Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Risasi Wed Dec 12 2012, 07:55

Sierra Kilo wrote:
ole Nkarei wrote:Unless one is a 'Continental Power' or has pretensions for that sort of Military Reach and Projection, a Turbo-prop large Transporter is the thing. If we project ourselves eight-ten years into the future, and envisage the theoretic extent of our Force Projection in this region, such will have determinant on bilateral concordance and therefore obviate the difficulties arising from 'reach' between Staging areas and Theatres of Ops- so, dispersed rear-base 'local' facilities over the region that allows for, say, land-refuels as opposed to air-tankers, land force-assembly and refitting / resupply areas, etc.

Strategic Airlift capacity is glaringly missing for the KDF-AF it is the only force in the region without an aircraft of the class of An-12, C-130 or Y-8 transporters. During the start of OLN it was the french military that assisted in transporting strategic equipment from MAB or LAB to wajir. This is one thing that needs to be addressed ASAP as it means that the KDF cannot deploy speedily within or out of the country for both men and equipment. The 1960s DHC-5s have served well but its time to retire them. If a tiny country like Qatar can operate a C-17 Globemaster what does that say for KE.

Qatar is immersed in Hydrocarbons..lets cut our drapes as per our size please. We are not inclining for a continental power, in fact you guys should be proud with the established and professional AF. ran from USD income from coffee berries, tea leafs and tourism

HokumA wrote:
areba wrote:

How about this for our "transport" needs?

That looks like the C-130 Hercules but at about $62 million (Old price) USD we are better of getting a cheaper transport solution for example the Embraer KC-390 (Jet engine not withstanding) or the Y8F400 however I don't like the Y8F400 because it is primarily a cargo transporter but we need a bird which can fit into different configurations e.g. transport, Air refueling, AEW&C, ambulance etc the KC-390 family is the bird best suited for this role and we can get them cheap plus Embraer is already planning to setup shop in Kenya to service KQ and other civilian customers in the neighborhood.

Ndugu zanguni just get it straight and allow me to expound more, in air transport they are two sectors

1. off the continent transports

2. in theatre transports

so far i don,t see any handicaps in intheatre transports

we not planning any Off the continent sorties in the near future why should we buy such stuff. Plus if we intend to for whatever reasons we can always charter from the Easter Bloc countries.and lastly if we are getting any large Inter-AFB carrier it will be the prop way. hata the Europeans have move that way in there new venture the A400.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ask6VkkFaes

Risasi Wed Dec 12 2012, 08:02

mekatilili wrote:

salalaaaa Mr Triple i (mekatilili) .....my palm on my head unetowa wapi hi picha affraid

Guest Wed Dec 12 2012, 08:07

Risasi wrote:
mekatilili wrote:

salalaaaa Mr Triple i (mekatilili) .....my palm on my head unetowa wapi hi picha

Sly fella, the Mr. Triple. Should be running our Black Ops in Somalia!! Very Happy

How are you keeping, Bullet-man? Theatre is cold for you Fly-boys! Kitu busy for the fellas in camo t-shirts, beards and webbing though! Stay safe.

Risasi Wed Dec 12 2012, 08:40

ole Nkarei wrote:
Risasi wrote:
mekatilili wrote:

salalaaaa Mr Triple i (mekatilili) .....my palm on my head unetowa wapi hi picha

Sly fella, the Mr. Triple. Should be running our Black Ops in Somalia!!

How are you keeping, Bullet-man? Theatre is cold for you Fly-boys! Kitu busy for the fellas in camo t-shirts, beards and webbing though! Stay safe.

thanks bro am very fine squadrons are back to training and training and keep on training.. Very Happy

wacha Tigers ziruke leo due to public demand..hahahah and also respect to the outgoing Commander in chief.

plus kudos man, you and Spartan are filling us plenty in terms of geo-politics on the Nord-kivu maneno i always peep in to catch-up with the sermon of the day...

Their several guys i keep on my radar in positive way that is a 1. Mr HokumA might be the new technician kids for the Mi at your home tuff 50 i say and now this Mr triple I. defiantly a fliers close friend..

I intended to post this part in the regional page;

@blogger just as a reminder; S.A is one of the biggest land weapon suppliers to UPDF...now that they might lock horns in proxy how will this turn out to be? its clear that M23 was a badly kept secret for the UPDF and Rwanda sympathises had .mmmh they is no free lunch gentlemen it seems S.A is using the Kivu maneno to bolt in Drc in SADC. I am waiting to see what they will deploy and in what magnitudes i hear its really hot in that region.. it will kinda give us the idea what they are anticipating and what extra mile they are willing to spend on DRC.

Guest Wed Dec 12 2012, 09:38

Risasi wrote:
plus kudos man, you and Spartan are filling us plenty in terms of geo-politics on the Nord-kivu maneno i always peep in to catch-up with the sermon of the day...

@Bullet-man - you know how it is running multiple tightly compacted /segregated five-men teams of 'bad' fellas in/out of Theatre, with other support-facets; once they jump off, you sit steaming, praying for clockwork execution of the ops ; you go over at the planning again and again from all directions, run up posssible shyte scenarios and work them, you talk to Angle Michael, you wait / listening in for Exfils of each 'stick' to be called, and fiddle with your gizmos, wait for debriefs. You working under the drapes, so any MIA is not GENEVA-Convention compliant!! Time in abundance to read up on other areas of interests such as the developing regional threat in Eastern DRC - I reckon a precipice is more like what we all are standing on. SADC should be in GOMA today, I think!

