Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Nesta wrote:Now that the guys have decided to come back and fight; how long do you guys think it will take for Kismayu to fall after the battle begins?

Here they are patrolling kismayu

Risaala Media Corp wrote:British ambassador to the United Nations Mark Lyall Grant condemned Kenya for its navy campaign in Somalia that caused a lot of harm in Kismayu England’s ambassador to the United Nations said Kenya’s navy is not part of the AMISOM operations in Somalia.

He urged the Security Council to take action against Kenya’s navy campaign that left dead many civilians in Kismayu which is the headquarter of Al Shabaab. Lyall Grant said Kenya’s ground force is part of AMISOM but its navy is not and they should be held accountable. The kenya's navy have repeatedly shelled Kismayu from the ocean killing many civilians and injuring others.

mogen wrote:

Risaala Media Corp wrote:British ambassador to the United Nations Mark Lyall Grant condemned Kenya for its navy campaign in Somalia that caused a lot of harm in Kismayu England’s ambassador to the United Nations said Kenya’s navy is not part of the AMISOM operations in Somalia.

He urged the Security Council to take action against Kenya’s navy campaign that left dead many civilians in Kismayu which is the headquarter of Al Shabaab. Lyall Grant said Kenya’s ground force is part of AMISOM but its navy is not and they should be held accountable. The kenya's navy have repeatedly shelled Kismayu from the ocean killing many civilians and injuring others.

http://www.risaala.net/view.php?id=7924

So, they'd rather we lost men, machine and failed in Kismayu for lack of aerial and sea assets? Twisted logic, hey!

Q. Thanks a lot. I wanted to ask you about one – you mentioned
Al-Shabaab, and there’s been a lot of reports in recent days of the
Kenyan Army and AMISOM closing in on Kismayo, and also some shelling
from ships that are said to be in the Kenyan Navy. I’m wondering 1) what
you can say about this kind of end game with Al-Shabaab, but a question
arose, whether the Kenyan navy was part of AMISOM, was it ever approved
by the Council, are you paying for the ships, and if, what safeguards
are in place for this, essentially, shelling into Kismayo that some
people say has killed at least three civilians?


A. Well, it has always been a long term objective of both AMISOM and
the Somali authorities to take back control of Kismayo from Al-Shabaab.
I’m not going to comment on the timetable for that, or the plans for
that. But that is clearly an objective and it’s an objective that will
be pursued. In terms of the Kenyan naval assets, they are not formally
part of AMISOM. The Kenyan troops since June, when the MoU was signed
with the African Union, have become part of AMISOM and are being funded
accordingly. But the Kenyan naval assets are funded by the Kenyans and
are not part of AMISOM.

Q. I guess it’s…something I’ve been trying to figure out for a
few days. Since it’s working obviously in coordination with AMISOM, and
there are at least reports, Human Rights Watch put out a report that a
pregnant woman and two children were killed by the shelling, how does
the Council ensure that something that’s part of a mission that it
authorised, that there’s human rights monitoring, and safeguards in
place for the whole operation, and not only part of it.


A. Well, that is a general challenge that goes beyond the case of
Somalia. There are other examples of regional organisations that are
authorised, mandated, by the Security Council to take action. Now
obviously, when it is a full UN peacekeeping operation with blue berets,
there is a more direct control on the part of the UN system and on the
part of the Security Council on issues like human rights. With the case
of AMISOM, it is a more distant, hands off relationship. But
nonetheless, it is a UN authorised mission and we do expect AMISOM to
abide by international standards of human rights and humanitarian law,
and we have no reason to think that they are not doing so.

Nesta wrote:

mogen wrote:

Risaala Media Corp wrote:British ambassador to the United Nations Mark Lyall Grant condemned Kenya for its navy campaign in Somalia that caused a lot of harm in Kismayu England’s ambassador to the United Nations said Kenya’s navy is not part of the AMISOM operations in Somalia.

He urged the Security Council to take action against Kenya’s navy campaign that left dead many civilians in Kismayu which is the headquarter of Al Shabaab. Lyall Grant said Kenya’s ground force is part of AMISOM but its navy is not and they should be held accountable. The kenya's navy have repeatedly shelled Kismayu from the ocean killing many civilians and injuring others.

http://www.risaala.net/view.php?id=7924

So, they'd rather we lost men, machine and failed in Kismayu for lack of aerial and sea assets? Twisted logic, hey!

Please Mogen; be very careful when dealing with Somali websites; There are three main types:

1. Clan based (fully fledged.)
2. TFG Supporters (partly clan based)
3. Al-shaaab (partly clan based.)

No reputable media has reported on this.

