Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

MkenyaI hv my own doubt of 50ACB having 16 pieces doing some secret manouvres,lyk the Z-9 gunships we should hv seen atleast one at embakasi doing some touch n goes.Nowadays we aren't that good at keeping secrets for the right $$ we'll sell you Kenya.We are teaching kids at UoN political science without proper vetting one topic bn a country's security installation and how to disable them....how well vetted are our security personnel against infiltration by ISIL,Alqaeda & Alshabaab terror groups.Rumours our chinese hardware is 80% grounded if true aint a vry good story.However we nid to consider Russian heavies DShK 12.7mm & PKM rifles they hardly have stoppages compared to Western guns we use Negev,HK21s & M60s better range,require less service and rust less than western guns.For Trucks Renault proved to our KDoD its the best troop carrier,choppers & planes lets just go where we always shopped MD-600 gunship/Hueys or Cobra gunship.Our buffs might survive or upgrade to C-130 with BO coming through.But our major challenge is corruption we shall end up buying substandard equipment and 2yrs again we nid to buy new stuff. wrote:

i wouldn,t agree on that , most of us or rather if i talk about myself hadn,t seen the Nora B-52 155 mm artillery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nora_B-52 until it was shown in a Kenya army documentary by a leading media house, even though it was list in the net that Ke own several pieces.

Well atleast the Nora B 52 purchase was listed on sipri website,nothing listed on any site about the Mi-24 Havoc purchase.And how would such a bird be shipped into the country as CKD assembled and fly out of 50ACB without anyone,somebody laying eyes on it.And dont you think it unwise embakasi bn their HQ not even one bn parked there...Not Kenya and our draconian military standing orders.

The Kenya we dream about aint the true state of Kenya... undergorund bunkers full of planes at LAB is an eutopia dream...and am sorry my fellow kenya for we have become a gullible lot money has corrupted us,for a few bucks our soldiers sold the mpeketoni raid footage to a western media house and the list of unpatriotic Kenyans is huge ,faulty APCS we deployed in S.Sudan according to a UN report,Steyr & FAW truck & buses,KNS Jasiri sat in a spanish port 4 good yrs,where are the EMs now etc. etc,.I doubt we gonna make good purchase with the $$ America has offered,unless we stop this ferocious appetite of taxpayers.

Again our topbrass is shopping in some middle eastern country foraging through their military junkyard.  i smell another F-5 scandal


Meanwhile Kenya Police is to acquire a secondhand Agusta Westland AW139 for Kshs.900M. And former airwing Boss, Ret.Col.Mbithi's contract not renewed i guess after the Garissa university saga ("sent a KP cessna plane to pick his inlaw from mombasa")as Recce sat in camp waiting for transport.The guy has 3,000hrs plus flying hrs. on F-5s n Hawk fighters.Almost every security contract / purchase is always dogged by controversy.....

proud kenyan wrote:

MkenyaI hv my own doubt of 50ACB having 16 pieces doing some secret manouvres,lyk the Z-9 gunships we should hv seen atleast one at embakasi doing some touch n goes.Nowadays we aren't that good at keeping secrets for the right $$ we'll sell you Kenya.We are teaching kids at UoN political science without proper vetting one topic bn a country's security installation and how to disable them....how well vetted are our security personnel against infiltration by ISIL,Alqaeda & Alshabaab terror groups.Rumours our chinese hardware is 80% grounded if true aint a vry good story.However we nid to consider Russian heavies DShK 12.7mm & PKM rifles they hardly have stoppages compared to Western guns we use Negev,HK21s & M60s better range,require less service and rust less than western guns.For Trucks Renault proved to our KDoD its the best troop carrier,choppers & planes lets just go where we always shopped MD-600 gunship/Hueys or Cobra gunship.Our buffs might survive or upgrade to C-130 with BO coming through.But our major challenge is corruption we shall end up buying substandard equipment and 2yrs again we nid to buy new stuff. wrote:

i wouldn,t agree on that , most of us or rather if i talk about myself hadn,t seen the Nora B-52 155 mm artillery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nora_B-52 until it was shown in a Kenya army documentary by a leading media house, even though it was list in the net that Ke own several pieces.

Well atleast the Nora B 52 purchase was listed on sipri website,nothing listed on any site about the Mi-24 Havoc purchase.And how would such a bird be shipped into the country as CKD assembled and fly out of 50ACB without anyone,somebody laying eyes on it.And dont you think it unwise embakasi bn their HQ not even one bn parked there...Not Kenya and our draconian military standing orders.

The Kenya we dream about aint the true state of Kenya... undergorund bunkers full of planes at LAB is an eutopia dream...and am sorry my fellow kenya for we have become a gullible lot money has corrupted us,for a few bucks our soldiers sold the mpeketoni raid footage to a western media house and the list of unpatriotic Kenyans is huge ,faulty APCS we deployed in S.Sudan according to a UN report,Steyr & FAW truck & buses,KNS Jasiri sat in a spanish port 4 good yrs,where are the EMs now etc. etc,.I doubt we gonna make good purchase with the $$ America has offered,unless we stop this ferocious appetite of taxpayers.

Again our topbrass is shopping in some middle eastern country foraging through their military junkyard.  i smell another F-5 scandal


Meanwhile Kenya Police is to acquire a secondhand Agusta Westland AW139 for Kshs.900M. And former airwing Boss, Ret.Col.Mbithi's contract not renewed i guess after the Garissa university saga ("sent a KP cessna plane to pick his inlaw from mombasa")as Recce sat in camp waiting for transport.The guy has 3,000hrs plus flying hrs. on F-5s n Hawk fighters.Almost every security contract / purchase is always dogged by controversy.....

