Air Superiority Stealth Fighter Jets

cylon wrote:...
@Mogen i agree that we will always need man in the skies but that role is getting smaller and smaller everyday with governments willing to remove war causalities with machines that will be inexpensive to replace which is easier than someones life, reminds me of that movie stealth and the upcoming video game blackops 2 that this infrastructure of drones will be susceptible to a killer virus that hackers will use to take control of the systems and turn these complex machines on us its just ironic.

@cylon when they will add solar power to the Ray Phantom you wonder how far it will travel and how much havoc it may cause in enemy territory. Jobs amenable to automation/computer programming - yes. Jobs requiring human judgment, at the very least, someone may be required to sit behind a joystick a bit longer.

mogen wrote:

cylon wrote:...
@Mogen i agree that we will always need man in the skies but that role is getting smaller and smaller everyday with governments willing to remove war causalities with machines that will be inexpensive to replace which is easier than someones life, reminds me of that movie stealth and the upcoming video game blackops 2 that this infrastructure of drones will be susceptible to a killer virus that hackers will use to take control of the systems and turn these complex machines on us its just ironic.

@cylon when they will add solar power to the Ray Phantom you wonder how far it will travel and how much havoc it may cause in enemy territory. Jobs amenable to automation/computer programming - yes. Jobs requiring human judgment, at the very least, someone may be required to sit behind a joystick a bit longer.

They are not far away from doing that once solar panels become at least 80 to 90% efficient the phantom ray will ultimate reduce the need of a pilot like Risasi said but we are quite about 20yrs or so

[quote="cylon"]

mogen wrote:

cylon wrote:...
@cylon when they will add solar power to the Ray Phantom you wonder how far it will travel and how much havoc it may cause in enemy territory. Jobs amenable to automation/computer programming - yes. Jobs requiring human judgment, at the very least, someone may be required to sit behind a joystick a bit longer.

They are not far away from doing that once solar panels become at least 80 to 90% efficient the phantom ray will ultimate reduce the need of a pilot like Risasi said but we are quite about 20yrs or so

@Cylon- methinks Solar energy technology has advanced so much that 20yrs is probably too long. I'd say 5-10yrs is more like it and we are more likely to see hybrid solar-powered drones flying. Solar cars race every year in various places and their performance/achievements continue to impress. For instance, the annual 3000km-race from Darwin to Adelaide [in Australia] has been very captivating, even mind boggling. Check more info here:http://www.worldsolarchallenge.org/.

The Wright brothers flew the first aeroplane in 1903 and by the time of World War I military aircraft were already doing sorties.

[quote="mogen"]

cylon wrote:

mogen wrote:

cylon wrote:...
@cylon when they will add solar power to the Ray Phantom you wonder how far it will travel and how much havoc it may cause in enemy territory. Jobs amenable to automation/computer programming - yes. Jobs requiring human judgment, at the very least, someone may be required to sit behind a joystick a bit longer.

They are not far away from doing that once solar panels become at least 80 to 90% efficient the phantom ray will ultimate reduce the need of a pilot like Risasi said but we are quite about 20yrs or so

@Cylon- methinks Solar energy technology has advanced so much that 20yrs is probably too long. I'd say 5-10yrs is more like it and we are more likely to see hybrid solar-powered drones flying. Solar cars race every year in various places and their performance/achievements continue to impress. For instance, the annual 3000km-race from Darwin to Adelaide [in Australia] has been very captivating, even mind boggling. Check more info here:http://www.worldsolarchallenge.org/.

The Wright brothers flew the first aeroplane in 1903 and by the time of World War I military aircraft were already doing sorties.

The Effeciency of today's solar panels are about 40% for them to make a real difference which they still do today would be to create an 90% efficient ultra low costing panel so people can afford them.

cylon wrote:
The Effeciency of today's solar panels are about 40% for them to make a real difference which they still do today would be to create an 90% efficient ultra low costing panel so people can afford them.

