Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

@Delphas - a Armed Military Plane is likely to have explosive material of sorts aboard. You approach with absolute care least you set it off. And particularly where quantities of highly inflammable aviation fuel is insecure. You circle around the site, looking for possible signs of movement away from and to the crash site, survivors - personal effects, footprints, broken foliage, etc, and in smaller circles till you get to the plane. Fuselage is completely burnt-out shell, and cursory look through shows visible evidence of a human remain - you cannot see the rest of it without getting into the fuselage, and for that you need to secure the site against inadvertent degradation. The conflagration was bad enough to kills the Pilot and co-pilot in the front cockpits, it is unlikely that passengers in the burnt-out Fuselage where the fuel cells are located would have fared better. And this must be evident to the SAR teams too.

@oleNkarei.. tupe habari bwana! without compromising opsec, how badly did this one go?

This is just theory and has nothing to do with the events of the past days.....can an aircraft/chopper be brought down by electronic warfare techniques?? Does kenya have these capabilities?

bwanapesa wrote:This is just theory and has nothing to do with the events of the past days.....can an aircraft/chopper be brought down by electronic warfare techniques?? Does kenya have these capabilities?

Yes a chopper can be brought down by an EMP blast, But i believe most choppers today have a way of preventing that. I don't think kenya has Electronic warfare capabilities just yet


Okay Amisom lost its attack helicopter capabilities when the Mil-24's went down and it is now looking for a way of filling in that hole. Burundi has 2 Mil 24's and im guessing those are no longer operational, But Ethiopia got dozens working models that the AU is probably going to ask the ETAF to join for the fight for Chai or supply them with some
attack choppers. Ole do you see such a scenario play part or is now Amisom going to rely on KDF birds???

The AU head honcho in AMISOM has demanded the UNSC replace without delay those Hinds. If anybody else throws in their Gunships, Uganda will wait for years to get replacement. Nevertheless AMISOM will take Kismayu without the UPDF's Hinds, have no doubt. Everybody of the TCC are gathered in Nairobi to restrategized on this.

It is very easy to take down a flying machine @bwanapesa. Nothing as complicated as an EMP, even a very simple electro-magnet placed in proximity to the gyroscope, and triggered by remote control by satellite-link at the approach to a land mass, would crash the flight without doubt. But lets not go there just yet. Already there some very ugly noises coming out of official Uganda. M7 appointed his brother and personal Military Advise, General Swaleh, ostensibly to ensure that '' the Uganda Probe team did not feel inferior to Kenyans'' - it is all over their newspapers, quoting their Defense Minister!! Choppy waters!!

@ON i meant stuff that happened in the past few days... saw a lone tweet from one tweeting major about an ambush of not too small proportions... and the bean counters at the media house im currently stationed at talking of a 1k strong AS ambush...

areba wrote:@ON i meant stuff that happened in the past few days... saw a lone tweet from one tweeting major about an ambush of not too small proportions... and the bean counters at the media house im currently stationed at talking of a 1k strong AS ambush...

I also got that tweet from chirchri about 1000 ashabab attempting to breach a well defended KDF position.
the tweet says situation repulsed with a number of them thugs dead.

countersniper wrote:

areba wrote:@ON i meant stuff that happened in the past few days... saw a lone tweet from one tweeting major about an ambush of not too small proportions... and the bean counters at the media house im currently stationed at talking of a 1k strong AS ambush...

I also got that tweet from chirchri about 1000 ashabab attempting to breach a well defended KDF position.
the tweet says situation repulsed with a number of them thugs dead.

I saw the AS propaganda but never got the tweet.

This is a very sad situation, but I think we should all learn from it. Why should KDF rely so much on tropic air ? Their explanation is that tropic air has got some small birds in their fleet that can land in small areas. My question is are we going to learn from this so that we can have small aircraft that can be used is in the in case of search and rescue? Infrared camera's and all that to detect life on the ground?