I think you are to some extent throwing a tantrum, and here are my reasons. 
1. Junk airframes: At this point in time, I understand why the AF opted for the F5s. Military planners had foreseen the need to stock up on them for OLN, while me and millions other kenyans felt the need to bay for the brass' blood. Take the case of the Grobs, before they were delivered to Kenya, they had to undergo training in germany for a number of months, if not years. Then upon delivery, those trained alongside other airmen from the manufacturer had to come train some more airmen, meaning more time to get guys fully accustomed to the birds. Now transfer the same to fighters, and you have a military op next door with no sufficient air cover, hell would have broken loose amongst the population. The solution: birds the airmen are used to. Remember soldiers are creatures of running simulations, if their simulations tells them Uganda has T-90 tanks, they would rather go for serious tank killer rotaries to give time to superior tanks to arrive for a dance in the theatre. If kenya went for the armata tank at this point, the defence budget would firstly increase, and kenyans bay for blood from the brass,  while the threat from neighbouring countries would mean the T72 would be more than adequate (aim to kill a mosquito with a hammer, significant overkill and damage on surfaces hit with hammer make it unpopular). Add to that the need to have compatible systems on your weaponry in theatre. That is the kind of conondrum currently faced by the brass. It is not a lack of smartness that most airforces have some airframes specifically for keeeping fleets afloat before orders for spares are fulfilled via cannibalizing parts, so for the fact that they could not fly does not mean they had to, their cannibalization may have been their purpose.
2. Birds currently on  the shopping list: Remember a military formation is funded by a populace that expects what is due to them at a cost effective price. Thus the bird's operational costs per hour would need to be justified, but good enough to carry out the role envisioned of it. Hence the Hi-Lo config envisioned here before, (like the zionists you hate with your gut, and their operation to bomb Iraq's nuclear power plant whereby the Lo role was done by F16s and the Hi role by F15s). At this point in time, if brass delivers a poor bird, they know their asses would be on the line because somalia is currently well marshalled by the F5s, and there would be adequate time to train and adapt to the new birds by the airmen before their need in combat is needed. I came across a list of operational costs per jet per hour, have a look and divulge your thoughts on a bird that wont get the populace riled up at operational costs as well as purchase costs for new and used frames: http://nation.time.com/2013/04/02/costly-flight-hours/  http://russiancouncil.ru/en/inner/?id_4=4168#top-content  http://www.iol.co.za/news/politics/saaf-jets-aren-t-in-storage-says-general-1.1572829#.Vdbwc_mqqko  http://www.stratpost.com/gripen-operational-cost-lowest-of-all-western-fighters-janes  http://www.stratpost.com/why-fighter-operating-costs-matter  http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?95008-list-of-combat-aircraft-flight-cost-per-hour/page3  http://defence.pk/threads/cost-of-buying-operating-fighters-its-effects-on-sales.84507/

3. Corruption: on this field, I supprot you 100%, nothing more to say on that.

Balozi wrote:i think we got our priorities and talks mixed up. we are at TEA with the common ambitions for disusing and educating  each other on weapons and tactic within our environment and neighborhood. that what we are passionate about and not policies making.
believe me no 3 star general or top brass looks into this web or any other for that matter in order to chart or decide the way forward weather they are corrupt or not .
so if you think you can politic the military or formulate rules and regulation on the KE military procurement this website, your are backing up the wrong tree fellas.
so lets discus what we are passionate about share experiences with present and past uniformeers  rather that demoralizing  the the web, if you not happy with such discussion you can remain silent or enroll in other name calling blogs

Balozi wrote:i think we got our priorities and talks mixed up. we are at TEA with the common ambitions for disusing and educating  each other on weapons and tactic within our environment and neighborhood. that what we are passionate about and not policies making.
believe me no 3 star general or top brass looks into this web or any other for that matter in order to chart or decide the way forward weather they are corrupt or not .
so if you think you can politic the military or formulate rules and regulation on the KE military procurement this website, your are backing up the wrong tree fellas.
so lets discus what we are passionate about share experiences with present and past uniformeers  rather that demoralizing  the the web, if you not happy with such discussion you can remain silent or enroll in other name calling blogs

namibia wrote:The small Windhoek based company Sat-Com believes its wideband manpack size radio, called The Leopard, offers unique features suited especially to special forces. The radio in its various configurations is on display this week at the company’s small stand at the DSEI show in London, where Sat-Com hopes to achieve traction in the global marketplace.

DUTCH wrote:Moreover, the number of Royal Netherlands Air Force F-16s Fighting Falcons has shrunk from 181 in 1990 to 68 in 2011, while the number of frigates and destroyers in the Royal Netherlands Navy has declined from 15 in 1990 to a mere 6 in 2011.[8]

canada wrote:Yet, inexplicably, we have allowed our Navy to rot so badly, it is now ranked with the maritime forces of Bangladesh.

MWAURA wrote:

Balozi wrote:i think we got our priorities and talks mixed up. we are at TEA with the common ambitions for disusing and educating  each other on weapons and tactic within our environment and neighborhood. that what we are passionate about and not policies making.
believe me no 3 star general or top brass looks into this web or any other for that matter in order to chart or decide the way forward weather they are corrupt or not .
so if you think you can politic the military or formulate rules and regulation on the KE military procurement this website, your are backing up the wrong tree fellas.
so lets discus what we are passionate about share experiences with present and past uniformeers  rather that demoralizing  the the web, if you not happy with such discussion you can remain silent or enroll in other name calling blogs

I've noticed whenever posts about KDF expenditure come up,we always hear 'corruption!' Realllyyy?? Having to make do with refurb F5s is political/economic reality-our democratic system can't do a Uganda and break the bank on new Sues or similar big ticket items.
If we remember we're 3rd world funding our teachers,doctors and forces on basically tea,tourism,coffee,horticulture and flowers,Imo we'd have  a better understanding of our situation. I'm not saying there's no corruption or that we shouldn't licence build more stuff,(Namibia builds all their own radio comms,eg,Nigerians have built a harbour security vessel and will soon build a corvette)

namibia wrote:The small Windhoek based company Sat-Com believes its wideband manpack size radio, called The Leopard, offers unique features suited especially to special forces. The radio in its various configurations is on display this week at the company’s small stand at the DSEI show in London, where Sat-Com hopes to achieve traction in the global marketplace.

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=31860:namibian-company-sat-com-showcasing-radios-at-dsei&catid=7:Industry&
temid=116



Also,even the 1st world can be astonishingly jua kali. Look at the Dutch,with one of the highest GDPs in the world:they don't have a single MBT!!

