Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

The Blue Tue Jul 29 2014, 20:22

Risasi wrote: staff that caught wazees eyes is the upgrading of the Y-12 surveillance to the isreali ETLA ELI SENSOR 3120 standardS , a compact multi mission platform as I previously posted. its already endowed with the MX-15 EO/IR covert ISR/SAR system its only a matter of additional software's and antennas .

I might be too biased when I point at reliability and safety record of the Y-12 and considering that when pressure comes, even the surveillance craft will be tasked with transport roles....Doesn't it make ore sense buying a brand new craft like the beech king air stripped of interiors and mount extra fuel tanks and a surveillance package and have it specifically for this role and probably more? The Y-12 can then be free to do what she was meant to do.

Risasi Wed Jul 30 2014, 06:28

The Blue wrote:
Risasi wrote: staff that caught wazees eyes is the upgrading of the Y-12 surveillance to the isreali ETLA ELI SENSOR 3120 standardS , a compact multi mission platform as I previously posted. its already endowed with the MX-15 EO/IR covert ISR/SAR system its only a matter of additional software's and antennas .

I might be too biased when I point at reliability and safety record of the Y-12 and considering that when pressure comes, even the surveillance craft will be tasked with transport roles....Doesn't it make ore sense buying a brand new craft like the beech king air stripped of interiors and mount extra fuel tanks and a surveillance package and have it specifically for this role and probably more? The Y-12 can then be free to do what she was meant to do.

which safety record ?? enlighten me on that one. Y12 @ +15 years with KDF-AF. support structure and logistic are entrenched as compared to a newer aircraft. its running cost is very conducive and a mule for such sortie.

The Blue Wed Jul 30 2014, 14:20

Risasi wrote:
The Blue wrote:
Risasi wrote: staff that caught wazees eyes is the upgrading of the Y-12 surveillance to the isreali ETLA ELI SENSOR 3120 standardS , a compact multi mission platform as I previously posted. its already endowed with the MX-15 EO/IR covert ISR/SAR system its only a matter of additional software's and antennas .

I might be too biased when I point at reliability and safety record of the Y-12 and considering that when pressure comes, even the surveillance craft will be tasked with transport roles....Doesn't it make ore sense buying a brand new craft like the beech king air stripped of interiors and mount extra fuel tanks and a surveillance package and have it specifically for this role and probably more? The Y-12 can then be free to do what she was meant to do.
which safety record ?? enlighten me on that one. Y12 @ +15 years with KDF-AF. support structure and logistic are entrenched as compared to a newer aircraft. its running cost is very conducive and a mule for such sortie.

We have already lost 2 of our total delivery. The crash on Mt. Marsabit can be attributed to bad weather, I am not sure what caused the one in El-wak.

You seem to be very happy with the Y-12, Our pieces have been here a while and we have suffered losses..Why not then replace them with new Y-12's and have one coming in specifically for surveillance?

jasiri Wed Jul 30 2014, 19:19

why would you have one coming in for surveilance when you can modify one? how o you justify that cost to a planning office that already has other priorities? @Risasi do we have a clamshell door mi 17?

Risasi Thu Jul 31 2014, 08:02

just to enlighten each other on Arms procurements. buying arms including aircrafts meant for military use its not like going to DT dobi and saying nataka Hii. Very Happy

. they is a reason why Commercial aircraft have a sister called the Military version, beside the rigidness and software endowed. when its sold as a military version its subjected to a different set of rules . in order to buy military arms , you have to obtain an Arms export license. the license cost as little as Very Happy

0.75 to 1.5 the cost of the units selling piece and is valid for single lot. therefore logically for you to get the most out of an arms export licenses you have to buy in bulk or at least 4-5 pieces in a single lot bonded to the license. for a few extra dollars you can ink in an additional paragraph for optional specified number of extra pieces with the same license but within X number of years after the date of purchases. example UG Su30 agreement include 2 addition piece. so incase of crashes or if they love the performance of the aircraft, 2 additional pieces can be purchased in hassle free.

an alternative way of circumnavigating such expenses is to go second hand and buy used arms. in such circumstance you will be buying items deemed as redundant or meant for disposal on AS IS BASIS from a sovereign state in addition to a minimal end user agreement fee to the manufacturer.

