Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

aggressor one Tue Sep 04 2012, 09:19

mogen wrote:
cylon wrote:
mogen wrote:
cylon wrote:...These trenches gave problem to amisom forces in mogadishu since they were to wide for even for the APC's to cross...

@Cylon
That Mogadisho experience and others will have factored in the planning. The Generals will not let their charges down.

Those experince were already planned out months ago when people said KDF will never handle the urban terrain from our amisom members since it will from difficult to capture with possibilities of snipers, ambushes, and other attacks that is why UPDF is assisting KDF in taking the city. Since they already have the experience fighting these guys in an urban terrain. And Kismayo will be the place where jets become irrelevant and heavy use of attack choppers will come into play since they will be able to accurately take down a building full of baddies without causing to much damage on the civilian populations compared to a jet which might get wrong info and accidentally drop bombs on a house and either kill or maim the civvies which cause us a few problems. I have no doubt on KDF pedigree of taking the city since it was planned out months ago.

And this is where the Mi28 will make history

@Cylon
No doubt, the Mil Mi-28 Attack Helicopters will come in handy in the Kismayo campaign.

Some of the tunnels in Mogadishu were as long as three kilo-metres, with outlets in strategic places like roads. The militants knew them like their homes and when it came to battles-they held an advantage. In some places for example around Juba I and II, even after AMISOM captured the buildings, kamikaze militants stayed in the tunnels and continued fighting for days. In places like Florenza square and around Gashandiga, tunnel war fare led to some of the biggest casulties amongst AMISOM forces-remember the Burundian deaths? AMISOM forces after identifying the tunnels decided to dig their own tunnels running towards the militants tunnels, in other places Armored graders were used to cover the tunnels like it happened around Bondhere, before they were finally subdued.

The other large threat will come from snipers, especially if Kismayu has got high rising buildings. I am sure by now, they already have sharp shooters around the city waiting for action. I remember one of these snipers had almost brought work at Juba Hotel to a stand still because he was firing at whoever stood up, so soldiers at Juba hotel only moved by crawling, and this went on for several weeks. When his position was located, he was over 800 metres away, using a PK Machine Gun as a 'snipers rifle'. It is normally fixed with a scope and its effect is deadly. But of course with chopper support that KDF has, but which AMISOM in Mogadishu did not have at the time, these challenges may be reduced.

Observer Tue Sep 04 2012, 09:42

some news from SIN http://my stupid blog.com/?p=2982 ... Abdikadir Duecsane, Al-Shabaab Leader in Jiliib Killed By KDF Naval Missiles ... anyone with confirmation, we are talking about SIN here ...

cylon Tue Sep 04 2012, 10:13

Observer wrote:some news from SIN http://my stupid blog.com/?p=2982 ... Abdikadir Duecsane, Al-Shabaab Leader in Jiliib Killed By KDF Naval Missiles ... anyone with confirmation, we are talking about SIN here ...

BTW KDF removed all of their missiles platforms from their ships..This is probably NATO's doing

Guest Tue Sep 04 2012, 10:59

BTW KDF removed all of their missiles platforms from their ships..This is probably NATO's doing

Do you have a link with this info?

cylon Tue Sep 04 2012, 11:31

rwigi wrote:
BTW KDF removed all of their missiles platforms from their ships..This is probably NATO's doing

Do you have a link with this info?

[/quote] the Kenyan Navy's two Nyayo-class fast attack craft - missile, KNS Nyayo and KNS Umoja completed a refit that has seen them lose their surface-to-surface missile (SSM) systems, effectively reduce the vessels to a patrolling configuration. ][quote]

http://articles.janes.com/articles/Janes-Naval-Construction-and-Retrofit-Markets/Kenya-Kenya.html

Guest Tue Sep 04 2012, 12:48

cylon wrote:
rwigi wrote:
BTW KDF removed all of their missiles platforms from their ships..This is probably NATO's doing

Do you have a link with this info?

the Kenyan Navy's two Nyayo-class fast attack craft - missile, KNS Nyayo and KNS Umoja completed a refit that has seen them lose their surface-to-surface missile (SSM) systems, effectively reduce the vessels to a patrolling configuration. ]

http://articles.janes.com/articles/Janes-Naval-Construction-and-Retrofit-Markets/Kenya-Kenya.html

Well, I don't know why the missile platforms would be removed especially at a time when we need to deal with AS. However, I know KDF must have had good reasons for doing it. KNS Jasiri has since come into the picture which changes things. Plus not everything that happens in Kenyan defense circles gets known.