This Eastern DRC is shaping up badly. #Spartan's Old Man spoke uncharacteristically harshly of Westerners bambling and ill-motivated Interference in African Conflicts yesterday in Moscow. He then invited Ruskies to take a proactive hand in matters in Kenyana, very much like the Cold-War divide, and I am certain that was a view probably shared with a few of the EAC-expanded Heads of States prior to M7 speaking them to Putin. More than a Armament Procurement trip, as i see it.

Sierra Kilo Wed Dec 12 2012, 10:05

mekatilili wrote:

Good Shot @Mekatilili wa Menza, Looks like Americans staging a sortie from the Mombasa FOB, most likely during their doomed mission in Somalia in the early nineties.

countersniper Wed Dec 12 2012, 10:13

mekatilili wrote:

i can count at least six tigers and five hawks one puma parked in a line and what looks like a C5 galaxy transport with German colors being attended to by refueling trucks.
there is also a C 130 with American insignia on tarmac...when was this picture taken...?

countersniper Wed Dec 12 2012, 10:42

KDF leads Kenya CELEBRATIONS at 49 years of Independence link live ...

http://www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/-/1064/1642270/-/ah70v6/-/index.html

Spartan Wed Dec 12 2012, 10:48

Risasi wrote:@blogger just as a reminder; S.A is one of the biggest land weapon suppliers to UPDF...now that they might lock horns in proxy how will this turn out to be? its clear that M23 was a badly kept secret for the UPDF and Rwanda sympathises had .mmmh they is no free lunch gentlemen it seems S.A is using the Kivu maneno to bolt in Drc in SADC. I am waiting to see what they will deploy and in what magnitudes i hear its really hot in that region.. it will kinda give us the idea what they are anticipating and what extra mile they are willing to spend on DRC.

There's no possibility of Ug squaring up against any of the forces coming to Kivu. But should things come to that - proxy (through M23) or open hostilities, a force of 20,000, let alone 4,000 stands no chance against Rwanda alone. Remember this is their backyard (and ours too), everybody else will be operating 500-plus miles from their comfort zone.

A 4,000-strong force in an area as large as East DRC, the best chance it has is to play honest broker of the peace, it can't take on all the rebel groups by any stretch of imagination. For the good of the DRC, Rwanda, Uganda and all the hapless souls in the region, the force shouldn't roll into the DRC with sky-high expectations.

@ countersniper, the picture was taken on August 11 1994 when Moi Airforce Base was being used for relief efforts for the crisis in Rwanda that produced the current crisis.

countersniper Wed Dec 12 2012, 10:57

actually that is part or section of moi international airport Mombasa....and not moi air base. part of it is a forward operating base for the Kenya air force. remember we have a moi AIR BASE AT eastleigh nairobi.

Sierra Kilo Wed Dec 12 2012, 22:05

Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) - Page 11 Webhea10

Happy Independence day!!! sunny

Uzi Thu Dec 13 2012, 06:39

http://www.nation.co.ke/News/Police-freed-terror-suspects/-/1056/1642740/-/143w284z/-/index.html

"41 of the suspects were later released by the officer at the Shauri Moyo police station under mysterious circumstances.A senior GSU officer got the information that they had been released and inquired. Senior officers visited the station and while there, one of the suspects who had been released visited the station to collect some items he had left behind. He was re-arrested and upon interrogation, revealed that they had been told to give out money for them to be released.

This is really pissed me off. How long shall we complain about some of this officers of the law? If terror suspects suspected of attacking a member of parliament can be released no wonder thugs and robbers do so with impunity.

Guest Thu Dec 13 2012, 08:16

I reckon this is a legitimate Military concern because it juxtaposes the military-in-Soomaliya to the External facet of Terrorism and the Internal Insecurity concerns that derive from it. Lemme have a bite althought @Countersniper is more competent than I am to dig into your question, #Uzi.

Once any suspect is taken to a Police station and there is justifiable cause for further investigation, you are logged in officially, and henceforth, you in the custody of the ''Process'' - neither a Station Commander, nor indeed the Police Commissioner can release you without consultations down or below his rank, and the justification for released entered officially in the Log against your name-entry.

We have a Counter-Terrorism Fusion Centre that brings in all Government Security Players - Military and Civilian, and which has Oversight over ALL Terrorism concerns, internally, no matter how insignificant or innocous. It has the primacy of Advisory to the Executive at the highest Levels. If you are a station commander, you do not want to lack answers this Agency would ask you on a matter such as this one.

In most cases where released of suspects is allegedly effected upon the exchange of bribe, the Internal Structures have already determined there is insufficient reasons to hold you further, and a corrupt station commander may solicit a bribe even as he releases you. Not to mean that I approve anybody bribing anybody!

In the case of Terrorist Jermaine released from Custody in an obscure Police Post in Wajir, the obscurity of the Post was the determinant. What the Police did after the latest Eastleigh Attack was a 'Trawler-ops'' where they collected anybody that fitted a stereo-type, to process them later in a controlled environment - a majority of those arrested would have had little reasons for their continuation in custody.

@C.Sniper?