@blue Y12 been a work house since '97 with two crashes to date.
@jasiri clamshell?? nothing am aware of apart from the police.the ones I have encountered KDF were ramp doors.

Mkenya Thu Jul 31 2014, 14:02

On manenos of future KDF-AF fast air procurement,i think pointers are countries like Mexico who have many F-5s, just ordered 25 pieces of the Grob trainer what their future purchases are i think we fall in this category: Grippen SAAB,Su-30,Mig 35 or Rafales,F-16s etc. Or Jordanians who sold us F-5s went F-16s.
As we aim to dominate this region's airspace its management,reconnaissance to aerial coordination of our then 4.5 gen. fighters is integral,from our small drone outfits lets grow it to AWACS capabilties e.g Embraer R-99,armed drones,Cessna AC 208s etc.
Currently why cant we use our Tucanos (some already have camo) light attack turboprops in coordination with drones and mobile ground units to intercept cross border infiltrations by armed brigands (light arms and soft skin "technical" landcruisers) on our border with Somalia/Ethiopia and S.Sudan instead of just relegating them to training errands only.

MWAURA Sun Aug 03 2014, 15:46

How many Merk 4s are coming exactly? She's heavy almost 70 tons! Can the landtrain tank transporter handle that? What about the assorted recovery vehicles or are new ones part of the package?

RISASI wrote:n a separate note: Intel puts it that RAO was assured of a full support by Uncle Sam, Covert operatives ,funds etc if he could mount an internal uprising the Egyptian way but first had to prove himself and his financers that he had the tyranny of numbers for such happenings, litmus test ;7-7 drum up support on a temporary paralysis of KE economy. it came and went without dire national consequences and I think his sponsors are now rethinking.

Jana,I heard there's CCTV footage of the local ODM guy and the Mpeketoni attackers looting shops! He was arrested that very morning and is still in. Normal human people make a mistake-we assume everyone is like us and therefore even suspecting outwardly human looking people of such atrocities is impossible. Like accusing the local kiosk operator of being a secret vampire!
People can be evil! Also some people are evil! That simple lesson is difficult for many of us.
Risasi,tell us about this talk of Ivan's birds: can we expect smth sexy in our skies soon?

Risasi Sun Aug 03 2014, 20:09

MWAURA wrote:How many Merk 4s are coming exactly? She's heavy almost 70 tons! Can the landtrain tank transporter handle that? What about the assorted recovery vehicles or are new ones part of the package?

RISASI wrote:n a separate note: Intel puts it that RAO was assured of a full support by Uncle Sam, Covert operatives ,funds etc if he could mount an internal uprising the Egyptian way but first had to prove himself and his financers that he had the tyranny of numbers for such happenings, litmus test ;7-7 drum up support on a temporary paralysis of KE economy. it came and went without dire national consequences and I think his sponsors are now rethinking.

Jana,I heard there's CCTV footage of the local ODM guy and the Mpeketoni attackers looting shops! He was arrested that very morning and is still in. Normal human people make a mistake-we assume everyone is like us and therefore even suspecting outwardly human looking people of such atrocities is impossible. Like accusing the local kiosk operator of being a secret vampire!
People can be evil! Also some people are evil! That simple lesson is difficult for many of us.
Risasi,tell us about this talk of Ivan's birds: can we expect smth sexy in our skies soon?

nothing concrete the blog was in a speculation mood if something would fly from Ivan what can it be? nothing much just speculations tuu.

africaken Thu Aug 07 2014, 15:25

Risasi wrote:
The Blue wrote:
Risasi wrote: staff that caught wazees eyes is the upgrading of the Y-12 surveillance to the isreali ETLA ELI SENSOR 3120 standardS , a compact multi mission platform as I previously posted. its already endowed with the MX-15 EO/IR covert ISR/SAR system its only a matter of additional software's and antennas .

I might be too biased when I point at reliability and safety record of the Y-12 and considering that when pressure comes, even the surveillance craft will be tasked with transport roles....Doesn't it make ore sense buying a brand new craft like the beech king air stripped of interiors and mount extra fuel tanks and a surveillance package and have it specifically for this role and probably more? The Y-12 can then be free to do what she was meant to do.
which safety record ?? enlighten me on that one. Y12 @ +15 years with KDF-AF. support structure and logistic are entrenched as compared to a newer aircraft. its running cost is very conducive and a mule

i dont want to blame the plane but you have had another incident with the y-12 ,could it be an issue with maintenance considering those engine are pratt Whitney canada engines

Guest Fri Aug 08 2014, 09:42

africaken wrote:
Risasi wrote:
The Blue wrote:
Risasi wrote: staff that caught wazees eyes is the upgrading of the Y-12 surveillance to the isreali ETLA ELI SENSOR 3120 standardS , a compact multi mission platform as I previously posted. its already endowed with the MX-15 EO/IR covert ISR/SAR system its only a matter of additional software's and antennas .

