Uganda Peoples Defence Force (UPDF),

jasiri wrote:

deconstructor wrote:

hii inaitwa L-59 ya Aero Vodochody. Sometimes back, i think ni 2003, Kenya Air Force said no to buying L-159 some guy was forcing it on them. Risasi hebu tell us more about the 15niner story...

Thanks Jasiri seems like this is one of a couple owned by the UPDF

deconstructor wrote:
Does anyone have an opinion on whether it is fair to conclude that the greatest security threat for Ug is its own military. Taking into consideration its history of civil war, current political situation(dictatorship), and  having about a large number of veterans with combat experience plus its 50,000 active military personel?

http://www.redpepper.co.ug/updf-to-retire-1300-soldiers/

The Ugandan military is a strength, not a threat to Uganda. Here the military is the most respected institution, and that respect cuts across all sections of the populace. Veterans, knowing the psyche and strength of the UPDF, are some of the most disciplined members of society. You may need to read up on countries in the region that have bigger militaries, including Rwanda (about 100,000), Ethiopia and Eritrea (which has a national draft). These countries are some of the most internally stable you'll get.

Having said that, we have a policy here of not wading into politics, for the simple reason that many contributors are active military personnel who have to maintain their professionalism even with the pseudo-anonymity of such sites. Rais M7 presents himself and is elected by the people every election cycle through adult suffrage elections witnessed by international observers from allover the world. The elections may not be perfect, but whose is?

So please desist from drawing forumers into political talk

africaken wrote:true this is just a hobby to me,hey does  any one have evidence if uganda has R-77 AAM

The SU-30MK2 operates both R-77 AA-12 'Adder' as well as the more modest R-73. If the UPDAF needs them, rest assured, they have them. Unlike the West, Russians have a no-holds-barred approach to weapons sales

deconstructor wrote:

jasiri wrote:

deconstructor wrote:

hii inaitwa L-59 ya Aero Vodochody. Sometimes back, i think ni 2003, Kenya Air Force said no to buying L-159 some guy was forcing it on them. Risasi hebu tell us more about the 15niner story...

Thanks Jasiri seems like this is one of a couple owned by the UPDF

thats not a L-59 but aero L-39 albatros and here is a video of some east european fly testing uganda aero L-39's albatros

http://www.newvision.co.ug/news/654585--updf-instructors-trained-al-shabaab-fighters.html

Seems that security forces in the region are really letting us down.There is this allegation on UPDF instructors then there has been the long-running accusation leveled on Kenyan police & immigration officials that they let in foreign un-desirables at the correct price.They should learn that no matter the inducement, they end up endangering all of us.

Spartan wrote:

africaken wrote:true this is just a hobby to me,hey does  any one have evidence if uganda has R-77 AAM

The SU-30MK2 operates both R-77 AA-12 'Adder' as well as the more modest R-73. If the UPDAF needs them, rest assured, they have them. Unlike the West, Russians have a no-holds-barred approach to weapons sales

 ya some AMRAAMSKI plus several anti ship missile too..

africaken wrote:

deconstructor wrote:

jasiri wrote:

deconstructor wrote:

hii inaitwa L-59 ya Aero Vodochody. Sometimes back, i think ni 2003, Kenya Air Force said no to buying L-159 some guy was forcing it on them. Risasi hebu tell us more about the 15niner story...

Thanks Jasiri seems like this is one of a couple owned by the UPDF

thats not a L-59 but aero L-39 albatros and here is a video of some east european fly testing uganda aero L-39's albatross

the KDF candidate was the L-159 ALCA (Advanced Light Combat Aircraft),  an advance version of the L-59 which is its self a further development of the L-39.
all 3 birds have similar external and body parts , an economical production aspect. the L-159 internals are substituted with U.S. components and avionics. ALCA would have been a substitute for the Bae Hawk in Combat Air support and add in as a Lead In Fighter Trainer. it would have been handy if a western fighter was to follow as ourAir superiority fighter.
 L-159 is the primary air weapon used by the Syria defence force against it rebels
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfVX6DeVwzI

Risasi wrote:

africaken wrote:

deconstructor wrote:

jasiri wrote:

deconstructor wrote:

hii inaitwa L-59 ya Aero Vodochody. Sometimes back, i think ni 2003, Kenya Air Force said no to buying L-159 some guy was forcing it on them. Risasi hebu tell us more about the 15niner story...