DUTCH wrote:Moreover, the number of Royal Netherlands Air Force F-16s Fighting Falcons has shrunk from 181 in 1990 to 68 in 2011, while the number of frigates and destroyers in the Royal Netherlands Navy has declined from 15 in 1990 to a mere 6 in 2011.[8]

https://www.aei.org/publication/dutch-hard-power-choosing-decline/

Fyi,Canada no longer has a blue water navy.

canada wrote:Yet, inexplicably, we have allowed our Navy to rot so badly, it is now ranked with the maritime forces of Bangladesh.

!!??
http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/the-sinking-of-the-canadian-navy/

How the fuck does that happen?? Read the link-are we comparatively that bad-hardly. Critisize yes,fb type generalisations don't help.

Mkenya wrote:

Balozi wrote:i think we got our priorities and talks mixed up. we are at TEA with the common ambitions for disusing and educating  each other on weapons and tactic within our environment and neighborhood. that what we are passionate about and not policies making.
believe me no 3 star general or top brass looks into this web or any other for that matter in order to chart or decide the way forward weather they are corrupt or not .
so if you think you can politic the military or formulate rules and regulation on the KE military procurement this website, your are backing up the wrong tree fellas.
so lets discus what we are passionate about share experiences with present and past uniformeers  rather that demoralizing  the the web, if you not happy with such discussion you can remain silent or enroll in other name calling blogs

Thank you Sir,if no 3 star or Top Bra looks here why does it pain you what i say or think......easy focus its just a blog we aint in the military here on this blog, nobody outranks the other but only by knowledge.

If your passionate about your country's security then the poor choices made should arouse sentiments unless your loyalty to your country is questionable.

Theirs a time Kenyan military used to standout from the rest(still does but has lost some glitter),best airforce in the region----overtaken badly,with the best MBT & tank neutralizer in the region when everyone else was fielding T-55s, best Navy in E.A. but neighbors too are coming up fast .

If that does evoke a sense of disappointment and Kenyanism that prompts u wanna vote in good leaders next time who in turn appoint good responsible commanders to lead & manage our security properly,reject & retire sour grapes in uniform.Then sijui nitakwambia vipi

Mkenya wrote:

MWAURA wrote:

Balozi wrote:i think we got our priorities and talks mixed up. we are at TEA with the common ambitions for disusing and educating  each other on weapons and tactic within our environment and neighborhood. that what we are passionate about and not policies making.
believe me no 3 star general or top brass looks into this web or any other for that matter in order to chart or decide the way forward weather they are corrupt or not .
so if you think you can politic the military or formulate rules and regulation on the KE military procurement this website, your are backing up the wrong tree fellas.
so lets discus what we are passionate about share experiences with present and past uniformeers  rather that demoralizing  the the web, if you not happy with such discussion you can remain silent or enroll in other name calling blogs

I've noticed whenever posts about KDF expenditure come up,we always hear 'corruption!' Realllyyy?? Having to make do with refurb F5s is political/economic reality-our democratic system can't do a Uganda and break the bank on new Sues or similar big ticket items.
If we remember we're 3rd world funding our teachers,doctors and forces on basically tea,tourism,coffee,horticulture and flowers,Imo we'd have  a better understanding of our situation. I'm not saying there's no corruption or that we shouldn't licence build more stuff,(Namibia builds all their own radio comms,eg,Nigerians have built a harbour security vessel and will soon build a corvette)

namibia wrote:The small Windhoek based company Sat-Com believes its wideband manpack size radio, called The Leopard, offers unique features suited especially to special forces. The radio in its various configurations is on display this week at the company’s small stand at the DSEI show in London, where Sat-Com hopes to achieve traction in the global marketplace.

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=31860:namibian-company-sat-com-showcasing-radios-at-dsei&catid=7:Industry&
temid=116



Also,even the 1st world can be astonishingly jua kali. Look at the Dutch,with one of the highest GDPs in the world:they don't have a single MBT!!

DUTCH wrote:Moreover, the number of Royal Netherlands Air Force F-16s Fighting Falcons has shrunk from 181 in 1990 to 68 in 2011, while the number of frigates and destroyers in the Royal Netherlands Navy has declined from 15 in 1990 to a mere 6 in 2011.[8]

https://www.aei.org/publication/dutch-hard-power-choosing-decline/

Fyi,Canada no longer has a blue water navy.

canada wrote:Yet, inexplicably, we have allowed our Navy to rot so badly, it is now ranked with the maritime forces of Bangladesh.

!!??
http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/the-sinking-of-the-canadian-navy/

How the fuck does that happen?? Read the link-are we comparatively that bad-hardly. Critisize yes,fb type generalisations don't help.

First am open to constructive debate,correction and criticism....

Every county has its own threat matrix,reason for massive or less armament requirements.Kenya doesn't sit pretty,lawless Somalia over the years has proved to us its an a** bitter.Unresolved S.Sudan border disputes at Kibich rumored to be hydrocarbon rich,sometimes volatile Ethiopia-Kenya border.....T-90/72,Su 27,29,30/Mil 24 Hind etc in the neighborhood & discovery of minerals along common border points can turn perceived friendlies to aggressors.
True we cant do a M7 grab purse and run to shop....bt some purchases we do are abit outtasync #mytwocent........An Englishman saying: If you can't beat em join them..if we cant get Western airframes lets join the bandwagon of Sukhoi 24/ 27/29/30/ n Mig 29s and aim to be best in them.For $7M for a Su27 (google search)
------------------------------ 
Generalize not.....Canada can retire its entire armed forces if need be, they border US the best of the best in military technologies: NORAD,ICBMs,Stealth and laser weapons,UAVs, a country that's pursuing robots & robotic skeleton suits for its future military excursions etc......the whole shebang.

The Dutch.....Europe is plagued by a three prong problem,a revamped militarized mother Russia, EU's biggest gas & oil supplier flexing its muscles... flying its Bear bombers and other platforms over the europe weekly,NATO joint air policing of their skies (aircraft pooling under NATO) so why maintain many airframes in europe? too with a biting financial crisis military cutbacks are always expected.