The story below makes interesting read;
http://tinyurl.com/bqg6q22

countersniper Tue Sep 04 2012, 13:41

so museveni thinks something more than just incompetance caused the crash on mt kenya?

quoting from the ugandan kenyan based writer here_____
First, wrong judgement by senior Uganda military forces who, he
said, “once in a while, act negligently or high-handedly resulting in
unnecessary losses.”
Or, second, sabotage. Still, even if someone in
Kenya had sent the helicopters on a dangerous path as an act of
sabotage, that should nevertheless have been figured out by the Uganda
Air Force.
This is going to get nasty.

countersniper Tue Sep 04 2012, 14:51

rwigi wrote:
cylon wrote:
rwigi wrote:
BTW KDF removed all of their missiles platforms from their ships..This is probably NATO's doing

Do you have a link with this info?

the Kenyan Navy's two Nyayo-class fast attack craft - missile, KNS Nyayo and KNS Umoja completed a refit that has seen them lose their surface-to-surface missile (SSM) systems, effectively reduce the vessels to a patrolling configuration. ]

http://articles.janes.com/articles/Janes-Naval-Construction-and-Retrofit-Markets/Kenya-Kenya.html

Well, I don't know why the missile platforms would be removed especially at a time when we need to deal with AS. However, I know KDF must have had good reasons for doing it. KNS Jasiri has since come into the picture which changes things. Plus not everything that happens in Kenyan defense circles gets known.

The story below makes interesting read;
http://tinyurl.com/bqg6q22

the refitting of kns ships was done at this Italian shipyard. we don't yet know where they took the missile systems..or what happened afterwards.
http://www.defenseworld.net/go/defensenews.jsp?n=Fincantieri%20to%20Upgrade%20Two%20Vessels%20for%20Kenya%20Navy&id=1763

mogen Tue Sep 04 2012, 14:59

countersniper wrote:so museveni thinks something more than just incompetance caused the crash on mt kenya?
This is going to get nasty.

Yes, he may be thinking sabotage. That is why things could get nasty. But I ask, whether misdirected or not the pilots had eyes to see they were headed to Mt Kenya. Maajabu.

Observer Tue Sep 04 2012, 16:36

mogen wrote:
countersniper wrote:so museveni thinks something more than just incompetance caused the crash on mt kenya?
This is going to get nasty.

Yes, he may be thinking sabotage. That is why things could get nasty. But I ask, whether misdirected or not the pilots had eyes to see they were headed to Mt Kenya. Maajabu.

as @mogen puts it, this are professional military pilots...and M7 also answers his own doubts regarding sabotage "even if someone in Kenya had sent the helicopters on a dangerous path as an act of sabotage, that should nevertheless have been figured out by the Uganda Air Force" ...

Uzi Tue Sep 04 2012, 18:22

ON where art thou? Question

mogen Wed Sep 05 2012, 01:25

aggressor one wrote:
mogen wrote:
cylon wrote:
mogen wrote:
cylon wrote:...These trenches gave problem to amisom forces in mogadishu since they were to wide for even for the APC's to cross...

@Cylon
That Mogadisho experience and others will have factored in the planning. The Generals will not let their charges down.

Those experince were already planned out months ago when people said KDF will never handle the urban terrain from our amisom members since it will from difficult to capture with possibilities of snipers, ambushes, and other attacks that is why UPDF is assisting KDF in taking the city. Since they already have the experience fighting these guys in an urban terrain. And Kismayo will be the place where jets become irrelevant and heavy use of attack choppers will come into play since they will be able to accurately take down a building full of baddies without causing to much damage on the civilian populations compared to a jet which might get wrong info and accidentally drop bombs on a house and either kill or maim the civvies which cause us a few problems. I have no doubt on KDF pedigree of taking the city since it was planned out months ago.

And this is where the Mi28 will make history

@Cylon
No doubt, the Mil Mi-28 Attack Helicopters will come in handy in the Kismayo campaign.

Some of the tunnels in Mogadishu were as long as three kilo-metres, with outlets in strategic places like roads. The militants knew them like their homes and when it came to battles-they held an advantage. In some places for example around Juba I and II, even after AMISOM captured the buildings, kamikaze militants stayed in the tunnels and continued fighting for days. In places like Florenza square and around Gashandiga, tunnel war fare led to some of the biggest casulties amongst AMISOM forces-remember the Burundian deaths? AMISOM forces after identifying the tunnels decided to dig their own tunnels running towards the militants tunnels, in other places Armored graders were used to cover the tunnels like it happened around Bondhere, before they were finally subdued.