Thanks Jasiri seems like this is one of a couple owned by the UPDF

thats not a L-59 but aero L-39 albatros and here is a video of some east european fly testing uganda aero L-39's albatross

the KDF candidate was the L-159 ALCA (Advanced Light Combat Aircraft),  an advance version of the L-59 which is its self a further development of the L-39.
all 3 birds have similar external and body parts , an economical production aspect. the L-159 internals are substituted with U.S. components and avionics. ALCA would have been a substitute for the Bae Hawk in Combat Air support and add in as a Lead In Fighter Trainer. it would have been handy if a western fighter was to follow as ourAir superiority fighter.
 L-159 is the primary air weapon used by the Syria defence force against it rebels
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfVX6DeVwzI

i remember watching this l-159 being test flown from eastleigh airbase back in the late 90's

Glossing over the usual genocide bs in Kigali reminded me of impeccable evidence I heard from various sources about Obote's so called massacres of Bagandas in the Luwero triangle.
Yes,at least 250,000 Baganda were killed. However it appears the perpetrators weren't the hated Northerners. The atrocities were actually done by the then NRA according to many Tutsis who've fallen out with the Kagame-M7 axis.
At first glance its bullshit but when you look deeper,hmmmm.... The killings happened in areas where the then Uganda Army had been driven out,Obote said as much in an interview.If his forces were really killing Baganda en masse wouldn't they have tried to hide the bodies instead of them displaying them openly?
Rwandese insiders similarly state an identical tactic was used in the 90s all over Rwanda and most of the dead were actually Hutu;and the total 94 KIA was max 500k. 2 US researchers Stam & Davenport say the same.
Defectors have also stated the fav trick of NRA fighters was the false flag:horribly torture families to death wearing Obote army uniforms and 'rescue' the kids who then become fearless kadogos. Apparently this is an open secret.
IMO,the road to the Kigali killings began in Luwero:Spartan,aggressor one,flying crane,what's the truth??

MWAURA wrote:Glossing over the usual genocide bs in Kigali reminded me of impeccable evidence I heard from various sources about Obote's so called massacres of Bagandas in the Luwero triangle.
Yes,at least 250,000 Baganda were killed. However it appears the perpetrators weren't the hated Northerners. The atrocities were actually done by the then NRA according to many Tutsis who've fallen out with the Kagame-M7 axis.
At first glance its bullshit but when you look deeper,hmmmm.... The killings happened in areas where the then Uganda Army had been driven out,Obote said as much in an interview.If his forces were really killing Baganda en masse wouldn't they have tried to hide the bodies instead of them displaying them openly?
Rwandese insiders similarly state an identical tactic was used in the 90s all over Rwanda and most of the dead were actually Hutu;and the total 94 KIA was max 500k. 2 US researchers Stam & Davenport say the same.
Defectors have also stated the fav trick of NRA fighters was the false flag:horribly torture families to death wearing Obote army uniforms and 'rescue' the kids who then become fearless kadogos. Apparently this is an open secret.
IMO,the road to the Kigali killings began in Luwero:Spartan,aggressor one,flying crane,what's the truth??

Bro, what's the motive behind this kind of supposition, its historical untruths aside? The proof of the pudding is the eating, just take this view to Luwero, if you're lucky to survive a lynching, maybe there's some truth in it. It doesn't even pass the smell test bse;

1. Once a butcher, always a butcher. Where has the UPDF gone on to kill? Somalia, South Sudan, C.A.R? Maybe the UPDF is the one that killed people in Kenya during the 2007 P.E.V! Or did we become saved all of sudden? Make your pick
2. Mention names. These were people who were killed, not animals. Real genocide victims are always documented, why not those killed by NRA? Otherwise this remains a wild accusation
3. At the height of its strength, NRA had 200,000 in its ranks. Is it possible that all of these guys are quiet  about those atrocities when many of them are now private citizens or even in opposition politics

You're reading from too many sites/sources that have an agenda against Tutsis, and this agenda always seeks to tie NRA to RPF/A, and by extension the Rwandan genocide (where the question of who perpetrated what has never been solved).

Former UN ambassador for children in conflict zones Olara Otunu (now UPC party president) made a career out of these kinds of smears. He posited that the war in the north was a ploy by the government to finish off the people of the north. Guess who is winning the north politically now. Even the illiterate peasants know a blatant lie when they hear one.

Rebellion is not a walk in the park. When you pick up guns to fight, people get killed, sometimes the innocent, regrettably. I will not speak for RPF (although it's your game plan to tie NRA and RPF at the hip). People died in Uganda during the wars, including many innocent people in Luwero and other areas, but there simply was no systematic plan to kill innocents.

Those making up these rumours (who pretend to have seen the atrocities) should present themselves for prosecution for taking part in killing civilians or witnessing and doing nothing

You are wading into the dark by giving too much time to fallacious accusations by fringe elements of Uganda's political opposition as well as enemies. Ugandans know who killed whom and we don't need academic types from the West or anyone for that matter to tell us what to believe. That's why they continue to vote in a way that confounds people who don't like the Old Man.

With the benefit of hindsight now, i don't blame the Obote government that much. State security business can be tough and sometimes rogue elements in the state can be forced to sanction illegal deaths as the deaths of Sheikhs Aboud Rogo and Ibrahim Rogo in Mombasa can attest.