S.I.N. wrote:

Kenya defense forces have started taking control of the the Somali port of Kismayu, the last bastion of the militant terrorist outfit Al-Shabaab. While the port is not completely liberated, KDF special forces are already taking out members of the Al-Shabaab elite forces who are giving a last fight. KDF elite forces are operating from the west of the city of Kismayu while others have landed in the beaches of the port, Strategic Intelligence service confirms. KDF special forces, a mixture of different elite forces landed from the sea while others landed from their helicopters and another battalion hit the port from the west.... S.I.N. at ?p=3080

Nesta wrote:May be true may be false; But KDF usually takes time before confirming - Just like Jana Cabdalla

mchoraji wrote:It's really getting interesting.now Amisom has just urged other forces in jubaland read KAF & KN. to avoid loss of civvies lives saying Amisom forces are 50km from kismayo.anyone shelling from the air or sea aint amisom.Does someone high up in the amisom command really want the kenyan contingent to fail??? the other day their spokesman was saying the same thing

mogen wrote:

mchoraji wrote:It's really getting interesting.now Amisom has just urged other forces in jubaland read KAF & KN. to avoid loss of civvies lives saying Amisom forces are 50km from kismayo.anyone shelling from the air or sea aint amisom.Does someone high up in the amisom command really want the kenyan contingent to fail??? the other day their spokesman was saying the same thing

Everyone knows KDF will succeed. Even alkebabs are complaining about our navy. Maybe they want level the 'playing field' which unfortunately will increase Kenya's human cost. Maybe, the air and sea assets are offering so much protection to our uniforms that AMISOM forces in Crazy Town never had. Twisted logic, hey!.

mchoraji wrote:It's really getting interesting.now Amisom has just urged other forces in jubaland read KAF & KN. to avoid loss of civvies lives saying Amisom forces are 50km from kismayo.anyone shelling from the air or sea aint amisom.Does someone high up in the amisom command really want the kenyan contingent to fail??? the other day their spokesman was saying the same thing

mogen wrote:

mchoraji wrote:It's really getting interesting.now Amisom has just urged other forces in jubaland read KAF & KN. to avoid loss of civvies lives saying Amisom forces are 50km from kismayo.anyone shelling from the air or sea aint amisom.Does someone high up in the amisom command really want the kenyan contingent to fail??? the other day their spokesman was saying the same thing

Everyone knows KDF will succeed. Even alkebabs are complaining about our navy. Maybe they want level the 'playing field' which unfortunately will increase Kenya's human cost. Maybe, the air and sea assets are offering so much protection to our uniforms that AMISOM forces in Crazy Town never had. Twisted logic, hey!.

mogen wrote:SIN tweeting that UPDF & Burundi soldiers refused to move southwards and retreated instead!! If indeed that is true, it would be very curious. http://t.co/DsyzCN5a

Spartan wrote:

mogen wrote:SIN tweeting that UPDF & Burundi soldiers refused to move southwards and retreated instead!! If indeed that is true, it would be very curious. http://t.co/DsyzCN5a

SIN...Really? I thought we agreed not to take those guys seriously. But so you know, there is no 'refuse' in the vocabulary of UPDF. Even refusing to eat food, if it can be determined that it was organised, is mutiny/mugomo. In the UPDF, any mutiny or cowardice is punishable by death. And Lt. Gen. Guti, heavens help you if you are serving under him, will put the whole unit on the next plane home to face a GCM.

mogen wrote:Reminds of what Gen McCarthy once said when asked why his forces were retreating. He said: '...we are advancing in another direction'

Spartan wrote:

mogen wrote:Reminds of what Gen McCarthy once said when asked why his forces were retreating. He said: '...we are advancing in another direction'

Now that was original, and witty.

Retreating serves many purposes, among them;
1. The attack may have lost momentum, so you retreat, re-org and attack with even better force.
2. The ground of tactical importance may be with the enemy, what 'jeshi la mugu' call 'hali ya ardhi'. In that situation, you would rather fight on your ground than on theirs. So you 'withdraw' only to suck them into your current position, and hopefully, give them a hiding.
3. The enemy may have you well mapped out and it's pointless to go on with the fight, especially if they dorminated their ground earlier than you did yours.
4. Psychological warfare.

