make him a cup of coffee “two sugars” he shouted.

The North slaved the South for many years but overtime the South learnt a few things about how to acquire money/arms/resources and will to pay for the Island which it owned in the first place. We will blame SS if and when the two Sudans get at it again but SS is just retaking the Island but be warned this time round the stakes are too high to an extent that if and when it happens it might make that DRC drama look like a storm in a cup of tea.

In collusion I think we the world are to blame for any future conflict in the Sudans because we have armed them, trained them and given them the confidence to match to the battle fronts. The CPA ended the war but didn’t deter the fighting it went on without a glitch, it’s like stopping a car but your spinners keep rolling the sound of guns never stopped, solders never left the fronts, only the generals came home to claim the price. War is protracted fighting is sporadic. We assumed that helping end the war was the moral thing to do we thought and with good reasons that war was killing people but we overlooked the most basic aspect of any conflict the ‘cause’.

To solve the Sudan manenos forever we must denounce moral narcissism this need to provide solutions just because they make us feel better about ourselves. This narcissistic morality drives us into formulating half-baked solutions like let’s have a referendum in SS minus Abyei and other areas those we will think about on a future date haven’t the Kashmr mess taught us anything, such a decision was not going to work but we felt better because we left Naivasha with inked papers a trophy to show the world. My preferred solution is lets go back in time to the point where all this started because only there will we find the true answer to the question “what ills the Sudans?”.

Spartan wrote:

HokumA wrote:Mukwano gwange njangu mpora mpora, I don't mean to belittle UG or even indulge in a KE vs UG fire fight we have better use for such ammo I think.

HokumA, welcome aboard. I can tell from your Luganda you spent some time this side (and probably messed around with our sisters). Quite a menacing avatar you have there too.

M7 was my president for 5 years before I defected to KE never looked back, as for 'your sisters' I can say that this Kenyana women need to visit Mbalala or Masaka and see what it means to be a woman.

Doggonnit, Vitruvian!! Full clip on full-Auto!! You must not go away, mate.

IMHO - @Ned Starks Head pins this Sudan maneno down correctly, that Real-Politiks is just that – cold, hard, realistic pragmatism, never purist idealism. Particularly in this age empty of any defining ideologies. And that, Black Shark, is what drove the CPA, for everyone, including the SLPA – (i)a general acceptance that some concordance was possible and achievable, (ii) general acceptance that there were areas without immediate agreement, (iii) a general acceptance that these disagreements, even though cohabiting with agreement, intonate some some general progress on which to build continued efforts to find concordance on those disagreements. The basic objective is an absence of Martial Contact resultant from these disagreements (which only exacerbates the disagreements, locking both parties in the history of the disagreements) and the possibility of civilized practical negotiations on the disagreements. By whatever measure, the CPA was an incredible feat, magical, genius – with an inherent mechanisms (time-lines, oversight/facilitation, avenues, format / rules of engagement, etc) for (a) continued discussions / negotiations on the pending areas of disagreement, (b) resolution of possible conflict, while both warring States diverted useful energies on their individual long delayed socio-economic and political programs. Historical entitlements (of both Sudans) is not real-politiks; hell, the former slaves that fought to continue their servitude post-emancipation may have been driven by some weird historical entitlement after centuries of knowing nothing else.

Essentially this senseless illogical Sudan disagreement is not to our Kenyana Script. Because in none of the existing disagreement between GoSS and GOS is there real urgency to reach resolution – someone else is pulling Kiir’s chain, probably the very same who fished John Galang out from the Academia, and financed him, with the insidious objective of either dismembering Sudan or maintaining the thirty years of low-grade conflict in the Sudan. That is not in the interest of anyone in Kenyana, least of all GoK.

It is for these reasons also that the closure of OLN /AMISOM must be driven by realistic and pragmatic considerations of the Strategic Interests of this region – and not the purist sanctimony of known eternal forces outside the region driven by their own unique interests. Consensus is building in IGAD/EAC for an inclusive political process in Somalia as the pragmatic Pillar for our collective security and advancement –the two Galowe Conferences in Somalia developed definitions of a decentralized Confederacy that recognized the reality of Somalia’s existing fault lines in territory and ideology (Somaliland, Puntland, Azania, Al-kebab (without AlQaeda), etc). And like Ole Sidai pointed out, a bloodbath to recover real-estate in Somalia, bearing in mind the acutely reflected demographics in Kenya and Ethiopia, panders to Johnny’s interests but not our Strategic Interests going forth. It is the Somali Nation we must endear ourselves to, not their real-estate. That is realism. After ten years NATO disengages next year from Afghanistan and desperate to get discussions going with the Taliban / AQ - are there clearly visible positive justifications from their engagement in Afghanistan?

