Re: REGIONAL DISCUSSIONS:

Guest Sat Mar 24 2012, 16:31

Spartan wrote:
ole Nkarei wrote:@Spartan – obviously you chaps in the UPDF have every right to build War Simulations using whatever matrix your brass choses, including ‘’waging war around Mombasa’’ ‘’protecting your export sea route’’ – logically the only check being a degree of realism, the possibility of occurrence and depth of force-ability (planned or existing). UPDF-AF fighting around Mombasa for whatever reason anytime soon? That, my brother, breaks the glass jar!! If Kenya faces seaborne aggression that is so overwhelming as to need assistance from anyone, there is little the UPDF will be able to do to help stem it. Do you see KDF and UPDF up against a full-fledged multi-pronged invasion by Johnny and his cousins? I don't!

Now, I did not doubt the capacity of the Kh-31A1. I just said that the UPDF-AF does not have it. This babe is ‘’Ship-Specific’’ due to range and payload – and the UPDF-AF is not coming within 800Km of Mombasa anytime soon!! At a cost of USD650,000 a piece, 30 units could buy munitions and ordnance that is more specific to the realistic needs of the UPDF, even two mi24 Gunships so desperately demanded in Crazy town.

Man, that was just my humble two cents not the 'War Simulations' of the UPDF. Suffice to say, I withdraw them henceforth. As for the ship missiles, the SU-30MK2 was chosen for its avionics that afford it maritime attack capabilities, period. And for that, it is more expensive than others in the SU-30 family. You don't expect UPDAF to forego the munitions for the very capabilities it bought the plane for, do you?

As for the Mi24s, we can do the job with or without them. And yes, UPDAF is not coming to Mombasa anytime soon, but reserves the right to develop the capability to reach there.

1. I am not wrong to expect your usually weighty two-cents to be based on Military Realism, Possibility of Occurrence and Force-ability, Spartan. i.e Simulated probability. Heck, this is a Military Blog. UPDF procured the Sukhois for this purpose– simulated force projection across borders into what UPDF considered their strategic National Sphere. It is also the reason KDF will always prepare and engender overwhelming force capacity and willingness to obliterate possible UPDF force-projection beyond Busia!! And to make a‘’reverse force projection’’. Hopefully, that day may never come, but …

2. Btw, there is a whole multitude of munitions that use the Sukhois as a launch platform, some generalized other specific to certain challenges and usage. Trick is to optimize to your needs and challenge. Anti-ship Cruise Missiles in Uganda is like driving a Ferrari fitted with giant soft beach tyres.

3. You never answered if the present large scale movement that is being reported up north is a mobilization of sorts, and against who? Certainly not GoSS. Don’t break protocols.

Olekoima Sat Mar 24 2012, 16:37

countersniper wrote:[
btw
i see your men in AMISOM are complaining about unfair wages deductions from their earnings while serving in Somalia.
They say they are loosing 200 dollars per month deducted for unknown reasons.
surely would it not be better to pay these guys tax free?

http://www.monitor.co.ug/News/National/-/688334/1372114/-/awrj5uz/-/index.html?

i can see UPDF is deploying another 5000 MEN to hunt for kony?

This is actually unfair in my view. There should be a better way for the government to benefit other than taxing the very fellow who has sacrificed his own life for the sake of country/region. Why can't this money come from the AU directly instead of it being recovered from payslips? Doesn't this serve to dampen morale?

Sierra Kilo Sat Mar 24 2012, 16:54

ole Nkarei wrote:You never answered if the present large scale movement that is being reported up north is a mobilization of sorts, and against who? Certainly not GoSS. Don’t break protocols.

Countersniper wrote:http://www.monitor.co.ug/News/National/-/688334/1372114/-/awrj5uz/-/index.html?
i can see UPDF is deploying another 5000 MEN to hunt for kony?

Any semblance here??

Olekoima Sat Mar 24 2012, 17:01

Sierra Kilo wrote:
ole Nkarei wrote:You never answered if the present large scale movement that is being reported up north is a mobilization of sorts, and against who? Certainly not GoSS. Don’t break protocols.
Countersniper wrote:http://www.monitor.co.ug/News/National/-/688334/1372114/-/awrj5uz/-/index.html?
i can see UPDF is deploying another 5000 MEN to hunt for kony?

Any semblance here??