That retreat, if indeed it happened, could have been done for any number of reasons. The problem is that there's this narrative that Ugandan and Burundian battle groups on the one hand, are not on good terms with their Kenyan counterparts, which I must admit, sells newspapers. I don't know whether it's just me, but I got a strong whiff of that narrative in the SIN report. But that sentiment is wrong and plays into the hands of the enemy of us all.
That's the point I was trying to make in the two posts

Spartan wrote:

mogen wrote:Reminds of what Gen McCarthy once said when asked why his forces were retreating. He said: '...we are advancing in another direction'

Now that was original, and witty.

Retreating serves many purposes, among them;
1. The attack may have lost momentum, so you retreat, re-org and attack with even better force.
2. The ground of tactical importance may be with the enemy, what 'jeshi la mugu' call 'hali ya ardhi'. In that situation, you would rather fight on your ground than on theirs. So you 'withdraw' only to suck them into your current position, and hopefully, give them a hiding.
3. The enemy may have you well mapped out and it's pointless to go on with the fight, especially if they dorminated their ground earlier than you did yours.
4. Psychological warfare.

That retreat, if indeed it happened, could have been done for any number of reasons. The problem is that there's this narrative that Ugandan and Burundian battle groups on the one hand, are not on good terms with their Kenyan counterparts, which I must admit, sells newspapers. I don't know whether it's just me, but I got a strong whiff of that narrative in the SIN report. But that sentiment is wrong and plays into the hands of the enemy of us all.

That's the point I was trying to make in the two posts

aggressor one wrote:

Spartan wrote:

mogen wrote:Reminds of what Gen McCarthy once said when asked why his forces were retreating. He said: '...we are advancing in another direction'

Now that was original, and witty.

Retreating serves many purposes, among them;
1. The attack may have lost momentum, so you retreat, re-org and attack with even better force.
2. The ground of tactical importance may be with the enemy, what 'jeshi la mugu' call 'hali ya ardhi'. In that situation, you would rather fight on your ground than on theirs. So you 'withdraw' only to suck them into your current position, and hopefully, give them a hiding.
3. The enemy may have you well mapped out and it's pointless to go on with the fight, especially if they dorminated their ground earlier than you did yours.
4. Psychological warfare.

That retreat, if indeed it happened, could have been done for any number of reasons. The problem is that there's this narrative that Ugandan and Burundian battle groups on the one hand, are not on good terms with their Kenyan counterparts, which I must admit, sells newspapers. I don't know whether it's just me, but I got a strong whiff of that narrative in the SIN report. But that sentiment is wrong and plays into the hands of the enemy of us all.

That's the point I was trying to make in the two posts

A few weeks ago, i read a story in Daily Nation that elements of UPDF and Burundi forces had reached a town called Harbole which is around 80kms from Kismayu. i cross checked through sources in Mogadishu and realized that this was another lie! The forces in Harbole were actually KDF. So i think there is a plan by some people, including the media to create situations that may injure the joint Somali operations.

As far as i know, UPDF and Burundi forces are continuing with their advances in the various sectors under their control. By yesterday, they had gone beyond Marka, moving south-wards and in the north, were in the final stages of capturing Johwar, leaving Baraawe as the only town under Al shabaab in Sector I.

Code:

proud kenyan wrote:this story of sabotage by AMISOM can only come in due to uncles sam and johnnie,the SIN guy has a valid point here
http://my stupid blog.com/?p=3082, especcially this parts
AMISOM in mid September 2012, directly attacked Kenya defense forces by
denying that KDF air-force and naval force were not part of AMISOM
assets.
KDF is arguably the only military in the world to manage pacifying
Somalia from scratch whereby, they have used equipment and a budget that
is way small compared to the West’s mega budgets that end up in loss of
life and damage of economies.

Nesta wrote:

Code:

proud kenyan wrote:this story of sabotage by AMISOM can only come in due to uncles sam and johnnie,the SIN guy has a valid point here
http://my stupid blog.com/?p=3082, especcially this parts
AMISOM in mid September 2012, directly attacked Kenya defense forces by
denying that KDF air-force and naval force were not part of AMISOM
assets.
KDF is arguably the only military in the world to manage pacifying
Somalia from scratch whereby, they have used equipment and a budget that
is way small compared to the West’s mega budgets that end up in loss of
life and damage of economies.

The SIN guy is talking rubbish;

UPDF did that, and the only equivalent of a "Mogadishu" that KDF will face is "Kismayu." I am confident of KDF's ability to handle Kismayu; but i wouldn't dare be arrogant of the same.

First, whatever the British and AMISOM said, was the truth;
KDF Naval and Air Assets are not part of AMISOM. These statements were not just
taken from the blue; they were as a result of questions being asked by activists-cum-journalists
who have their own agenda. I would urge People here not to fall into their
trap. The aim is to divide the various forces within AMISOM.