Ned Starks Head wrote:

Watch this channel. Analyst will you be morphing some of the thoughts in this post into a article

Ned...of course buddy!!!

On the Al-Shabaab issue, i sincerely feel it will be such a bloody and rough ride to peace and stability in Somalia without moderate Al-Shabaab in the Somali politics...however my doctrine is 'Never negotiate with terrorists..!'

About South Sudan...events have played out quite as expected. The war was orchestrated by two factors, 'exhibit capacity to defend your territory and resources' and two, lets have the borders mapped out and ship your oil without hitches'.......

South Sudan has done well flexing its defense capability and promised its masters that if we could have the right defense capacity...we can be lethal........Now that done...lets use diplomacy and get the principal objective achieved....map out the borders and lets get oil shipped along your great lands and make money....

[quote="HokumA"][quote="aggressor one"]

HokumA wrote:Hokum A is packing mad heat, as for the TZ issue only time will tell a few years ago SS and Eritrea were just mad wild theories which were only acceptable in the minds of those who dire dream.

I think the DC-3 is like my grandma I can buy her a new kitenge or a nice sweater and she will surely look good but she will always be my grandma nice, caring but will always need a hand when it comes to heavy lifting. Even if we were to upgrade the avionics or revamp the whole bird she can not meet our current and future needs unless AS is the only enemy we foresee ourselves facing going forward. As for the Brazilian birds I think only the Tucano impresses me only as a trainer, our boys are doing a fine job so she must have taught them well. Using the Brazilian birds for transport or electronic warfare is a futile attempt at countering the UG guys who are to me the small bro who keeps you awake at night with loud music and wears your cool leather jacket when you are away.

Mukwano gwange njangu mpora mpora, I don't mean to belittle UG or even indulge in a KE vs UG fire fight we have better use for such ammo I think. My point is UG is to KE as Germany is to France we are friends brothers even but we have our difference and those can't be wished away. When UG gets SU-30's we wonder why, so we go out there and get or try to get F-15/16/F-1 whichever comes first, military expenditure is dictated by prevailing threats actual or perceived. I used UG as an example (if one can say so) because you have the SU-30 and I have a feeling that upgrading the DC-3 might not help as much whether we deploy it as transporter, AWACS or even for electronic warfare. SU's have very good radar, weapon and other avionic systems so when one is tasked with the responsibility to make a decision between new hardware or upgrading he/she must have a threat to mitigate in mind and I think UG's air superiority is a good enough starting point as long as you can keep them 'birds' away from those birds .

But you're grandmother will be timeless and that is what the DC-3(BT-67) would offer a timeless bird that could take off in barren airstrips and patrol the sea's then land again. Or be turned into a Gunship that would take off in a remote airstip fly into the jungles and turn the area into a huge flaming pit. But as i now think about it such a plane would not be useful in kenya but in UG they want to hunt Kony or those DRC factions Hiding in the forests then this would be the plane for them Low-cost operations, Could be armed to the teeth, cargo transport, troop transport, could operate in barren, remote air strips etc Finding and elimanting those targets would be a reilef for M7 if he had such a plane in his inventory. The Brazilian AWACS(maritime patrol) would be mainly used for offshore duties, like minesweeper, sub-sweeper etc they are also armed with smart torpedoes to destroy enemy subs.





@Nedstarks whoops i didnt mean Awacs meant MP(Maritime Patrol aircraft)

This is the plane i was talking about for our air force/navy

ole Nkarei wrote:
Essentially this senseless illogical Sudan disagreement is not to our Kenyana Script. Because in none of the existing disagreement between GoSS and GOS is there real urgency to reach resolution – someone else is pulling Kiir’s chain, probably the very same who fished John Galang out from the Academia, and financed him, with the insidious objective of either dismembering Sudan or maintaining the thirty years of low-grade conflict in the Sudan. That is not in the interest of anyone in Kenyana, least of all GoK.