I might be too biased when I point at reliability and safety record of the Y-12 and considering that when pressure comes, even the surveillance craft will be tasked with transport roles....Doesn't it make ore sense buying a brand new craft like the beech king air stripped of interiors and mount extra fuel tanks and a surveillance package and have it specifically for this role and probably more? The Y-12 can then be free to do what she was meant to do.
which safety record ?? enlighten me on that one. Y12 @ +15 years with KDF-AF. support structure and logistic are entrenched as compared to a newer aircraft. its running cost is very conducive and a mule
i dont want to blame the plane but you have had another incident with the y-12 ,could it be an issue with maintenance considering those engine are pratt Whitney canada engines

A UAV would be a much better solution that the Y12, because it would offer a longer loiter time, cheaper over the long run, like others have said above it is an old plane, .....

Olekoima Fri Aug 08 2014, 13:00

MWAURA wrote:How many Merk 4s are coming exactly? She's heavy almost 70 tons! Can the landtrain tank transporter handle that? What about the assorted recovery vehicles or are new ones part of the package?

Have they already for the Merk 4s? Is this a confirmed deal? What about the birds? Is the F-15 still in the cards? This is doubtful. If so what are the other options available?

jasiri Sun Aug 10 2014, 16:26

deconstructor wrote:
africaken wrote:
Risasi wrote:
The Blue wrote:
Risasi wrote: staff that caught wazees eyes is the upgrading of the Y-12 surveillance to the isreali ETLA ELI SENSOR 3120 standardS , a compact multi mission platform as I previously posted. its already endowed with the MX-15 EO/IR covert ISR/SAR system its only a matter of additional software's and antennas .

I might be too biased when I point at reliability and safety record of the Y-12 and considering that when pressure comes, even the surveillance craft will be tasked with transport roles....Doesn't it make ore sense buying a brand new craft like the beech king air stripped of interiors and mount extra fuel tanks and a surveillance package and have it specifically for this role and probably more? The Y-12 can then be free to do what she was meant to do.
which safety record ?? enlighten me on that one. Y12 @ +15 years with KDF-AF. support structure and logistic are entrenched as compared to a newer aircraft. its running cost is very conducive and a mule
i dont want to blame the plane but you have had another incident with the y-12 ,could it be an issue with maintenance considering those engine are pratt Whitney canada engines

A UAV would be a much better solution that the Y12, because it would offer a longer loiter time, cheaper over the long run, like others have said above it is an old plane, .....

A lot has been written here but nothing substantive to discredit the Yankee 12 from this role has been written/offered. Drones too crash. Last year a drone crashed in Somalia and further back an American surveillance drone was hacked into and tricked into landing in Iran. Understand this, a bigger aircraft means a heavier payload and so a better equipped platform. This is because weight restrictions applied to drones means less capable systems as the surveillance packages have to be built with weight limits. The Y-12 is an aircraft that i would trust any day of the year. The places this aircraft lands in is just unbelievable.

jasiri Sun Aug 10 2014, 16:32

and by the way, Pratt and Whitney make some of the most reliable aircraft engines anywhere. Even the King Air you front uses PT6 engines.

The Blue Sun Aug 10 2014, 22:45

jasiri wrote:and by the way, Pratt and Whitney make some of the most reliable aircraft engines anywhere. Even the King Air you front uses PT6 engines.

I am not a hatter of the Y-12, I understand it has been a lovely lady of transport corps. I suggested a new platform for mounting surveillance equipment so that the Y-12 can continue in the original role envisioned..then Bullet man gave me elimu ya bure...I am better educated now.

mambotupu Tue Aug 12 2014, 09:37

deconstructor wrote:
A UAV would be a much better solution that the Y12, because it would offer a longer loiter time, cheaper over the long run, like others have said above it is an old plane, .....