In 2001 I bought a 28MB USB memory stick. Then the max you could get was 100MB. A few years later a 1GB USB memory stick became available and we were stuck there until nano technology enabled techs to pack more than 1GB of memory in a USB drive. And now you can buy a 120GB USB memory stick and 1000GB [1 TB] USB external drive the size of an audio tape cassette.

Solar technology is advancing at such a rate [demand-driven rate] that in the next 5-10yrs we will get it upto 60-70% and when you couple that up with petrol engines the bird can fly and fly.

mogen wrote:

cylon wrote:
The Effeciency of today's solar panels are about 40% for them to make a real difference which they still do today would be to create an 90% efficient ultra low costing panel so people can afford them.

In 2001 I bought a 28MB USB memory stick. Then the max you could get was 100MB. A few years later a 1GB USB memory stick became available and we were stuck there until nano technology enabled techs to pack more than 1GB of memory in a USB drive. And now you can buy a 120GB USB memory stick and 1000GB [1 TB] USB external drive the size of an audio tape cassette.

Solar technology is advancing at such a rate [demand-driven rate] that in the next 5-10yrs we will get it upto 60-70% and when you couple that up with petrol engines the bird can fly and fly.

Im not denying that rate of solar panels will diminish im actually excited at the potential solar panels will bring to my projects that im building

The new toy in the aviation world
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To5fcvaC1eg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdUfzftGNQk&feature=relmfu

US Army to launch spying vehicle

The Army is preparing for an inaugural flight soon for its new Long Endurance Multi-Intelligence Vehicle (LEMV), an airship, to wit a blimp, of sorts. It could deploy later this year. She is built by Northrop Grumman. It is longer than an airfield, higher than seven stories and can remain airborne for several weeks at a time. It is expected to fly at about 20,000 ft. The engineers say she is not technically a blimp, but rather a hybrid airship. She can gain lift from three sources: on board helium; hull design made from composite materials; vectored thrust from four diesel engines and vector vanes. To fly in combat, it seems she will need fighter cover or US air superiority. The graphic is an artist’s concept. (060512)


it cost half a billion dollars only to built!!!!!
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/12245497/image/92711736-us-army-lemv-long-endurance-multi-intelligence-vehicle

This F-22 bird is really having serious issues http://www.businessinsider.com/another-f-22-raptor-has-been-involved-in-the-air-forces-most-serious-type-of-accident-2012-6

HokumA wrote:This F-22 bird is really having serious issues http://www.businessinsider.com/another-f-22-raptor-has-been-involved-in-the-air-forces-most-serious-type-of-accident-2012-6

And the F-35 Joint Striker is on its way to becoming The Allied Fighter Of The 21st Century

( http://www.businessinsider.com/lockheed-martin-f35-pictures-japan-south-korea-canada-2011-12 )

mogen wrote:

HokumA wrote:This F-22 bird is really having serious issues http://www.businessinsider.com/another-f-22-raptor-has-been-involved-in-the-air-forces-most-serious-type-of-accident-2012-6

And the F-35 Joint Striker is on its way to becoming The Allied Fighter Of The 21st Century

( http://www.businessinsider.com/lockheed-martin-f35-pictures-japan-south-korea-canada-2011-12 )

The purchase prospects of the F-35 are great but the issues surrounding this bird are also great;
1. first of all they were hacked and a lot of data stolen so this will take time to fix since it means rethinking the design and other defensive components.
2. The cost of each of this birds is too high $304M each plus its too expensive to run this bird in the long run.
3. The J-20 might be a copy but if the US wants to be on top of this game they have to be warily of woo's potential, will and monetary might which will enable copying and innovating in equal measure. So if they don't watch woo might have a superior and cheaper bird before the F-35 becomes fully operational.
4. By 2030 the US will be playing second fiddle to China, India (by 2050) and may be Russia (2050) if they get their recovery process right or even Brazil. More money to pay for new 2000+ high end birds will be hard to come by, the F-35 will have to humble it's self tuck it's tail katikati ya miguu and head home to play with dry bones where will be a new kid on the block.