Spartan wrote:

MWAURA wrote:Glossing over the usual genocide bs in Kigali reminded me of impeccable evidence I heard from various sources about Obote's so called massacres of Bagandas in the Luwero triangle.
Yes,at least 250,000 Baganda were killed. However it appears the perpetrators weren't the hated Northerners. The atrocities were actually done by the then NRA according to many Tutsis who've fallen out with the Kagame-M7 axis.
At first glance its bullshit but when you look deeper,hmmmm.... The killings happened in areas where the then Uganda Army had been driven out,Obote said as much in an interview.If his forces were really killing Baganda en masse wouldn't they have tried to hide the bodies instead of them displaying them openly?
Rwandese insiders similarly state an identical tactic was used in the 90s all over Rwanda and most of the dead were actually Hutu;and the total 94 KIA was max 500k. 2 US researchers Stam & Davenport say the same.
Defectors have also stated the fav trick of NRA fighters was the false flag:horribly torture families to death wearing Obote army uniforms and 'rescue' the kids who then become fearless kadogos. Apparently this is an open secret.
IMO,the road to the Kigali killings began in Luwero:Spartan,aggressor one,flying crane,what's the truth??

Bro, what's the motive behind this kind of supposition, its historical untruths aside? The proof of the pudding is the eating, just take this view to Luwero, if you're lucky to survive a lynching, maybe there's some truth in it. It doesn't even pass the smell test bse;

1. Once a butcher, always a butcher. Where has the UPDF gone on to kill? Somalia, South Sudan, C.A.R? Maybe the UPDF is the one that killed people in Kenya during the 2007 P.E.V! Or did we become saved all of sudden? Make your pick
2. Mention names. These were people who were killed, not animals. Real genocide victims are always documented, why not those killed by NRA? Otherwise this remains a wild accusation
3. At the height of its strength, NRA had 200,000 in its ranks. Is it possible that all of these guys are quiet  about those atrocities when many of them are now private citizens or even in opposition politics

You're reading from too many sites/sources that have an agenda against Tutsis, and this agenda always seeks to tie NRA to RPF/A, and by extension the Rwandan genocide (where the question of who perpetrated what has never been solved).

Former UN ambassador for children in conflict zones Olara Otunu (now UPC party president) made a career out of these kinds of smears. He posited that the war in the north was a ploy by the government to finish off the people of the north. Guess who is winning the north politically now. Even the illiterate peasants know a blatant lie when they hear one.

Rebellion is not a walk in the park. When you pick up guns to fight, people get killed, sometimes the innocent, regrettably. I will not speak for RPF (although it's your game plan to tie NRA and RPF at the hip). People died in Uganda during the wars, including many innocent people in Luwero and other areas, but there simply was no systematic plan to kill innocents.

Those making up these rumours (who pretend to have seen the atrocities) should present themselves for prosecution for taking part in killing civilians or witnessing and doing nothing

You are wading into the dark by giving too much time to fallacious accusations by fringe elements of Uganda's political opposition as well as enemies. Ugandans know who killed whom and we don't need academic types from the West or anyone for that matter to tell us what to believe. That's why they continue to vote in a way that confounds people who don't like the Old Man.

With the benefit of hindsight now, i don't blame the Obote government that much. State security business can be tough and sometimes rogue elements in the state can be forced to sanction illegal deaths as the deaths of Sheikhs Aboud Rogo and Ibrahim Rogo in Mombasa can attest.

Actually when I first heard the story in 2000 from 2 Baganda buddies I didn't pay attention. One from Luweero,a place called Bulemezi. He was shot in Nairobi a year later. When looking at the RPF record of mass murder beginning with their 1990 invasion where they even killed Tutsis throughout their 'liberated' areas in the North it  makes sense.
They'd thoroughly infiltrated the FAR and the Interahamwe and had the Media on their side from the get go.
One question will give us proper perspective:is it true that Obote's intel service the GSU and Amin's SRB had a number of high level Tutsis?

MWAURA wrote:Actually when I first heard the story in 2000 from 2 Baganda buddies I didn't pay attention. One from Luweero,a place called Bulemezi. He was shot in Nairobi a year later. When looking at the RPF record of mass murder beginning with their 1990 invasion where they even killed Tutsis throughout their 'liberated' areas in the North it  makes sense.
They'd thoroughly infiltrated the FAR and the Interahamwe and had the Media on their side from the get go.
One question will give us proper perspective:is it true that Obote's intel service the GSU and Amin's SRB had a number of high level Tutsis?

Man, dignifying these unfounded accusations didn't mean we could go on and on about them. Let me tell you this: these accusations are derisive, derogatory and demeaning. Please stop!

A few parting shots however;
1. Man gets shot in Nairobi, so what? Nairobi isn't exactly Abu Dhabi or Zurich. People get shot there all the time, with the police taking a fare share of the victims.
2. Is this Tutsi obssession or what? And how is what the do/did related to us. Direct your fire more pointedly, bro. Are you shooting at us or at the Tutsi?
3. Amin's SRB had some Tutsis but Obote had virtually none. He despised them for being used by Amin, remember? Actually, he ordered a purge in 1982 or thereabouts and they sought refuge with the rebels. He was actually responsible for the disproportionate number of Tutsis in NRA.