The other large threat will come from snipers, especially if Kismayu has got high rising buildings. I am sure by now, they already have sharp shooters around the city waiting for action. I remember one of these snipers had almost brought work at Juba Hotel to a stand still because he was firing at whoever stood up, so soldiers at Juba hotel only moved by crawling, and this went on for several weeks. When his position was located, he was over 800 metres away, using a PK Machine Gun as a 'snipers rifle'. It is normally fixed with a scope and its effect is deadly. But of course with chopper support that KDF has, but which AMISOM in Mogadishu did not have at the time, these challenges may be reduced.

@aggressor one
I have heard that KDF commanders have planned and crafted a remedy for the rat holes the al kebabs have been digging in Kismayu and another one for the snipers.

There is a video clip of a US Army sniper in Iraq who stopped roadside farmers in a
particularly dangerous stretch of road. He literary 'airlifted' a man who was planting a roadside bomb. The American did that from a distance of 1300metres away. I will find that clip and post it here.

al kebaabs should know they are finished as a fighting force. In Marka they tried to stop an advancing AMISOM force by digging a tunnel across the road but Marka was taken anyway. For the Kismayu obstacles KDF/AMISOM wana dawa.

https://youtu.be/QgTZsgL-UAg

Also: al kebaabs' heinous descretion of the remains of our fallen heroes has backfired on them. Resentment is sweeping across Kismayo against the al-Shabaab militants for their despicable actions. Somali tribal leaders, clerics and human rights activists have condemned al-Shabaab's heinous crimes as a violation of the sanctity of human life and dignity. They said: "Al-Shabaab has resorted to inhuman and immoral acts…that are far removed from Islam and civilised humanity"

http://sabahionline.com/en_GB/articles/hoa/articles/features/2012/09/04/feature-01

The brigands' days are over.

mogen Wed Sep 05 2012, 10:56

Reportedly, there have been heavy gun battles between Somali government forces backed by the KDF and the Al-Shabaab at Janay Cabdalla area, which is a suburb of Kismayo. Details are scanty.

The silent uniforms are probably too busy elsewhere hence their silence here.

UncleBoni Wed Sep 05 2012, 11:49

I came across this interesting infographic as I was crawling the web - http://pesatalk.com/2012/08/how-much-it-costs-to-arm-an-officer-infograph/

How legit is this info?

edmuiru Wed Sep 05 2012, 12:18

mogen wrote:Reportedly, there have been heavy gun battles between Somali government forces backed by the KDF and the Al-Shabaab at Janay Cabdalla area, which is a suburb of Kismayo. Details are scanty.

The silent uniforms are probably too busy elsewhere hence their silence here.

This would be very interesting

mogen Wed Sep 05 2012, 14:40

edmuiru wrote:
mogen wrote:Reportedly, there have been heavy gun battles between Somali government forces backed by the KDF and the Al-Shabaab at Janay Cabdalla area, which is a suburb of Kismayo. Details are scanty.

The silent uniforms are probably too busy elsewhere hence their silence here.

This would be very interesting

@edmuiru

Intelligence Briefs (aka SIN) is now reporting that KDF Special Forces + TFG forces attacked Janay Cabdalla with large numbers of A.S. fighters neutralized. Methinks, there is a great deal of action going on in that theatre.

And here too; http://www.gubta.com/2012/09/03/somalia-kismayu-port-bombed-as-fresh-battle-renews-near-the-town

UPDF + TFG are also massing for a siege of Jowhar. Shortly the al kebaabs will have nowhere to run. The massive force
heading their way won't be stopped by trenches or snippers.

The eerie silence of our uniforms is deafening. Bwana

Batian Wed Sep 05 2012, 16:09

[/quote]These challenges notwithstanding, the KDF has achieved a measure of
success - albeit due to factors largely outside of its control. Due to
internal fissures, draconian tactics targeting civilian populations, and
its inability to respond to the famine in areas under its control in
mid-2011, Al-Shabaab had been in decline for several months prior to
Kenya's invasion. This trajectory has continued well into 2012. After
its 'tactical retreat' from Mogadishu in August 2011, Al-Shabaab was
pushed from Afgoye in Lower Shabelle by AMISOM and TFG troops in May
2012, just days before the KDF and TFG-affiliated militias pushed them
from Afmadow in Lower Juba. Adding to the pressure from AMISOM, TFG and
KDF troops, the Ethiopian National Defense Forces (ENDF), working with
the government-aligned Somali militia Ahlu Sunna Wal Jamaca (ASWJ), had
re-entered Somalia in November 2011, this time restricting their
operations to the Bay, Bakool, Galgaduud, Gedo and Hiraan regions
immediately adjacent to Ethiopia's border with Somalia. Rather than
facing these offensives head-on, Al-Shabaab has either melted into the
local population or dispersed to the Galgala Mountains in Puntland in
northern Somalia, as well as to Yemen and parts of East Africa. Thus, in
spite of the initial challenges the KDF faced upon entering Somalia,
the co-ordinated, multinational, multi-front offensive has put Al
Shabaab, which was already weakened, in further disarray. [/quote]

http://www.rusi.org/analysis/commentary/ref:C504724175C109/#.UEdNTlLnY6o

As I was perusing I stumbled upon this commentary; Alshabaab are almost disappearing and on the decline. It just keeps getting more and more interesting................