HokumA wrote:

mogen wrote:

HokumA wrote:This F-22 bird is really having serious issues http://www.businessinsider.com/another-f-22-raptor-has-been-involved-in-the-air-forces-most-serious-type-of-accident-2012-6

And the F-35 Joint Striker is on its way to becoming The Allied Fighter Of The 21st Century

( http://www.businessinsider.com/lockheed-martin-f35-pictures-japan-south-korea-canada-2011-12 )

The purchase prospects of the F-35 are great but the issues surrounding this bird are also great;
1. first of all they were hacked and a lot of data stolen so this will take time to fix since it means rethinking the design and other defensive components.
2. The cost of each of this birds is too high $304M each plus its too expensive to run this bird in the long run.
3. The J-20 might be a copy but if the US wants to be on top of this game they have to be warily of woo's potential, will and monetary might which will enable copying and innovating in equal measure. So if they don't watch woo might have a superior and cheaper bird before the F-35 becomes fully operational.
4. By 2030 the US will be playing second fiddle to China, India (by 2050) and may be Russia (2050) if they get their recovery process right or even Brazil. More money to pay for new 2000+ high end birds will be hard to come by, the F-35 will have to humble it's self tuck it's tail katikati ya miguu and head home to play with dry bones where will be a new kid on the block.

@HokumA
US playing second fiddle to China, India, Russia. While they keep copying/stealing Sammy's designs and perfecting them for the market... hmmmmmmmmmmm!

Let us look at how the US went ahead of the rest of the world: Sammy collects the best of brains (eg Einstein) from the world, gives them an enabling environment and funding. In fact, top notch professionals from everywhere ran there for all sorts of reasons (incl. spying). Their economy that backed technological development was based on the free market. Just look at how much they have introduced in the world to date.

Woo has money, factories that can do duplication, stealing skills etc. But is that all that you need to be ahead? Are you discounting the influence of democratisation on technological development?

Methinks: Sammy just needs to sort the greed of his financial people/bankers, fix the economy and the world will keep copying from him for a long time to come. The extent of his borrowing is the thing to worry about. In terms of creativity and innovativeness Sammy remains way ahead of the pack. Ama?

A Turkish F-4 was shot down 1km into Syrian territorial waters, just 1 km. That is as close as you get to bringing a new crisis upon yourselves. Erdogan, the Turkish PM, is weighing his options and will pronounce himself in the next few days

A Turkish Airforce F-4E 2020, like the one that was shot down. Although the curves are 1980s-looking, the bird entered service in 2000 and am told it packs quite a punch with the domestically developed Tubitak-SAGE SOM Cruise missiles it carries

The area where it was shot down, apparently by a Syrian S-300PMU-2 air and missile defense system

I saw an animation flight path (BBC NEWS) of the ill fated bird. A zigzag pattern in and out of Syria air space(sea).It seem that the pilot was toying around with what he assumed was a dead Syrian air defense battery . and like I have always said a pilot and SAM operator fiasco is like a cat and mouse game. Whoever gets caught, pays with his life.

Risasi wrote:I saw an animation flight path (BBC NEWS) of the ill fated bird. A zigzag pattern in and out of Syria air space(sea).It seem that the pilot was toying around with what he assumed was a dead Syrian air defense battery . and like I have always said a pilot and SAM operator fiasco is like a cat and mouse game. Whoever gets caught, pays with his life.

@Bulletman
'Cat and mouse' chase is still an uneven fight. The cat being superior never gets caught by the mouse.

Anyway, I hear the Syrian vessels have joined the search for the downed jet and the the Syrian foreign minister said that their forces realized that it was a Turkish jet after firing at it. In the meantime Turkey has promised a response. The minister says jet was downed 10km of Syrian coast and insists it wasn't known to be a Turkish jet before being hit. What will Turkey do? Aren't they just bluffing?