The Obote you are quoting is a very divisive figure in Uganda even in death, it isn't as if he was a saint. He was a politician per excellence, nothing more. He is responsible for most of our troubles, from promoting the illiterate Amin because he thought he could control him, introducing tribalism in the armed forces which twice led to his ouster and persecuting Rwandese refugees thereby driving them into rebellion with the NRA after which they attacked their motherland.

So who is the originator of the current state of affairs in Uganda and the greater great lakes region? No prizes for that.

I hope you have no more questions bro.

Spartan wrote:

MWAURA wrote:Actually when I first heard the story in 2000 from 2 Baganda buddies I didn't pay attention. One from Luweero,a place called Bulemezi. He was shot in Nairobi a year later. When looking at the RPF record of mass murder beginning with their 1990 invasion where they even killed Tutsis throughout their 'liberated' areas in the North it  makes sense.
They'd thoroughly infiltrated the FAR and the Interahamwe and had the Media on their side from the get go.
One question will give us proper perspective:is it true that Obote's intel service the GSU and Amin's SRB had a number of high level Tutsis?

Man, dignifying these unfounded accusations didn't mean we could go on and on about them. Let me tell you this: these accusations are derisive, derogatory and demeaning. Please stop!

A few parting shots however;
1. Man gets shot in Nairobi, so what? Nairobi isn't exactly Abu Dhabi or Zurich. People get shot there all the time, with the police taking a fare share of the victims.
2. Is this Tutsi obssession or what? And how is what the do/did related to us. Direct your fire more pointedly, bro. Are you shooting at us or at the Tutsi?
3. Amin's SRB had some Tutsis but Obote had virtually none. He despised them for being used by Amin, remember? Actually, he ordered a purge in 1982 or thereabouts and they sought refuge with the rebels. He was actually responsible for the disproportionate number of Tutsis in NRA.

The Obote you are quoting is a very divisive figure in Uganda even in death, it isn't as if he was a saint. He was a politician per excellence, nothing more. He is responsible for most of our troubles, from promoting the illiterate Amin because he thought he could control him, introducing tribalism in the armed forces which twice led to his ouster and persecuting Rwandese refugees thereby driving them into rebellion with the NRA after which they attacked their motherland.

So who is the originator of the current state of affairs in Uganda and the greater great lakes region? No prizes for that.

I hope you have no more questions bro.

Obote 1's intel agency,the GSU had a number of Tutsis,including Museveni himself. (You do know M7's mama,Esteeri Kokundeeka, was a Tutsi royal?)Amin's SRB as you admit had a number also who were rebel agents. This extremely important detail confirms there was a longstanding Tutsi plan to control and dominate the entire Great lakes region including even Kenya. Most Kenyans don't understand what the whole NRA/Moi hullabaloo in the 80s was all about,but now its obvious.
Fyi,the RPF in the late 90s were so secure in their AngloJewish protection and confident in their destablisation activities and martial ability they openly declared ,"Moi would leave not necessarily by election."

MWAURA wrote:Obote 1's intel agency,the GSU had a number of Tutsis,including Museveni himself. (You do know M7's mama,Esteeri Kokundeeka, was a Tutsi royal?)Amin's SRB as you admit had a number also who were rebel agents. This extremely important detail confirms there was a longstanding Tutsi plan to control and dominate the entire Great lakes region including even Kenya. Most Kenyans don't understand what the whole NRA/Moi hullabaloo in the 80s was all about,but now its obvious.
Fyi,the RPF in the late 90s were so secure in their AngloJewish protection and confident in their destablisation activities and martial ability they openly declared ,"Moi would leave not necessarily by election."

Bro, I'll have to leave you to knock yourself out on this one, but not before undoing some innacuracies in your wildly imagined conspiracy.

1. The Ole Man's mother was a Munyankore (Kokundeka means 'If you leave me', I don't know the Tutsi equivalent). Even if she was Tutsi, it wouldn't make him Tutsi. All Ugandan tribes are patriarchal i.e children follow the father's tribe. Maybe you are from the matriarchal Kikuyu, but never mind.

2. It's not true there were Tutsis in Obote's intel services, especially not Obote I when Mzee served there. Most Tutsi, incuding Kagame as a 3-yr old, came in 1959 when there was an insurrection against the Tutsi-ruled kingdom of King Mutara III in Rwanda, and went straight to refugee camps, with Kagame and Rwigyema ending up in Nshungerezi Refugee camp in Tooro district in Western Uganda. They were still considered refugees in Obote I btn 1966 - 71. They also considered themselves refugees (that's why they fought to go back home, remember). It's Amin who employed their services, along with other non-Ugandan tribes like the Anyanya and Kakwa of Sudan

To be honest with you, I have heard of this so-called Tutsi scheme, and I will tell you this. It stems from a deep inferiority complex its purveyors have against the Tutsi, much like the hatred of Jews goes hand in hand with feelings of inadequacy their haters have when they compare themselves to the Jews. Otherwise how do you explain a whole region ganging up on a small tribe whose main crime is to roam with their cattle?