@OLN - I'm not completely clear on your take on this. I think that the GOS/GOSS disagreement while not to the Kenyana script is actually in someones interests if you see the convoluted thinking.
And one thing I have to say is I have a healthy respect for the political acumen of the KE's that actually have a hand on/in stuff like this - but enough with the conspiracies - there are no aliens

@Spartan I have been meaning to ask you this for a while - are you a student of Hobbes. I have noticed you pepper your posts with some very Hobbseian concepts/statements. Or is this a staff college curriculum thing?

@Cylon - ermmmm AWACS for sub hunting....what the?? I think your radar is a little bit off with that statement - might want to recalibarate before you get speared by Spartan or AG1 on that one.

@Ned Starks Head - Categorically, she is not pregnant by EAC/IGAD.

Whatever crumbs that would fall off this table are incomparable to the opportunity cost for them. Probably we could be blamed by exposing the young girl to the lecherous mobsters.

Considering the peace dividend accruing to EAC/IGAD, and also our speculative competitors outside Kenyana and alongside them the originators and financiers of the Galang Movement, suggestions of our involvement in this madness is akin to playing chess against oneself.

Simply, it is not our baby.

GoSS should have avoided an all-out war with their better armed/positioned northern neighbour. Nevertheless, they have gone in but will, no doubt, come out wiser.

Of course, whoever said that 'if you want your children to learn how to wash dishes you must be prepared to have some broken dishes' was spot on. Those who midwived SS and have been supporting it as it took baby steps cannot keep holding the baby's hand forever. Baby may never learn to stand on his own and walk. There will be stumbles and falls before he masters the art of walking.

When SS returns to Juba with a bloodied nose they will be smarter in future.

ole Nkarei wrote:@Ned Starks Head - Categorically, she is not pregnant by EAC/IGAD.

Whatever crumbs that would fall off this table are incomparable to the opportunity cost for them. Probably we could be blamed by exposing the young girl to the lecherous mobsters.

Considering the peace dividend accruing to EAC/IGAD, and also our speculative competitors outside Kenyana and alongside them the originators and financiers of the Galang Movement, suggestions of our involvement in this madness is akin to playing chess against oneself.

Simply, it is not our baby.

Where did the tweeting Major go? Busy on the frontlines?
Saw this report:



"Military jets have on Tuesday targeted the southern Somali Airport of Kismayu, 500 Km south of Mogadishu and an Al-Shabab stronghold, as Kenyan and Somali government forces prepare to attack the town

...jets flew from a warship in the nearby coast hit several missiles on the main airport, causing damages of the airport’s facilities.

“First, the warplanes flew past and shortly after they dropped huge shells on the airport, came and then dropped another shells...”

The identity of the jet has not been confirmed..."

more at http://www.keydmedia.net

Has Afmadow fallen already?

mogen wrote:GoSS would have better to avoid an all-out war with their better armed/positioned northern neighbour. They have gone in nevertheless but will no doubt come out wiser.

It has been said that: 'if you want your children to learn how to wash dishes you must be prepared to have some broken dishes'. Those who midwived SS and have been supporting it as it takes baby steps cannot keep holding the baby's hand if baby has to learn to walk. There will be stumbles and falls before mastering the art of walking.

When they return home with a bloodied nose they will be smarter in future.

ole Nkarei wrote:@Ned Starks Head - Categorically, she is not pregnant by EAC/IGAD.

Whatever crumbs that would fall off this table are incomparable to the opportunity cost for them. Probably we could be blamed by exposing the young girl to the lecherous mobsters.

Considering the peace dividend accruing to EAC/IGAD, and also our speculative competitors outside Kenyana and alongside them the originators and financiers of the Galang Movement, suggestions of our involvement in this madness is akin to playing chess against oneself.

Simply, it is not our baby.

I dont think Goss is losing here something must have emboldened them to want all out war( you just dont start a war unless you have a lion to back you up) i feel that Sammy had a hand in play in here they will be offering help for the SPLA on standby this is a long shot but i think American Drones must be already flying in this hot zone armed to help out so they could even the odds. They want Albashir gone just like Gaddafi the ICC and others are clamoring for his head. When you read this Sudanese jets and tanks are being assembled to retake Helgig and more american C-130s Gunships and drones are on Standby to aid SPLA who are mobilizing air defense and T-72 to come and help out.