I don't think. I thought they said that the 5,000 men were from the African Union. Did they really say UPDF? I think the mobilization in the north if any is for something else. Read this link:-

http://allafrica.com/stories/201203240174.html

countersniper Sat Mar 24 2012, 17:06

@ole
you are spot on..a few years back i was privy to simulated studies on how to stop a perceived Ugandan aggression if it ever came and the conclusions were never to allow anything further than webuye busia malaba maximum kericho axis.

On the large scale movement of troops by updf up north..we are getting info they are re energizing the hunt for kony by up to 5000 new men.already there are those 100 so called obama special forces advisory boys running around those villages archiving nothing.
While the politicians are saying the knoy 2012 video is chasing away tourists...so the response is to appear to do something..
but the irony is that they are deploying these 5000 UPDF soldiers into GOSS territory. i eonder if SILVA kir is swallowing this very bitter pill and what price he is paying.
if it was me ..never trust m7.

countersniper Sat Mar 24 2012, 17:13

Olekoima wrote:
Sierra Kilo wrote:
ole Nkarei wrote:You never answered if the present large scale movement that is being reported up north is a mobilization of sorts, and against who? Certainly not GoSS. Don’t break protocols.
Countersniper wrote:http://www.monitor.co.ug/News/National/-/688334/1372114/-/awrj5uz/-/index.html?
i can see UPDF is deploying another 5000 MEN to hunt for kony?

Any semblance here??

I don't think. I thought they said that the 5,000 men were from the African Union. Did they really say UPDF? I think the mobilization in the north if any is for something else. Read this link:-

http://allafrica.com/stories/201203240174.html

i doubt if the knoy problem is that big to warrant such a response.who is funding this?if funding AU in Somalia was a problem until UN.EU came in ..i think M7 is just looking for an excuse to station his men in GOSS land for other expansionist reasons or simply to keep his boys busy.

Olekoima Sat Mar 24 2012, 17:14

countersniper wrote:@ole
you are spot on..a few years back i was privy to simulated studies on how to stop a perceived Ugandan aggression if it ever came and the conclusions were never to allow anything further than webuye busia malaba maximum kericho axis.

On the large scale movement of troops by updf up north..we are getting info they are re energizing the hunt for kony by up to 5000 new men.already there are those 100 so called obama special forces advisory boys running around those villages archiving nothing.
While the politicians are saying the knoy 2012 video is chasing away tourists...so the response is to appear to do something..
but the irony is that they are deploying these 5000 UPDF soldiers into GOSS territory. i eonder if SILVA kir is swallowing this very bitter pill and what price he is paying.
if it was me ..never trust m7.

May be with the understanding that the UPDF will come to rescue just in case Bashir attempts something funny? Just kidding. The 5,000 men are to come from African union right?

countersniper Sat Mar 24 2012, 17:19

if it was an AU deployment..when was it decided?
who are the troop providers? you mean one man called kony is so elusive that five armies are out to hunt him?
this is a joke.

Sierra Kilo Sat Mar 24 2012, 17:26

cylon wrote:As you know know my fellow friends you've heard that the Malian Army has succeeded in taking power from the main government and it looks like their cry for better weapons needs to be heard. We already have our foregin minister there wentangula and it look like that is a good thing for us because he can bring an end to the coup and return the government back to civilian hands because the international commuinty is distancing itself from the crisis.

@Cylon, i also think this a good window of opportunity for Mr Wetangula to enhance his diplomatic credentials in the international sphere. He should stop facebooking and grab these five minutes of fame with Zeal. First he has the advantage of being an outsider therefore will not be seen as taking sides and secondly Kenya as a country has been involved in peace making efforts in a lot of countries therefore its an open door for him to bring the warring parties together.
These boys need to know that better armament will need to be imported from the international community and i am not sure that their removal of a democratically elected government ups the chances in the formers face.

Olekoima Sat Mar 24 2012, 17:33

countersniper wrote:if it was an AU deployment..when was it decided?
who are the troop providers? you mean one man called kony is so elusive that five armies are out to hunt him?
this is a joke.

I think there is much more than meets the eye here. Uganda, S.Sudan,DRC and CAR met among themselves, formed a force under the pretext of hunting down Kony, obtained the backing of AU then started business. This is not an AU deployment per se, but for whose benefit is not quite clear. Kony doesn't pose that much threat to Uganda anymore so i wonder why there is so much renewed interest to track him down after so long. Sammy has thrown himself into the mix too in what seems to be an alarming development.