On that quote from the RPF, any names and places. It's easy (and cheap) for one to put words in quotation marks and attribute them to any other person without proper references

spartan wrote:1. The Ole Man's mother was a Munyankore (Kokundeka means 'If you leave me', I don't know the Tutsi equivalent). Even if she was Tutsi, it wouldn't make him Tutsi. All Ugandan tribes are patriarchal i.e children follow the father's tribe. Maybe you are from the matriarchal Kikuyu, but never mind.

No.She was a Royal Tutsi;that's certain. Its a fact she crossed the border in 1945 as a single mother when M7 was a 2 or 3 year old toddler.

spartan wrote:2. It's not true there were Tutsis in Obote's intel services, especially not Obote I when Mzee served there. Most Tutsi, incuding Kagame as a 3-yr old, came in 1959 when there was an insurrection against the Tutsi-ruled kingdom of King Mutara III in Rwanda, and went straight to refugee camps, with Kagame and Rwigyema ending up in Nshungerezi Refugee camp in Tooro district in Western Uganda. They were still considered refugees in Obote I btn 1966 - 71. They also considered themselves refugees (that's why they fought to go back home, remember). It's Amin who employed their services, along with other non-Ugandan tribes like the Anyanya and Kakwa of Sudan

Yes,Obote's intel was under overall control of his cousin but there was at least 2 or 3 senior operational Tutsis,one being Micombero,allegedly from Kigezi.

spartan wrote:To be honest with you, I have heard of this so-called Tutsi scheme, and I will tell you this. It stems from a deep inferiority complex its purveyors have against the Tutsi, much like the hatred of Jews goes hand in hand with feelings of inadequacy their haters have when they compare themselves to the Jews. Otherwise how do you explain a whole region ganging up on a small tribe whose main crime is to roam with their cattle?

I thought so too at first but the weight of the evidence proves there is a Tutsi plan to control the Great Lakes. 

spartan wrote:On that quote from the RPF, any names and places. It's easy (and cheap) for one to put words in quotation marks and attribute them to any other person without proper references

That quote is from the first mainstream refutation of the 'official truth' about the Rwanda 94 genocide. The book is a must read for all literate Africans. It undid all the bullshit by the likes of Prunier and Gourevitch and all the other RPF groupies.
Genocide and covert operations in Africa, 1993-1999,Wayne Madsen.

Btw,he's an ex US naval intel guy-he knows his shit!

Coming back to Luweero

Like I said I first heard the atrocities were done by M7's boys according to some Baganda buddies in the early 90s. Astonishingly his biggest supporters have publicly confirmed the same!!

"At the burial of [UPC stalwart] Adonia Tiberondwa recently [on December 28, 2004], Maj. Gen. Kahinda Otafiire, for example, revealed that the National Resistance Army rebels used to wear UPC colours and then go into villages in Luwero and kill people in order to make the people think these were actions of the UPC government. Otafiire was boasting of the "tricks" NRA employed to win support in Luwero, but was also revealing the sinister side of Museveni and his insurgents... Each time there was a reported case of mistreatment of civilians by the army, we arrested those responsible and punished them severely.
"The truth is that most of the soldiers in the army who were committing atrocities were Museveni's people. And whenever we zeroed in on them, they would run to join him in the bush in Luwero. Take the example of [Colonel] Pecos Kutesa. He had an interview with William Pike on Capital Radio in Kampala in [January] 1995 in a programme called Desert Island Discs. He told Pike that he was in UNLA but as an NRA infiltrator whose mission was to undermine the credibility of the army from within.
"Pecos Kutesa's testimony is instructive of how Museveni personally orchestrated the killings of innocent people and the harassment of civilians not just in Luwero but other parts of Uganda as well during the 1980s. His testimony is also important because it fits very well with what Otafiire and Lt. Gen. Elly Tumwine have confessed. Let us listen to Pecos Kutesa, whose interview on Capital Radio I have kept as my evidence. He told Pike that he used to be at a roadblock in Konge. As a lieutenant, he was the man in charge of that roadblock. According to Pecos Kutesa's own testimony on Capital Radio, Konge roadblock was the most notorious in harassing civilians, robbing them of their money and killing some. Kutesa says reports reached army headquarters of his harassment of the civilians and Oyite Ojok summoned him to Kampala for disciplinary action. He ran to the bush." (Daily Monitor, April 15, 2005).

http://hungryoftruth.blogspot.com/2009/10/truth-about-death-of-maj-gen-fred.html

This same trick,the false flag,the committing of atrocities on civilians while wearing uniforms of the enemy is a hallmark of the Tutsi strategy in the Great Lakes. Yes,Tutsis were killed by Hutus,especially after the plane shootdown but the RPF  fooled the whole world. You do know or should know,they'd infiltrated the FAR,Interahamwe and all the Hutu parties. This tactic is used by all the Congolese rebel movements which are actually proxies of Kigali and Kampala.

MWAURA wrote:

spartan wrote:1. The Ole Man's mother was a Munyankore (Kokundeka means 'If you leave me', I don't know the Tutsi equivalent). Even if she was Tutsi, it wouldn't make him Tutsi. All Ugandan tribes are patriarchal i.e children follow the father's tribe. Maybe you are from the matriarchal Kikuyu, but never mind.

