Re: Uganda Peoples Defence Force (UPDF),

Spartan Sun Sep 16 2012, 10:53

Fabrizio wrote:The imagery is accurate. It is not intended to disrespect the dead. In fact it brings home the immensity of the sacrifices AMISOM troops are making daily to bring stability to Somalia. The nature and ruthlessness of the enemy. A subject that is a staple on this board. A link will still take you to youtube(it is on youtube for crying out loud). In any case, viewer discretion is advised. Therefore I respectfully disagree.

With all due respect, you can't exercise viewer discretion on a photo already on display before your eyes! But you can choose to open the link or not. Do you see photos of British or American dead, even if there are hundreds of journalists in their war theaters? No? I thought so too. And yet the ISAF in Afghanistan are taking far more losses than AMISOM. That's because the journalists self-censure, for patriotic and access reasons.

Disagree if you will, just know that actions have consequences, and war information has life and death consequences. But I also know you post in good faith. So chal bro.

Flying Crane Sun Sep 16 2012, 14:10

Come comrades I expected the two of you to have dealt with it in a professional tone.

@Admin as much as the first global expression of rights to which all human beings are inherently entitled to, The Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) they are a set of other International human rights law that should be brought forward at this junction.

the two gentlemen represent respective nations that are conducting war and their sentiment and concerns fall under the International law of war which is a chapter of the resolutions of International human rights law just as the UDHR is.

The International law of war /Laws of war is designed to promote and protect human rights at the international, regional and domestic levels at war breaks. The laws of war cover two major sections http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_war

1. jus ad bellum: justifications to engage in war and the declarations of war

2. jus in bello: the limits to acceptable wartime conduct i.e Safeguards certain fundamental human rights of persons who fall into the hands of the enemy, prisoners of war, the wounded and sick, and civilians.

As uniformers we feel hosting such clips amongst our midst with due respect to the UDHR articles 19 & 20 is similar to abetting in violating a breech in section 2 of The Laws of war.

we are not holding a gun on an individuals head or trying to deny him his global expression of rights.

We are not restraining members from future publishing graphic images as it also show a well determined enemy. KDF dead image were hosted with no complains. But lets us take it into our own personal consideration i.e from a blog member to another,

If member finds an image disturbing, under our own self and mutual understanding and respect we can take matters into considerations and restrain that single posting for the sake of a member. my two cent.....

@Fabrizio let your conscience judge you in the next set of action .

Guest Sun Sep 16 2012, 14:47

asking for the removal of that video is censure and would lead to a "slippery slope," like situation (logic)

countersniper Sun Sep 16 2012, 15:06

that video is now on various sites so removing it from here means nothing.
we should be debating how these gallant men died from a suicide bomber ..or how they allowed the bomber so close to blow himself up killing the soldiers..and by the way who is that shouting in the video.(.dont shoot !!! or something like that)

Fabrizio Sun Sep 16 2012, 16:15

Here is how I view the issue. An image is worth a thousand words. A video, maybe a million. How many words and paragraphs and posts would it take to describe that video? I frankly don't see the difference between discussing the events and posting a video. We do that all the time. If the video is offensive, then it follows discussion of the same is offensive. Unless we intend to sanitize war.

My aim was to stimulate meaningful discussion on the subject matter, rather than the fact that it was posted. In fact some questions related to the complaints about posting, should be directed towards the actual scene. Should the cameraman been allowed to roam around freely with his equipment in a scene that was still live and most likely in need of securing so soon after the attack? Does that start to point to potential security lapses that led to the disaster in the first place? Were the President and Foreign Minister just lucky to have been not on the scene at the time of explosion?

Having said that, I will defer to Spartan's suggestion in future and post links. Even though I don't necessarily agree with this particular line of censorship. For the sake of moving onto more relevant discussions.

Guest Sun Sep 16 2012, 17:45

To some here this is a simple matter for intellectual discourse without distinction, to be dealt with dispassionately by us here. I retaliate that for your Uniformed Colleagues on this forum, this i s just not so. Regardless of whose soldiers are fallen, the uniform is precisely just so - uniform

I reckon @Countersniper dissect it rather well - (a) the gory pictures are available elsewhere for whoever wants to peek at them, and (b) analysis of what transpired offers valuable lessons which ought to form the discussion point.