Guest Sat Mar 24 2012, 17:38

Listen up fellas. Lets allow Spartan to feed us whatever he can without breaking protocols on this. Been asking him to do just this for weeks. That Monitor statement is smokescreen. AU Anti-Kony Force? UPDF run? Sammy's driveling charge? Hell, this place is heating up faster than a kuni kitchen.

@Countersniper - some of those simulations you mention have my imprint. And they are real-time specific as the Force situation changes yearly. The stop-line is 100Km deep (not Kenya!!) - not anywhere near Malaba.

jasiri Sat Mar 24 2012, 17:44

am just wondering, can the KH-31 hit a passive radar? @Risasi?

The Jasiri below REGIONAL DISCUSSIONS: - Page 3 Pictur10

i sincerely hope we score one better!

jasiri Sat Mar 24 2012, 17:52

looking at the ships pic, i cant help but see the resemblance between it an the Sigma/Kamorta class corvettes. esp the bridge design
SIGMA CLASS
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Kamorta Class
$REGIONAL DISCUSSIONS: - Page 3 Scaled.php?server=181&filename=frachter6$

countersniper Sat Mar 24 2012, 17:55

jasiri wrote:am just wondering, can the KH-31 hit a passive radar? @Risasi?

The Jasiri below

i sincerely hope we score one better!

jasiri
a passive radar is fine but how about no countermeasures? no weapons systems?
is this not just a sitting duck?

jasiri Sat Mar 24 2012, 18:01

Countersnipper, most if not all modern SAM have an active and passive mode. i read somewhere with enough skill a passive radar operator can home in on a fighter bomber in a wild weasel mode searching for it by riding it's search waves to the source, hence my question can a passive radar be hit?

Risasi Sat Mar 24 2012, 18:46

With all due respect you posted to soon spatan.
The Global transfers of major conventional weapons sorted by recipient (importer), end 2011 posts otherwise.
http://www.sipri.org/research/armaments/transfers/measuring/Recipient%20register%202011.pdf

Kenya
S: France 1 P-400 Patrol craft 2011 2011 1 Ex-French
South Africa (67) Puma M-26 APC 2010 2011 (35) KES1.6 b ($20 m) deal
USA (67) B5.9 Diesel engine 2010 2011 (35) For 67 Puma M-26 APC from South Africa

The above I can confirm as accurate info. One naval patrol craft and 35 out of 67 order Puma M-26 and American cumming engines (for the M-26)were delivered in 2011.
Scrolling (alphabetical) down to Uganda the lot is surprising if not impressive.

livefire Sat Mar 24 2012, 21:34

Why is MRC, (an outlawed group) becoming a thorn in the back? I read this simulations against Uganda and marvel at our national defence apparatus but back home we have a security lapse. Countersniper, has our intelligence mechanism failed to tackle this outlawed group? How does a six man mob disarm an Ap his G3 rifle and send 3 others into hiding? *suspicious*. Its time the security apparatus asserts its authority as this guys are embodelning by the day. Apparently with this unrests at the coast, lapsset can be a pipe dream if the MRC issue is not arrested.

Guest Sat Mar 24 2012, 22:27

Risasi wrote:With all due respect you posted to soon spatan.
The Global transfers of major conventional weapons sorted by recipient (importer), end 2011 posts otherwise.
http://www.sipri.org/research/armaments/transfers/measuring/Recipient%20register%202011.pdf

Kenya
S: France 1 P-400 Patrol craft 2011 2011 1 Ex-French
South Africa (67) Puma M-26 APC 2010 2011 (35) KES1.6 b ($20 m) deal
USA (67) B5.9 Diesel engine 2010 2011 (35) For 67 Puma M-26 APC from South Africa

The above I can confirm as accurate info. One naval patrol craft and 35 out of 67 order Puma M-26 and American cumming engines (for the M-26)were delivered in 2011.
Scrolling (alphabetical) down to Uganda the lot is surprising if not impressive.

Me thinks those toys are for defending Naval Threats arising from both from Lake Victoria & or a blockade at the Coast. If in future (hypo-thetically) Ke, or Tz for that matter, decide to invest in a strong Naval Force on the Lake, then Jinja, Entebbe & possibly Kampala could all be hit from the Lake. Furthermore, I have this feeling that Lake has Hydro-Carbons & if they are found near or on the common border with any of her neighbors, Ug will not be afraid to try & tangle (think Migingo style escalated to threats to sink Assets).