No.She was a Royal Tutsi;that's certain. Its a fact she crossed the border in 1945 as a single mother when M7 was a 2 or 3 year old toddler.

spartan wrote:2. It's not true there were Tutsis in Obote's intel services, especially not Obote I when Mzee served there. Most Tutsi, incuding Kagame as a 3-yr old, came in 1959 when there was an insurrection against the Tutsi-ruled kingdom of King Mutara III in Rwanda, and went straight to refugee camps, with Kagame and Rwigyema ending up in Nshungerezi Refugee camp in Tooro district in Western Uganda. They were still considered refugees in Obote I btn 1966 - 71. They also considered themselves refugees (that's why they fought to go back home, remember). It's Amin who employed their services, along with other non-Ugandan tribes like the Anyanya and Kakwa of Sudan

Yes,Obote's intel was under overall control of his cousin but there was at least 2 or 3 senior operational Tutsis,one being Micombero,allegedly from Kigezi.

spartan wrote:To be honest with you, I have heard of this so-called Tutsi scheme, and I will tell you this. It stems from a deep inferiority complex its purveyors have against the Tutsi, much like the hatred of Jews goes hand in hand with feelings of inadequacy their haters have when they compare themselves to the Jews. Otherwise how do you explain a whole region ganging up on a small tribe whose main crime is to roam with their cattle?

I thought so too at first but the weight of the evidence proves there is a Tutsi plan to control the Great Lakes. 

spartan wrote:On that quote from the RPF, any names and places. It's easy (and cheap) for one to put words in quotation marks and attribute them to any other person without proper references

That quote is from the first mainstream refutation of the 'official truth' about the Rwanda 94 genocide. The book is a must read for all literate Africans. It undid all the bullshit by the likes of Prunier and Gourevitch and all the other RPF groupies.
Genocide and covert operations in Africa, 1993-1999,Wayne Madsen.

Btw,he's an ex US naval intel guy-he knows his shit!

Coming back to Luweero

Like I said I first heard the atrocities were done by M7's boys according to some Baganda buddies in the early 90s. Astonishingly his biggest supporters have publicly confirmed the same!!

"At the burial of [UPC stalwart] Adonia Tiberondwa recently [on December 28, 2004], Maj. Gen. Kahinda Otafiire, for example, revealed that the National Resistance Army rebels used to wear UPC colours and then go into villages in Luwero and kill people in order to make the people think these were actions of the UPC government. Otafiire was boasting of the "tricks" NRA employed to win support in Luwero, but was also revealing the sinister side of Museveni and his insurgents... Each time there was a reported case of mistreatment of civilians by the army, we arrested those responsible and punished them severely.
"The truth is that most of the soldiers in the army who were committing atrocities were Museveni's people. And whenever we zeroed in on them, they would run to join him in the bush in Luwero. Take the example of [Colonel] Pecos Kutesa. He had an interview with William Pike on Capital Radio in Kampala in [January] 1995 in a programme called Desert Island Discs. He told Pike that he was in UNLA but as an NRA infiltrator whose mission was to undermine the credibility of the army from within.
"Pecos Kutesa's testimony is instructive of how Museveni personally orchestrated the killings of innocent people and the harassment of civilians not just in Luwero but other parts of Uganda as well during the 1980s. His testimony is also important because it fits very well with what Otafiire and Lt. Gen. Elly Tumwine have confessed. Let us listen to Pecos Kutesa, whose interview on Capital Radio I have kept as my evidence. He told Pike that he used to be at a roadblock in Konge. As a lieutenant, he was the man in charge of that roadblock. According to Pecos Kutesa's own testimony on Capital Radio, Konge roadblock was the most notorious in harassing civilians, robbing them of their money and killing some. Kutesa says reports reached army headquarters of his harassment of the civilians and Oyite Ojok summoned him to Kampala for disciplinary action. He ran to the bush." (Daily Monitor, April 15, 2005).

http://hungryoftruth.blogspot.com/2009/10/truth-about-death-of-maj-gen-fred.html

This same trick,the false flag,the committing of atrocities on civilians while wearing uniforms of the enemy is a hallmark of the Tutsi strategy in the Great Lakes. Yes,Tutsis were killed by Hutus,especially after the plane shootdown but the RPF  fooled the whole world. You do know or should know,they'd infiltrated the FAR,Interahamwe and all the Hutu parties. This tactic is used by all the Congolese rebel movements which are actually proxies of Kigali and Kampala.

How stupid and duped we have been all this time!! I am going to make sure as many Ugandans as possible read this info. NOT

Fact is that there's nothing new in these allegations. The M7-hating brigade (of whom there are legion, including a one 'Mwaura') has made sure that the internet is awash with this hogwash.

M7's father and brothers, and at least one sister are alive and well and able to refute these lies, but obviously they have better things to do. Lets leave these conspiracies for when they die.