Also found this today looks like Sammy wants to counter Eastern influence in Africa by creating American jobs http://allafrica.com/download/resource/main/main/idatcs/00031038:4d538b8cd3110b73568ecf9baf3e372a.pdf

Agreed.

SS is probably not alone and supporters outside Kenyana are more likely. Who knows, even the chosen tribe may be in it. Al Bashir appears to have been slow in unleashing his superior firepower in spite of the disturbing provocation and angry parliament in Khartoum. He can cause great havoc if he unleashed the full force of his arsenal. But he is sort of holding back. May be he knows something that others may not know.

There is the possibility of Sammy involvement in the whole Abyei brouhaha. I know for a fact a number of their specops volunteered during the war and took quite a few KIA as well according to at least 2 SPLA officers.
There are still border issues and Abyei may very well be part of the South but the real issue IMO is the weight of over a century of genuine grievances suffered by the South that will define the entire relationship. From slave trading/cattle raiding/deliberate marginalisation and impoverishment sometimes I think the best way would be a DMZ like the 2 Koreas-an armed peace.
What says EAU?

Ok Head of KDF procurement wannabes; you have given the site a good shopping list for KDF. lads if you continue flooding the site with new items each time, I am telling you, KDF will get confused and will end up buying none. You see what happened; before KDF was contemplating about 35 F-15 then it dropped to 8 F-16 (a model digit up, but a quality down) now they are talking of the 6 KFir mirages all thanks to you guys.
I will summaries the proposals/list for the sake of space and time to discuses better issues on the forum. So after the below list lets move on and discuses pressing issues.

the required persons to follow and please feel free to contact those members for detail elaboration.

KDF-AMRY = Nkarei. Your requirements are simple and straight forward. As from the wannabes,order your men to go to Afmadow and flatten all houses with the next fortnight then proceed to kismayo and do the same. And please make sure again I stress out make sure to assassinate anyone moving aimless along the streets or trying to plant sukuma weeki or seeling miraa (a disguise) along the road. It so simple I don’t know what you’re waiting of?

KDF-AF = Risasi you my man have very long list of things to do. fly around old embakasi and look for what was the name of that aircraft again …ya DC-3, take it to fundi Jua kali and installs several G3s and LMGs on each side and waala … a Gunship. don’t forget to fit one DC-3 with a tank and get a long garden hose(on offer during rain seasons) from Nakumatt ….an aerial tanker you have. After that fly to brazil and get a Counter insurgency propeller aircraft and AWACS (Airborne Warning and Control System) that can search for submarines.??????

KDF-NAVY send some guys to Europe. The EU community is in financial crises, as one suggested. Tell them your will to exchange beautiful flowers and Agri-products from Kenya with Nuclear Subs, frigates etc p/s don,t forget Russia there some redundant good aircraft carries.

And don,t forget to dress your grand mothers with new clothes…gosh
Have I summarized it fair and square? any thing else before we move forward.

For crying out aloud with out mention names …How old are you guys (Head of KDF procurement wannabes)?????

Can were return sanity and talk about OLN,AMISOM and the GoSS issues?
And tell that Ngamia oil drilling animal, to drill that oil faster.

Flying Crane wrote:Ok Head of KDF procurement wannabes; you have given the site a good shopping list for KDF. lads if you continue flooding the site with new items each time, I am telling you, KDF will get confused and will end up buying none. You see what happened; before KDF was contemplating about 35 F-15 then it dropped to 8 F-16 (a model digit up, but a quality down) now they are talking of the 6 KFir mirages all thanks to you guys.
I will summaries the proposals/list for the sake of space and time to discuses better issues on the forum. So after the below list lets move on and discuses pressing issues.

the required persons to follow and please feel free to contact those members for detail elaboration.

KDF-AMRY = Nkarei. Your requirements are simple and straight forward. As from the wannabes,order your men to go to Afmadow and flatten all houses with the next fortnight then proceed to kismayo and do the same. And please make sure again I stress out make sure to assassinate anyone moving aimless along the streets or trying to plant sukuma weeki or seeling miraa (a disguise) along the road. It so simple I don’t know what you’re waiting of?