Now, it begs the questions - (I) is the "shared" viewing of these pictures necessary for our debate?, and (ii) is it imperative to "share-view" the pictures despite the obvious discomfort this gives your Uniformed Colleagues? I know those two brave Rangers in Kismaayu; I mean "know them" and not "know of them"! I was personally offended a great deal by those Kismaayu pics as were a lot many other Uniforms I know.

Post the links if you must; anyone that wished to run them will make that choice. We can debate without the gory pictorials aisee. This TEA is about our Militaries, after all.

Porn sites in the most part will not post the graphic signage on discussion fora but provide
Links to which one must elect to visit.

jasiri Sun Sep 16 2012, 18:03

This has dragged on long enough already. . .Fabrizio, the whole blog (or a healthy percentage of the blog) took offence in the posts. Accept that, move on. There's a reason why this blog has never posted such, despite there being abundance of such gory sights. Heck! even the pic on al-shabab war dead was a mere link. Let's not get Lawery here quotes from IDHR, ICC, KCC...it's not healthy for debate, it's in bad taste esp considering we have brothers here fighting under the same flag. Haya on to A.O.B

countersniper Sun Sep 16 2012, 18:17

AOB?

I SEE a tweet from tweeting major that there is heavy fighting between AS and kdf FORCES RIGHT NOW AT jana abdallah town

jasiri Sun Sep 16 2012, 18:34

countersniper wrote:AOB?

I SEE a tweet from tweeting major that there is heavy fighting between AS and kdf FORCES RIGHT NOW AT jana abdallah town

Sorry C.Sniper, sikuona ur post on this sides of the blog...

Flying Crane Sun Sep 16 2012, 19:06

The jasiri Kid continues to impress me day by day. I say you can now dine and wine with men.
@Fabrizo.. I am trying believe me you I am trying as much a possible to deal with this matter the diplomatic way….again I say we don’t deny you your first global expression of rights but that link is disturbing to a member of staff of the board. That is enough to warrant mutual respect for removing it. It’s purely under mutual respect between you that link and a member of the blog.
Mister, to you that’s just a video clips but you don’t know what relation that clip has between it and that member. You don,t know if he was there, you don’t know if their related…we can’t jus be adamant in our discussions.Yes the vid is on various site but our standards at T.E.A dosn,t equate to those site hosted.

Suppose any uniformed member be it O.N , myself, aggressor, or risasi or spartan gets the "street drag" shall we upload a clip and discuses it as an incident or will we take that extra step of mutual understanding and respect? Its as good as that.
Yes we do discuses a lot of killings and that will not stop as long as we are in uniform. But if host image brings disturbing emotion to a member of the board be it funny or sad , I feel consideration should be taken on that issue. Again I am saying we aren’t restrain you to uploading future graphic image but if a hosed image is disturbing to a member then mutual understanding should be realized.

Fabrizio Sun Sep 16 2012, 19:27

jasiri wrote:This has dragged on long enough already. . .Fabrizio, the whole blog (or a healthy percentage of the blog) took offence in the posts. Accept that, move on. There's a reason why this blog has never posted such, despite there being abundance of such gory sights. Heck! even the pic on al-shabab war dead was a mere link. Let's not get Lawery here quotes from IDHR, ICC, KCC...it's not healthy for debate, it's in bad taste esp considering we have brothers here fighting under the same flag. Haya on to A.O.B

I trust you have read what I said. We discuss the same things in that are shown in the video I posted everyday. I have already said I will post links instead of picutres in the future if I come across them. I see no need to add or remove from it. There is no need to agree 100% on anything.

Fabrizio Sun Sep 16 2012, 20:01

Okay folks. The video is now a link. I did not realize that I could edit and make changes to what I had already posted. Hopefully that should be the last we hear of it. Unless we are discussing the circumstances relating to the content.

mogen Mon Sep 17 2012, 01:36

Fabrizio wrote:Okay folks. The video is now a link. I did not realize that I could edit and make changes to what I had already posted. Hopefully that should be the last we hear of it. Unless we are discussing the circumstances relating to the content.