We all make mistakes but it's only a wise man who can learn from his mistakes. I believe that's the weaknesses in the UPDF and KDF have been brought to the fore and we must make sure that our soldiers never gets into such a situation.

areba wrote:@ON i meant stuff that happened in the past few days... saw a lone tweet from one tweeting major about an ambush of not too small proportions... and the bean counters at the media house im currently stationed at talking of a 1k strong AS ambush...

Sorry @CA. These maneno of Al-Kebaba are compartmentalized to better deal with their propaganda. Mike-Alfa-Juliet / Double-Charlie has ''Point'' on that. Not sure the exact number but IK bandits would be a typical exaggeration - ''mine-is-longer-than-..''. But, multiple contact, not unexpected, outside / around Chai-town, usual modus operadis - RPGs, 40mm Mortars, a noisy gun-on-Landcruiser, AK47s-on-sandals!!. Gunships with Panhards AML gave chase, hot, weapons free!! Bad ass-combo, those two! Results - reminds of these stories in history about a witch-doctor splashing a milky substance on some spear-armed natives and telling them how impervious to Bullets they have become!! Eiish!! You know of course that the Zoomaliya Political Process is falling behind schedule?

@Nesta -

Why should KDF rely so much on tropic air ?

Topic Air was the UPDF/AF preferred local Liaison in Nanyuki. Apart from providing the Transit Protocols, KDF/AF was in the periphery of this maneno. Note also that Transiting Protocols disallow ARMED transit of Militarized Hardware - which is why these Hinds were scheduled for a lay-by in Baidoa to Arm them before their travelling on to Mogadishu.

ive always known to take these guys with a pinch of salt, especially now that im on a no salt, low cholesteral diet...

bwanapesa wrote:This is just theory and has nothing to do with the events of the past days.....can an aircraft/chopper be brought down by electronic warfare techniques?? Does kenya have these capabilities?

I think electronic warfare techniques are espescially good in an offensive situation...to suppress enemy SAMs. KDF thinking should be sober enuff to to invest in such equipment in light of TZ's massive SAM stockpile. Incidentally, relic SAMs like the one TZ has are quite susceptible to ECM.

areba wrote:ive always known to take these guys with a pinch of salt, especially now that im on a no salt, low cholesteral diet...

@Areba
They ran leaving behind 6 pick ups with machine guns which are now in KDF custody in Somalia. Indeed, A.S. found out that was indeed a well-defended KDF position

its bad week for combat helicopters
Taleban claim responsibilty but US officials are sayingthey dont know what caused the crash



http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/asia-pacific/afghanistan/120816/afghanistan-helicopter-crash-kills-11-isaf

@ON, @Risasi, I agree that as at now an EWS/EW platform may be unfeasible. But we all are aware that basic testing for EW systems / infrustructure began as early as 1972. Can't we afford even the most basic EW support equipments /Modest MPDC INFRUSTRUCTURE version to carry out surveillance (recon) enhance op-Sec for chaisimayu prospects.

@ ON, correct me if I diverge, the KDF is currently utilizing EMJ/Electragnetic Deception to avert looping ECM/enemy electromagnetic deception in the theatre. Can't KDF's oversight committee reach a modus vivendi with the political oversight committe and sacrifice to get something meatier reminesent of a sweep barrage...

countersniper wrote:

areba wrote:@ON i meant stuff that happened in the past few days... saw a lone tweet from one tweeting major about an ambush of not too small proportions... and the bean counters at the media house im currently stationed at talking of a 1k strong AS ambush...

I also got that tweet from chirchri about 1000 ashabab attempting to breach a well defended KDF position.
the tweet says situation repulsed with a number of them thugs dead.

so it was a 1,000 alshabab vs 45 KDF soldiers who were in the outpost that is impressive i can't wait to read to statistics of this war when its over. RIP to the kenyan soldiers who lost there lives defending their comrades and this country. The Kill ratio was probably higher than 73 dead shabab's and the KDF is holding out so it doesn't inflame the somali community....

cylon wrote:

countersniper wrote:

areba wrote:@ON i meant stuff that happened in the past few days... saw a lone tweet from one tweeting major about an ambush of not too small proportions... and the bean counters at the media house im currently stationed at talking of a 1k strong AS ambush...