The second thing is that AMISOM Has no choice but to tow the
line scripted – at least with their words – by the so called international
community. Although the Soldier talking on behalf of AMISOM serves in the UPDF,
he not speaking on behalf of Uganda. Just as when our forces have served in
various U.N. peacekeeping missions they did not speak in their capacity as KDF
officers.



Everyone knows how ENDF has been fighting in Somalia. But have you heard anyone trying to lecture
them on how to reduce civilian casualties?
And how many people have died in Libya,
Iraq, Afghanistan
with their “caution”? Did they demand the safe caution from NTC fighters in Libya?




I think what is bothering these guys is that they really do
not want to see an African solution to an African problem. Do you remember How
many times M7 pleaded with the international community to provide more funding
for AMISOM so that he could provide more troops? All these fell on deaf ears. I’m sure UPDF
would have gone very far if they had received support, when everyone else was
afraid. They refused to fund KDF's Air and Naval assets. Now see Nigeria sending
140 troops to Mogadishu
when UPDF/BDF had already done all the dirty work.

The truth is, the amount of money that’s the IC is Spending
on AMISOM is extremely low compared to what would have been spent if it were in
a US
operation; & believe me you it would have been less effective than what we
as Africans have managed to achieve.

I'll not dismiss S.I.N. off hand. Many times I have disbelieved but counter-checked only to confirm that their sources were right. of course there are times they get it wrong. I hear them but check it out elsewhere.

The only question I'd ask those complaining about/disowning KDF's use of air and naval assets in theatre is: Don't they understand that our soldiers needed cover?

Moreover, those assets are actually part of the reason why KDF has been a real game changer in AMISOM's campaign in Soomaaliya. Of course, every force commander anywhere ensures the uniforms are not unnecessarily exposed to the enemy. KDF and allies couldn't go far so quickly without the deployment of the Air Cavalry's assets. Even al kebabs know that. Amazing, ehe

Perhaps this old picture says something about Westerners more than the late Ethiopian leader:

proud kenyan wrote:this story of sabotage by AMISOM can only come in due to uncles sam and johnnie,the SIN guy has a valid point here
http://my stupid blog.com/?p=3082, especcially this parts
AMISOM in mid September 2012, directly attacked Kenya defense forces by
denying that KDF air-force and naval force were not part of AMISOM
assets.
KDF is arguably the only military in the world to manage pacifying
Somalia from scratch whereby, they have used equipment and a budget that
is way small compared to the West’s mega budgets that end up in loss of
life and damage of economies.
KDF winning the urban warfare in Afmadow and Kismayu signals a
significant strategic capacity in both leadership of the army and the
ability of its soldiers to execute their war strategy expeditiously.

The UN has started warning KDF to prevent loss of lives in Kismayu
while AMISOM has started denying KDF air and naval assets to operate
under its banner.

More West analysts feel KDF glory in Somalia ridicules the Wests
super-armed army, modern technology attack jets and helicopters, laser
guided missiles, and hefty budgets that have rather brought down
economies and brought more misery to countries like Libya, Iraq, and
Afghanistan than any good.


my question is:isnt AMISOM in zoomaliya for the greater good of the zoomaliyans?or is it that the funds providers(read UK,US) give funds and instructions on what to do..all countries with troops in Zoomaliya have a common problem:pacify a country and providing security while ensuring minimal loss of their soldiers. though there might be a bitter sense of injustice for the americans since in 1993 they lost a black hawk and many troops hence wondering why the kenyan soldiers are still going strong and succeeding where they failed miserably. the air and naval assets were brought in because the kenyan general in charge of the operation foresaw a need for these in the theatre,the ugandan (and burundian) general(s) should have requested for such hardware.
i feel that at this point the Jubbaland initiative would be better security-wise for kenyana as compared with united somalia,though this should be a last resort when everything else has failed

Police issue alert over credible reports that 2 Egyptians, 2 Moroccans and a Frenchman left Kismayu last week for a terrorism mission in Kenya.

cylon wrote:Once Kismayo is bagged and tagged i hope the kenyan government will deploy the army corp of engineers to go rebuild the place. Such as roads, upgrading of hospitals, upgrading of the airport etc.. only way we can keep the turks away from our quadrant( then land a KQ plane there and open the place up for kenyan investments).. Then from there we rebuild the road from Mandera all the way to afarmdow, then to kismayo hiring idle somali youth to join in the campaign of rebuilding southern somalia( Azania can work)

I hope the Ole man is thinking about this....