@Fabrizio

Thank you for listening and considering the sensitivity of forum members.

Guest Mon Sep 17 2012, 10:39

Fabrizio wrote:Okay folks. The video is now a link. I did not realize that I could edit and make changes to what I had already posted. Hopefully that should be the last we hear of it. Unless we are discussing the circumstances relating to the content.

Hiip hiip...Hooray! Way to go @Fabrizio. Thanks, mate.

@Spartan - my query yet unanswered, soldier. Would appreciate your insight. What is this deathly silence in Kivu/Ituri? Reallignments? Mobilization? Agreement? Collapses? Withdrawals? Any change in the cast of players? Monuoc changed her see-no-evil-do-nothing posture yet? You could PM me if you can't in the clear.

Risasi Mon Sep 17 2012, 13:28

Uzi wrote:
Risasi wrote:
Spartan wrote:
Risasi wrote:My source squares a visibility study on the S.A AH-2A, Mi-28 or Ka-52 "Alligator (not to be confused with the Ka-50 "Black Shark”). Those are serious hardwares @UPDF T.E.A members…I also learned that you are waiting for the AMISOM “Mi-24’ compensation cheque + some "black gold" cash to realize the deal.

Waiting for "black gold"? Hmmm...Just to buy a few choppers $10m - $15m a piece? That's the stuff of banana republics, although we have quite a few bananas ourselves . That kind of money gets stolen every month in Uganda. Your sources better be different from those which wrote that the SUs were an oil-for-jets affair when it was actually got from reserves.

hhahaha an extra player is a plus for the whole team...lets watch this space..cheers bro

Bullet man, Given the AH-64 Longbow and MI-28N what would be ur choice?

it depends where you are in the food chain.
closest ally to the US and ready to do some boot licking, I would go for the AH-
a free ranger then I would take the Mi-,
intensive battles and over workload or having only one single model as your gunships type I would go for the AH- . Russia is known to be slow in after sale services i.e providing spare parts.
Considering running cost I would go for Mi- . more robust of the two

@Crane I didn’t know you are that intelligent man??? you handle the “hostage crises” very diplomatic Very Happy

Flying Crane Mon Sep 17 2012, 14:13

@Crane I didn’t know you are that intelligent man??? you handle the “hostage crises” very diplomatic .

oohh hoo we are cleaver man….Makerere one of the best institutions in africa, is ran and manage by Ug’s .. keep that in mind.
On a separate note: you/KDF thought you would trick us to send more gunship to assist in the capture of kismayo. you and i know gunships are frail in urban operations (black hawk down) of tall building and slow moving hence Easy and valuable targets for enemy ground fire. We saw right through you request buddies.use your own gunships .. Very Happy

try another one

@”the hostage crises”; that’s a silly man his profession belongs in the toilet If not a pit latrine . How can one whine ,cry and refuse to removing a vid clip that adds no value apart from causing distress to others. Reminds me of a silly kid in a catering shop that doesn’t want to let go of a knife cause he thinks its a play thing. ~~censored word~~

cylon wrote:That video shows the dangers that AU forces are facing everyday in Mogadishu, and it should be documented( we need video crews out there not civilian but military ones give us live footage of the battles and patrols etc)... RIP our fallen comrades

BTW could those be the new RG-31 in the video???

Aggressor1 was it these Mrap's

Those are Mambas mine resistant vehicles.

Guest Mon Sep 17 2012, 16:02

@Flying Crane - my palm to my forehead, for you. You teach crisp and to the point. Reminds of our RSM in Basic shule kitambo! Enough already, cut the young one some rope, now.

Gunships in Chai Town - with three different types Attack Gunships and two types of Heavy Utility Choppers and one type Fast Attack Gunship dedicated to SF warfare ranging all over Gedo, and running in insertions, flying CAP in Bikool and Bay, in substantive numbers too, why would KDF sucker UPDF to deploy your Gunships unless to comply with AMISOM Theater Rules in support of UGABAG operations, bana? As far as I know UGABAG is tasked to close operations in Crazy Town to ALL the Shabelles and Hiraan in synchronization with KDF /SNN / Raw Kamboni taking Kismaayu and ENDF in Bikool and Bay.