Uzi wrote:http://www.nation.co.ke/News/Police-freed-terror-suspects/-/1056/1642740/-/143w284z/-/index.html

"41 of the suspects were later released by the officer at the Shauri Moyo police station under mysterious circumstances.A senior GSU officer got the information that they had been released and inquired. Senior officers visited the station and while there, one of the suspects who had been released visited the station to collect some items he had left behind. He was re-arrested and upon interrogation, revealed that they had been told to give out money for them to be released.

This is really pissed me off. How long shall we complain about some of this officers of the law? If terror suspects suspected of attacking a member of parliament can be released no wonder thugs and robbers do so with impunity.

Guest Thu Dec 13 2012, 09:17

Spartan wrote:
There's no possibility of Ug squaring up against any of the forces coming to Kivu. But should things come to that - proxy (through M23) or open hostilities, a force of 20,000, let alone 4,000 stands no chance against Rwanda alone. Remember this is their backyard (and ours too), everybody else will be operating 500-plus miles from their comfort zone.

A 4,000-strong force in an area as large as East DRC, the best chance it has is to play honest broker of the peace, it can't take on all the rebel groups by any stretch of imagination. For the good of the DRC, Rwanda, Uganda and all the hapless souls in the region, the force shouldn't roll into the DRC with sky-high expectations.

I have already made my opinion evident about RDF as a fighting force, and I could be more specific.

Distance from ''Comfort Zoones"? Tanzania, Zambia and Angola share a border with the DRC and will be the staging ground for SADC's entry into the DRC - how far is GOMA? Assembling the SADC Force in proximity to the contested areas around Goma cannot be a logistic nightmare, in this 21st Century - larges-scale Foot Marches remain archaic romanticised military deployment notions.

Size of the SADC Force? I doubt that the Objective of SADC will be to take-and-hold Real-Estate, but to dismember & reffectively diminish / destroy if possible, the fighting ability of the negative forces in Eastern Kivu, very much like we have done in Southern Soomaliya - with a force of similar size!!

If SADC determines to prosecute fully its 'Mandate', not as ''honest broker'' (sahau hiyo!!)but as a brother-defender of an aggrieved brother-nation in accordance with the Mutual Defense Treaty that has operationalised this moribund Standby-Force of the SADC, then Rwanda's pillage of Eastern DRC is over. Unless the Tall Man imagines he can entrench this by force of Arms - he will not, take it from me.

Btw - the SADC Mandate is clearly parallel to the AU-ICGLR Mandate - SADC did not offer to join the Neutral International Force, but have crafted an initiative that has specific objectives in line with their Treaties as a Regional Group. There is some confluence - entrenching DRC-Government control over Eastern DRC, but that is entirely viewed in different terms by Rwanda and Uganda.

Uganda must find mutually beneficial accomodation with the DRC on the points of her Security Concerns, and settle the matter of the Albertine Wells amicably - these endless shenanigans in Eastern DRC must end. Shared Security - lets move on.

Guest Thu Dec 13 2012, 10:22

The Ole Man is playing some hard tackles with the new Soomaliya President - a second attempt yesterday to visit Nairobi hold talks with the Ole Man were stopped at Mogadishu Airport just before he enplaned for Nairobi!

Of course, the Agenda for his visit is evident. And the formation of Jubbaland being this far gone! Not even an earlier visit to Ethiopia and Djibouti has altered the intentions of IGAD.

mogen Thu Dec 13 2012, 11:55

ole Nkarei wrote:I reckon this is a legitimate Military concern because it juxtaposes the military-in-Soomaliya to the External facet of Terrorism and the Internal Insecurity concerns that derive from it. Lemme have a bite althought @Countersniper is more competent than I am to dig into your question, #Uzi.

Lt. Col. Ronald Reid Daly
Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) - Page 11 Ronal_11

Selous Scouts last full parade
Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) - Page 11 Last_f10

In 1980 with the end of Rhodesia also came the end of the Selous Scouts. Most African members of the Selous Scouts joined the Zimbabwe army and made up the newly constituted PARAS unit. Many Scouts [both mzungu and African fearing for their life headed for South Africa. However, true to Mugabe's words there was no major reprisals against the remaining former members of the Selous Scouts.

The Scouts who went to South Africa joined the South African Special Forces (SASF); the RECCEs. The Selous Scouts brought their Regimental standard with them from Rhodesia, and continued to utilize it to represent their new home, as well as other items like a famous church door from their former barracks and a painting of F. C. Selous.

By order of the South African Minister of Defence, 3 Reconnaissance Commando was established but not activated on the 1st of May 1976. In April 1980, 3 RECCEs was activated with the arrival of over 120 Selous Scouts in South Africa from Rhodesia. This unit was only activated with the arrival of the Scouts. The Selous Scouts were formally given recognition when their emblems [Pamwe Chete and the Oprey] were incorporated into 5 RECCEs Regimental unit badge in recognition of the connection between themselves and the Selous Scouts. The badge was authorized February 13th 1982.

Selous Scouts badge
Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) - Page 11 Selous10

South African Special Forces badge
Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) - Page 11 South_10

The Selous Scouts numbering 1000-1500 members and comprising of mzungus and Africans were a highly successful outfit. Reportedly only 1 defected and they killed more "terrorists" than the Rhodesian Army. When their commander resigned and left for South Africa the outfit disbanded and some of the members followed him.

1. what was the secret of their success?
2. are there lessons Kenyan COIN operations can learn from that short-lived outfit?
3. would that approach be our answer to the al shabaab menace that is now firmly on our soil?