KDF-AF = Risasi you my man have very long list of things to do. fly around old embakasi and look for what was the name of that aircraft again …ya DC-3, take it to fundi Jua kali and installs several G3s and LMGs on each side and waala … a Gunship. don’t forget to fit one DC-3 with a tank and get a long garden hose(on offer during rain seasons) from Nakumatt ….an aerial tanker you have. After that fly to brazil and get a Counter insurgency propeller aircraft and AWACS (Airborne Warning and Control System) that can search for submarines.??????

KDF-NAVY send some guys to Europe. The EU community is in financial crises, as one suggested. Tell them your will to exchange beautiful flowers and Agri-products from Kenya with Nuclear Subs, frigates etc p/s don,t forget Russia there some redundant good aircraft carries.

And don,t forget to dress your grand mothers with new clothes…gosh
Have I summarized it fair and square? any thing else before we move forward.

For crying out aloud with out mention names …How old are you guys (Head of KDF procurement wannabes)?????

Can were return sanity and talk about OLN,AMISOM and the GoSS issues?
And tell that Ngamia oil drilling animal, to drill that oil faster.

So what are you exactly saying Mr Crane? I don't quite get you, but you seem bored about something. It is the Kenyan fighter jets right? Well forget it. It will be the F-15 and nothing else. The Mirage(Rafale?) and the F-16 are just a creation. Let's put that debate to rest and move on. With time we will come to appreciate what we have been saying all along. Anyhow wellcome back. You have been AWOL.

HokumA wrote:

Spartan wrote:

HokumA wrote:Mukwano gwange njangu mpora mpora, I don't mean to belittle UG or even indulge in a KE vs UG fire fight we have better use for such ammo I think.

HokumA, welcome aboard. I can tell from your Luganda you spent some time this side (and probably messed around with our sisters). Quite a menacing avatar you have there too.

Ok Head of KDF procurement wannabes; you have given the site a good
shopping list for KDF. lads if you continue flooding the site with new
items each time, I am telling you, KDF will get confused and will end up
buying none. You see what happened; before KDF was contemplating about
35 F-15 then it dropped to 8 F-16 (a model digit up, but a quality down)
now they are talking of the 6 KFir mirages all thanks to you guys.
I
will summaries the proposals/list for the sake of space and time to
discuses better issues on the forum. So after the below list lets move
on and discuses pressing issues.

the required persons to follow and please feel free to contact those members for detail elaboration.

KDF-AMRY
= Nkarei. Your requirements are simple and straight forward. As from
the wannabes,order your men to go to Afmadow and flatten all houses with
the next fortnight then proceed to kismayo and do the same. And please
make sure again I stress out make sure to assassinate anyone moving
aimless along the streets or trying to plant sukuma weeki or seeling
miraa (a disguise) along the road. It so simple I don’t know what you’re
waiting of?

KDF-AF = Risasi you my man have very long list of
things to do. fly around old embakasi and look for what was the name of
that aircraft again …ya DC-3, take it to fundi Jua kali and installs
several G3s and LMGs on each side and waala … a Gunship. don’t forget to
fit one DC-3 with a tank and get a long garden hose(on offer during
rain seasons) from Nakumatt ….an aerial tanker you have. After that fly
to brazil and get a Counter insurgency propeller aircraft and AWACS
(Airborne Warning and Control System) that can search for
submarines.??????

KDF-NAVY send some guys to Europe. The EU
community is in financial crises, as one suggested. Tell them your will
to exchange beautiful flowers and Agri-products from Kenya with Nuclear
Subs, frigates etc p/s don,t forget Russia there some redundant good
aircraft carries.

And don,t forget to dress your grand mothers with new clothes…gosh
Have I summarized it fair and square? any thing else before we move forward.

For crying out aloud with out mention names …How old are you guys (Head of KDF procurement wannabes)?????

There's smth you may not realise. Kenyan arms procurement is a continuous demand driven process informed by the tactical realities of Kenyana. Since this blog began 2 years ago the KN has received 2 gunboats,the aircav has introduced 4 new models and the armour have 80+ new BRDMs. That,by any standard is HEAVY METAL! This site discusses such purchases along with potential usage of said equipment-what's the problem?

M7 was my president for 5 years before I defected to KE never looked back, as for 'your sisters' I can say that this Kenyana women need to visit Mbalala or Masaka and see what it means to be a woman.

Yyyyyeahhh,hokumA,you speak the truth!! If I could I'd give you a rep point.