I also got that tweet from chirchri about 1000 ashabab attempting to breach a well defended KDF position.
the tweet says situation repulsed with a number of them thugs dead.

so it was a 1,000 alshabab vs 45 KDF soldiers who were in the outpost that is impressive i can't wait to read to statistics of this war when its over. RIP to the kenyan soldiers who lost there lives defending their comrades and this country. The Kill ratio was probably higher than 73 dead shabab's and the KDF is holding out so it doesn't inflame the somali community....

something like this:

http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/index.php?videoID=2000059725&video_title=kdf-wawauwa-alshabaab

[quote="ole Nkarei"]The AU head honcho in AMISOM has demanded the UNSC replace without delay those Hinds. If anybody else throws in their Gunships, Uganda will wait for years to get replacement. Nevertheless AMISOM will take Kismayu without the UPDF's Hinds, have no doubt. quote]



Question, I am very confused and my head is spinning like "3600 RPM". WHY CAN,T AU USE KDF AIR SUPPORT AND PAY FOR IT? WHY REQUEST UGANDA TO PROVIDE THIS WHEN UGANDA HAS NOT USED THESE THINGS FOR LAST FIVE YEARS THAT THEY HAVE BEEN FIGHTING IN MONGUSHO? SOMEONE BREAK IT DOWN FOR ME..

also, are we to believe that KDF ground forces will go into Kisimayo without Air support from their regular buddies? Something does not make sense here.

Depha wrote:

bwanapesa wrote:This is just theory and has nothing to do with the events of the past days.....can an aircraft/chopper be brought down by electronic warfare techniques?? Does kenya have these capabilities?

I think electronic warfare techniques are espescially good in an offensive situation...to suppress enemy SAMs.

Sensors work well both ways ( during Defensive or offensive) but effectively as defensive against enemy counter fire positions....

@MAKE_IT_SIMPLE,
Some KDF Z9 choppers as CSA have been operational for quite a while in the theater. I'd not see a scenario where the current situation of HINDS will stall any planned advance to chai. Unless the UNSC have other ideas.

MAKE_IT_SIMPLE wrote:
Question, I am very confused and my head is spinning like "3600 RPM". WHY CAN,T AU USE KDF AIR SUPPORT AND PAY FOR IT? WHY REQUEST UGANDA TO PROVIDE THIS WHEN UGANDA HAS NOT USED THESE THINGS FOR LAST FIVE YEARS THAT THEY HAVE BEEN FIGHTING IN MONGUSHO? SOMEONE BREAK IT DOWN FOR ME..

also, are we to believe that KDF ground forces will go into Kisimayo without Air support from their regular buddies? Something does not make sense here.

Okay buddy, lets see if we can get you disentangled kidogo.

1. KDF has the most complete Air-to-Ground Offensive/Defensive capabilities in Kenyana, by Equipment numbers & composition and Doctrine of Use. From a purely Military point of view, those UPDF Mi24s were neither complimentary nor irreplaceable to the OLN Military Scheme of things In Southern Somalia.

2. The entire AMISOM strategy in Zoomaliya is to engender political resolutions to National disagreements. So that AMISOM's Miilitary efforts must be clearly perceived to be driven by the Political Dimension. So that the Closure of the Zoomaliya Conflict must be a Political Resolution in whatever form. This explains the imperative to collapse OLN and Kenya's Strategic Interests into AMISOM so that Kenya does not entrench political solutions in Zoomaliya driven by Military might. For this reason, the Kismayu Assault, which is the last redoubt of the Al-shabaab, must not result in a glorification of Military Power of any of the TTC but be seen by the Zoomaliyans as a coordinated Politically-driven Military Effort of AMISOM.