KDF too has its good innovations a diesel powered field kitchen a  very sellable idea,the Navy mapping our ocean floor done by very few if any african countries among others ,so its only non-objective criticism.

livefire wrote:Today I happened to be in Kenyatta University assisting a kin with registratiom when suddenly something quite spectacular passed above the skies...The elusive Mi-28 chopper. (only one) ....route commonly used by z-9 and I almost assumed its the same model  but on a closer look the canopy were nothing like a z9. The tail didn't conform to a z9 design too

the birds are around guys.  Circled like twice then whizzed away though twas at a very high altitude.  Couldnt get clear shots.  can anyone confirm the same?

timoh wrote:hmmm......i'll get this started with the meagre knowledge i have and movies i have watched   'last ship'. keywords project power, USD 1.5B.
in power projection, i'd consider a freaking warship with a helipad&hangar, vertically launched missile system (guided-missile capabilities), torpedo tubes + sonar, and a big stick. then two silent diesel subs. then land based anti-ship missiles. that would do i guess oh, plus amphibious landing crafts and create a marine force say 5000men.
now you guys, do the math

jasiri wrote:You guys are very bored!

Ok ladies, here is one you will actually love (seeing as all of you have specialised in military prcurement)...
Your mission: Build a navy that is umatched on the east coast of Africa. It should be able to project power outside its borders, establish and ensure Kenyan economic dominance on the eastern seaboard, support humanitarian and civil aid missions.
Your Budget: 1.5 B USD
Discuss.

mambotupu wrote:

jasiri wrote:You guys are very bored!

Ok ladies, here is one you will actually love (seeing as all of you have specialised in military prcurement)...
Your mission: Build a navy that is umatched on the east coast of Africa. It should be able to project power outside its borders, establish and ensure Kenyan economic dominance on the eastern seaboard, support humanitarian and civil aid missions.
Your Budget: 1.5 B USD
Discuss.

Strategy: adopt flexible and affordable smaller platforms with which we can show the flag in hostile waters and protect naval combat groups close to the shore, protect offshore oil rigs, etc

Frigate platform: Absalon type 1@270m = $270m
Corvette Platforms: Saar -5 type or Visby type : 2 @ $200 m = $400 m
Fast attack platform: Skjold or Hamina types :5@$120 m = $600 m
Sea Fighter FSF 1 platform: =$230 m

jasiri wrote:

mambotupu wrote:

jasiri wrote:You guys are very bored!

Ok ladies, here is one you will actually love (seeing as all of you have specialised in military prcurement)...
Your mission: Build a navy that is umatched on the east coast of Africa. It should be able to project power outside its borders, establish and ensure Kenyan economic dominance on the eastern seaboard, support humanitarian and civil aid missions.
Your Budget: 1.5 B USD
Discuss.

Strategy: adopt flexible and affordable smaller platforms with which we can show the flag in hostile waters and protect naval combat groups close to the shore, protect offshore oil rigs, etc

Frigate platform: Absalon type 1@270m = $270m
Corvette Platforms: Saar -5 type or Visby type : 2 @ $200 m = $400 m
Fast attack platform: Skjold or Hamina types :5@$120 m = $600 m
Sea Fighter FSF 1 platform: =$230 m

 

Sea Lift and coastal patrol platforms? "Support humanitarian and Civil aid missions"....

mambotupu wrote:

jasiri wrote:

mambotupu wrote:

jasiri wrote:You guys are very bored!

Ok ladies, here is one you will actually love (seeing as all of you have specialised in military prcurement)...
Your mission: Build a navy that is umatched on the east coast of Africa. It should be able to project power outside its borders, establish and ensure Kenyan economic dominance on the eastern seaboard, support humanitarian and civil aid missions.
Your Budget: 1.5 B USD
Discuss.

Strategy: adopt flexible and affordable smaller platforms with which we can show the flag in hostile waters and protect naval combat groups close to the shore, protect offshore oil rigs, etc

Frigate platform: Absalon type 1@270m = $270m
Corvette Platforms: Saar -5 type or Visby type : 2 @ $200 m = $400 m
Fast attack platform: Skjold or Hamina types :5@$120 m = $600 m
Sea Fighter FSF 1 platform: =$230 m

 

Sea Lift and coastal patrol platforms? "Support humanitarian and Civil aid missions"....

Substitute the Sea Fighter FSF 1 with one multipurpose support vessel e.g Endurance class landing platform dock

jasiri wrote:You guys are very bored!

Ok ladies, here is one you will actually love (seeing as all of you have specialised in military prcurement)...
Your mission: Build a navy that is umatched on the east coast of Africa. It should be able to project power outside its borders, establish and ensure Kenyan economic dominance on the eastern seaboard, support humanitarian and civil aid missions.
Your Budget: 1.5 B USD
Discuss.

def.pk wrote:The Saryu Class featuring an automatic radar plotting aid (ARPA), Differential Global Positioning System (DGPS), gyro compass, magnetic compass, echosounder, speed log and Auto Pilot. The vessels also integrate an Electronic Chart Display and Information System (ECDIS) and communications according to Global Maritime Distress and Safety System (GMDSS) A3 regulations. The mast carries the ESM and communications gear. A Fire Control System (FCS) is fitted for the 76mm. There is an electro-optical gun director over the bridge, with a SP-521 Rakurs (Kolonka-2) backup ringsight director just forward of the elop 'ball'. This 'ball' may be Rafael C-lite and the associated DAFCO fire control system, or a similar system. The AK630s appear to each have a ring-sight as well (but probably can also be controlled by the elop 'ball' and FCS). The weapon package also includes chaff launchers (ECM) .

MWAURA wrote:

jasiri wrote:You guys are very bored!

Ok ladies, here is one you will actually love (seeing as all of you have specialised in military prcurement)...
Your mission: Build a navy that is umatched on the east coast of Africa. It should be able to project power outside its borders, establish and ensure Kenyan economic dominance on the eastern seaboard, support humanitarian and civil aid missions.
Your Budget: 1.5 B USD
Discuss.