Fabrizio Wed Sep 05 2012, 16:49

Batian wrote:
These challenges notwithstanding, the KDF has achieved a measure of
success - albeit due to factors largely outside of its control. Due to
internal fissures, draconian tactics targeting civilian populations, and
its inability to respond to the famine in areas under its control in
mid-2011, Al-Shabaab had been in decline for several months prior to
Kenya's invasion. This trajectory has continued well into 2012. After
its 'tactical retreat' from Mogadishu in August 2011, Al-Shabaab was
pushed from Afgoye in Lower Shabelle by AMISOM and TFG troops in May
2012, just days before the KDF and TFG-affiliated militias pushed them
from Afmadow in Lower Juba. Adding to the pressure from AMISOM, TFG and
KDF troops, the Ethiopian National Defense Forces (ENDF), working with
the government-aligned Somali militia Ahlu Sunna Wal Jamaca (ASWJ), had
re-entered Somalia in November 2011, this time restricting their
operations to the Bay, Bakool, Galgaduud, Gedo and Hiraan regions
immediately adjacent to Ethiopia's border with Somalia. Rather than
facing these offensives head-on, Al-Shabaab has either melted into the
local population or dispersed to the Galgala Mountains in Puntland in
northern Somalia, as well as to Yemen and parts of East Africa. Thus, in
spite of the initial challenges the KDF faced upon entering Somalia,
the co-ordinated, multinational, multi-front offensive has put Al
Shabaab, which was already weakened, in further disarray.

http://www.rusi.org/analysis/commentary/ref:C504724175C109/#.UEdNTlLnY6o

As I was perusing I stumbled upon this commentary; Alshabaab are almost disappearing and on the decline. It just keeps getting more and more interesting................

We will control Kismayo when all is said and done. What does it matter what these patronizing scribes think?

Sierra Kilo Wed Sep 05 2012, 18:04

Can anyone tell the Alkebabs that we are begging them not to run away from Kismayo like the way they ran from Afmadow. Let them put up a fight so that they can be shown how it is done.

cylon Wed Sep 05 2012, 22:25

mogen wrote:Reportedly, there have been heavy gun battles between Somali government forces backed by the KDF and the Al-Shabaab at Janay Cabdalla area, which is a suburb of Kismayo. Details are scanty.

The silent uniforms are probably too busy elsewhere hence their silence here.

I read about this on one of Ole Nakeri tweets this morning he said something about the Tea in Kismayo is boiling hot

The Blue Thu Sep 06 2012, 15:22

cylon wrote:
mogen wrote:Reportedly, there have been heavy gun battles between Somali government forces backed by the KDF and the Al-Shabaab at Janay Cabdalla area, which is a suburb of Kismayo. Details are scanty.

The silent uniforms are probably too busy elsewhere hence their silence here.

I read about this on one of Ole Nakeri tweets this morning he said something about the Tea in Kismayo is boiling hot

What is @ON's twitter handle?

Fabrizio Thu Sep 06 2012, 16:12

A statement by Oguna suggests that all the five missing soldiers after the battle at Miido died. I had been under the impression all along that three were found alive. The way this war is reported leaves my head spinning. Everything must be cross-checked with numerous other sources before you get a vague idea of what happened. I pray that the confusion does not extend to the operations on the field.

Two Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) soldiers who went missing last week after the capture of Miido town in Somalia are feared dead.

Defence forces Information Operations Officer Colonel Cyrus Oguna said the two are believed to have been taken to Kismayu by the militants.

Oguna condemned the posting of pictures of slain soldiers on social media terming the act as barbaric.

He did not confirm whether the missing soldiers were among those in the pictures.

“A social medium supporting the Al Shabaab have posted pictures of KDF and allied forces soldiers neutralized in combat. This is an outward sign of Al Shabaab’s inhumane face and the extent of their barbaric character,” he stated

He said such acts among other atrocities advocated for by the militant group continue to assure Kenyan troops that the cause to rid Somalia of the Al Shabaab is worthy and for the good of all.