Kenya is set to receive “eight hand-launched Raven drones” from the United States of America as part of a new military package aimed at wiping out the Al-Shabaab militia group in Somalia. The military support comes weeks after the U.S. President; Barrack Obama gave remarks applauding the attempts Kenya has made to ensure that the nation and the entire region at large attain peace by fighting terrorism groups said to cause havoc and devastating economic stability.
http://www.newstimeafrica.com/archives/27097

Guest Tue Aug 12 2014, 23:46

mambotupu wrote:
deconstructor wrote:
A UAV would be a much better solution that the Y12, because it would offer a longer loiter time, cheaper over the long run, like others have said above it is an old plane, .....
Kenya is set to receive “eight hand-launched Raven drones” from the United States of America as part of a new military package aimed at wiping out the Al-Shabaab militia group in Somalia. The military support comes weeks after the U.S. President; Barrack Obama gave remarks applauding the attempts Kenya has made to ensure that the nation and the entire region at large attain peace by fighting terrorism groups said to cause havoc and devastating economic stability.
http://www.newstimeafrica.com/archives/27097

Mambotupu the Raven is a good addition for KDF, but I was thinking of something than can have the same kind of endurance as the Y12. It would be good if there was more disclosure by KDF on what is in their inventory

Risasi Wed Aug 13 2014, 00:45

The Blue wrote:
jasiri wrote:and by the way, Pratt and Whitney make some of the most reliable aircraft engines anywhere. Even the King Air you front uses PT6 engines.
I am not a hatter of the Y-12, I understand it has been a lovely lady of transport corps. I suggested a new platform for mounting surveillance equipment so that the Y-12 can continue in the original role envisioned..then Bullet man gave me elimu ya bure...I am better educated now.

elimu dunia eeeehh ok give me time

Risasi Wed Aug 13 2014, 00:48

by th way wapi bloggers like A.K.A mwaura Very Happy

Risasi Wed Aug 13 2014, 01:52

I would say apart from the rotating EO/IR turret , the two are and have very different applications
watch the bellow clips kama bado then we will discus more.

UAV Surveillance platform
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_Ggx20XS0g

Compact Multimission Isr Aircraft ETLA ELI SENSOR 3120
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAFowdcT8V8

Guest Wed Aug 13 2014, 04:55

Risasi wrote:I would say apart from the rotating EO/IR turret , the two are and have very different applications
watch the bellow clips kama bado then we will discus more.

UAV Surveillance platform
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_Ggx20XS0g

Compact Multimission Isr Aircraft ETLA ELI SENSOR 3120
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAFowdcT8V8

Bwana Risasi, sorry to bring this up again, but aren't both platforms used for ISR? With some of the UAVs having the advantage of being able to carryout strikes?

MWAURA Wed Aug 13 2014, 09:45

Risasi wrote:by th way wapi bloggers like A.K.A mwaura

Still around,checking in every other day! Still waiting for detail from Jasiri or anyone else about the Merk 4s. IMO,its one of the most important deals since independence. Really!

Risasi Wed Aug 13 2014, 11:10

deconstructor wrote:
Risasi wrote:I would say apart from the rotating EO/IR turret , the two are and have very different applications
watch the bellow clips kama bado then we will discus more.

UAV Surveillance platform
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_Ggx20XS0g

Compact Multimission Isr Aircraft ETLA ELI SENSOR 3120
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAFowdcT8V8

Bwana Risasi, sorry to bring this up again, but aren't both platforms used for ISR? With some of the UAVs having the advantage of being able to carryout strikes?

hahaha hapa kuna mjadala then why wouldn,t one be phased out in respect to the other???or even more substitute all of them by adding a targeting and surveillance pod with similar function to the F-5E that. here is a good example of a target pod http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Targeting_pods the EL/M 20600 http://www.iai.co.il/sip_storage/FILES/6/36836.pdf that can perform such function
just google out more ,if still unconvinced we will start a discussion.

new boss ..time consuming activities ... will get back

on a side note the romance starts again once more.
Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) - Page 10 -fight10

Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) - Page 10 -fight10

Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) - Page 10 Theoff10

Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) - Page 10 Theopy10

Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) - Page 10 -toget10

africaken Wed Aug 13 2014, 15:21

Risasi wrote:I would say apart from the rotating EO/IR turret , the two are and have very different applications
watch the bellow clips kama bado then we will discus more.