Interesting! From the responses it seems some are destined to live like the dude with 5k$ who thinks he's a Rockefeller! Guys,lets assume a 500 man not 5000 MEF. Ideally it'd have its own air element,some choppers,hopefully also some fixed wing transport,maybe a dedicated MPA or 3 since combined usage would drastically lower service life of expensive aircraft. Fyi,Kenyana is N Moz to Socotra.
How much would training and equipping them cost? A SCAR averages 2500$. Ofc,large purchases lower the cost. Don't forget ammo,and daily feeding ,washing and housing 500 young niggas! The MEF would presumably need land vehicles-MRAPs,and or LAFVs up to maybe 105mm in case of contested landings,which is their primary purpose.
A lone sub is no good-at least 2. This needs some land based support for basic maintenance and resupply eg,loading food and torps. You should know apart from price Euro suppliers of any hardware always dictate usage and inject politics. What if hostilities break out with say Saudis over Al Shabaab support and the French who sold you an Agusta suddenly find a reason not to supply the badly needed new batteries as specified in the contract?
It happens! In fact every African country invaded finds itself in such a  situation-look at Ethiopia 1999,Cote de Ivoire where French supported Burkinabe mercs attacked or the DRC where Anglo Zionist have been wreaking havoc since 98 while the gov't has been under an arms embargo 'to enforce peace.'
To start with



3 Indian Saryus.

def.pk wrote:The Saryu Class featuring an automatic radar plotting aid (ARPA), Differential Global Positioning System (DGPS), gyro compass, magnetic compass, echosounder, speed log and Auto Pilot. The vessels also integrate an Electronic Chart Display and Information System (ECDIS) and communications according to Global Maritime Distress and Safety System (GMDSS) A3 regulations. The mast carries the ESM and communications gear. A Fire Control System (FCS) is fitted for the 76mm. There is an electro-optical gun director over the bridge, with a SP-521 Rakurs (Kolonka-2) backup ringsight director just forward of the elop 'ball'. This 'ball' may be Rafael C-lite and the associated DAFCO fire control system, or a similar system. The AK630s appear to each have a ring-sight as well (but probably can also be controlled by the elop 'ball' and FCS). The weapon package also includes chaff launchers (ECM) .

Source: http://defence.pk/threads/indian-navy-set-to-commission-3rd-saryu-class-nopv-ins-sumedha.303042/page-2#ixzz3lyv4Igoa

For only a 100mn$ a pop! A 3 ship deal would ofc lower the combined purchase price significantly,maybe up to 15%.
I'm busy and will add tomorrow. Guys,its not simple a task as you're making it! More thought is needed. Chew on this short post,rethink and return.

jasiri wrote:

MWAURA wrote:

jasiri wrote:You guys are very bored!

Ok ladies, here is one you will actually love (seeing as all of you have specialised in military prcurement)...
Your mission: Build a navy that is umatched on the east coast of Africa. It should be able to project power outside its borders, establish and ensure Kenyan economic dominance on the eastern seaboard, support humanitarian and civil aid missions.
Your Budget: 1.5 B USD
Discuss.

Interesting! From the responses it seems some are destined to live like the dude with 5k$ who thinks he's a Rockefeller! Guys,lets assume a 500 man not 5000 MEF. Ideally it'd have its own air element,some choppers,hopefully also some fixed wing transport,maybe a dedicated MPA or 3 since combined usage would drastically lower service life of expensive aircraft. Fyi,Kenyana is N Moz to Socotra.
How much would training and equipping them cost? A SCAR averages 2500$. Ofc,large purchases lower the cost. Don't forget ammo,and daily feeding ,washing and housing 500 young niggas! The MEF would presumably need land vehicles-MRAPs,and or LAFVs up to maybe 105mm in case of contested landings,which is their primary purpose.
A lone sub is no good-at least 2. This needs some land based support for basic maintenance and resupply eg,loading food and torps. You should know apart from price Euro suppliers of any hardware always dictate usage and inject politics. What if hostilities break out with say Saudis over Al Shabaab support and the French who sold you an Agusta suddenly find a reason not to supply the badly needed new batteries as specified in the contract?
It happens! In fact every African country invaded finds itself in such a  situation-look at Ethiopia 1999,Cote de Ivoire where French supported Burkinabe mercs attacked or the DRC where Anglo Zionist have been wreaking havoc since 98 while the gov't has been under an arms embargo 'to enforce peace.'
To start with



3 Indian Saryus.

def.pk wrote:The Saryu Class featuring an automatic radar plotting aid (ARPA), Differential Global Positioning System (DGPS), gyro compass, magnetic compass, echosounder, speed log and Auto Pilot. The vessels also integrate an Electronic Chart Display and Information System (ECDIS) and communications according to Global Maritime Distress and Safety System (GMDSS) A3 regulations. The mast carries the ESM and communications gear. A Fire Control System (FCS) is fitted for the 76mm. There is an electro-optical gun director over the bridge, with a SP-521 Rakurs (Kolonka-2) backup ringsight director just forward of the elop 'ball'. This 'ball' may be Rafael C-lite and the associated DAFCO fire control system, or a similar system. The AK630s appear to each have a ring-sight as well (but probably can also be controlled by the elop 'ball' and FCS). The weapon package also includes chaff launchers (ECM) .

Source: http://defence.pk/threads/indian-navy-set-to-commission-3rd-saryu-class-nopv-ins-sumedha.303042/page-2#ixzz3lyv4Igoa

For only a 100mn$ a pop! A 3 ship deal would ofc lower the combined purchase price significantly,maybe up to 15%.
I'm busy and will add tomorrow. Guys,its not simple a task as you're making it! More thought is needed. Chew on this short post,rethink and return.

100M USD does seem like a fair price, however considering Saryus are not really armed wont the River class from BAE be more cost effective? 70 Mil a piece and an pportunit for backdoor spare parts from Brasili as they oppereate them in Amazonas class config....These can act as the tongs protecting the coastlines and offshoreoil platforms while an uparmed sister (Russian Tiger classs maybe) pushes the fence further seward and acts as the hammer. To me, there really isnt any need for subsconsidering how advanced modern USV's have become.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River-class_patrol_vessel wrote:In August 2014, BAE Systems signed the £348 million contract to build the three new OPVs on the Clyde in Scotland.