I think this market is approaching it's capacity for madmen.
Nway @blog DC-3 ziko mbili pekee in Kenya. Mombasa Air Services and Missionary Air Fellowship being the ONLY opperators of that unsensible aircraft.
@ON, Farmajo, Gandhi...nani ni nani? is this the reason for the Chai in Kismayu delay? we don't how to give what to who?

...Going under

Ok Head of KDF procurement wannabes; you have given the site a good
shopping list for KDF. lads if you continue flooding the site with new
items each time, I am telling you, KDF will get confused and will end up
buying none. You see what happened; before KDF was contemplating about
35 F-15 then it dropped to 8 F-16 (a model digit up, but a quality down)
now they are talking of the 6 KFir mirages all thanks to you guys.
I
will summaries the proposals/list for the sake of space and time to
discuses better issues on the forum. So after the below list lets move
on and discuses pressing issues.

the required persons to follow and please feel free to contact those members for detail elaboration.

KDF-AMRY
= Nkarei. Your requirements are simple and straight forward. As from
the wannabes,order your men to go to Afmadow and flatten all houses with
the next fortnight then proceed to kismayo and do the same. And please
make sure again I stress out make sure to assassinate anyone moving
aimless along the streets or trying to plant sukuma weeki or seeling
miraa (a disguise) along the road. It so simple I don’t know what you’re
waiting of?

KDF-AF = Risasi you my man have very long list of
things to do. fly around old embakasi and look for what was the name of
that aircraft again …ya DC-3, take it to fundi Jua kali and installs
several G3s and LMGs on each side and waala … a Gunship. don’t forget
to fit one DC-3 with a tank and get a long garden hose(on offer during
rain seasons) from Nakumatt ….an aerial tanker you have. After that fly
to brazil and get a Counter insurgency propeller aircraft and AWACS
(Airborne Warning and Control System) that can search for
submarines.??????

KDF-NAVY send some guys to Europe. The EU
community is in financial crises, as one suggested. Tell them your will
to exchange beautiful flowers and Agri-products from Kenya with Nuclear
Subs, frigates etc p/s don,t forget Russia there some redundant good
aircraft carries.

And don,t forget to dress your grand mothers with new clothes…gosh
Have I summarized it fair and square? any thing else before we move forward.

For crying out aloud with out mention names …How old are you guys (Head of KDF procurement wannabes)?????

Can were return sanity and talk about OLN,AMISOM and the GoSS issues?
And tell that Ngamia oil drilling animal, to drill that oil faster.

Oops! How did that happen? Anyway,there's smth you may not realise. This is a military issues blog. Obviously therefore Kenya's recent and potential arms procurement will make up much of the threads. Since this site started the KN has added 2 gunboats,with a possible used Med. corvette on the way,the aircav has 4 new models,the armour had added a brigade worth of BRDMs and f-15s are on the way,with talk of transports like ex-Israeli c-130s. What else would you have us discuss? Personally I draw the line at star wars bs in Kenyana but potential employment of weapons systems will make up much of the material here-why is this a problem?
You can simply chose not to respond btw, a normal response on cyberspace. Personally I've said my piece on fixed wing gunships and have nothing to add.

Flying Crane wrote:Ok Head of KDF procurement wannabes; you have given the site a good shopping list for KDF. lads if you continue flooding the site with new items each time, I am telling you, KDF will get confused and will end up buying none. You see what happened; before KDF was contemplating about 35 F-15 then it dropped to 8 F-16 (a model digit up, but a quality down) now they are talking of the 6 KFir mirages all thanks to you guys.
I will summaries the proposals/list for the sake of space and time to discuses better issues on the forum. So after the below list lets move on and discuses pressing issues.

the required persons to follow and please feel free to contact those members for detail elaboration.

KDF-AMRY = Nkarei. Your requirements are simple and straight forward. As from the wannabes,order your men to go to Afmadow and flatten all houses with the next fortnight then proceed to kismayo and do the same. And please make sure again I stress out make sure to assassinate anyone moving aimless along the streets or trying to plant sukuma weeki or seeling miraa (a disguise) along the road. It so simple I don’t know what you’re waiting of?