Experts say China hacked F-35 Fighter jet plans[b]

The Sunday Times

Chinese spies hacked into computers belonging to BAE Systems, Britain's biggest defence company, to steal details about the design, performance and electronic systems of the West's latest fighter jet, senior security figures have disclosed....Experts say China hacked F-35 Fighter jet plans

How much of the stuff was stolen/

@Mogen 'Cat and mouse' either one could be the cat or mouse depending on the circumstance and sortie. In this instance the mouse was the fighter pilot while the cat was the SAM AD , waiting to pounce the mouse as it crisscross the corridors. In other situation the cat could be the fighter searching to locate and annihilation hidden enemy SAM batteries. Its called the wild weasel sorties done by F-4, a coincidence of I may ask? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FujKSEJLuY0

In all circumstance the end of the barrel could change direction in a flick second and the predator becomes the prey. I am almost certain that the pilot knew when he was been tracked or locked on and took evasive action like climb, or moving out of the intruded air space. The Syria AD on the other hand most likely down him with a “lock after launch mode” to avoid early detection of the outgoing missile. The scenario was the “I dare you and catch me if you can” game, most likely backed from respective HQ with set rules of engagements. looking at it from profession stand point it wasn,t the first time that the game was played between the Fighter pilots and AD unit at that zone.

@Spartan the aircraft was downed 1kM inside Syrian air space and not 1kM for the Syrian coast a grey area, an area of debate. Both sides fingers crossed waiting to find the wreck and its true position.

@hacked F-35 Blue prints. Any similarities with this bird???



The JF-17 block III Multirole Fighter est. to enter into production in 2016.
me say and always will an ideal candidate for the future KDF-AF.

Part of the reason the western powers are reluctant to engage in Syria outright militarily is because Syria has a very very good air defense network..most of which is deployed cleverly within civilian populated areas.
so to take this system out will need a very robust and outright attack by an armada of sorts.
The Syrians took hard lessons from the previous wars with Israel whereby the Israelis were able to neutralize the entire Egyptian air force before any planes of the Egyptian air force were able to even taxi from the runways and into the air.
I hate to say it but me thinks the TURKISH plane may have been on a decoy testing mission of some sort to test the air defense system and see if the Syrians have the resolve to react.

Risasi wrote:@Mogen 'Cat and mouse' either one could be the cat or mouse depending on the circumstance and sortie. In this instance the mouse was the fighter pilot while the cat was the SAM AD , waiting to pounce the mouse as it crisscross the corridors. In other situation the cat could be the fighter searching to locate and annihilation hidden enemy SAM batteries. Its called the wild weasel sorties done by F-4, a coincidence of I may ask? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FujKSEJLuY0

In all circumstance the end of the barrel could change direction in a flick second and the predator becomes the prey. I am almost certain that the pilot knew when he was been tracked or locked on and took evasive action like climb, or moving out of the intruded air space. The Syria AD on the other hand most likely down him with a “lock after launch mode” to avoid early detection of the outgoing missile. The scenario was the “I dare you and catch me if you can” game, most likely backed from respective HQ with set rules of engagements. looking at it from profession stand point it wasn,t the first time that the game was played between the Fighter pilots and AD unit at that zone.

@Spartan the aircraft was downed 1kM inside Syrian air space and not 1kM for the Syrian coast a grey area, an area of debate. Both sides fingers crossed waiting to find the wreck and its true position.

@hacked F-35 Blue prints. Any similarities with this bird???



The JF-17 block III Multirole Fighter est. to enter into production in 2016.
me say and always will an ideal candidate for the future KDF-AF.

@Risasi & @Countersniper
Yes, it appears there was a 'cat-an-mouse' and the hunter turned into the
hunted. And that means the Turks are probably just bluffing and won't do
much more, overtly.

The F-35 and JF-17 are eeriely similar, man. And PAKs worked with Wu on
this, or may they were the first clients. Sammy and friends will have to
re-design while Uncle Wu continues to get things in the cheap.

Maajabu ya dunia ni mengi

Risasi wrote:@Spartan the aircraft was downed 1kM inside Syrian air space and not 1kM for the Syrian coast a grey area, an area of debate. Both sides fingers crossed waiting to find the wreck and its true position.