Question for @ ON? Do you think Egypt can enforce a Naval blockade if Ke, Ug, Tz, & SS decide to use the lake & her sources for irrigation, power etc which would threaten their lifeline, the Nile.

Guest Sat Mar 24 2012, 22:34

livefire wrote:Why is MRC, (an outlawed group) becoming a thorn in the back? I read this simulations against Uganda and marvel at our national defence apparatus but back home we have a security lapse. Countersniper, has our intelligence mechanism failed to tackle this outlawed group? How does a six man mob disarm an Ap his G3 rifle and send 3 others into hiding? *suspicious*. Its time the security apparatus asserts its authority as this guys are embodelning by the day. Apparently with this unrests at the coast, lapsset can be a pipe dream if the MRC issue is not arrested.

I think MRC will be dealt with Mungiki style. From the way they have been Peacocking themselves it was obvious they were going to do something stupid because attacking a Government representative puts them back squarely into the Police's cross hairs!

cylon Sat Mar 24 2012, 23:18

Sierra Kilo wrote:
cylon wrote:As you know know my fellow friends you've heard that the Malian Army has succeeded in taking power from the main government and it looks like their cry for better weapons needs to be heard. We already have our foregin minister there wentangula and it look like that is a good thing for us because he can bring an end to the coup and return the government back to civilian hands because the international commuinty is distancing itself from the crisis.
@Cylon, i also think this a good window of opportunity for Mr Wetangula to enhance his diplomatic credentials in the international sphere. He should stop facebooking and grab these five minutes of fame with Zeal. First he has the advantage of being an outsider therefore will not be seen as taking sides and secondly Kenya as a country has been involved in peace making efforts in a lot of countries therefore its an open door for him to bring the warring parties together.
These boys need to know that better armament will need to be imported from the international community and i am not sure that their removal of a democratically elected government ups the chances in the formers face.

Couldn't have said it better, We are known for peace keeping missions all over Africa and our last mission in the western side of Africa was in sierra Leone even though we lost a few good men to an incompetent Indian colonel or general we were able to secure sierra Leone with a democracy type state. Now in Mali we have the golden hour where there is a ton of confusion the civilians are worried and are fleeing to the borders the police doesn't know what to do, the army is stunted and cant even mobilize a single soldier to reclaim the city, government officials left from right are fleeing like animals and in all of this confusion we can help and end this situation in a matter of days the USA/NATO caused this problem(BLOW BACK) and i read in the news that Wetagula refused to board a plane from the UN that was brought to save him and he gave his seat to one of several Kenyans left in the country, he must know he can do something to help.

Well if you read all of that then you can disregard it we have missed the golden hour. But im happy the minister is safe and coming back home

Spartan Sat Mar 24 2012, 23:22

Looks like it's been a field day for all things Ugandan. Here are the thoughts of a not-so-sober man, time check: 23:10hrs, Saturday 24th March 2012.

@countersniper, you're right, UPDF would never get past Busia in the event of hostilities. Kenya, after all, has the most modern equipment, most battle hardened troops, most commanders that have been to real battles, the biggest number of men in uniform etc. But the effect of all that pales compared to the willingness to take body-bags home - UPDF are known to be averse to taking any casualty so their operation would fold after the first 200 KIA. Wish we could settle this with a duel, wild west style, because no one in their right mind is going to plunge us into a real hostilities.

@ole Nkarei, you seem to have some hard intel but we mean no harm to anyone, only the bad guys (LRA, Al Shabaab) need to be afraid of our movements. UPDF is a busy army, has been for decades, so much so that the movement of a brigade-size formation is routine this side of the border. Someone made a wild guess, you gotta have to go thru the posts sir, no offense.

@Risasi, knock yourself out with those 'international arms transfer reports'. Did you find the MV Faina shipment listed there indicating the true consignee? No? I thought so. Those reports document openly awarded contracts, a lot goes on under their noses, bro.