Oguna said the two soldiers were among five who went missing after a clash with the Al Shabaab militants at Miido town on August 31.

KDF managed to recover three bodies of the missing five.

Last week, KDF and Somalia National Army (SNA) troops captured Al Shabaab stronghold at Miido.

During the clash, 106 Al Shabaab militants were killed; 36 died in Miido town and 70 more were killed while in airstrikes while fleeing at Bibi and Jana Cabdala.

Five KDF soldiers were injured and are undergoing medical treatment in Garissa and Nairobi.

Chief of the Defence Forces Gen Julius Karangi pays tribute to the bravery of all soldiers who were involved in the capture of Miido and sent his condolence to the families of those who lost their loved ones.

mogen Thu Sep 06 2012, 16:47

Fabrizio wrote:A statement by Oguna suggests that all the five missing soldiers after the battle at Miido died. I had been under the impression all along that three were found alive. The way this war is reported leaves my head spinning. Everything must be cross-checked with numerous other sources before you get a vague idea of what happened. I pray that the confusion does not extend to the operations on the field.

@Fabrizio
Everywhere, reports indicate2 KIA, 3 MIA. Then the 3MIA were rescued. Two confirmed KIA. This new story is probably incorrect.
We can ask the tweeting Major to clarify. He is usually quick to respond.

Nesta Thu Sep 06 2012, 17:06

The tweeting Major, with all due respect, needs to be a bit more careful. He needs to respond to the claims that he indicated that the marehan clan was supporting al-shabaab. Y did he have to say this?

mogen Thu Sep 06 2012, 17:09

Nesta wrote:The tweeting Major, with all due respect, needs to be a bit more careful. He needs to respond to the claims that he indicated that the marehan clan was supporting al-shabaab. Y did he have to say this?

He said he was misquoted and asked the newspaper to make the correction. Haven't seen a correction.

Analyst Thu Sep 06 2012, 17:32

Major Chirchir encounters these media challenges due to the dynamic aspect of the environment/theater.

The Maheran indeed had swore never to work with KDF but the changing political-military environment in Somalia has forced senior elders to reconsider their position.

I.E....Most Maheran drawn fighters (local Al-Shabaabs) have not been paid hence lay down their war machine. Such are the dynamics haranguing the press office at KDF.

Loss of troops is not strange in such environment, in-fact the boys have been gallant besides ensuring minimal losses.

The media may also be a serious problem with most houses jumping at every opportunity to publish anything that they triangulate without properly verifying/cross-checking facts and references.

Nesta Thu Sep 06 2012, 21:49

They were "captured" by the alshabaab

http://boramanews.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2264&catid=34&Itemid=53

cylon Thu Sep 06 2012, 22:32

Nesta wrote:They were "captured" by the alshabaab

http://boramanews.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2264&catid=34&Itemid=53

Damn that is a shame if that is all the equipment they recovered from just robbing a supply truck( looks like they got them selves one of those mounted Howitzers). They even have our radio equipment( can they monitor our radio signals???) Looks they also recovered some manpads... Again its a damn shame we lost this equipment made them just a bit stronger

@ The blue ON twitter is Ole Nakeri

proud kenyan Thu Sep 06 2012, 22:51

cylon wrote:
Nesta wrote:They were "captured" by the alshabaab

http://boramanews.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2264&catid=34&Itemid=53

Damn that is a shame if that is all the equipment they recovered from just robbing a supply truck( looks like they got them selves one of those mounted Howitzers). They even have our radio equipment( can they monitor our radio signals???) Looks they also recovered some manpads... Again its a damn shame we lost this equipment made them just a bit stronger

@ The blue ON twitter is Ole Nakeri

now you guys are getting paranoid..the tweeting major said five were missing,later the spec ops guys found three soldiers,the other two were presumed KIA,and he even went as far as telling the kismayu residents to note where they were buried so that when KDF gets to chismayu they can retrieve their comrades for the hero's burial we all know they deserve.
the pics posted in the above site..i dont think they are kenyan,because even the simplest of military vehicles have the dark green colour which blends real well with the Zoomaliya setting..maybe TFG transportation

Analyst Thu Sep 06 2012, 22:57

Guys...i cant believe this.....would you expect a whole truck to be taken without KDF helicopters trailing it seiously?

Where are the number plates KA 34 ETC?

Why would KDF have MANPADS?....Does Al-Shabaab have an airforce or helicopters to shoot down?

That truck...does KDF use Bedford? They use Steyer and Leyland trucks.

What about those Motorola Radios?......

The Al-Shabaab is good at propaganda.
It requires a hawk eye and a well informed security expert to verify this stage managed Al-Kebab nonsense

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