Apparently, the Turks don't think so, bro. Their Foreign Minister has just released this statement;

In an interview with TRT television on Sunday, Mr Davutoglu asserted
that the unarmed F-4 Phantom had "momentarily" entered Syrian airspace
by mistake on Friday but had left when it was shot down 15 minutes
later.



“Start Quote

The plane did not show any sign of
hostility toward Syria and was shot down about 15 minutes after having
momentarily violated Syrian airspace.....According to our conclusions, our plane was shot down in international airspace, 13 nautical miles (24km) from Syria," he said.”

Ahmet Davutoglu
Turkish Foreign Minister on BBC. Read the full article here. I don't think the Syrians are getting off lightly on this one, but don't expect a full scale breakout of hostilities, at least not by Turkey alone. The Turkish populace has no stomach for it.

And that Turkey to consult NATO, and this is where I think Syria could have miscalculated by providing an entrance for the West through NATO. The Turks have been toying with the idea of invoking NATO's self defence Article 5, and this is the clearest indication they have given that it's not business as usual with Syria. Let's wait and see.

it is highly unlikely that NATO will start a new conflict in the middle east more so with SYRIA.
but a seemingly robust stance to threaten to start one may be the catalyst to nudge ASSAD out of power.
The RUSSIANS ARE KEEN not to loose ASSAD at all costs and will try to help him.
my guess is that shipment of refurbished Syrian Russian made attack helicopters that was headed to Syria but turned back near the coast of Scotland after the insurance company for the ship carrying the choppers withdrew coverage due to US and British government pressure,the russians can deliver those choppers directly by air to Syria from Russia easily by using those heavy lift antonov 225 transport planes...or use a naval ship to deliver the same cargo anyway.

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2012/Jun-24/177948-ship-with-syria-choppers-enters-russian-port.ashx
David Cameron was almost sending British special forces to seize the arms cargo

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9345368/Syria-David-Cameron-considered-ordering-special-forces-to-seize-Russian-ship.html


meanwhile there is BREAKING NEWS THAT the wreckage of the downed Turkish JET fighter has been found 1300 meters deep in the sea of Syrian waters territory.
so the Turks are telling lies when they claim the plane was not in Syrian territory.

This whole Syrian mambo frightens me, fellas. Not particularly religious but... That Phantom was mapping Syrian Anti-Air Defense, and the Turks were prepared to lose it - they didn't send in any of their more functional and modern fighters, eh? But is NATO looking for an excuse to War with Syria - after their debacle in Libya, in their weakened political and economic state, with social tensions exploding every where in Europe, and OBAMA fighting to survive Romney's challenge? I doubt it.

NATO seeks to flex muscles it no longer has, pushing an ideology it has consistently discredited in the duplicity of it sanctimonious application - Qaddafi is a dictator and the Sauid King is not! No one is buying NATO screaming outrage about ''democracy in Syria'' any more.

And after years of senselessly and needlessly bullying the Russian, the Bear is balking and with her claws out ready to fight. The old Arab order seems to have found concordance with Bashar and are making a last stand in Syria.

So NATO start inserting formation-ready regular troops into Syria masquerading as Syrian Irregulars fighters /protesters ( Portuguese paratroopers were yesterday arrested inside Syria fully armed) and running in huge quantities of very dangerous weapons into Syria that no ''Syria protesters'' would have any idea how to deploy (obviously for use by the Covert Regulars NATO has been seeding into Syria).

Now Russian /Putin has drawn a Line, and Uncle Woo gleefully playing alone with Putin - Russian is done back-peddling. WHO WILL BLINK first? Huge Cargo Aircraft shuttling round the clock flights to Damascus with all manner of weaponry.

This has the markings of a Global War of Powers. Probably not in Biblical proportions, but....