3. There are also clear divergences between the Strategic Interests of the TTC which if not handled Politically and Correctly could pollute the Military effort and lead to Military conflict within the TTC. This War has more at stake than just Peace in Zoomaliya.

Kwa hivyo, heri tujumuika na wenzetu wale wote wanaotaka kunywa Chai kismayu nasi, kuliko tulifagie kismayu peke yetu jambo ambalo tunaloweza kwa urahisi, alafa mugawanyiko kati sisi sote majirani uzuke na uendeleze hili jinamizi lilivyo Zoomaliya kwa miaka hii yote. Ama?

I like the tone of this warning. http://www.capitalfm.co.ke/news/2012/08/kenya-warns-somalia-detractors-of-sanctions/
This is a message from a regional military super power, in other words no matter who you are, you must toe the line or else.... Many people mistake this old man for a very soft character because he may not have those tough dictatorial faces we see nearby but he is quite a man of stance and action, that is why when he as the C in C commanded his boys to go and quench the fire at the neighbors homestead, many were caught by surprise, it was so unlike him. Then number of mega development projects + military modernisation/expansion he is undertaking without chest thumbing speaks volumes. I hope we will not have to miss this man after his time at the helm.

Mass displacement as locals flee kismayo

Reportedly people are fleeing Kismayo.

http://www.bar-kulan.com/2012/08/16/mass-displacement-as-locals-flee-kismayo/

Kobooz wrote:I like the tone of this warning. http://www.capitalfm.co.ke/news/2012/08/kenya-warns-somalia-detractors-of-sanctions/
This is a message from a regional military super power, in other words no matter who you are, you must toe the line or else.... Many people mistake this old man for a very soft character because he may not have those tough dictatorial faces we see nearby but he is quite a man of stance and action, that is why when he as the C in C commanded his boys to go and quench the fire at the neighbors homestead, many were caught by surprise, it was so unlike him. Then number of mega development projects + military modernisation/expansion he is undertaking without chest thumbing speaks volumes. I hope we will not have to miss this man after his time at the helm.

This statement he gave in 2004 is very telling:
"...lasting and durable peace and a stable government in Somalia is a matter of great national interest to Kenya.”

ole..
the incident where the KDF at fafadum where more than 73 alshababs were wasted..am surprised that kdf had Intel that these 1000 fellows were coming for an attack..and instead of going on the offensive...they decided to be on the defensive and wait in an ambush.
i believe they could have been more successful to attack these fellows as they regrouped somewhere to begin the attack and probably nab or kill their leadership as well ...
1000 armed fellows and technicals don't meet or move in a vacuum..am sure they must have created one hell of a foot print visible for miles.

countersniper wrote:ole..
the incident where the KDF at fafadum where more than 73 alshababs were wasted..am surprised that kdf had Intel that these 1000 fellows were coming for an attack..and instead of going on the offensive...they decided to be on the defensive and wait in an ambush.
i believe they could have been more successful to attack these fellows as they regrouped somewhere to begin the attack and probably nab or kill their leadership as well ...
1000 armed fellows and technicals don't meet or move in a vacuum..am sure they must have created one hell of a foot print visible for miles.

Yeah, that is another perspective of it. Tis not the first AS assault on Fahfadun either. Marshaling a battalion of irregulars as seamlessly embedded in the local population as the AS is a complex thing - difficult to hide too. The Danger is that they can easily disperse in small groupings back into their embedded Community at the first signs they had lost the element of surprise. You need to get them ALL in ONE location, well prepped for them and than use your superiority to destroy them. Reverse-ambush. Reinforcing the half-Coy at Fahfadun, or moving Gunship and heavier Field pieces to Fahfadun would have blown the Reverse-ambush. Careful Panning and Cordination - this engagement will be analysed in Combat schools in Kenya for years.