On a more serious note, the way AMISOM operations are executed will go a long way in determining whether initiatives like the East Africa Standby Force, and even possible political federation can take place. We have a litmus test on our hands, brothers. Three of the five EA countries are at war in the same theatre against a common enemy, what better chance to prove we can work towards a common goal. We owe it to our children to be successful in Somalia, egos aside.

cylon Sat Mar 24 2012, 23:37

Risasi wrote:@Olekoima ..the Hellfire is nothing more than a Semi-active laser homing missile. your buddies might confused it with a similar KAF missiles.
@Mjeshi I also read, on the net about a consignment (same magnitude as crane wrote) of Anti-ship missile and anti-radiation missile for the UPDF-AF. It was puzzling but again the internet is not the Gospel. I will see if I can trace back that site.
@cyclon 11 Tucano's at FTS Eastleigh.one crashed in 91-92 with a colleague Lt.Talam R.I.P during his solos.

the 4 examples of the KA-Five-OOH are doing A+ Demo in maneuverability, speed and cap....Blackflips , reverse runs name it.Maneuvers previously reserved for the fix wing class https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehdcIbK0ljk&feature=related Lets see if we can gun it down for AF colors as a COIN piece. The Hawk officially went to sleep (retired) a Month ago.

Okay risasi thanks for the info. If the Hawks retired can we still sell them off and leave just one to be a museum piece.

@Kooboz well i do remember of the tucanos back in the day and the F-5s flying from Eastleigh airbase.( Is that base also gonna get renovated soon its been encroached upon over the last few years from all sides their should be law that bars people from setting houses or shopping areas close to 700 yards from all military bases.)

cylon Sat Mar 24 2012, 23:39

jasiri wrote:looking at the ships pic, i cant help but see the resemblance between it an the Sigma/Kamorta class corvettes. esp the bridge design
SIGMA CLASS

Kamorta Class
$REGIONAL DISCUSSIONS: - Page 3 Scaled.php?server=181&filename=frachter6$

I think we can desgin these ships but i also read somewhere that the navy of Brunei ordered three of these ships from England and they denied them and they have been sitting in a naval yard waiting for someone to buy them.

areba Sun Mar 25 2012, 01:33

Note to admin:
I suggest we split this kenya defence forces thread into three main areas:
1: Projection, where real and potential in theatre discussions can be tackled.
2: Procurements, where specific questions regarding procurements past, present and future can be handled, and lastly...
3: kenyana, where we discuss the impact of roles and actions by friend or foe on the project.

Forumers will likely home in on one or the other, and a clean self executed wheat-chaff sift might just happen... who wouldnt want sanity ?

areba Sun Mar 25 2012, 01:37

on the issue of PK, he is pretty active on twitter-space. I did have an opportunity to ask in passing why he did not consider having boots in theater in somalia and his response was.... "We are spread too thin" he asserts RW has a substantial number of men in both sudans and He would not want to get into another theater without measured caution.

Guest Sun Mar 25 2012, 02:47

livefire wrote:Why is MRC, (an outlawed group) becoming a thorn in the back? I read this simulations against Uganda and marvel at our national defence apparatus but back home we have a security lapse. Countersniper, has our intelligence mechanism failed to tackle this outlawed group? How does a six man mob disarm an Ap his G3 rifle and send 3 others into hiding? *suspicious*. Its time the security apparatus asserts its authority as this guys are embodelning by the day. Apparently with this unrests at the coast, lapsset can be a pipe dream if the MRC issue is not arrested.

A very good game is being played here as i see it, we lets this treasonous group incite the youth and turn violent which will lead to the coast people to distance themselves from this radicalized group which they will run and ask the government for help to address the grievances of the coast. Thats why i believe their has been a lax in security because if the police began arresting, and harrasing these people it will lead to a bigger up cry of their cause so if these people are forced to turn into violent factions it will open the eyes of the people of the coast that these people are just to radicalized for our tenure of a peacful solution to fix our problems. Also major wins in reducing the drug abuse, and cleaning up the city of Mombasa will go a long way to win the hearts and the minds of the people. And that is my kibole

Olekoima Sun Mar 25 2012, 10:55

Spartan wrote:Looks like it's been a field day for all things Ugandan. Here are the thoughts of a not-so-sober man, time check: 23:10hrs, Saturday 24th March 2012.

@countersniper, you're right, UPDF would never get past Busia in the event of hostilities. Kenya, after all, has the most modern equipment, most battle hardened troops, most commanders that have been to real battles, the biggest number of men in uniform etc. But the effect of all that pales compared to the willingness to take body-bags home - UPDF are known to be averse to taking any casualty so their operation would fold after the first 200 KIA. Wish we could settle this with a duel, wild west style, because no one in their right mind is going to plunge us into a real hostilities.