[quote="Uzi"]http://www.nation.co.ke/News/Police-freed-terror-suspects/-/1056/1642740/-/143w284z/-/index.html

countersniper Thu Dec 13 2012, 13:29

Uzi wrote:http://www.nation.co.ke/News/Police-freed-terror-suspects/-/1056/1642740/-/143w284z/-/index.html

"41 of the suspects were later released by the officer at the Shauri Moyo police station under mysterious circumstances.A senior GSU officer got the information that they had been released and inquired. Senior officers visited the station and while there, one of the suspects who had been released visited the station to collect some items he had left behind. He was re-arrested and upon interrogation, revealed that they had been told to give out money for them to be released.

This is really pissed me off. How long shall we complain about some of this officers of the law? If terror suspects suspected of attacking a member of parliament can be released no wonder thugs and robbers do so with impunity.

FROM normal practices and SOPS the officer comanding police station 0CS is the only one empowered to release a suspect from police custody once one has been booked into a cell of a station he commands.
This partly is the reason an arresting cop who wants to be crooked will en-devour to let a suspect go after he gets some chai or mandazi from the suspect long before they reach the police station because they know that once the suspect is booked in... the chances of release from custody without official permission by OCS are ZERO.

Even if your uncle is the COMPOL(commissioner of police) and you are arrested for a crime..and put in a cell the compol cannot just order your freedom, but must ask the OCS to facilitate this,and the OCS may oblige out of respect but he can decline and insist that he needs to present you to a court of law for a particular crime charged..and once this happens ..the matter is in the hands of the judicial process.

Now the ball game changes if another police agency like the CID,the anti terror police, the AP, GSU,customs and immigration,etc because most of these do not operate separate cells where they can keep their arrested suspects..and so they will use spaces in police stations anywhere they want to keep their suspects. ..and so in actual sense,remember a police station or a court of law are the only places gazetted by law where you can keep someone in custody lawfully before the judicial process takes over.

So if an officer from any of these other law and order agencies books you into a cell ...it is only that officer dealing with that case who can deal with you in theory although the OCS can exercise oversight responsibility...even though he has allowed you to rent a space..he will not arbitrarily release that suspect without cooperating with the arresting officer..or argency first....any other officer interested in the suspects will be required to liaise with the OCS where the suspects are held...bottom line OCS is king...in all such circumstances.

This is the dark reason why police stations are always busy places and cells are full because in some cases the OCS and his crew may be operating( not proven?) a clandestine extortion syndicate where they Cary out mass arrests and lock people up in the hope and casual extraction of bribes from friends and relatives of the suspects...especially on weekends.
NOW the shauri moyo incident is a classic example of clash of interests.

The GSU carry out a general sweep..arrest a huge number of suspects and scatter them into custody all over the police division...therefore once these suspects were in... ONLY the OCS and the arresting persons can deal with them.. SO 41 of these were let go by some one else other than the people who arrested them without the OCS involvement?this is very suspect by all accounts.

Guest Fri Dec 14 2012, 16:25

It is a very lengthy Report but here is the extract that deals exclusively with allegations / findings about Rwanda and Uganda complicity in the M23 and the mess in Eastern DRC. It is almost incontrovertible.

Make you your mind wewe mwenyewe what to believe after reading through - anybody needing clarifications or additional info please post your need, lets chat!

SECURITY COUNClL COMMITTEE ESTABLISHED PURSUANT TO RESOLUTION 1533 (2004) CONCERNING THE DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF THE CONGO

SfAC.43120 12fCOMM.64

27 November 2012

Letter dated 26 November 2012 from the Coordinator of the Group of Experts on the DRC addressed to the Chairman

REFERENCE: S/AC.43/2012/GE/OC.63
26 November 2012

Excellency,

I have the honour to write to you in my capacity as Coordinator of the Group of Experts on the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), which was extended pursuant to Security Council resolution 2021 (2011) of 29 November 2011. While the Group concluded its field investigations in early October 2012, it has continued to communicate with many of its sources throughout the ongoing escalation of the crisis in the Great Lakes region. As such, in light of the Secretary General's report requested by the Security Council pursuant to paragraph 5 of resolution 2076 (2012), adopted unanimously on 20 November 2012, the Group wishes to provide, in the attached document, additional information it has initially gathered regarding external support to M23's recent offensive and seizure of the North Kivu provincial capital of Goma.

Please accept, Excellency, the assurances of my highest consideration.

Steve Hege
Coordinator - Group of Experts on the DRC extended pursuant to Security Council resolution 2021 (2011)

His Excellency
Mr. Agshin Mehdiyev
Chairman - Security Council Committee established pursuant to resolution 1533 (2004) concerning the Democratic Republic of the Congo

External Support to M23 during the Recent M23 Offensive on Goma

Throughout its current mandate, the Group has repeatedly concluded that the Government of Rwanda (GoR), with the support of allies within the Government of Uganda, has created, equipped, trained, advised, reinforced and directly commanded the M23 rebellion. The information initially gathered by the Group regarding the recent offensive and seizure of the North Kivu Provincial town of Goma strongly upholds this conclusion.

Preparations for the offensive on Goma took place over the last two months. During its presentation to the Committee on 12 November 2012, the Group expressed its concern regarding a recent notable increase in foreign troop presence and deliveries of military equipment, including boots and military uniforms, which appeared to demonstrate the rebels' intent to conduct largescale operations in the near future.