Seriously, you have wasted a lot of my time. Little wonder more serious members have left this forum. I think it's about time I ended my participation here

Spartan wrote:

MWAURA wrote:

spartan wrote:1. The Ole Man's mother was a Munyankore (Kokundeka means 'If you leave me', I don't know the Tutsi equivalent). Even if she was Tutsi, it wouldn't make him Tutsi. All Ugandan tribes are patriarchal i.e children follow the father's tribe. Maybe you are from the matriarchal Kikuyu, but never mind.

No.She was a Royal Tutsi;that's certain. Its a fact she crossed the border in 1945 as a single mother when M7 was a 2 or 3 year old toddler.

spartan wrote:2. It's not true there were Tutsis in Obote's intel services, especially not Obote I when Mzee served there. Most Tutsi, incuding Kagame as a 3-yr old, came in 1959 when there was an insurrection against the Tutsi-ruled kingdom of King Mutara III in Rwanda, and went straight to refugee camps, with Kagame and Rwigyema ending up in Nshungerezi Refugee camp in Tooro district in Western Uganda. They were still considered refugees in Obote I btn 1966 - 71. They also considered themselves refugees (that's why they fought to go back home, remember). It's Amin who employed their services, along with other non-Ugandan tribes like the Anyanya and Kakwa of Sudan

Yes,Obote's intel was under overall control of his cousin but there was at least 2 or 3 senior operational Tutsis,one being Micombero,allegedly from Kigezi.

spartan wrote:To be honest with you, I have heard of this so-called Tutsi scheme, and I will tell you this. It stems from a deep inferiority complex its purveyors have against the Tutsi, much like the hatred of Jews goes hand in hand with feelings of inadequacy their haters have when they compare themselves to the Jews. Otherwise how do you explain a whole region ganging up on a small tribe whose main crime is to roam with their cattle?

I thought so too at first but the weight of the evidence proves there is a Tutsi plan to control the Great Lakes. 

spartan wrote:On that quote from the RPF, any names and places. It's easy (and cheap) for one to put words in quotation marks and attribute them to any other person without proper references

That quote is from the first mainstream refutation of the 'official truth' about the Rwanda 94 genocide. The book is a must read for all literate Africans. It undid all the bullshit by the likes of Prunier and Gourevitch and all the other RPF groupies.
Genocide and covert operations in Africa, 1993-1999,Wayne Madsen.

Btw,he's an ex US naval intel guy-he knows his shit!

Coming back to Luweero

Like I said I first heard the atrocities were done by M7's boys according to some Baganda buddies in the early 90s. Astonishingly his biggest supporters have publicly confirmed the same!!

"At the burial of [UPC stalwart] Adonia Tiberondwa recently [on December 28, 2004], Maj. Gen. Kahinda Otafiire, for example, revealed that the National Resistance Army rebels used to wear UPC colours and then go into villages in Luwero and kill people in order to make the people think these were actions of the UPC government. Otafiire was boasting of the "tricks" NRA employed to win support in Luwero, but was also revealing the sinister side of Museveni and his insurgents... Each time there was a reported case of mistreatment of civilians by the army, we arrested those responsible and punished them severely.
"The truth is that most of the soldiers in the army who were committing atrocities were Museveni's people. And whenever we zeroed in on them, they would run to join him in the bush in Luwero. Take the example of [Colonel] Pecos Kutesa. He had an interview with William Pike on Capital Radio in Kampala in [January] 1995 in a programme called Desert Island Discs. He told Pike that he was in UNLA but as an NRA infiltrator whose mission was to undermine the credibility of the army from within.
"Pecos Kutesa's testimony is instructive of how Museveni personally orchestrated the killings of innocent people and the harassment of civilians not just in Luwero but other parts of Uganda as well during the 1980s. His testimony is also important because it fits very well with what Otafiire and Lt. Gen. Elly Tumwine have confessed. Let us listen to Pecos Kutesa, whose interview on Capital Radio I have kept as my evidence. He told Pike that he used to be at a roadblock in Konge. As a lieutenant, he was the man in charge of that roadblock. According to Pecos Kutesa's own testimony on Capital Radio, Konge roadblock was the most notorious in harassing civilians, robbing them of their money and killing some. Kutesa says reports reached army headquarters of his harassment of the civilians and Oyite Ojok summoned him to Kampala for disciplinary action. He ran to the bush." (Daily Monitor, April 15, 2005).

http://hungryoftruth.blogspot.com/2009/10/truth-about-death-of-maj-gen-fred.html

This same trick,the false flag,the committing of atrocities on civilians while wearing uniforms of the enemy is a hallmark of the Tutsi strategy in the Great Lakes. Yes,Tutsis were killed by Hutus,especially after the plane shootdown but the RPF  fooled the whole world. You do know or should know,they'd infiltrated the FAR,Interahamwe and all the Hutu parties. This tactic is used by all the Congolese rebel movements which are actually proxies of Kigali and Kampala.

How stupid and duped we have been all this time!! I am going to make sure as many Ugandans as possible read this info. NOT

Fact is that there's nothing new in these allegations. The M7-hating brigade (of whom there are legion, including a one 'Mwaura') has made sure that the internet is awash with this hogwash.