KDF-AF = Risasi you my man have very long list of things to do. fly around old embakasi and look for what was the name of that aircraft again …ya DC-3, take it to fundi Jua kali and installs several G3s and LMGs on each side and waala … a Gunship. don’t forget to fit one DC-3 with a tank and get a long garden hose(on offer during rain seasons) from Nakumatt ….an aerial tanker you have. After that fly to brazil and get a Counter insurgency propeller aircraft and AWACS (Airborne Warning and Control System) that can search for submarines.??????

KDF-NAVY send some guys to Europe. The EU community is in financial crises, as one suggested. Tell them your will to exchange beautiful flowers and Agri-products from Kenya with Nuclear Subs, frigates etc p/s don,t forget Russia there some redundant good aircraft carries.

And don,t forget to dress your grand mothers with new clothes…gosh
Have I summarized it fair and square? any thing else before we move forward.

For crying out aloud with out mention names …How old are you guys (Head of KDF procurement wannabes)?????

Can were return sanity and talk about OLN,AMISOM and the GoSS issues?
And tell that Ngamia oil drilling animal, to drill that oil faster.

So what do you have to offer ? The whole purpose of this site is for each one of us to contribute to a debate. If you think that what is being debated feel free to ignore the posts and post when you see something substantial to post about. Now some of us might not be in Uniform or have been, and we might need guidance when it comes to Military Products, but we dont need guidance when it comes to posting our thoughts. They are only thoughts for goodness sake ! Dont try and belittle anyone here just because you know how to aim a rifle. If you think some issues are more important to tlk about, go ahead and talk about them and we will do our best to discuss them.

mbs wrote:

Flying Crane wrote:Ok Head of KDF procurement wannabes; you have given the site a good shopping list for KDF. lads if you continue flooding the site with new items each time, I am telling you, KDF will get confused and will end up buying none. You see what happened; before KDF was contemplating about 35 F-15 then it dropped to 8 F-16 (a model digit up, but a quality down) now they are talking of the 6 KFir mirages all thanks to you guys.
I will summaries the proposals/list for the sake of space and time to discuses better issues on the forum. So after the below list lets move on and discuses pressing issues.

the required persons to follow and please feel free to contact those members for detail elaboration.

KDF-AMRY = Nkarei. Your requirements are simple and straight forward. As from the wannabes,order your men to go to Afmadow and flatten all houses with the next fortnight then proceed to kismayo and do the same. And please make sure again I stress out make sure to assassinate anyone moving aimless along the streets or trying to plant sukuma weeki or seeling miraa (a disguise) along the road. It so simple I don’t know what you’re waiting of?

KDF-AF = Risasi you my man have very long list of things to do. fly around old embakasi and look for what was the name of that aircraft again …ya DC-3, take it to fundi Jua kali and installs several G3s and LMGs on each side and waala … a Gunship. don’t forget to fit one DC-3 with a tank and get a long garden hose(on offer during rain seasons) from Nakumatt ….an aerial tanker you have. After that fly to brazil and get a Counter insurgency propeller aircraft and AWACS (Airborne Warning and Control System) that can search for submarines.??????

KDF-NAVY send some guys to Europe. The EU community is in financial crises, as one suggested. Tell them your will to exchange beautiful flowers and Agri-products from Kenya with Nuclear Subs, frigates etc p/s don,t forget Russia there some redundant good aircraft carries.

And don,t forget to dress your grand mothers with new clothes…gosh
Have I summarized it fair and square? any thing else before we move forward.

For crying out aloud with out mention names …How old are you guys (Head of KDF procurement wannabes)?????

Can were return sanity and talk about OLN,AMISOM and the GoSS issues?
And tell that Ngamia oil drilling animal, to drill that oil faster.

So what do you have to offer ? The whole purpose of this site is for each one of us to contribute to a debate. If you think that what is being debated feel free to ignore the posts and post when you see something substantial to post about. Now some of us might not be in Uniform or have been, and we might need guidance when it comes to Military Products, but we dont need guidance when it comes to posting our thoughts. They are only thoughts for goodness sake ! Dont try and belittle anyone here just because you know how to aim a rifle. If you think some issues are more important to tlk about, go ahead and talk about them and we will do our best to discuss them.

My point is you are dam saturating the blog with should and shouldn’t procurements which are out of you howling distances. And if it is true that KDF changes took effect thanks to this blog …God bless KDF and the Kenyans at large.
Can we discussion other defense matters rather than "i wish we would have......."