After M23 members, Ugandan intelligence officers, and Uganda-based businessmen told the Group that the rebels had obtained significant logistics supplies in Uganda, members of the Group personally witnessed a delivery of hundreds of rain boots to the rebels to the DRC - Uganda
border town of Bunagana on 14 October 2012 (see annex 1). Former CNDP officers and M23 members also told the Group that as of 20 October 2012, M23 had acquired new camouflage uniforms, made of a fabric similar to that of Rwandan Defense Force (RDF) uniforms in the past which closely resembles current RDF uniforms (see annex 2).1 These same sources asserted that the aim of using nearly indistinguishable uniforms was to create confusion when RDF units would eventually reinforce M23 during upcoming operations.

Moreover, at the end of October 2012 the RDF and UPDF deployed additional troops to the DRC to support M23. Three senior Forces armees de la Republique Democratique du Congo (FARDC) officers, four local leaders, and one former RDF officer told the Group that one supplementary RDF battalion 2 reinforced M23 at Bukima and Tshengerero. FARDC senior commanders and military intelligence officers indicated that the aim of the reinforcements was to prepare large scale operations.

Three senior FARDC officers and four local leaders from Rutshuru also informed the Group about renewed deployment of at least two companies of the Ugandan People's Defence Forces (UPDF) in Busanza near the border with Kitagoma. According to FARDC commanders and local authorities, the objective of deploying these Ugandan units was to ensure that M23's territory in Rutshuru, particularly Kiwanja town, was not left unprotected during the imminent offensive on Goma, given the rebels' low troop numbers.

On 1 November 2012, the Expanded Joint Verification Mission (EJVM), composed of military officers from the ICGLR, 3 carried out an investigative mission to Bunagana and Tchengerero villages. The EJVM, which included an RDF officer (see annex 4), obtained several credible accounts of these RDF and UPDF troop reinforcements and photographed soldiers in RDF uniforms (see annex 3). Rwandan officials subsequently refused to endorse the EJVM's findings
and forced the other ICGLR members to weaken the text of the mission report.

When M23 began its offensive on Goma, it benefited from direct RDF support during combat on the frontlines at the village of Kibumba, according to former RDF officers, FARDC officers and local leaders. On 15 November 2012, while Colonel Sultani Makenga 4 commanded M23 units advancing from the rebel-held positions at Rugari village, four companies of the RDF's 305 th RDF brigade crossed the Rwanda - DRC border at Kabuhanga to conduct operations against FARDC positions at Kibumba. FARDC officers and EJVM members who visited the frontline that day heard artillery fire coming from Rwanda. The FARDC managed to repel the initial attack, and killed over 40 rebels and RDF soldiers, many of whom wore RDF uniforms and carried weapons
used by the RDF (see annex 5).

According to former RDF officers and senior FARDC officers, during the follow-up attack on Kibumba, initiated during the night of 17 November 2012, four companies of the 305 th RDF brigade, three companies of other RDF brigades, as well as an RDF Special Forces unit led by Colonel Vincent Gatama reinforced M23. The same sources estimated that, in total, well over 1,000 RDF troops came from Rwanda to assist M23 during these Kibumba operations, in addition to the RDF soldiers that had already been deployed to M23 positions during the weeks prior to the attack. According to local leaders, the RDF transported these troops to the Gasizi hill and Kabuhanga border crossing where they entered into the DRC to target FARDC positions with
support from artillery fire from Rwandan territory (see annex 6).5 The M23 and RDF advance during the night was also facilitated by sophisticated equipment such as night-vision goggles.

According to former RDF commanders, such equipment is usually used by RDF Special Forces. Furthermore, during these attacks, M23 used heavy weaponry including 120 mm mortars, which lhe Group had previously documented in Colonel Makenga's private stocks. Makenga had obtained these mortars from support networks in Rwanda and Uganda prior to his May 2012 desertion from the FARDC (see annex 7). The Group learned through diplomatic sources in the region that the GoR had sought assistance to destroy 120 mm mortars still within its arsenal in August 2012 in anticipation of eventual accusations of Rwandan weapons supplies to the rebels. 6 Illustrating the importance of external supply routes to the rebels, when M23 issued its ultimatum
to the Government of the DRC on 18 November 2012 before further advancing on Goma, its leadership demanded the immediate reopening of the Bunagana border post (see annex . The Government of Uganda had previously closed this border post on 12 November 2012, following the Group's confirmation of its previous laissez-faire policy towards M23 activities in Ugandan territory.

When M23 progressed towards Goma on 19 November 2012, RDF units operated alongside M23 in combat at the airport and close to one of Goma's border posts into Rwanda. There, RDF and FARDC soldiers exchanged heavy fire across the border. At 17:30, RDF troops openly entered into Goma through one of the two official border crossings between Rwanda and the DRC and briefly engaged in combat with the FARDC before retreating two hours later.

On 20 November 2012, M23 defeated the FARDC at the Goma airport and a mixture of M23 and RDF troops clandestinely entered into Goma from the Rwandan town of Gisenyi through small streets situated between the town's two official border crossings. These troops together took control over the entire city, marching through downtown dressed in a combination of RDF and new M23 uniforms (see annex 9). Former RDF officers, DRC government officials, and FARDC officers told the Group that the RDF's 73 rd and 75 th battalions based in Gisenyi supported the M23 during the seizure of Goma, both at the airport and at the border post. These same sources estimated that roughly 500 RDF soldiers reinforced M23 during its takeover of the provincial
capital.