Eiish! This AMISOM thing might just lit fires which could consumes us all if we aren't careful.

countersniper Mon Sep 17 2012, 17:53

So frying crane is sayng that those helios that crushed in our holy mountain actually were not meant to arrive in the theatre. Or what?

Fabrizio Mon Sep 17 2012, 17:56

countersniper wrote:So frying crane is sayng that those helios that crushed in our holy mountain actually were not meant to arrive in the theatre. Or what?

They refused to fall for KDF's tricks. So they crashed the choppers. Very clever.

countersniper Mon Sep 17 2012, 18:00

I think flying crane is not serious....how can he write such stories? here Laughing

iam sure comrade spartan will put him straight

jasiri Mon Sep 17 2012, 18:40

On a separate note: you/KDF thought you would trick us to send more gunship to assist in the capture of kismayo. you and i know gunships are frail in urban operations (black hawk down) of tall building and slow moving hence Easy and valuable targets for enemy ground fire. We saw right through you request buddies.use your own gunships .. try another one

Are they busy in Garamba Poaching Elephants? Sometimes i think the UPDF is on a personal mission to embarrass itself.

jasiri Mon Sep 17 2012, 18:44

Fabrizio wrote:
countersniper wrote:So frying crane is sayng that those helios that crushed in our holy mountain actually were not meant to arrive in the theatre. Or what?
They refused to fall for KDF's tricks. So they crashed the choppers. Very clever.

Flying Crane Mon Sep 17 2012, 19:27

@O.N Palms on my fore head to you too buddy. We have undergone that extra tailoring. what’s on the Blog is a kids play. kismayo is going to be an acid test for KDF. Real street to street combat. I wish the best and I believe you can do it. that business of flying in lots of Heli over head doesn’t sound pretty with me but we all have different strategies to the same mission.

I think silence in Kivu/Ituri is cause by under the table negotiation. Their waiting to be called in for a mediation of the sort.

@C.sniper the heli were meant for AMISOM assist mainly Mogadishu and environments. Now KDF wants us to be part of the air assault team for Kismayo. Its risky for the amount of Gunships we now have.

@Fabrizio I understand where you coming from man I wouldn’t bother having a duel with you. do you feel a hard lump across you throat ? give it time its going to dissipate.

@jasiri have you say you entitle to one.

Guest Mon Sep 17 2012, 20:19

Flying Crane please back off Fabrizio, he did take the video down eventually. Why are people here surprised that someone posted something offensive. This Forum is open to anyone to join and unfortunately the internet is teeming and infested by millions of idiots, once they make their way here, then you will really have something to complain about, especially the online tough guys and fanboys

Flying Crane Mon Sep 17 2012, 20:22

deconstructor wrote: Flying Crane please back off Fabrizio, he did take the video down eventually. Why are people here surprised that someone posted something offensive. This Forum is open to anyone to join and unfortunately the internet is teeming and infested by millions of idiots, once they make their way here, then you will really have something to complain about, especially the online tough guys and fanboys

@deconstructor i posted earlier I don,t need any duel with that guy… they are a lot of idiots on the net as you suggest esp. sites like mashada and the likes. They don,t come here not because they have never heard about T.E.A but because of the fire power and the intellect that dwells in this cyber space. You don,t bring your nonsense here and expect to be respected and tolerated. That reminds me like you and bulletman on the F-5 issues. Finally people doubt you age when you proposed about K.E building an aircraft and left you alone. Anyway that’s how we run the show here. Once you get you posting above the 3 figure digits you will learn how the flow goes.