@ole Nkarei, you seem to have some hard intel but we mean no harm to anyone, only the bad guys (LRA, Al Shabaab) need to be afraid of our movements. UPDF is a busy army, has been for decades, so much so that the movement of a brigade-size formation is routine this side of the border. Someone made a wild guess, you gotta have to go thru the posts sir, no offense.

@Risasi, knock yourself out with those 'international arms transfer reports'. Did you find the MV Faina shipment listed there indicating the true consignee? No? I thought so. Those reports document openly awarded contracts, a lot goes on under their noses, bro.

On a more serious note, the way AMISOM operations are executed will go a long way in determining whether initiatives like the East Africa Standby Force, and even possible political federation can take place. We have a litmus test on our hands, brothers. Three of the five EA countries are at war in the same theatre against a common enemy, what better chance to prove we can work towards a common goal. We owe it to our children to be successful in Somalia, egos aside.

Enough of sibbling rivalry guys.

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mJESHI mMOJA Sun Mar 25 2012, 11:07

spartan wrote:@Risasi, knock yourself out with those 'international arms transfer reports'. Did you find the MV Faina shipment listed there indicating the true consignee? No? I thought so. Those reports document openly awarded contracts, a lot goes on under their noses, bro.

. For Risasi…the list indicates Arms shipment in 2011.MV Faina shipment was a year back….and yes these are openly awarded contracts not secrets, what is known by many, the numberings could be off target, but equipment of that design was shipped. Anyway it was just out of shear interest I asked and not a debate, the arms belongs to the UPDF. I close my posting on that matter.

I agreed with areba a partition is need in the KDF section the topics are maturing extensively.

Side note

Jasiri was resold.i.e we received cash when it changed hands. So pesa iko ..Will get a 1400ton displacement offshore patrol vessel from a Mediterranean navy and get it refitted with the Otomat/Teseo missle system from the Nyayo class.

Olekoima Sun Mar 25 2012, 11:24

mJESHI mMOJA wrote:
spartan wrote:@Risasi, knock yourself out with those 'international arms transfer reports'. Did you find the MV Faina shipment listed there indicating the true consignee? No? I thought so. Those reports document openly awarded contracts, a lot goes on under their noses, bro.
. For Risasi…the list indicates Arms shipment in 2011.MV Faina shipment was a year back….and yes these are openly awarded contracts not secrets, what is known by many, the numberings could be off target, but equipment of that design was shipped. Anyway it was just out of shear interest I asked and not a debate, the arms belongs to the UPDF. I close my posting on that matter.

I agreed with areba a partition is need in the KDF section the topics are maturing extensively.

Side note

Jasiri was resold.i.e we received cash when it changed hands. So pesa iko ..Will get a 1400ton displacement offshore patrol vessel from a Mediterranean navy and get it refitted with the Otomat/Teseo missle system from the Nyayo class.

Excellent. Any links @ mJESHI mMOJA?

Guest Sun Mar 25 2012, 12:22

areba wrote:... "We are spread too thin" he asserts RW has a substantial number of men in both sudans and He would not want to get into another theater without measured caution.

Spread thin? a Division-size contingent in Dafur on a purely policing profile, and nothing in the DRC, of an 120,000 men army! Consider this, (a) RPF is configured as a Militarised Gendermerie Force, (an enhanced GSU-kinda) which is quite effective dealing with the tit-for-tat irregular-type conflicts Rwanda faces (you can't tell the difference between RPF,Ntigunda and Nkunda forces side-by-side) - Somalia is out of their legue, and you see how long the Burundians have struggled in Crazy town,(b) being the largest Corporate entity in Rwanda, her recent history has resulted in RPF succumbing to the suffocating politicization by the Ruling Class - RPF is essentially a political tool to Rwanda's social transformation, with a greater social signature. (c) a good amount of RPF raison d'etre is Population Control / Policing - Kigali during any normal day witnesses a preponderant intimidating presence of the RFP, while night platoon-size foot patrols are deployed every night in almost every major provincial artery road.

@Hellcat - Misri cannot blockage anyone this far. But they can make sufficiently threatening noises as to bring in their traditional Western backers who would then bludgeon a shot-gun agreement to our disagreement with Misri - better for us all that we negotiate with Misri and reach agreement without this suffocating interference. They have rights to these waters though not in the quantities they demand.

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