Several senior FARDC commanders and former RDF officers also stated that RDF Western Division commander General Emmanuel Ruvusha and Colonel Makenga jointly led the Goma offensive. These same sources asserted that Ruvusha assumed the overall command of the operations and personally came to the DRC to oversee their execution. Moreover, they told the Group that General Bosco Ntaganda also led M23 troops operating in close proximity to the Rwandan border at Kibumba and in the vicinity of Goma airport while in Kigali, Generals James Kabarebe, Jack Nziza, and Charles Kayonga planned the overall strategy of the attack and gave orders to Ruvusha, Makenga, and Ntaganda.

(Annexe 4. In October 2012, Makenga has been promoted to <> of the Armee Revolutionnaire Congolaise(ARC), M23's armed wing.
S. The main frontline FARDC positions at Kibumba were located at less than 5 km from the Rwandan border.
6. In its request for disarmament assistance, the GoR also included 75 mm canon rounds, which the Group documentedas being part ofM23's arsenal in its Addendum (paragraph 24 & annex 4, SI20l2/348/Addll). The GoR undertook these efforts despite false claims to the Group on 27 July 2012 that it had already destroyed all of its 75 mm canon rounds. The GoR was unable to show the Group any evidence to support such assertions)

countersniper Fri Dec 14 2012, 16:40

its time someone took down the tall thin one and teach his foot soldiers a lesson..he is the one causing all these problems in Congo.we need to show his backers that he can be tamed.
problem is he keeps lashing out at anyone by using the 1994 genocide as cover for all his actions in the eastern Congo region.

Uzi Fri Dec 14 2012, 21:46

ole Nkarei wrote:It is a very lengthy Report but here is the extract that deals exclusively with allegations / findings about Rwanda and Uganda complicity in the M23 and the mess in Eastern DRC. It is almost incontrovertible.

Make you your mind wewe mwenyewe what to believe after reading through - anybody needing clarifications or additional info please post your need, lets chat!

SECURITY COUNClL COMMITTEE ESTABLISHED PURSUANT TO RESOLUTION 1533 (2004) CONCERNING THE DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF THE CONGO

It appears GoU & GoR might not be saints after all. This doesn't look like a copy/paste kind of report but serious allegations with supporting evidence names and all. Instead of fallacious threats maybe the two should answer the specific accusations.

Risasi Sat Dec 15 2012, 09:32

Spartan wrote:There's no possibility of Ug squaring up against any of the forces coming to Kivu. But should things come to that - proxy (through M23) or open hostilities, a force of 20,000, let alone 4,000 stands no chance against Rwanda alone. Remember this is their backyard (and ours too), everybody else will be operating 500-plus miles from their comfort zone…………………………...

Well stated @Spartan maturity wouldn’t allow a duel with the Boers. But my concerns or suppositions is a situation similar to the first Tailban war; soviets’ vs Taliban (natives USA proxy), what makes this conflict interesting is; S.A selling arms to UG which might be used against its boys in the DRC??

Iko maneno hapa

Kobooz Sat Dec 15 2012, 09:55

Ha ha ha ha ha ha! oops, its not so much of a laughing matter after all. But brethren the hypocrisy of the world political system is very very puzzling. We have had discussions with @ON earlier since both of us have treaded our feet in the territory under review. You need to ask yourself as I had asked ON earlier, why is Johnny & Sammy so interested in Tall thin one, what is in the tiny country that would be of interest to them?. Why the massive upgrading of the sammy's embassy in the tiny country? What would you say if your president openly said that DRC had better remain in its current quagmire? What if you had a friend from the said big powers openly telling you that there is really nothing in this tiny country but "our eyes, hands & hearts are in DRC (its wealth)! What if your president openly told you in a leadership meeting that we have enough money to run our country for ten years! Did you also know that 70% of imports into rwanda are destines for DRC? @ON if you have spent time on the hills(1000) in all the periods after these DRC military incursions, what are these galaxy birds usually doing @kanombe airport for a week or so immediately after? Can you imagine the way the world has been 'pleading' with M23 to withdraw from Goma? How do you handle rebels with such kid gloves? and even ask them to move just a few kilometers? Can you imagine if we were pleading with AS to graciously & kindly consider stopping to harass TFG (by then) and to consider just settling 20KM outside moqdishu or chai town? I will not be surprised if the donor funds freeze is a smoke screen and part of the conspiracy! what is the source of capital of the sudden development boom in the tiny country? export of tea & coffee? how much tea? Well you need to know that thin tall one cannot survive without an unstable eastern DRC and there are enough friends & customers willings to assist him keep it that way. The amount of mineral wealth that might have changed hands in that week of M23 rule of Goma "could be enough to sustain 'our country without donor aid' for the next 10 years. May God help Africa

Guest Sat Dec 15 2012, 10:30

@Kabooz - I 'cut my teeth' in the backdrop of the second Congo / African War but I also as a kijana civilian just before the tragic events of 1994 - got out as it gathered steam. Been back and forth in ki-kazi many times since, have a good network of kazi and non-kazi 'friendlies' in those 1000 Hills!