UAV Surveillance platform
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_Ggx20XS0g

Compact Multimission Isr Aircraft ETLA ELI SENSOR 3120
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAFowdcT8V8

they have the same application the only difference is some UAV like RQ-4,RQ-9,RQ-1 have better endurance because they are unmanned and satellite guided,the only advantage manned ISR have over UAV's its range
even the british thales watchkeeper which is limited by line of sight carries EO/IR sensors(CoMPASS (compact multi-purpose advanced stabilised system) sensors can include: third-generation, 3-5 micron focal plane array FLIR, 8-12 micron FLIR, colour TV camera with zoom, eyesafe laser rangefinder, diode-pumped laser designator, laser target illuminator and autotracker.) and SAR radar (I-Master SAR/GMTI radar)

each platform has its own pros and cons ,below is a link to the british thales watchkeeper uas

https://www.thalesgroup.com/sites/default/files/asset/document/3862_tha_watchkeeper_brochure_2013_.pdf

http://defense-update.com/directory/compass.htm

https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/united-kingdom/defence/i-master

http://www.elbitsystems.com/elbitmain/systems-in.asp?num=29

africaken Wed Aug 13 2014, 16:51

when nigeria school girls were kidnapped america sent a MC-12 liberty ( King Air 350)
to nigeria

mambotupu Wed Aug 13 2014, 17:26

Risasi wrote:

jasiri Wed Aug 13 2014, 17:46

mambotupu wrote:
deconstructor wrote:
A UAV would be a much better solution that the Y12, because it would offer a longer loiter time, cheaper over the long run, like others have said above it is an old plane, .....
Kenya is set to receive “eight hand-launched Raven drones” from the United States of America as part of a new military package aimed at wiping out the Al-Shabaab militia group in Somalia. The military support comes weeks after the U.S. President; Barrack Obama gave remarks applauding the attempts Kenya has made to ensure that the nation and the entire region at large attain peace by fighting terrorism groups said to cause havoc and devastating economic stability.
http://www.newstimeafrica.com/archives/27097

This is old news, it was during OLN kick off dates.

jasiri Wed Aug 13 2014, 17:50

africaken wrote:when nigeria school girls were kidnapped america sent a MC-12 liberty ( King Air 350)
to nigeria

King Air or Cessna Caravan, the vehicle isnt important. The payload is all that matters...
Im begining to think some of you just repost manufacturer info without understanding how the product works. How for example does a manned aircraft beat a drone on range? ever hard of the IAI Eitan or Globalhawk??

@Risasi, Searcher mk3 eh? Very Happy

btw the clamshell Mil was a UN bird, my bad.

jasiri Wed Aug 13 2014, 17:55

MWAURA wrote:
Risasi wrote:by th way wapi bloggers like A.K.A mwaura

Still around,checking in every other day! Still waiting for detail from Jasiri or anyone else about the Merk 4s. IMO,its one of the most important deals since independence. Really!

This one is pretty sealed, im not in a position to confirm anything sa hizi..

africaken Wed Aug 13 2014, 19:53

jasiri wrote:
africaken wrote:when nigeria school girls were kidnapped america sent a MC-12 liberty ( King Air 350)
to nigeria

King Air or Cessna Caravan, the vehicle isnt important. The payload is all that matters...
Im begining to think some of you just repost manufacturer info without understanding how the product works. How for example does a manned aircraft beat a drone on range? ever hard of the IAI Eitan or Globalhawk??

@Risasi, Searcher mk3 eh? btw the clamshell Mil was a UN bird, my bad.

global hawk is a strategic ISR and here we are talking about tactical ISR platform,very few UAS/UAV in the market have beyond line of sight capability e.t.c hermes 450,IAI searcher and if think there are no manned ISR platform that can challenge globalhawk 14,000 km u-2 spy plane is only beaten by 4,000

Risasi Thu Aug 14 2014, 07:44

mambotupu wrote:
Risasi wrote:

@mambo
the dinner was made fit for an Africa chief

at the Pentagon

Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) - Page 10 Bbdfhj10

with a direct counterpart Gen.Martin E. Dempsey http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Dempsey

Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) - Page 10 Hdhfdh10

Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) - Page 10 Hsdgwy10

as well as else where too.
Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) - Page 10 X_vnfj10

Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) - Page 10 Trtrgg10

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