MWAURA wrote:Moving onto your original question. The MEF will be our new Rapid Deployment Force;suitable for humanitarian assistance in flood hit N Mozambique to armoured warfare in Khartoum or fighting FFL in the CAR to destroy forces fighting the LAPSSET.

Look at the US marines Expeditionary Unit for an idea of the force structure needed.

Qty Nomenclature Element
4 to 6 AH-1W SuperCobra attack helicopters aviation
6 AV-8B Harrier jet aviation
12 CH-46E Sea Knight medium lift assault helicopter aviation
4 CH-53E Super Stallion heavy lift assault helicopter aviation
2 KC-130 Hercules re-fueler/transport aircraft
Note: usually maintained in the continental United States aviation
3 UH-1N Twin Huey utility helicopter aviation
6 155mm howitzer: M777 ground
15 Assault Amphibious Vehicle ground
8 BGM-71 Tube-Launched, Optically-Tracked, Wire-Guided (TOW) missile weapon system ground
8 FGM-148 Javelin anti-tank missile ground
7 to 16 Light Armored Vehicle ground
4 M1A1 main battle tank ground
8 M252 81mm mortar ground
3 D7 bulldozer logistics
1 LMT 3000 water purification unit logistics
1 Medium Tactical Vehicle Replacement dump truck logistics
4 Mk48 Logistics Vehicle System logistics
2 Reverse Osmosis Water Purification Unit logistics
4 Tractor, Rubber Tire, Articulated Steering logistics
2 TX51-19M Rough Terrain Forklift logistics
7 500 gallon water containers multiple
63 Humvee multiple
30 Medium Tactical Vehicle Replacement trucks multiple

This is the typically US equipment/tech/logistically heavy formation. This is the ToE of a MEU with 2500 guys led by a Colonel.
As I said we'll start with 500 guys with a  spare coy and a support platoon of cooks,clerks,logistics guys etc giving us a  battalion of around 700. All must be trained trigger pullers operating the SCAR 7.62 mm and Tanforce 10mm.

Using the MEU as our guide this is my ideal  Kenya MEF ToE.
5 Z-9s @       16 mn$ each                             80 mn $

3 Mi 26 Halos   15 mn$ each                             45 mn$

2 C 295s at        35 mn$ each                           70 mn$

10 Mi 17s at         18 mn $ each                         180 mn$

30 Otokar Cobras  300,000 $ each                         9 mn $

10 Rooikat 105 mm (fitted with APS) 350,000$ each  3.5 mn $

8 caged Marauder MRAPs 0.5$ mn each                   4.0 mn$

4 Armata 152s at 11 mn$ each                              44 mn$
                                               
                                                  roughly            440 mn$

Let me pause here kiasi: THIS IS STILL INCOMPLETE

Haiyyyaaa! See what I told you guys?! 1.5 bn $ to create a navy isn't that much. I haven't finished the ToE,let alone ships! Btw,you do know we'll need barracks and proper support facilities for these birds maybe even a full KN Marine airbase?
For now,imo,we'll have to begin a JV for any further navy vessels after the 3 Saryus-at 300 mn$ and incomplete kitting out so far has KULAD HALF THE BUDGET!!

MWAURA wrote:Moving onto your original question. The MEF will be our new Rapid Deployment Force;suitable for humanitarian assistance in flood hit N Mozambique to armoured warfare in Khartoum or fighting FFL in the CAR to destroy forces fighting the LAPSSET.

Look at the US marines Expeditionary Unit for an idea of the force structure needed.

Qty Nomenclature Element
4 to 6 AH-1W SuperCobra attack helicopters aviation
6 AV-8B Harrier jet aviation
12 CH-46E Sea Knight medium lift assault helicopter aviation
4 CH-53E Super Stallion heavy lift assault helicopter aviation
2 KC-130 Hercules re-fueler/transport aircraft
Note: usually maintained in the continental United States aviation
3 UH-1N Twin Huey utility helicopter aviation
6 155mm howitzer: M777 ground
15 Assault Amphibious Vehicle ground
8 BGM-71 Tube-Launched, Optically-Tracked, Wire-Guided (TOW) missile weapon system ground
8 FGM-148 Javelin anti-tank missile ground
7 to 16 Light Armored Vehicle ground
4 M1A1 main battle tank ground
8 M252 81mm mortar ground
3 D7 bulldozer logistics
1 LMT 3000 water purification unit logistics
1 Medium Tactical Vehicle Replacement dump truck logistics
4 Mk48 Logistics Vehicle System logistics
2 Reverse Osmosis Water Purification Unit logistics
4 Tractor, Rubber Tire, Articulated Steering logistics
2 TX51-19M Rough Terrain Forklift logistics
7 500 gallon water containers multiple
63 Humvee multiple
30 Medium Tactical Vehicle Replacement trucks multiple

This is the typically US equipment/tech/logistically heavy formation. This is the ToE of a MEU with 2500 guys led by a Colonel.
As I said we'll start with 500 guys with a  spare coy and a support platoon of cooks,clerks,logistics guys etc giving us a  battalion of around 700. All must be trained trigger pullers operating the SCAR 7.62 mm and Tanforce 10mm.

Using the MEU as our guide this is my ideal  Kenya MEF ToE.
5 Z-9s @       16 mn$ each                             80 mn $

3 Mi 26 Halos   15 mn$ each                             45 mn$

2 C 295s at        35 mn$ each                           70 mn$

10 Mi 17s at         18 mn $ each                         180 mn$

30 Otokar Cobras  300,000 $ each                         9 mn $

10 Rooikat 105 mm (fitted with APS) 350,000$ each  3.5 mn $

Actually that's 4mn$ each                                 40 mn $

8 caged Marauder MRAPs 0.5$ mn each                   4.0 mn$

4 Armata 152s at 11 mn$ each                              44 mn$
                                               
                                                  roughly            440 mn$  480 mn $

Let me pause here kiasi: THIS IS STILL INCOMPLETE

Haiyyyaaa! See what I told you guys?! 1.5 bn $ to create a navy isn't that much. I haven't finished the ToE,let alone ships! Btw,you do know we'll need barracks and proper support facilities for these birds maybe even a full KN Marine airbase?
For now,imo,we'll have to begin a JV for any further navy vessels after the 3 Saryus-at 300 mn$ and incomplete kitting out so far has KULAD HALF THE BUDGET!!