When you read of a Hundred Assault Rifles abandoned on the field of contact, what does that tell of the enemy KiA? We stopped publicizing KIA counts last year!

also, are we to believe that KDF ground forces will go into Kisimayo
without Air support from their regular buddies? Something does not make
sense here.

I agree with M-I-S. It would be an anomaly to have your back covered by someone you haven't known and worked with for some good time in the past.

Hiyo chai bado siku kama kumi... need to tie all the loose ends quick.

RIP our fallen Ug brothers.

KDF is not going into Combat any time soon, side-by-side, or backing or being backed by the UPDF. Tasks are allotted, planning and development of plans compartmentalized. The success in each Sector is complimentary and shared - when the UGABAG suppress AS in all of Lower Shabelle, it lessens the AS foot-print in Kismayu/lower Jubba and Gedo. And vice versa. So too with the FAB in Bay and Bakool, and the ENDF in Hiraan.

Coordinated/ synchronized /compartmentalized /complimentary activities. Stretch out the AS to thin them and butcher them.

ole Nkarei wrote:KDF is not going into Combat any time soon, side-by-side, or backing or being backed by the UPDF. Tasks are allotted, planning and development of plans compartmentalized. The success in each Sector is complimentary and shared - when the UGABAG suppress AS in all of Lower Shabelle, it lessens the AS foot-print in Kismayu/lower Jubba and Gedo. And vice versa. So too with the FAB in Bay and Bakool, and the ENDF in Hiraan.

Coordinated/ synchronized /compartmentalized /complimentary activities. Stretch out the AS to thin them and butcher them.

i find it comical that there is this notion being pushed by some local and international press that because KDF has been slow in capturing kismayu, UPDF was swinging into action with its ill fated Gunships to help KDF resume the initiative
.
http://www.theeastafrican.co.ke/news/Clinton+visit+exposed+Washington+delicate+balancing+act/-/2558/1482504/-/3jpd3iz/-/index.html


what nonesense rubbish is this?

Kenya’s case
Kenya, on the other hand — being “the most advanced
polity in region”— presents a puzzle of its own, with two prominent
politicians in the running for next year’s presidential elections, Uhuru
Kenyatta and William Ruto, facing International Criminal Court
indictments at The Hague.
Moreover, even in the event that neither Kenyatta
nor Ruto win the election, Kenya is still considered a lesser power than
Uganda when it comes to regional security and the war on terror.
Until last year, when Kenya joined the fight
against Al Shabaab in Somalia, for example, Uganda and Burundi were the
only countries contributing troops to Amisom. Next-door neighbour Kenya
was nowhere in the picture.
This would explain remarks attributed to Mrs
Clinton during her visit in Kenya, to the effect that Kenyatta and
Ruto’s candidature was a risk to US relations with Nairobi.
The remarks were made in private meetings with top
Kenyan officials, whom Mrs Clinton reportedly told the US would impose
sanctions if Mr Ruto or Mr Kenyatta became president.
By contrast, Washington questions Uganda’s
democracy and-human rights record only during closed door discussions
with the Kampala leadership.
http://www.theeastafrican.co.ke/news/Five+accidents+in+two+months+unmask+copter+flight+hazards+/-/2558/1482506/-/r8abjaz/-/index.html

ole Nkarei wrote:KDF is not going into Combat any time soon, side-by-side, or backing or being backed by the UPDF. Tasks are allotted, planning and development of plans compartmentalized. The success in each Sector is complimentary and shared - when the UGABAG suppress AS in all of Lower Shabelle, it lessens the AS foot-print in Kismayu/lower Jubba and Gedo. And vice versa. So too with the FAB in Bay and Bakool, and the ENDF in Hiraan.

Coordinated/ synchronized /compartmentalized /complimentary activities. Stretch out the AS to thin them and butcher them.

Thanks ON for the clarification. It seemed like the Ug hinds we headed to Chismayo Kunywa chai.

What political restrategizing (if any) needs to be done as a result of the Mt Kenya forest mishap? If you can tell safely here...