Risasi wrote:@Mogen 'Cat and mouse' either one could be the cat or mouse depending on the circumstance and sortie. In this instance the mouse was the fighter pilot while the cat was the SAM AD , waiting to pounce the mouse as it crisscross the corridors. In other situation the cat could be the fighter searching to locate and annihilation hidden enemy SAM batteries. Its called the wild weasel sorties done by F-4, a coincidence of I may ask? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FujKSEJLuY0

In all circumstance the end of the barrel could change direction in a flick second and the predator becomes the prey. I am almost certain that the pilot knew when he was been tracked or locked on and took evasive action like climb, or moving out of the intruded air space. The Syria AD on the other hand most likely down him with a “lock after launch mode” to avoid early detection of the outgoing missile. The scenario was the “I dare you and catch me if you can” game, most likely backed from respective HQ with set rules of engagements. looking at it from profession stand point it wasn,t the first time that the game was played between the Fighter pilots and AD unit at that zone.

@Spartan the aircraft was downed 1kM inside Syrian air space and not 1kM for the Syrian coast a grey area, an area of debate. Both sides fingers crossed waiting to find the wreck and its true position.

@hacked F-35 Blue prints. Any similarities with this bird???



The JF-17 block III Multirole Fighter est. to enter into production in 2016.
me say and always will an ideal candidate for the future KDF-AF.

@Risasi rem when i first posted pics of this beautifull bird? this is one bird i wouldn't mind flying.

The Russians are said to be set reflaging the cargo ship to sail back to international waters under Russian flag and colors.

so it will be interesting to see if Cameron will risk sending his forces to take over ... a technically what is deemed as a Russian cargo ship..on international waters.

countersniper wrote:The Russians are said to be set reflaging the cargo ship to sail back to international waters under Russian flag and colors.

so it will be interesting to see if Cameron will risk sending his forces to take over ... a technically what is deemed as a Russian cargo ship..on international waters.

The Syrians had a geopolitical ace card and they played it well. David Cameron dang well knows hat sinking a ship from the Rodina is tantamount to picking a fight with Russia. No one can afford to do that with Russia, least of all with Putin at the helm. NATO tested the waters when they incited Georgia to a fistfight with Russia only for Georgia to emerge bloodied and humiliated. This is one NATO will have to let slide.

@ countersniper well said.

@Spartan me think both side knew what they were getting into and had solid instructions from HQ on the rules of engagement. the West has the media to tell us what they want but if you are in the know add one and one to see the results. The point of impact and crash could be well in the international area as the pilot might have tried to escape the incoming “stick”. I feel the lock was done within the Syria waters.

@ jasiri @jf-17 sawa man.

KDF Air Cavalry is supposed to have this Russian answer to the Apache but I am yet to see it in Kenyan colours. Or is it just rumors?

When your enemy turns up in that ride, you need this highly rated South African missile system - the Umkhonto. It beat both the US-German Rolling Air Frame Missile and the Swedish Bofors Bamse missiles to win a contract with Finland Navy - all at a fraction of the cost.

Spartan wrote:KDF Air Cavalry is supposed to have this Russian answer to the Apache but I am yet to see it in Kenyan colours. Or is it just rumors?

And how will you see this seating in Uganda, eh? Ama, you are dug-out in Wajir? Wee, stop fishin' man!

Assembly near complete, full company-equivalent already commissioned. Accelerated flight-conversions & ground /support-crews. Old story this Spartan - a lot of ground has shifted, still shifting, man.

Risasi wrote:@ countersniper well said.

@Spartan me think both side knew what they were getting into and had solid instructions from HQ on the rules of engagement. the West has the media to tell us what they want but if you are in the know add one and one to see the results. The point of impact and crash could be well in the international area as the pilot might have tried to escape the incoming “stick”. I feel the lock was done within the Syria waters.

@ jasiri @jf-17 sawa man.

Risasi really loves these Chinese planes. I thought he had forgotten all about them with this talk of the F-15s.

Well, what about these then:-

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairfo/articles/20120626.aspx

Some free surplus M1A1 tanks for Morocco?

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htarm/articles/20120625.aspx