MWAURA wrote:

MWAURA wrote:Moving onto your original question. The MEF will be our new Rapid Deployment Force;suitable for humanitarian assistance in flood hit N Mozambique to armoured warfare in Khartoum or fighting FFL in the CAR to destroy forces fighting the LAPSSET.

Look at the US marines Expeditionary Unit for an idea of the force structure needed.

Qty Nomenclature Element
4 to 6 AH-1W SuperCobra attack helicopters aviation
6 AV-8B Harrier jet aviation
12 CH-46E Sea Knight medium lift assault helicopter aviation
4 CH-53E Super Stallion heavy lift assault helicopter aviation
2 KC-130 Hercules re-fueler/transport aircraft
Note: usually maintained in the continental United States aviation
3 UH-1N Twin Huey utility helicopter aviation
6 155mm howitzer: M777 ground
15 Assault Amphibious Vehicle ground
8 BGM-71 Tube-Launched, Optically-Tracked, Wire-Guided (TOW) missile weapon system ground
8 FGM-148 Javelin anti-tank missile ground
7 to 16 Light Armored Vehicle ground
4 M1A1 main battle tank ground
8 M252 81mm mortar ground
3 D7 bulldozer logistics
1 LMT 3000 water purification unit logistics
1 Medium Tactical Vehicle Replacement dump truck logistics
4 Mk48 Logistics Vehicle System logistics
2 Reverse Osmosis Water Purification Unit logistics
4 Tractor, Rubber Tire, Articulated Steering logistics
2 TX51-19M Rough Terrain Forklift logistics
7 500 gallon water containers multiple
63 Humvee multiple
30 Medium Tactical Vehicle Replacement trucks multiple

This is the typically US equipment/tech/logistically heavy formation. This is the ToE of a MEU with 2500 guys led by a Colonel.
As I said we'll start with 500 guys with a  spare coy and a support platoon of cooks,clerks,logistics guys etc giving us a  battalion of around 700. All must be trained trigger pullers operating the SCAR 7.62 mm and Tanforce 10mm.

Using the MEU as our guide this is my ideal  Kenya MEF ToE.
5 Z-9s @       16 mn$ each                             80 mn $

3 Mi 26 Halos   15 mn$ each                             45 mn$

2 C 295s at        35 mn$ each                           70 mn$

10 Mi 17s at         18 mn $ each                         180 mn$

30 Otokar Cobras  300,000 $ each                         9 mn $

10 Rooikat 105 mm (fitted with APS) 350,000$ each  3.5 mn $

Actually that's 4mn$ each                                 40 mn $

8 caged Marauder MRAPs 0.5$ mn each                   4.0 mn$

4 Armata 152s at 11 mn$ each                              44 mn$
                                               
                                                  roughly            440 mn$  480 mn $

Let me pause here kiasi: THIS IS STILL INCOMPLETE

Haiyyyaaa! See what I told you guys?! 1.5 bn $ to create a navy isn't that much. I haven't finished the ToE,let alone ships! Btw,you do know we'll need barracks and proper support facilities for these birds maybe even a full KN Marine airbase?
For now,imo,we'll have to begin a JV for any further navy vessels after the 3 Saryus-at 300 mn$ and incomplete kitting out so far has KULAD HALF THE BUDGET!!

Btw,most not all figures from here:http://nationsdawnofanera.weebly.com/

An excellent resource!

Continued           3 pieces     BUK M2 @ 30 mn$ each               90$ mn

Mortars

                      6 pieces,  120mm   @40000 $ each                 240,000$
       
                     8 pieces     81 mm   @ 24,0000$ each              192,000$

                     10 pieces    60 mm   @ 10,000 $ each               100,000$

Artillery

              G7   6 pieces,105 MM @ 2.5 mn each                     15 mn $
     
              G6,  6 pieces, SP howitzer @ 7 mn $ each               42 mn $

              8 pieces,Superav Amphibious assault vehicles 3 mn$ each 24mn$

  Anti tank kornet 10 pieces at 88,000 $ each                         888,000 $


20 pieces RPG 32@ 3000 $ each                                              60,000$

           2 pieces,D7 Bulldozer @ 500,000 $ each                 1 mn$
 
          2 pieces,10 wheeled supply trucks @ 200,000 $           400,000$

          2 pieces,4x4 pickups @ 45,000$ each                        90,000$

         3 pieces Rough terrain forklift @ 30,000 $ each            90,000 $
   
          2 pieces,Reverse Osmosis Water Purification Unit @ 20,000 $ each 40,000$

         10 medium tactical trucks @ 250,000 $ each               2.5 mn $

         3 pieces armoured amphib dozer @ 2.5 mn$ each           7.5 mn $

         3 pieces M88 heavy armoured recovery vehicle @ 2.5 mn each 7.5 mn $

        8 pieces, handheld Lehmann Aviation LV580 UAVs @ 50,000 $ each 400,000$

       4 pieces,armed Hermes 450 drones @ 5 mn$ each                  20 mn$


That correction of the Rooikat price and the additional equipment puts an extra 286 mn$  hole in our budget.



Later we'll look at the nuts and bolts of the unit, ie the rifles,uniforms,diving suits,grenades and training costs.

MWAURA wrote:

MWAURA wrote:

MWAURA wrote:Moving onto your original question. The MEF will be our new Rapid Deployment Force;suitable for humanitarian assistance in flood hit N Mozambique to armoured warfare in Khartoum or fighting FFL in the CAR to destroy forces fighting the LAPSSET.

Look at the US marines Expeditionary Unit for an idea of the force structure needed.