Fully in agreement witcha. The Tall Thin Man has created a Mirage in Kigali, founded on nothing more substantial than hot air. It is not Industrial Capacity nor even national effort that drives the economy of Rwanda. Any more than the drug money-laundering carribean countries. Without DRC in Chaos, Kagame cannot sustain this Mirage for a week. Of course American, French and Belgium Government use him as a conduit-state to continue their century-old rapacious pillaging of the DRC - even my Hero Bill Clinton sits on the Board of several American Conglomerates that are involved in this insidious business, as indeed are the older and younger Bush. Practically every senior American Government official in Defense and State has direct personal to-do with this DRC/Rwanda maneno even if through proxy. And to compete in today and future High-technology Industries with the Emergent BRICS and more specifically the Asian Economies, Europe and America desperately need the rare raw material so abundantly and cheeply available in the DRC - and Kagame has used their greed and need to assauge his countries own needs and greed.

Africa has long realised that to Industrize and economically take off and be competitive, we too need the DRC fully integrated in a stable and viable Regional Block that will trade and interact with other stable and viable Regional Blocks. But it has been clear too that the only way to get this done is if Africa will find the Muscle and Will to wrest the DRC from Western clutches. Negotiations have failed thus far - we have to take it from them by force of arms, or at least show that willingness to use force to do so. It is in this light that I see the entry of SADC into the Eastern DRC, and my consideration that this crisis will only aggravate further and may result in the West pushing for a division of the DRC to guarantee them an area of control and influence.

CRA-M23 withdraws from GOMA as ICGLR ordered simply because it was the RDF and UPDF in GOMA!! Laughing

Btw, has anyone noticed how 'Tutsianised's public face of Rwanda has brazenly become lately? Just take a peek at their newspapers photographs, or better yet, take a weekend in Kigali - a real powerder keg!!

Spartan Sat Dec 15 2012, 10:56

Uzi wrote:It appears GoU & GoR might not be saints after all. This doesn't look like a copy/paste kind of report but serious allegations with supporting evidence names and all. Instead of fallacious threats maybe the two should answer the specific accusations.

Brothers, stop buying this neo-colonial load of crap. What if Uganda really helped the M23 as long as they kept anti-Uganda forces like ADF at bay? Isn't this the stuff that national security interests is made of? Oh wait, we are just small African states. You see, when Qatar, Turkey, France and Britain arm the Free Syrian Army (most of whom share no borders with it) it's ok. But not so for African states. Today it's Uganda but tomorrow it will be another African state whose interests do not matter to westerners (or have we forgotten the initial reaction of the West to OLN)?

Back to the 'evidence'. Just what is in the report that shows Uganda in any way helped the M23? A Congolese businessman buys civilian rain boots which is totally legit and takes them across borders. Were they delivered by representatives of the GoU? Were they handed over to M23? No. Where exactly is the complicity of Uganda in this? Or the deployment of a battalion troops on our border when we sense trouble across. The report insinuates that they were to help M23 but did they?

On the charge that the M23 freely move within Uganda, the M23 political leadership is to Uganda what the LRA political wing was to Kenya in the last two decades - nobody really cared about their movements within Uganda because they posed no threat to us. In short, whatever we are being accused of, everybody else has done before. The UN is just desperate to find fall guys for its failures.

Let me just reiterate these:
1. No solution to the DRC problem is complete without addressing all the negative elements hiding there. Either the international community maintains this head-in-the-sand approach of ignoring them and blaming Rwanda and Uganda or they scrap the failed MONUSCO mission and support African force with the mandate to act against destabilising forces in the East of the DRC.

2. No military solution short of an invasion by 100,000 troops and above will ever change the equation in the East of the DRC - certainly not the 4,000 envisaged by SADC or the 20,000 non-combatant MONUSCO outfit.

3. Rwanda and Uganda have been increasingly democratising, attaining good growth rates, playing positive roles in the region. The international community can choose to manage the DRC conundrum without compromising these or they can choose to make Rwanda and Uganda feel like they are under siege and see what happens to the whole region.

Now the Kenyan, and Tanzanian media and gov'ts, your work is cut out, in my opinion. You either repeat unquestioningly this version of the UN 'Group of Experts' or you take the long view and try to find out what these events portend for East Africa in general. Over to you.

@ole Nkarei, you didn't just say that CRA-M23 withdraws from GOMA as ICGLR ordered simply because it was the UPDF in GOMA? That is annoying, especially coming from people who should know better. Even the UN 'Group of experts' and FARDC could not bring themselves to accuse the UPDF of being in Goma!. Any more repetition of charges like these I will, along with other Ugandans withdraw from this forum so you Kenyans can outdo each other with your skewed superiority complex.

Guest Sat Dec 15 2012, 11:35

Spartan wrote: @ole Nkarei, you didn't just say that CRA-M23 withdraws from GOMA as ICGLR ordered simply because it was the UPDF in GOMA? That is annoying, especially coming from people who should know better. Even the UN 'Group of experts' and FARDC could not bring themselves to accuse the UPDF of being in Goma!. Any more repetition of charges like these I will, along with other Ugandans withdraw from this forum so you Kenyans can outdo each other with your skewed superiority complex.

Fortunately for me, Spartan, I do indeed KNOW BETTER.