M7's father and brothers, and at least one sister are alive and well and able to refute these lies, but obviously they have better things to do. Lets leave these conspiracies for when they die.

Seriously, you have wasted a lot of my time. Little wonder more serious members have left this forum. I think it's about time I ended my participation here

I'm sorry you feel that way;truly I am. In closing lets recap.
-M7's own associates have confessed publicly to committing false flags.
-Int'l investigators of impeccable reputation have confirmed the same in Rwanda,Uganda and the DRC
Most people believe in narratives-the comfortable non rigorous assumptions about everything.Because these assumptions conform to our own sense of reality we generally believe them wholeheartedly. eg,Kibera,Africa's largest slum with a 1mn+ inhabitants. It was only till a couple of years back an Italian mapping specialist examined the evidence and found that the likeliest estimate was 220,000 at most 250,000 souls.
Constantly we've all been fed the narrative ,urban poverty,inflation,joblessness and AIDS orphans worsening poverty levels so we believed what we've been told-1 mn Kibera residents fed into the whole story. The fact is poverty rates have been decreasing since 2003.
Point being? Investigate everything! You'll find the overwhelming majority of official narratives just don't add up-HIV/AIDS,6 mn dead Jews in WW2,30 mn Africans transported during the Transatlantic slave trade or the Global War on Terror are false.
I've always been interested in the whole Tutsi thing since I was in college in 93. A Burundian Tutsi in Nairobi  said I looked Tutsi,and many Kikuyus think I'm Borana. One of  my last freelance journo assignments I was in Uganda. On the Soroti-Moroto trip a Muhima stared at me the whole way. When we landed she said:"I thought you were my brother-he died last year." On a trip to Kigali the previous year I noticed the same thing among many Banyarwanda-quite a number are indistinguishable from Kikuyus,Kambas and Maasais........
Anyway,that was part of my reason for following this whole issue-along with finding the truth,not simply parroting other peoples concoctions and distortions for which,btw I have no apology.

good work from  uganda special forces  in amison ,SNA and ALPHA team for repulsing alshabaab attack on somali parliament .the following link has photos from the scene of the attack:WARNING GRAPHIC PHOTOS http://allbanaadir.net/news.php?readmore=412

from defence.go.ug

uganda airforce personnel being trained at ethiopian airforce technical colleges and graduation of ethiopian fighter pilots http://www.diretube.com/ethiopian-news/ethiopia-air-force-graduates-fighter-pilots-video_2c0a71310.html

The Ugandan People’s Defence Force (UPDF) has set up a facility to refurbish and reassemble armoured vehicles at its Magamaga army barracks.

Minister of State for Defence General Jeje Odongo launched the facility last week and commissioned the first seven Nyoka armoured personnel carriers, which are assembled from old Mamba vehicles acquired from South Africa......
http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=36021:ugandan-army-refurbishing-apcs&catid=50:Land&Itemid=105

Olekoima wrote:The Ugandan People’s Defence Force (UPDF) has set up a facility to refurbish and reassemble armoured vehicles at its Magamaga army barracks.

Minister of State for Defence General Jeje Odongo launched the facility last week and commissioned the first seven Nyoka armoured personnel carriers, which are assembled from old Mamba vehicles acquired from South Africa......
http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=36021:ugandan-army-refurbishing-apcs&catid=50:Land&Itemid=105

thanks for the post @Olekoima  and because of inspiration i did some research here is the end result even with this terrible nairobi net 


and here is a link to a UPDF officer tweeter account with photos https://twitter.com/HENRYobboUPDF/media

http://www.newvision.co.ug/news/659850-uganda-relies-on-eu-satellite-for-aviation.html

Hope the military one is working sawa sawa

mchoraji wrote:http://www.newvision.co.ug/news/659850-uganda-relies-on-eu-satellite-for-aviation.html

Hope the military one is working sawa sawa

thats a weather radar that broke and entebbe has a wind profiler for the vicinity of the airport

newvision


GULU – One person on-board a military aircraft escaped with his life after the plane he was flying crashed in the northern Ugandan district of Gulu on Thursday.

 

Colonel Joseph Balikuddembe, the Uganda People’s Defense Forces 4th Division Second-in-Command, said the plane crashed shortly after take-off from the 4th Division’s airbase.

 

The white L39 jet owned by the Uganda People’s Defence Forces was being flown by a trainee pilot, Emmaneul Sajjabi, who ejected the plane when it developed problems, in flight. 

 

“We use the plane for training purposes and routinely test our pilots on the same craft,” said Balikuddembe. 

 

The incident occurred in Patek Parish, Bobi subcounty.

 

The pilot sustained minor injuries and was moments after the crash taken to St. Mary’s Hospital, Lacor in Gulu Municipality.

 

Ambrose Otema who witnessed the air mishap said smoke billowed from the aircraft at around 12.30pm before going down.
 
http://www.newvision.co.ug/news/659658-military-plane-crashes-in-gulu-pilot-ejects-to-safety.html