Qty Nomenclature Element
4 to 6 AH-1W SuperCobra attack helicopters aviation
6 AV-8B Harrier jet aviation
12 CH-46E Sea Knight medium lift assault helicopter aviation
4 CH-53E Super Stallion heavy lift assault helicopter aviation
2 KC-130 Hercules re-fueler/transport aircraft
Note: usually maintained in the continental United States aviation
3 UH-1N Twin Huey utility helicopter aviation
6 155mm howitzer: M777 ground
15 Assault Amphibious Vehicle ground
8 BGM-71 Tube-Launched, Optically-Tracked, Wire-Guided (TOW) missile weapon system ground
8 FGM-148 Javelin anti-tank missile ground
7 to 16 Light Armored Vehicle ground
4 M1A1 main battle tank ground
8 M252 81mm mortar ground
3 D7 bulldozer logistics
1 LMT 3000 water purification unit logistics
1 Medium Tactical Vehicle Replacement dump truck logistics
4 Mk48 Logistics Vehicle System logistics
2 Reverse Osmosis Water Purification Unit logistics
4 Tractor, Rubber Tire, Articulated Steering logistics
2 TX51-19M Rough Terrain Forklift logistics
7 500 gallon water containers multiple
63 Humvee multiple
30 Medium Tactical Vehicle Replacement trucks multiple

This is the typically US equipment/tech/logistically heavy formation. This is the ToE of a MEU with 2500 guys led by a Colonel.
As I said we'll start with 500 guys with a  spare coy and a support platoon of cooks,clerks,logistics guys etc giving us a  battalion of around 700. All must be trained trigger pullers operating the SCAR 7.62 mm and Tanforce 10mm.

Using the MEU as our guide this is my ideal  Kenya MEF ToE.
5 Z-9s @       16 mn$ each                             80 mn $

3 Mi 26 Halos   15 mn$ each                             45 mn$

2 C 295s at        35 mn$ each                           70 mn$

10 Mi 17s at         18 mn $ each                         180 mn$

30 Otokar Cobras  300,000 $ each                         9 mn $

10 Rooikat 105 mm (fitted with APS) 350,000$ each  3.5 mn $

Actually that's 4mn$ each                                 40 mn $

8 caged Marauder MRAPs 0.5$ mn each                   4.0 mn$

4 Armata 152s at 11 mn$ each                              44 mn$
                                               
                                                  roughly            440 mn$  480 mn $

Let me pause here kiasi: THIS IS STILL INCOMPLETE

Haiyyyaaa! See what I told you guys?! 1.5 bn $ to create a navy isn't that much. I haven't finished the ToE,let alone ships! Btw,you do know we'll need barracks and proper support facilities for these birds maybe even a full KN Marine airbase?
For now,imo,we'll have to begin a JV for any further navy vessels after the 3 Saryus-at 300 mn$ and incomplete kitting out so far has KULAD HALF THE BUDGET!!

Btw,most not all figures from here:http://nationsdawnofanera.weebly.com/

An excellent resource!

Continued           3 pieces     BUK M2 @ 30 mn$ each               90$ mn

Mortars

                      6 pieces,  120mm   @40000 $ each                 240,000$
       
                     8 pieces     81 mm   @ 24,0000$ each              192,000$

                     10 pieces    60 mm   @ 10,000 $ each               100,000$

Artillery

              G7   6 pieces,105 MM @ 2.5 mn each                     15 mn $
     
              G6,  6 pieces, SP howitzer @ 7 mn $ each               42 mn $

              8 pieces,Superav Amphibious assault vehicles 3 mn$ each 24mn$

  Anti tank kornet 10 pieces at 88,000 $ each                         888,000 $


20 pieces RPG 32@ 3000 $ each                                              60,000$

           2 pieces,D7 Bulldozer @ 500,000 $ each                 1 mn$
 
          2 pieces,10 wheeled supply trucks @ 200,000 $           400,000$

          2 pieces,4x4 pickups @ 45,000$ each                        90,000$

         3 pieces Rough terrain forklift @ 30,000 $ each            90,000 $
   
          2 pieces,Reverse Osmosis Water Purification Unit @ 20,000 $ each 40,000$

         10 medium tactical trucks @ 250,000 $ each               2.5 mn $

         3 pieces armoured amphib dozer @ 2.5 mn$ each           7.5 mn $

         3 pieces M88 heavy armoured recovery vehicle @ 2.5 mn each 7.5 mn $

        8 pieces, handheld Lehmann Aviation LV580 UAVs @ 50,000 $ each 400,000$

       4 pieces,armed Hermes 450 drones @ 5 mn$ each                  20 mn$


That correction of the Rooikat price and the additional equipment puts an extra 286 mn$  hole in our budget.



Later we'll look at the nuts and bolts of the unit, ie the rifles,uniforms,diving suits,grenades and training costs.

Ideally we'd have 1200 7.62 mm SCAR rifles and 10 mm Tanfoglio sidearms. The power of either is unmatched! 9 millies on screen seem like elephant guns-bullshit. A 10 mm double tap has the power of a single 7.62x51 mm!

1200 pieces SCAR 7.62 mm @ 2500$ each                          3 mn$

1200 pieces Tanfoglio 10 mm @ 500$ each                     600,000 $

12 pieces,.5 inch Barret sniper rifles @ 12,000 @ each      144,000$

12 pieces, PSG1 7.62 sniper rifles @ 8000$ each                         96,000$

24 pieces,HK 21 LMGs @ 11,000$ each                              264,000 $

24 pieces GPMG 7.62 mm @ 7000$ each                            168,000$

1200 pieces,level 3 comprehensive flak vests 1200$ each    1.4 mn$

400 pieces ,tactical digital comms@ 750$ incl, PRRC            300,000 $

1200 pieces,army combat helmet @ 300$ each                   360,000$

8 pieces,military flamethrowers(usidharau hii kitu!!) 10,000 $ each  80,000$

level 3  mobile field hospitals 500 sq m each,3 pieces @ 50$ per sq m         75,000 $
plus equipment,facilities,beds,x rays,scans etc                              2 mn$


I hope you've seen by now you can't simply buy a Navy/MEF. Even the oil rich Arabs have seen the obvious cost implications and are building their own hulls.
http://www.adsb.ae/CorporateProfile/AboutAbuDhabiShipBuilding.aspx

Famous for the 90 m Baynunah OPV



My weekend has now begun. Will finish maybe Monday or Tuesday. We still have training costs,base building cost and shipyard establishment to mull over-1.5 bn$ can't buy you a serious navy like Abramovich buys soccer players!