I have pored through this UN Report for hours, made every effort to discount, trash or validated it against a host of data both Electronic and Hummint from multiple Sources of high credibility that procedurally falls into my in-tray. That part of the DRC is probably the most survelled part of Black Africa because of the plethora of parties interested in DRC wealth, and you know this is damn well true. It is not a black hole of information, Spartan, like it was during your first and second egress into the DRC. There is factual evidence that validates this Report to minutea, my friend. While the timing of release is clearly suspect, I submit it was not earlier than now expedient to the puppeteers in Western Capitals to share this Intel with the rest of us, before now, but it is now in wide circulation. Your defense though admirable lacks necessary thunder to it, bro.

Of course Uganda and Rwanda have some legitimate concerns about the Eastern DRC - hell I said earlier that we in Kenya have done very much the same all over our Eastern Front for decades!! That the West allowed you chaps in there this long was because it served their purposes too. They do it all over the world. Now it appears they have shifted this 'Purpose'. And it matters little to them that this might upset a carefully contrived balance in the region, nor even that Uganda and Rwanda has created vital-to-this-region microeconomic stability in their Countries - these Western Powers will swallow any Africa Nation without chewing if it serves their purpose.

Manifestion of a complex of superiority here? I have the equal high regard for you and our ugandan bloggers as for everyone else (I am certainly not indisciplined, eh?) and that accusation stung awfully, bro!!

Spartan Sat Dec 15 2012, 12:06

ole Nkarei wrote:Fortunately for me, Spartan, I do indeed KNOW BETTER.

I have pored through this UN Report for hours, made every effort to discount, trash or validated it against a host of data both Electronic and Hummint from multiple Sources of high credibility that procedurally falls into my in-tray. That part of the DRC is probably the most survelled part of Black Africa because of the plethora of parties interested in DRC wealth, and you know this is damn well true. It is not a black hole of information, Spartan, like it was during your first and second egress into the DRC. There is factual evidence that validates this Report to minutea, my friend. While the timing of release is clearly suspect, I submit it was not earlier than now expedient to the puppeteers in Western Capitals to share this Intel with the rest of us, before now, but it is now in wide circulation. Your defense though admirable lacks necessary thunder to it, bro.

Just what do you hope to benefit by accusing UPDF of being in Goma? Drop the claptrap of the report for a moment and just answer that.

Guest Sat Dec 15 2012, 12:37

Spartan wrote:
ole Nkarei wrote:Fortunately for me, Spartan, I do indeed KNOW BETTER.

I have pored through this UN Report for hours, made every effort to discount, trash or validated it against a host of data both Electronic and Hummint from multiple Sources of high credibility that procedurally falls into my in-tray. That part of the DRC is probably the most survelled part of Black Africa because of the plethora of parties interested in DRC wealth, and you know this is damn well true. It is not a black hole of information, Spartan, like it was during your first and second egress into the DRC. There is factual evidence that validates this Report to minutea, my friend. While the timing of release is clearly suspect, I submit it was not earlier than now expedient to the puppeteers in Western Capitals to share this Intel with the rest of us, before now, but it is now in wide circulation. Your defense though admirable lacks necessary thunder to it, bro.

Just what do you hope to benefit by accusing UPDF of being in Goma? Drop the claptrap of the report for a moment and just answer that.

Iam NOT accussing the UPDF of being in GOMA, nor of waging war on the DRC directly and by proxy - Heck, I am stating an easily established fact.

And I have nothing personally to benefit from stating this fact, even less by not stating it.

It is not a ''claptrap' report - just one of the many similarly factual and cross-validating reports on the same matter.

It displeases you that I have so stated, fine! No call for your ill-tempered belligerence.

Spartan Sat Dec 15 2012, 12:59

ole Nkarei wrote:
Spartan wrote:Just what do you hope to benefit by accusing UPDF of being in Goma? Drop the claptrap of the report for a moment and just answer that.

Iam NOT accussing the UPDF of being in GOMA, nor of waging war on the DRC directly and by proxy - Heck, I am stating an easily established fact.

And I have nothing personally to benefit from stating this fact, even less by not stating it.

It is not a ''claptrap' report - just one of the many similarly factual and cross-validating reports on the same matter.

It displeases you that I have so stated, fine! No call for your ill-tempered belligerence.

Looks like the word 'fact' means something different to each of us. But that's fine with me. And it's apparent you didn't like my use of the word 'claptrap' - refering to insincere and pretentious talk to define the whole tone of your last few posts about UPDF, sorry I hurt your feelings but am not walking back that word.

Thing is, there's a tendency for people to take to a moral high horse if they are the not the ones facing challenges especially of a security nature. And that's what this UPDF-drubbing is essentially about. But when the same people are faced with similar or even less challenges, they themselves are found wanting. The problem with the attitude adopted here is that when the west is finished with us, who knows who they take on next.

When I notice my posts are making a combustible situation worse, I take time off. That is what I am doing effective now 12:57hrs Dec 15 2012. Happy New Year guys

Uzi Sat Dec 15 2012, 13:12

Spartan wrote: Any more repetition of charges like these I will, along with other Ugandans withdraw from this forum so you Kenyans can outdo each other with your skewed superiority complex.

This line is becoming common. You shouldn't feel frustrated bcoz other people choose to interpret the issue differently. It aint a Kenyan vs Ug thing. On the same forum Kenyans have been criticizing their own security organs and policies (am yet to see that from Ug) so kindly look at the issue objectively without resorting to blackmail even when others have a diverse opinion.

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