Guest Mon Sep 17 2012, 21:09

Flying Crane wrote:
deconstructor wrote: Flying Crane please back off Fabrizio, he did take the video down eventually. Why are people here surprised that someone posted something offensive. This Forum is open to anyone to join and unfortunately the internet is teeming and infested by millions of idiots, once they make their way here, then you will really have something to complain about, especially the online tough guys and fanboys

@deconstructor i posted earlier I don,t need any duel with that guy… they are a lot of idiots on the net as you suggest esp. sites like mashada and the likes. They don,t come here not because they have never heard about T.E.A but because of the fire power and the intellect that dwells in this cyber space. You don,t bring your nonsense here and expect to be respected and tolerated. That reminds me like you and bulletman on the F-5 issues. Finally people doubt you age when you proposed about K.E building an aircraft and left you alone. Anyway that’s how we run the show here. Once you get you posting above the 3 figure digits you will learn how the flow goes.

Flying Crane your the one who is full of nonsense.

I’ve never posted anything about K.E. building an aircraft, please check your facts before you post something.

Am not going to justify your comments with a response, because they lack any of that intellect you’ve talked about

Guest Mon Sep 17 2012, 21:44

OStand down, friends. Blue-on-blue kills just as dead. Let's refocus.

@Flying Crane. Far as I know we haven't made any aggressor moves in your sector at all. But you are in Crazy Town and middle & lower shabelle. Your Heliis were not for Chai Town but to cover your expansion into lower Shabelle and into Bay and Biskool with the Burundians. As it is now AS is emptying out of Kismaayu and moving up through your sector into Puntland. Better get your gumships in soonest.

I wrote months ago that Chai Town might fall without too much resistance. But if it comes to street-by-street, so it will be. We are mentally and physically ready and willing. A soldier's job.

Fabrizio Mon Sep 17 2012, 21:44

Flying Crane wrote:
@Fabrizio I understand where you coming from man I wouldn’t bother having a duel with you. do you feel a hard lump across you throat ? give it time its going to dissipate.

That lump. It was a soft lump. Ugali chased down by the tenderest mbuzi choma in these parts. Followed by belchs of satisfaction even as I reached for a toothpick. Ugali is key. If you understand.that as a Ugandan, then I give you props.

Kobooz Mon Sep 17 2012, 22:23

Flying Crane wrote:@Crane I didn’t know you are that intelligent man??? you handle the “hostage crises” very diplomatic .

oohh hoo we are cleaver man….Makerere one of the best institutions in africa, is ran and manage by Ug’s .. keep that in mind.
On a separate note: you/KDF thought you would trick us to send more gunship to assist in the capture of kismayo. you and i know gunships are frail in urban operations (black hawk down) of tall building and slow moving hence Easy and valuable targets for enemy ground fire. We saw right through you request buddies.use your own gunships .. try another one

@”the hostage crises”; that’s a silly man his profession belongs in the toilet If not a pit latrine . How can one whine ,cry and refuse to removing a vid clip that adds no value apart from causing distress to others. Reminds me of a silly kid in a catering shop that doesn’t want to let go of a knife cause he thinks its a play thing. ~~censored word~~
cylon wrote:That video shows the dangers that AU forces are facing everyday in Mogadishu, and it should be documented( we need video crews out there not civilian but military ones give us live footage of the battles and patrols etc)... RIP our fallen comrades

BTW could those be the new RG-31 in the video???

Aggressor1 was it these Mrap's

Those are Mambas mine resistant vehicles.

oohh hoo we are cleaver man….Makerere one of the best institutions in africa, is ran and manage by Ug’s .. keep that in mind.
On a separate note: you/KDF thought you would trick us to send more gunship to assist in the capture of kismayo. you and i know gunships are frail in urban operations (black hawk down) of tall building and slow moving hence Easy and valuable targets for enemy ground fire. We saw right through you request buddies.use your own gunships .. try another one[/color]

Man! this crap cannot sell here. Are you suggesting you sacrificed your own men to counter KDF? and you missed another counter KDF strategy? then you shouldn't even mention Makerere which used to be quite reputable then, only the vapour now. Are you saying KDF doesn't have enough gunships? ssebo try elsewhere.

mogen Tue Sep 18 2012, 03:21

People are living their lives again in Marka. Kismayu is next. Inshallah.

http://av.voanews.com/VOA_English/127/609/Somalia-Marka-al_Shabab_16x9_WEB-FCPImportProResP1-fixed-x264-Platform_YTHDFull__553582.mp4

Sponsored content

Uganda Peoples Defence Force (UPDF),